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EverQuest Next

EverQuest Next 

General Discussion  » Why so few abilities on the action bar?

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70 posts found
  VintzQc

Novice Member

Joined: 9/06/13
Posts: 7

 
OP  9/18/13 10:12:27 PM#1

Hi,

This game looks amazing with the mechanics and all, but i'm worried about the fact one character cannot have more than 8 abilities on the same page. This looks to me like combat will be too simple and limit players in what they can perform in combat situations. Is there any chance they could increase those 8 abilities to 12, 15, or even more?

 

Also, do you guys think there will be open world PvP?

 

Thx for your thoughts about that

  User Deleted
9/18/13 10:18:16 PM#2

Action combat replaces many of those previously required buttons with movement abilities (i.e., dodge).

Due to the nature of movement required, 2+ action bars is too cumbersome. 

Some would argue that fewer available skills at one time is MORE challenging since you must plan ahead. You must be strategic in what skills you take with you rather than always have the entire book handy at all times.

In summary, it's not an issue.

  Telondariel

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/11/10
Posts: 861

9/18/13 10:33:07 PM#3
Originally posted by VintzQc

Hi,

This game looks amazing with the mechanics and all, but i'm worried about the fact one character cannot have more than 8 abilities on the same page. This looks to me like combat will be too simple and limit players in what they can perform in combat situations. Is there any chance they could increase those 8 abilities to 12, 15, or even more?

 

Also, do you guys think there will be open world PvP?

 

Thx for your thoughts about that

Well, their intention is to have you to pay more attention to the action and less on multiple bars of hotkeys.  Now, while there are 8 ability slots, there are going to be 40 classes worth of abilities to mix and match to put in the utility slots. So, say you bump across an encounter that your current setup doesn't quite mesh with, re-slot some skills and try again.

 

They haven't given the PvP details yet.  If it's like EQ and EQ2, there will be separate servers for open world PvP.

 

Much of the game, it seems, is still very much on paper.  That's good and bad.  As far as you asking if things can change..well, maybe.  They have made changes already, and seem sincere about open communication.  You can voice your opinions here, on Reddit, Twitter, as well as the Roundtable.

 

  Mastaccolli

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/17/07
Posts: 99

9/18/13 10:37:49 PM#4

There are only 8 because thats all a console controller can handle.  This isnt going to be made for PC its a console game at heart. 

 

  tom_gore

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 1803

9/19/13 12:15:19 AM#5
Originally posted by Mastaccolli

There are only 8 because thats all a console controller can handle.  This isnt going to be made for PC its a console game at heart. 

 

Yes because for example all PC shooters have 30 abilities on the hotkeybar, right?

In my opinion, action-based combat in MMOs is 100x more fun than the traditional hotkey tabtarget spam. I loved it in TERA (although the rest of the game was lackluster) and I'm loving it in GW2.

Tried FFXIV and was bored out of my mind. Also not going back to WoW because of the same reason.

Many buttons does not make a deep and interesting combat system.

 

  DixonHill

Novice Member

Joined: 5/31/05
Posts: 153

9/19/13 12:27:47 AM#6

I´d like to see more games adapt the model from DCUO, where players also have only a handful of abilities on their bars, but many more mouse button combos at their disposal. 

Dont know,...just like that system, gives me this feeling of control. 

  Kyllien

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/13
Posts: 315

9/19/13 1:49:51 AM#7
The main reason given given by the devs and I happen to agree is so that you are focusing on the action and getting immersed in the game.  Not spending time watching cool-down timers and spamming 45 abilities.
  ignore_me

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/04/11
Posts: 2034

9/19/13 2:14:44 AM#8
Originally posted by tom_gore
Originally posted by Mastaccolli

There are only 8 because thats all a console controller can handle.  This isnt going to be made for PC its a console game at heart. 

 

Yes because for example all PC shooters have 30 abilities on the hotkeybar, right?

In my opinion, action-based combat in MMOs is 100x more fun than the traditional hotkey tabtarget spam. I loved it in TERA (although the rest of the game was lackluster) and I'm loving it in GW2.

Tried FFXIV and was bored out of my mind. Also not going back to WoW because of the same reason.

Many buttons does not make a deep and interesting combat system.

 

Oh is EQNext a PC Shooter?

As a single-purpose combat gamepiece the character can be fully functional with only one button, why use 8? 

The ability to shuffle 500 different capabilities through 3 slots gives you endless opportunities to hit three buttons. The hot bar in EQNext is designed to be slick and cool, and doing anything besides flipping and whirling around is uncool. You need to be watching that awesome flipping and whirlwind action!

 

Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  toddze

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/02/08
Posts: 2195

I am not a hater, I call it like I see it.

9/19/13 2:29:58 AM#9
Well I for one am sick and tired of just constant hotbar spamming. I hope EQ NExt focuses more on strategy versus just a simple rotation of 8. Also you need to take into account you can have abilities from other jobs/classes on one character. think of what problems that would cause if allowed to have a lot of abilities in use at one time.

Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI

  tom_gore

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 1803

9/19/13 2:32:49 AM#10
Originally posted by ignore_me
Originally posted by tom_gore
Originally posted by Mastaccolli

There are only 8 because thats all a console controller can handle.  This isnt going to be made for PC its a console game at heart. 

 

Yes because for example all PC shooters have 30 abilities on the hotkeybar, right?

In my opinion, action-based combat in MMOs is 100x more fun than the traditional hotkey tabtarget spam. I loved it in TERA (although the rest of the game was lackluster) and I'm loving it in GW2.

Tried FFXIV and was bored out of my mind. Also not going back to WoW because of the same reason.

Many buttons does not make a deep and interesting combat system.

 

Oh is EQNext a PC Shooter?

As a single-purpose combat gamepiece the character can be fully functional with only one button, why use 8? 

The ability to shuffle 500 different capabilities through 3 slots gives you endless opportunities to hit three buttons. The hot bar in EQNext is designed to be slick and cool, and doing anything besides flipping and whirling around is uncool. You need to be watching that awesome flipping and whirlwind action!

 

My point was here .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And you hit here .

  Sho0terMcgavin

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/13/13
Posts: 318

9/19/13 2:39:51 AM#11
Originally posted by tom_gore
Originally posted by Mastaccolli

There are only 8 because thats all a console controller can handle.  This isnt going to be made for PC its a console game at heart. 

 

Yes because for example all PC shooters have 30 abilities on the hotkeybar, right?

In my opinion, action-based combat in MMOs is 100x more fun than the traditional hotkey tabtarget spam. I loved it in TERA (although the rest of the game was lackluster) and I'm loving it in GW2.

Tried FFXIV and was bored out of my mind. Also not going back to WoW because of the same reason.

Many buttons does not make a deep and interesting combat system.

 

I couldn't agree with you more.  Imagine if FF14 came out with Tera combat, or at the very least GW2 combat.  

  Hokie

Elite Member

Joined: 1/11/04
Posts: 1015

Hey Devs, just so you know. The more you give us to play with, the more we play.

9/19/13 2:41:40 AM#12

The whole Dev line of -

"We dont want to clutter the UI and want people to concentrate on the action"

Its just a BS line so you dont feel cheated by lack of situational choices that they had to take away so it can be played on a console with a controller.

 

Its simplified game play to the point that after a time its repetitive and well...simple.

"I understand that if I hear any more words come pouring out of your **** mouth, Ill have to eat every fucking chicken in this room."

  Peenenvy

Novice Member

Joined: 1/18/13
Posts: 15

9/19/13 2:46:24 AM#13

I agree with the poster in this thread. 8 will kill it for me thanks for the heads up.

 

GW2 had that boring fail option too and I could not get into it either.

  ignore_me

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/04/11
Posts: 2034

9/19/13 2:48:21 AM#14
Originally posted by tom_gore
Originally posted by ignore_me
Originally posted by tom_gore
Originally posted by Mastaccolli

There are only 8 because thats all a console controller can handle.  This isnt going to be made for PC its a console game at heart. 

 

Yes because for example all PC shooters have 30 abilities on the hotkeybar, right?

In my opinion, action-based combat in MMOs is 100x more fun than the traditional hotkey tabtarget spam. I loved it in TERA (although the rest of the game was lackluster) and I'm loving it in GW2.

Tried FFXIV and was bored out of my mind. Also not going back to WoW because of the same reason.

Many buttons does not make a deep and interesting combat system.

 

Oh is EQNext a PC Shooter?

As a single-purpose combat gamepiece the character can be fully functional with only one button, why use 8? 

The ability to shuffle 500 different capabilities through 3 slots gives you endless opportunities to hit three buttons. The hot bar in EQNext is designed to be slick and cool, and doing anything besides flipping and whirling around is uncool. You need to be watching that awesome flipping and whirlwind action!

 

My point was here .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And you hit here .

Your point was that you don't like tab target combat because it is boring, and I happen to agree with you there.  The rest of what you wrote was like the space in between the two phrases above. 8 buttons doesn't make an interesting combat system either. And if you think console and MOBA twitchies weren't the target of this design move, you are kidding yourself.

Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  Kaneth

Elite Member

Joined: 8/19/07
Posts: 1533

9/19/13 3:03:20 AM#15
Originally posted by Hokie

The whole Dev line of -

"We dont want to clutter the UI and want people to concentrate on the action"

Its just a BS line so you dont feel cheated by lack of situational choices that they had to take away so it can be played on a console with a controller.

 

Its simplified game play to the point that after a time its repetitive and well...simple.

Or.....it's what they really said it is. FF XIV: ARR has good controller support in a game that needs multiple hotbars (or so I am told by my PS3 friends).

What's more challenging overall; having 3-4 hotbars set up with multiple abilities so you can cover 90% of any situation you come across, or having only a small selection of specific choices that prevent you from generalizing your character and forces you to make deliberate choices in how to build a character?

I play and like both systems (currently playing FF:XIV ARR and GW2), but GW2 feels a bit more strategic in the combat side where I have only so many slots and need to make sacrifices (stability vs. stunbreakers vs. control for instance). When you can't really cover most situations by yourself you either need to improvise (which can create challenge) or you need to work in a team so you can rely on each other to cover most situations (which can also create challenge). Whereas in heavy hotbar style mmos challenge seems to come more from gear checks or gimmicky mechanics in fights.

I can see why many people feel turned off by the lack of abilities, and I would have liked the system to be a bit more fleshed out (at least a full 12 slots might be nice), but I'm also not one to completely write off the whole thing either.

  tom_gore

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 1803

9/19/13 3:29:01 AM#16
Originally posted by ignore_me

Your point was that you don't like tab target combat because it is boring, and I happen to agree with you there.  The rest of what you wrote was like the space in between the two phrases above. 8 buttons doesn't make an interesting combat system either. And if you think console and MOBA twitchies weren't the target of this design move, you are kidding yourself.

Obviously the target audience of a twitch style combat is the twitchies. Obviously Sony would like their new MMO to be playable on the PS4, too.

Still it doesn't mean it cannot have a deep and interesting combat system with "only" 8 buttons. Actually when you bring in the MOBAs, they have often less than 8 active abilities at the time and I dare anyone to say they have a less deep combat system than for example WoW has with it's 30+ active abilities.

That was my point, and only that.

  tom_gore

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 1803

9/19/13 3:30:24 AM#17
Originally posted by Kaneth

What's more challenging overall; having 3-4 hotbars set up with multiple abilities so you can cover 90% of any situation you come across

Only if the developers see the need to introduce dumb RPS mechanics to their MMO.

 

  rungard

Novice Member

Joined: 7/25/03
Posts: 1037

The Sandbox Foundation does not exist!

9/19/13 5:50:33 AM#18

Im ok with the 8 buttons if...

 

1) you can swap out your weapons in combat to access 4 new combat abilities.

2) you can swap out your utility bar set for a secondary utility set

 

I believe GW2 made the mistake of not allowing the swap on the secondary abilities. Seemed very confined to me.

  JeroKane

Elite Member

Joined: 2/21/06
Posts: 4823

9/19/13 5:54:58 AM#19
Originally posted by tom_gore
Originally posted by Mastaccolli

There are only 8 because thats all a console controller can handle.  This isnt going to be made for PC its a console game at heart. 

 

Yes because for example all PC shooters have 30 abilities on the hotkeybar, right?

In my opinion, action-based combat in MMOs is 100x more fun than the traditional hotkey tabtarget spam. I loved it in TERA (although the rest of the game was lackluster) and I'm loving it in GW2.

Tried FFXIV and was bored out of my mind. Also not going back to WoW because of the same reason.

Many buttons does not make a deep and interesting combat system.

 

You defeat yourself again, as there are no PC only shooters anymore. All shooters are mutliplatform.

And as they sell the most copies on XBOX360 and PS3... completely dwarfing PC sales these days....shooters are being developed as console game, then ported to PC.

  Stone_Fountain

Novice Member

Joined: 9/03/13
Posts: 69

"Death is certain, life is not."

9/19/13 6:14:51 AM#20
Originally posted by Hokie

The whole Dev line of -

"We dont want to clutter the UI and want people to concentrate on the action"

Its just a BS line so you dont feel cheated by lack of situational choices that they had to take away so it can be played on a console with a controller.

 

Its simplified game play to the point that after a time its repetitive and well...simple.

I agree with this.

First PC Game: Pool of Radiance July 10th, 1990. First MMO: Everquest April 23, 1999

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