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EverQuest Next

EverQuest Next 

General Discussion  » RACE nothing more than cosmetic

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154 posts found
  Comaf

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/13/10
Posts: 1125

I want an mmorpg where pvp matters, my enemies are not my race or class, and community matters.

9/22/13 11:13:51 AM#61
Originally posted by Kyllien
Originally posted by Comaf
Originally posted by Latronus
 
OP
First Responder
Me
 
Originally posted by thinlizzy

So, given the devs have said they dont want any choice a player makes when making a character to limit them from being effective in any role, we must conclude that RACE will be no more than a cosmetic choice.

Deal in absolutes much?

No factions means no immersion, no believability, no competition between fantasy cultures hence nothing of political importance going on to make this game feel alive.  Watch Lord of the Rings much?  Imagine this lackluster variation on fantasy being applied to that story.  The Hobbits would pvp each other in the Frontier, and Elvish wouldn't exist, Legolas wouldn't have ridiculous dexterity, and Gimli would be college educated.  It would be nonsense.

No racial factions

Why can't they?  Factions can be earned, both god and bad.

Real factions, not, "Hey I'm 10 and don't want to be 'stuck' learning how to increase my social skills to work with my realm.  I want to bounce and hop and jump between any group of people as I see fit cause you know, I'm just a kid!"

No racial limitations

Now, why should every single individual in a specific race be good or bad, not be able to wear plate or swing a two-handed sword? 

Why should a navy seal be good at underwater demolitions, or the president of the United States be a good public speaker?  Ever see what happens when our president is god-awful at speaking? (W. Bush anyone?).  Okay, so that's not fantasy.  Without variation, movies like Star Wars and the Lord of the RIngs would be so damned bland that no one would have cared about the characters.  This is a pattern we often see in mmorpgs today where people play and quit due to lack of interest.  This birthed the F2P concept, because the theory was that a crap game could still make profit out of the 1 out of 100 players that actually used the cash shop.

No racial variation (that impacts on game play)

Having this in a game means that players will be boxed into making a specific race for a specific build or the elite won't accept you because you must have been stupid to pick a human to be a ranger because you get 10 additional Agility points at max level...

Why have race then?  What is the point of the RPG in mmo?  Why not just have this be Gauntlet Online (Elf needs food!)...why even play an mmorpg for that matter?  Isn't there something on PS3 that might offer more than this?  Racial gameplay is huge.  Ask any Olympic long distance runner what they think of Zaire or Kenya.  Again, this watering down to appease the masses so they don't cry over having to think too much...is disgusting. 

No racial advantage

Why couldn't they do this?  EQ2 has them and they aren't game breaking at all. 

In short race is about as relevant as choosing the color of your underpants.

I don't know about you, but I don't spend any time at all picking my underpants color, I just grab the pair on top. 

See above for why variation and differences matter.

For me this is a big disappointment.

While I believe you have a right to enjoy games with the features you prefer, this may not be the game for you, but then again, if you wait and follow the game things may change.  You are jumping to conclusions here and assuming much as far as I know.

 Here's where I will agree.  This is NOT the game for the OP.  This game is meant to cater to a player base that has zero interest in variation and character difference.  There's no roleplay here, no immersion.  This is just another video game where lots of folks can log in.  In a year, I doubt anyone will even care this game ever came out.

 

 

 

How does allowing every player the chance to learn and earn every class equal no racial differences?  Factions will play a huge role in the game so much so in fact that people that chose to do evil will not be able to become a Paladin.  This game will be all about choice. 

It is entirely possible that choosing to play an Ogre may mean that you can't learn any skills from the Elves.  Instead learn your skills from someone else.

Had that still been true than I would have been playing it.

  Comaf

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/13/10
Posts: 1125

I want an mmorpg where pvp matters, my enemies are not my race or class, and community matters.

9/22/13 11:15:14 AM#62
Originally posted by Nephaerius
Originally posted by thinlizzy

So, given the devs have said they dont want any choice a player makes when making a character to limit them from being effective in any role, we must conclude that RACE will be no more than a cosmetic choice.

No racial factions

No racial limitations

No racial variation (that impacts on game play)

No racial advantage

In short race is about as relevant as choosing the color of your underpants.

 

For me this is a big disappointment.

For me it doesn't make any difference at all.

And that's exactly what the developers are hoping for.  ^^

  Dihoru

Elite Member

Joined: 1/11/06
Posts: 2621

9/22/13 12:07:32 PM#63
Originally posted by thinlizzy
Originally posted by Mr.Kujo
 

I like the example "I want to care that slaying every innocent from the starting zone to the lair of generic bad X means I cannot be a paladin".

You see, this is something, that player CHOOSES to do, and it has IMPACT, like you said yourself. This is related directly to the actions player made in game. Giving racial abilities and downsides means that you get some limitations at start, because you picked a race with a background, that doesn't allow you to become something you want to. Something happened in the past in lore, you had no influence on. See the difference? People don't like restrictions at the beginning of the game. It is not that they don't want to make decisions that have impact at all.

There are plenty of ways to force players to make tough decisions, and change their character depending on what they choose. I just personally think that picking race at the begining shouldn't be one of those choices, that is all.

 

SO far there is NO indication they will make your actions in game effect your ability to be any class or mix any classes.

Intact its quite the opposite.

Every time they talk about these subjects they make it clearer and clearer that choices of ALL kinds will have NO impact on class availability.

 

So you will be able to play that Ogre elven-archer paladin mix whilst laying waste to the local orphanage.

Actually I think it was mentioned in the past that actions have consequences in denying you progression within classes (so going ape shit on a village that isn't 100% filled with rapists and child molestors will pretty much exclude you from paladin-hood without some sort of penance). I may be reading much more into their mention of it of course but that's what it sounded like (the example I think it was was linked to a farmer vs a band of pillaging orcs, help the farmer you may unlock a new class because the guy is retired mage or paladin or something, help the orcs and you just get material rewards, choices basically but I'd take this with a grain of salt though as they also said that these sort of events would be unique to the player it is happening to).

  Aldous.Huxley

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/04/13
Posts: 443

9/22/13 12:10:31 PM#64
I heard that combat will be mostly cosmetic as well.
  Burdoc101

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/29/12
Posts: 268

9/22/13 1:10:31 PM#65
Originally posted by thinlizzy

So, given the devs have said they dont want any choice a player makes when making a character to limit them from being effective in any role, we must conclude that RACE will be no more than a cosmetic choice.

No racial factions

No racial limitations

No racial variation (that impacts on game play)

No racial advantage

In short race is about as relevant as choosing the color of your underpants.

 

For me this is a big disappointment.

It it disappointing that this is happening with EQN. I would say it is a good guess to assume that races won't effect much more of the game, besides the Shissar or Ring of Scale being KOS with players.

The lore within the game so far is that the races are united under the Combine. Even the Iksar who freed the combine from oppression have split reactions to the races, so maybe we can see two different Iksar themed factions. One KOS to all non-iksar races and One friendly to the Combine.

Character development will be the focus of the game to change how your character is reacted within the game to npcs and possibly players. Let's hope classes and character development replace the racial need for roles.

  Rydeson

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/05/07
Posts: 3132

9/22/13 2:26:57 PM#66
Originally posted by Aldous.Huxley
I heard that combat will be mostly cosmetic as well.

Exactly..  So many of the skills will be cosmetic differences only.. Reminds me of pasta.. It can come in different shapes and sizes, but in the end it is still ONLY pasta.. lol   For me no game has offered more variety in skills then EQ... Shame we simplified RPG down to silly mode.. 

  Gardavsshade

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/27/11
Posts: 615

9/22/13 2:33:41 PM#67

Race nothing more than cosmetic?

I... um.... uh.....

I can not comment, either Yea or Nay, for FEAR of the Internet Wrath of SOE.

That's what it has come to.


Nothing to see here... just another MMO Ghost....

  Kyllien

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/13
Posts: 315

9/22/13 3:05:39 PM#68
I say then let's blame all this on the PvP'ers.  They are the ones that can't stand a little uniqueness between the classes, races, skills, what name you.  As soon as one Race has an advantage the PvP'ers are up in arms demanding that the race be nerfed.  As soon as one class has an advantage the PvP'ers demand the class be nerfed.  As soon as one skill has an advantage the PvP'ers are all demanding that the skill be nerfed.
  xxtriadxx

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/04/10
Posts: 155

9/22/13 3:13:11 PM#69

I'm sure there will be some form of racial's, factions, and racial npc reactions etc. All of which you can overcome with items faction etc.

Any race any class is good. That any race can be any class does not restrict racism which is paramount to have in any fantasy setting. 

 

you're blowing it way out of proportion.

  Fangrim

Novice Member

Joined: 1/07/12
Posts: 469

9/22/13 3:20:33 PM#70

To me the whole game is cosmetic,aimed at the kind of player that doesn't actually like MMORPG games.

Kind of same with the new wave of horror movies,they aren't actually scary and instead are like this "quiet quiet quiet BANG! " making me jump is not horror,making a casual cartoon game where people run around side by side is not an MMORPG.

 

And before some smart arse pipes in and says something like " oh you have inside information because no one knows game play yet?" I simply don't need it,I have seen all i need to to know already.

  Sithos

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/25/04
Posts: 318

9/22/13 3:25:15 PM#71

Quite a stretch of the imagination that the OP is using,when in fact 55% of respondents on the actual EQN website state they want some form of restriction and only 40% want FFA classes. With the remainder undecided. Posts like this,based on assumptions do little to help a game. Unsure if the OP's intent was to throw a wrench so to speak or not,but throwing out near baseless statements as they did lends little credibility to any further arguments they put forth.

 

Edited to fix spelling

  xAPOCx

Elite Member

Joined: 10/25/12
Posts: 812

9/22/13 3:44:01 PM#72
Originally posted by Aldous.Huxley
I heard that combat will be mostly cosmetic as well.


  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 2903

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

9/22/13 3:45:32 PM#73


Originally posted by Stiler
Race factions has nothing to do with this, they can still have them and have already mentioned factions will play a part in EQN...

Also the reason EQ was popular? Umm, I don't recall ANYONE ever in the my entire time playing EQ saying "Oh I like and enjoy this game because of race restrictions."



Then let me be the first you have seen say this, "I LIKE EQ because of the race restrictions."

Why you ask?
1) Races were different and meant something. Some races were actually better at some things than others.
2) Replayability (from an alt-oholic viewpoint).
3) Gave players something extra to do if they wanted, Racial faction changes.
4) Class restrictions based on race. Again, replayability.
5) Challenging gameplay. Take a race not suited to a class and try to play that combination well, overcoming those inadequacies.

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 6546

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

9/22/13 4:30:02 PM#74

Yes most games are going this way,i don't like it,it is yet another facet that destroys the whole genre which is ROLE PLAYING.

A really well done game gives it races a distinct culture and surrounding and display them in a certain mannerism.They act differently and should have different features and abilities.

To say i don';t want my appearance to change when playing a different role is like saying you want Superman to look like Spiderman or the Hulk to look like Catwomen,it is not something we should see in rpg's.You are role playing a particular idea be it a hobbit that makes a good thief or a Galka that makes a good Paladin.For example in FFXI it gave a distinct quality to  a Tarutaru playing as Paladin.Sure he had a lot less hp's but he had a ton more MP to control hate with healing and constant spell casting such as FLash.

Taking away those cultural/race difference just moves closer to a one dimensional game where everyone is the same,all because you want to appear different ,even though 90% of your body is covered in gear,makes no sense.I always hear peopele complaining they want to be different,well having a different hair color show is a far cry from being different racially.

If done right you can still design a game to be efficient either way,FFXI did it and it had very distinct differences in race.It keeps characters unique and allows for a different approach to how you play.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Napolianboo#p/u/15/rCYLLQCNc1w
Samoan Diamond

  Dihoru

Elite Member

Joined: 1/11/06
Posts: 2621

9/22/13 4:45:24 PM#75
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

 


Originally posted by Stiler
Race factions has nothing to do with this, they can still have them and have already mentioned factions will play a part in EQN...

 

Also the reason EQ was popular? Umm, I don't recall ANYONE ever in the my entire time playing EQ saying "Oh I like and enjoy this game because of race restrictions."



Then let me be the first you have seen say this, "I LIKE EQ because of the race restrictions."

 

Why you ask?
1) Races were different and meant something. Some races were actually better at some things than others. - Who's to say they won't be and still have the possibility of using all the classes with different twists? (cosmetic or even gameplay twists)
2) Replayability (from an alt-oholic viewpoint). - I personally play most MMOs due to a cadre of friends, be them old from other games or RL or new made within the game, having to do the same content over and over again just to satisfy someone else's notion of replayability when my own involves the word fun somewhere in there besdies grind isn't what I'd find appealing.
3) Gave players something extra to do if they wanted, Racial faction changes. - Racial factions could still be in in the traditional sense, no point in assuming either way.
4) Class restrictions based on race. Again, replayability. - In a sandbox it is called lazy design, in a themepark it is called replayability.
5) Challenging gameplay. Take a race not suited to a class and try to play that combination well, overcoming those inadequacies.
- See my comment to your point 1) .

 

  thinlizzy

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/04/13
Posts: 69

 
OP  9/22/13 8:53:43 PM#76
Originally posted by Sithos

Quite a stretch of the imagination that the OP is using,when in fact 55% of respondents on the actual EQN website state they want some form of restriction and only 40% want FFA classes. With the remainder undecided. Posts like this,based on assumptions do little to help a game. Unsure if the OP's intent was to throw a wrench so to speak or not,but throwing out near baseless statements as they did lends little credibility to any further arguments they put forth.

 

Edited to fix spelling

No stretch at all.

I suggest you watch the round-table on class/race restrictions where they clearly state they are walking away from anything that will prevent a players starting choices from impacting on his game play despite the majority voting form some form of racial impact on classes.

 

they started here...

"Jeff: While, interestingly enough, I think philosophically we were very much in line with the votes the players were pretty much putting forward, "

 

but ended up here...

 "Jeff: we realized we wanted to create a situation where our players were never forced to make a decision they would later regret based on knowledge they didn't have at that stage in their careers"

 

"Jeff: It could later on restrict your faction choices and then you would find out late in the game after you created that character and leveled him up that you've backed yourself into a corner and we'd effectively, as a development team, allowed you to create a character that you didn't feel was viable."

 

Take from this what you want.

For me this all = no consequences for your choices

Because they dont want your choices to impact on your later game play.

 

Races in EQN are at this time going to be nothing more than window dressing.

One more of the core ideas in High fantasy is being thrown out the window.

 

  Fangrim

Novice Member

Joined: 1/07/12
Posts: 469

9/22/13 9:13:10 PM#77
Originally posted by thinlizzy
Originally posted by Sithos

Quite a stretch of the imagination that the OP is using,when in fact 55% of respondents on the actual EQN website state they want some form of restriction and only 40% want FFA classes. With the remainder undecided. Posts like this,based on assumptions do little to help a game. Unsure if the OP's intent was to throw a wrench so to speak or not,but throwing out near baseless statements as they did lends little credibility to any further arguments they put forth.

 

Edited to fix spelling

No stretch at all.

I suggest you watch the round-table on class/race restrictions where they clearly state they are walking away from anything that will prevent a players starting choices from impacting on his game play despite the majority voting form some form of racial impact on classes.

 

they started here...

"Jeff: While, interestingly enough, I think philosophically we were very much in line with the votes the players were pretty much putting forward, "

 

but ended up here...

 "Jeff: we realized we wanted to create a situation where our players were never forced to make a decision they would later regret based on knowledge they didn't have at that stage in their careers"

 

"Jeff: It could later on restrict your faction choices and then you would find out late in the game after you created that character and leveled him up that you've backed yourself into a corner and we'd effectively, as a development team, allowed you to create a character that you didn't feel was viable."

 

Take from this what you want.

For me this all = no consequences for your choices

Because they dont want your choices to impact on your later game play.

 

Races in EQN are at this time going to be nothing more than window dressing.

One more of the core ideas in High fantasy is being thrown out the window

I agree with you but this game will be so ultra casual you could level another toon quickly anyway,and as they say now no matter what you do it doesn't matter :)

This game will be the casuals wet dream,even more than GW2. That dream will probably last until the next MMORPG comes out because these kind of players just jump ship constantly. I don't totally blaim them because the devs are making throw away games to cater to these bottom feeders.

It is time to just face the facts,there will never in our lifetimes be a challenging MMORPG that makes you want to stay in it for years made.

  quseio

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/18/07
Posts: 220

9/22/13 9:26:39 PM#78
Originally posted by NightBandit

The reason EQI was so popular was because of the locked race types and for me I feel that's the thing which could let EQN down, however until we know more then there is no point with the dramatic statements because we no nothing in full yet and I am of the opinion that SOE have not got any where near a game otherwise we would be hearing more information weekly and that's not happening.

I feel the round table thing is there way of getting what we want to play and guiding them and that's why we seen very little of the game thus far. I guess from what we have seen there has to be some kind of game but they holding it to close to their chest and we will have to wait and see. I for one am no fan of hype or speculation so until we see more then I'll just hold judgment until I get my hands on the beta.

you can  honestly say that? after what theve said already ? we voted class locked race and they ignored it saying not gunna happen i have zero  FAITH  in roundtable

  quseio

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/18/07
Posts: 220

9/22/13 9:28:32 PM#79
Originally posted by Fangrim

I agree with you but this game will be so ultra casual you could level another toon quickly anyway,and as they say now no matter what you do it doesn't matter :)

This game will be the casuals wet dream,even more than GW2. That dream will probably last until the next MMORPG comes out because these kind of players just jump ship constantly. I don't totally blaim them because the devs are making throw away games to cater to these bottom feeders.

It is time to just face the facts,there will never in our lifetimes be a challenging MMORPG that makes you want to stay in it for years made.

maybe they will take  the technology  from eqn and reboot eq1 someday id play it  even if it was a bit wowified

  Swedish_Chef

Novice Member

Joined: 8/26/13
Posts: 225

Bort bort bort!

9/22/13 9:33:09 PM#80

TV Shows proposed by the OP!

(Relax, it's a joke)

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