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General Discussion  » WildStar's Gaffney on why the game isn't free-to-play

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88 posts found
  Myrdynn

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/25/07
Posts: 1254

10/08/13 6:42:11 PM#41

they will change their tune, after they hijack you for 60$ box price, charge you for 6 months of subs, and then go f2p.

as a company its truly the best way to go about it.  the game at release will have a lot of hype, good sales, then fall off the cliff, til it goes f2p and actually makes the company some money.

ala RIFT.  Wildstar, really offers nothing either hardcore or special

 

  Bigmamajama

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/18/13
Posts: 206

10/08/13 6:49:05 PM#42
Originally posted by flizzer
And I'll try Wildstar when it goes f2p....

Warez / F2P loved by the same player type.    I'm more of meet ya at the club kind of guy.

  Bigmamajama

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/18/13
Posts: 206

10/08/13 6:51:05 PM#43
Originally posted by Myrdynn

they will change their tune, after they hijack you for 60$ box price, charge you for 6 months of subs, and then go f2p.

as a company its truly the best way to go about it.  the game at release will have a lot of hype, good sales, then fall off the cliff, til it goes f2p and actually makes the company some money.

ala RIFT.  Wildstar, really offers nothing either hardcore or special

 

Ya imagine that a company wanting to get paid for its hard work over fleecing people in a F2P.  Wow, a sound economic model and integrity coming from the same company, good for Wildstar.

  TheCrow2k

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/19/09
Posts: 944

10/08/13 7:01:35 PM#44
Its just more of the same old same old with new packaging & window dressing. I will be genuinely surprised if it does not go subscription less within 12 Months & this is coming from a guy who was subbed to Fallen Earth from launch.
  Myrdynn

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/25/07
Posts: 1254

10/08/13 7:23:42 PM#45
Originally posted by Bigmamajama
Originally posted by Myrdynn

they will change their tune, after they hijack you for 60$ box price, charge you for 6 months of subs, and then go f2p.

as a company its truly the best way to go about it.  the game at release will have a lot of hype, good sales, then fall off the cliff, til it goes f2p and actually makes the company some money.

ala RIFT.  Wildstar, really offers nothing either hardcore or special

 

Ya imagine that a company wanting to get paid for its hard work over fleecing people in a F2P.  Wow, a sound economic model and integrity coming from the same company, good for Wildstar.

huh, they arent using integrity, the exact opposite, look at Rift, TERA, SWtor, TSW,  the last 4 big title games to come out, all f2p after about a yr or less, after charging for box prices, it seriously is the new cash grab.  I guarantee that Carbine has a f2p model in preperation for about 6 months out, when the subs are under 100k

also, havent really seen any so called "fleecing" in many games of late, the exact opposite is true, RIFT, TERA, and TSW all have great models, and dont "fleece" their player base

 

  Xiaoki

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/07/04
Posts: 2370

10/08/13 7:52:40 PM#46


Originally posted by Myrdynn

Originally posted by Bigmamajama

Originally posted by Myrdynn they will change their tune, after they hijack you for 60$ box price, charge you for 6 months of subs, and then go f2p. as a company its truly the best way to go about it.  the game at release will have a lot of hype, good sales, then fall off the cliff, til it goes f2p and actually makes the company some money. ala RIFT.  Wildstar, really offers nothing either hardcore or special  
Ya imagine that a company wanting to get paid for its hard work over fleecing people in a F2P.  Wow, a sound economic model and integrity coming from the same company, good for Wildstar.
huh, they arent using integrity, the exact opposite, look at Rift, TERA, SWtor, TSW,  the last 4 big title games to come out, all f2p after about a yr or less, after charging for box prices, it seriously is the new cash grab.  I guarantee that Carbine has a f2p model in preperation for about 6 months out, when the subs are under 100k

also, havent really seen any so called "fleecing" in many games of late, the exact opposite is true, RIFT, TERA, and TSW all have great models, and dont "fleece" their player base

 



The biggest problems those games had was trying to charge $60 for horrible games.


Well, Rift was Ok(very boring though) but Tera, TOR and TSW were bad and had no hope of ever sustaining a subscription model because of poor quality.


But, hey, bad games dont matter to cheap players when they are free right?

  Zapzap

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/31/13
Posts: 197

10/08/13 8:37:21 PM#47
Originally posted by Myrdynn
Originally posted by Bigmamajama
Originally posted by Myrdynn

they will change their tune, after they hijack you for 60$ box price, charge you for 6 months of subs, and then go f2p.

as a company its truly the best way to go about it.  the game at release will have a lot of hype, good sales, then fall off the cliff, til it goes f2p and actually makes the company some money.

ala RIFT.  Wildstar, really offers nothing either hardcore or special

 

Ya imagine that a company wanting to get paid for its hard work over fleecing people in a F2P.  Wow, a sound economic model and integrity coming from the same company, good for Wildstar.

huh, they arent using integrity, the exact opposite, look at Rift, TERA, SWtor, TSW,  the last 4 big title games to come out, all f2p after about a yr or less, after charging for box prices, it seriously is the new cash grab.  I guarantee that Carbine has a f2p model in preperation for about 6 months out, when the subs are under 100k

also, havent really seen any so called "fleecing" in many games of late, the exact opposite is true, RIFT, TERA, and TSW all have great models, and dont "fleece" their player base

 

Rift did not go F2P until after 2 years and the F2P killed the game.  Once it went F2P any remaining players left.

  Daessar

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/20/13
Posts: 110

10/08/13 11:06:04 PM#48

"the last 4 big title games to come out, all f2p after about a yr or less, after charging for box prices, it seriously is the new cash grab."

 

Which of those 4 games had gated hardcore raiding with exclusive rewards, ELO rated Pvp with 40man battles and exclusive Pvp gear/rewards, World bosses both quest level and raid level, challenging leveling content that includes hardcore dungeons on par with Burning Crusade.

No, all 4 of those games had none of that, they all had the same easy mode content that players snoozed through, grabbed their end game gear off the shelf and quit playing, which is exactly what F2P games also have, done with the entire game in 2-3 weeks, have all the gear, everyone else has all the gear, my alts have everything, why am I playing past 1 month then.

Please continue to be jealous of what Wildstar is offering, and please PLEASE have the balls to put your money where your mouth is and go play the other easy games.

  Kayo45

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/01/13
Posts: 271

10/09/13 4:11:44 PM#49
Very good article about time a dev said it. MMOs go F2P because of the execs want more. They see WoW and want WoW numbers. Then when they see its not going to happen the cut their loose ends and go f2p maintenance mode, cutting development costs and focusing on cash shop items. Thats all it is.

I highly doubt a single one of these p2p MMOs that have converted, needed to because they were losing money. MMOs have the luxury of being able to cut back on resources down to a single server if need be and a handful of developers. EA didnt NEED to convert SWTOR to f2p, they chose to. They still had close to 500k players when they decided to convert in 6 months, yet Trion kept going along to 2+ years with less than half that. SE still has FFXI as p2p and its got to be much lower at this time. Its a CHOICE influenced by greed, not failure.

That said, Wildstar has NCShit paying their bills ... not a good sign. I fully suspect this to be a bait and switch scam to get the million+ box sales before the suits at NCShit flip the switch saying "its better for everyone."
  Myrdynn

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/25/07
Posts: 1254

10/09/13 7:43:05 PM#50
Originally posted by Zapzap
Originally posted by Myrdynn
Originally posted by Bigmamajama
Originally posted by Myrdynn

they will change their tune, after they hijack you for 60$ box price, charge you for 6 months of subs, and then go f2p.

as a company its truly the best way to go about it.  the game at release will have a lot of hype, good sales, then fall off the cliff, til it goes f2p and actually makes the company some money.

ala RIFT.  Wildstar, really offers nothing either hardcore or special

 

Ya imagine that a company wanting to get paid for its hard work over fleecing people in a F2P.  Wow, a sound economic model and integrity coming from the same company, good for Wildstar.

huh, they arent using integrity, the exact opposite, look at Rift, TERA, SWtor, TSW,  the last 4 big title games to come out, all f2p after about a yr or less, after charging for box prices, it seriously is the new cash grab.  I guarantee that Carbine has a f2p model in preperation for about 6 months out, when the subs are under 100k

also, havent really seen any so called "fleecing" in many games of late, the exact opposite is true, RIFT, TERA, and TSW all have great models, and dont "fleece" their player base

 

Rift did not go F2P until after 2 years and the F2P killed the game.  Once it went F2P any remaining players left.

it did?  Rift numbers are way higher and they are making more money

  Myrdynn

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/25/07
Posts: 1254

10/09/13 7:44:47 PM#51
Originally posted by Daessar

"the last 4 big title games to come out, all f2p after about a yr or less, after charging for box prices, it seriously is the new cash grab."

 

Which of those 4 games had gated hardcore raiding with exclusive rewards, ELO rated Pvp with 40man battles and exclusive Pvp gear/rewards, World bosses both quest level and raid level, challenging leveling content that includes hardcore dungeons on par with Burning Crusade.

No, all 4 of those games had none of that, they all had the same easy mode content that players snoozed through, grabbed their end game gear off the shelf and quit playing, which is exactly what F2P games also have, done with the entire game in 2-3 weeks, have all the gear, everyone else has all the gear, my alts have everything, why am I playing past 1 month then.

Please continue to be jealous of what Wildstar is offering, and please PLEASE have the balls to put your money where your mouth is and go play the other easy games.

RIFT has all of the above mentioned.

I am not jealous of Wildstar one bit, I have played quite a bit of the beta, and there is nothing new I have seen.  Its the same game in a different skin.

 

  Theocritus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/15/08
Posts: 3541

10/09/13 7:51:46 PM#52
Originally posted by Wighty

What a great read!

 

I sincerely hope this F2P bubble is over and we can have a sub renaissance! keeps the 70-80% leechers to put up or shut up!

 

http://www.pcgamesn.com/wildstar-producer-exaggerated-death-subscription-mmos-free-plays-not-magic-bullet

 Yes lets hope that 612 MMOs all go to a p2p format! Wouldnt that be great! Every single game could go under! They'll get away with it for awhile, but when people are bored after a month and they're asking for more money we'll see what happens....All these companies think their game is so great and that we are all just willing to lay heaps of money on them for it....Even WoW isnt worth a sub and Im sure its better than this one will be.

  liker12

Novice Member

Joined: 10/09/13
Posts: 4

10/09/13 9:18:46 PM#53
looks like everquestnest '-'
  Zapzap

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/31/13
Posts: 197

10/09/13 9:27:22 PM#54
Originally posted by Theocritus
Originally posted by Wighty

What a great read!

 

I sincerely hope this F2P bubble is over and we can have a sub renaissance! keeps the 70-80% leechers to put up or shut up!

 

http://www.pcgamesn.com/wildstar-producer-exaggerated-death-subscription-mmos-free-plays-not-magic-bullet

 Yes lets hope that 612 MMOs all go to a p2p format! Wouldnt that be great! Every single game could go under! They'll get away with it for awhile, but when people are bored after a month and they're asking for more money we'll see what happens....All these companies think their game is so great and that we are all just willing to lay heaps of money on them for it....Even WoW isnt worth a sub and Im sure its better than this one will be.

What F2P bubble was that?  I can only recall one AAA MMO ever releasing that was not P2P and that was GW2.  And GW2 was not made for endgame or long term play. You get what you pay for.  P2P games may switch to F2P after 2 years like Rift but if you want to play a quality MMO at release you have no option and that is P2P.  If you want to play a low budget game for a short period of time before becoming bored and moving on to the next low budget game than F2P is the way to go.  Just guard your wallet.

  Zapzap

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/31/13
Posts: 197

10/09/13 9:36:55 PM#55
Originally posted by Myrdynn
Originally posted by Zapzap
Originally posted by Myrdynn
Originally posted by Bigmamajama
Originally posted by Myrdynn

they will change their tune, after they hijack you for 60$ box price, charge you for 6 months of subs, and then go f2p.

as a company its truly the best way to go about it.  the game at release will have a lot of hype, good sales, then fall off the cliff, til it goes f2p and actually makes the company some money.

ala RIFT.  Wildstar, really offers nothing either hardcore or special

 

Ya imagine that a company wanting to get paid for its hard work over fleecing people in a F2P.  Wow, a sound economic model and integrity coming from the same company, good for Wildstar.

huh, they arent using integrity, the exact opposite, look at Rift, TERA, SWtor, TSW,  the last 4 big title games to come out, all f2p after about a yr or less, after charging for box prices, it seriously is the new cash grab.  I guarantee that Carbine has a f2p model in preperation for about 6 months out, when the subs are under 100k

also, havent really seen any so called "fleecing" in many games of late, the exact opposite is true, RIFT, TERA, and TSW all have great models, and dont "fleece" their player base

 

Rift did not go F2P until after 2 years and the F2P killed the game.  Once it went F2P any remaining players left.

it did?  Rift numbers are way higher and they are making more money

Sorry I  meant serious players and veteran players.  Before the conversion Rift had about 15 serious world wide raid guilds left.  Now they are down to 3 serious raid guilds left (Trinity, Addiction and Legit).  The veterans have left and moved on with the game going easy mode and F2P.  Although this has been a process that has been happening since the summer of 2012 (when Voodoo started the snowball was the 1st big guild to leave) when Trion started making the raid content much easier for all raid dungeons after HK.

  Alverant

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/12/07
Posts: 258

10/09/13 9:46:15 PM#56

I agree with the idea of subscriptions if done right. I see it like a magazine subscription. Every month (or thereabouts) you get new content. Plus you get access to the server and code maintenance. That stuff ain't free.

Right now what is starting to push me away from WS is the community on their message boards. Seems like the loudest posters are big jerks and I'm not seeing the community I want to see in a game.

  Myrdynn

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/25/07
Posts: 1254

10/09/13 9:53:17 PM#57
Originally posted by Zapzap
Originally posted by Myrdynn
Originally posted by Zapzap
Originally posted by Myrdynn
Originally posted by Bigmamajama
Originally posted by Myrdynn

they will change their tune, after they hijack you for 60$ box price, charge you for 6 months of subs, and then go f2p.

as a company its truly the best way to go about it.  the game at release will have a lot of hype, good sales, then fall off the cliff, til it goes f2p and actually makes the company some money.

ala RIFT.  Wildstar, really offers nothing either hardcore or special

 

Ya imagine that a company wanting to get paid for its hard work over fleecing people in a F2P.  Wow, a sound economic model and integrity coming from the same company, good for Wildstar.

huh, they arent using integrity, the exact opposite, look at Rift, TERA, SWtor, TSW,  the last 4 big title games to come out, all f2p after about a yr or less, after charging for box prices, it seriously is the new cash grab.  I guarantee that Carbine has a f2p model in preperation for about 6 months out, when the subs are under 100k

also, havent really seen any so called "fleecing" in many games of late, the exact opposite is true, RIFT, TERA, and TSW all have great models, and dont "fleece" their player base

 

Rift did not go F2P until after 2 years and the F2P killed the game.  Once it went F2P any remaining players left.

it did?  Rift numbers are way higher and they are making more money

Sorry I  meant serious players and veteran players.  Before the conversion Rift had about 15 serious world wide raid guilds left.  Now they are down to 3 serious raid guilds left (Trinity, Addiction and Legit).  The veterans have left and moved on with the game going easy mode and F2P.  Although this has been a process that has been happening since the summer of 2012 (when Voodoo started the snowball was the 1st big guild to leave) when Trion started making the raid content much easier for all raid dungeons after HK.

see thats the thing though, I quit after HK, I was in a top 5 worldwide raiding guild, it was actually the f2p conversion that made me comeback to the game, and I know alot of others in the same boat.  We play casually and enjoy it alot more than when it was a full time raiding job.  The players were leaving prior to f2p, so the 2 dont really go hand-in-hand.  The thing is all of these "hardcore" raiders left, but where did they go? There is literally nothing out there

  Zapzap

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/31/13
Posts: 197

10/09/13 9:53:57 PM#58
Originally posted by Alverant

I agree with the idea of subscriptions if done right. I see it like a magazine subscription. Every month (or thereabouts) you get new content. Plus you get access to the server and code maintenance. That stuff ain't free.

Right now what is starting to push me away from WS is the community on their message boards. Seems like the loudest posters are big jerks and I'm not seeing the community I want to see in a game.

Have you been to Wildstar Central.  It is the biggest WS community forum.  The community here is wonderful.  People treat each other nicely.  It is by far the best pre-release community I have seen since hmm I was going to say vanguard but might be a nicer and better community than Vanguard's.  But both were nice and the most well behaved I have seen.  the only other pre-release close to those two was Rift.  Not coincidentally the same CM who ran the Vanguard pre-community also ran the Rift community. Cindy Bowen. 

  Myrdynn

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/25/07
Posts: 1254

10/09/13 10:00:37 PM#59

just want to add, I truly hope Wildstar is successful, its not for me right now, I just seriously have my doubts it succeeds more than a yr without a f2p conversion

 

  Zapzap

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/31/13
Posts: 197

10/09/13 10:01:51 PM#60
Originally posted by Myrdynn
Originally posted by Zapzap
Originally posted by Myrdynn
Originally posted by Zapzap
Originally posted by Myrdynn
Originally posted by Bigmamajama
Originally posted by Myrdynn

they will change their tune, after they hijack you for 60$ box price, charge you for 6 months of subs, and then go f2p.

as a company its truly the best way to go about it.  the game at release will have a lot of hype, good sales, then fall off the cliff, til it goes f2p and actually makes the company some money.

ala RIFT.  Wildstar, really offers nothing either hardcore or special

 

Ya imagine that a company wanting to get paid for its hard work over fleecing people in a F2P.  Wow, a sound economic model and integrity coming from the same company, good for Wildstar.

huh, they arent using integrity, the exact opposite, look at Rift, TERA, SWtor, TSW,  the last 4 big title games to come out, all f2p after about a yr or less, after charging for box prices, it seriously is the new cash grab.  I guarantee that Carbine has a f2p model in preperation for about 6 months out, when the subs are under 100k

also, havent really seen any so called "fleecing" in many games of late, the exact opposite is true, RIFT, TERA, and TSW all have great models, and dont "fleece" their player base

 

Rift did not go F2P until after 2 years and the F2P killed the game.  Once it went F2P any remaining players left.

it did?  Rift numbers are way higher and they are making more money

Sorry I  meant serious players and veteran players.  Before the conversion Rift had about 15 serious world wide raid guilds left.  Now they are down to 3 serious raid guilds left (Trinity, Addiction and Legit).  The veterans have left and moved on with the game going easy mode and F2P.  Although this has been a process that has been happening since the summer of 2012 (when Voodoo started the snowball was the 1st big guild to leave) when Trion started making the raid content much easier for all raid dungeons after HK.

see thats the thing though, I quit after HK, I was in a top 5 worldwide raiding guild, it was actually the f2p conversion that made me comeback to the game, and I know alot of others in the same boat.  We play casually and enjoy it alot more than when it was a full time raiding job.  The players were leaving prior to f2p, so the 2 dont really go hand-in-hand.  The thing is all of these "hardcore" raiders left, but where did they go? There is literally nothing out there

I agree about nothing be out there and feel your pain. There are a lot of people in hibernation right now.  Many people I know are playing FF14, many are still playing Rift either in the 3 serious guilds left or casually.  But all seem to be waiting for the next big raiding game.  Wildstar seems to be the main hope there.  But I know many people that hate the graphics and will not consider the game.  But many of the big guilds like Voodoo are focusing and recruiting for Wildstar.  I know a number of people who have faith in EQNext.  EQNext certainly has the hype machine and it may have raiding.  But its focus seems so casual will it actually have anything fro competitive guilds or will be it a F2P short term cash grab with no long term play?  If Wildstar and EQNext fail raiders then there is nothing. It is a very bad time to be a raider or hardcore player.

 

In regards to your post above about doubts about WS succeeding longer than a year or two before going to F2P.  I share the same doubts.  I do not believe WS will be able to last 2+ years P2P like Rift did.  But that's ok they can make money at release and they can switch the model into a hybrid.  Sub for raiders F2p for more casual players.  The trick for WS is to keep to their vision.  It is the only game being made for competitive raiders and it needs to be hard.  Yes they can make 20 man for casual guilds.  But the 40 man needs to challenge the top guilds and they need to keep the top guilds or there will be that trickle down with competitive guilds all leaving.  Once a game is perceived to be easy it effects everyone.  when guidls like Voodoo leave it has an effect on lots of other guidls.  Gaffney has talked about this and acknowledged he understands that keeping top guilds and top players happy keeps lots of other players from leaving.

I don't mind if they go F2P a year or 2 down the road.  Just keep the sub for raiders and keep the raiding hard.  raiders have nowhere else to go.  We need WS to be our home.

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