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Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning

WAR (Warhammer Online) 

General Discussion  » What REALLY Grinds my Gears about WAR / Mythic

15 posts found
  BearKnight

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/24/13
Posts: 460

 
OP  9/18/13 5:00:03 PM#1

Is that Mythic was rehashing DAOC, with 3-sides, into a WAR ladened back-drop. They showed it to GamesWorkshop, and they completely shot it down because they wanted something that would ensure success. In other words, they literally referenced "World of Warcraft" as the model they wanted.

 

Two Sides

Linear Themepark Quest Driven

Simplistic Equipment system

Battlegrounds

Etc etc......

 

WAR actually gave an "innovation" to Themepark MMOs, "Public Quests". Unfortunately they were in infancy form that GW2 has now perfected.

 

 

So, Modern-Day Mythic is nothing more than in name only as EA literally vacuumed out the best of Mythic into other sectors of their corporation for other projects. DAOC is on life support and ruled by the voices of the minority subscriber (aka: 20 people complain enough and Mythic do sweeping changes to DAOC's EULA, etc).

 

Now, Mythic gets a bad rap for WAR when in reality it was GamesWorkshop coupled with being now owned by EA. Mythic, pre-EA, pre-GameWorkshop relationship was nothing short of an amazing studio!! NEVER FORGET!!!

 

Sorry, I just felt like getting that off my chest. I have family members whom used to work on DAOC, and I hear constantly about how EA took a massive dump all over Mythic in the FIRST week of being bought :(!

 

-Bear

  Arcona

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/04
Posts: 1192

9/18/13 5:03:58 PM#2
How many people from the old DAOC dev team is on Camelot Unchained dev team?
  tawess

Elite Member

Joined: 3/24/05
Posts: 2122

9/18/13 5:04:37 PM#3

Actually ALL GW campiagns in the TT have boiled down to two sided combat.. Order vs Chaos. It is part of the brand and that i think is the main reason WAR had two sides.  WoW played at best a very very minor part in that.

 

As for the instanced battles, they were sort of there to provide content for PvP players when the open world combat was in ebb for what ever reason. Not saying that it was a smart idea but it is easy to see why.

 

But yes the PvE part simply felt rushed in many places and even the open quests were sort of broken in many places.

Tomas Soapbox

This have been a good conversation

  VassagoMael

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/09/12
Posts: 539

9/18/13 5:07:18 PM#4
I realized how bad the game was when I noticed it was tunnel instead of an open world.

Free to play = content updates for the cash shop. Buy to play = content updates for the cash shop.
Subscription = Actual content updates!

  User Deleted
9/18/13 5:08:22 PM#5
Originally posted by Arcona
How many people from the old DAOC dev team is on Camelot Unchained dev team?

 For some odd reason when anything preceeds unchained, my mind reads it as Age of Conan.  So for about a second, this sentence confused the piss out of me.

  wsmar

Novice Member

Joined: 3/08/09
Posts: 122

9/18/13 11:57:50 PM#6
Originally posted by BearKnight

Is that Mythic was rehashing DAOC, with 3-sides, into a WAR ladened back-drop. They showed it to GamesWorkshop, and they completely shot it down because they wanted something that would ensure success. In other words, they literally referenced "World of Warcraft" as the model they wanted.

Even if Mythic had added a 3 faction system, the game would have gone down exactly the same road. It wasn't the faction system that screwed the game over, it was the terrible bugs, and horrific class balance that was present up until probably a year after the game launched. People got fed up with the bugs and left in droves. 

The RvR system they had in place was designed for a 2 faction system, and in my opinion worked VERY well once the initial launch bugs were worked out. If they chose a 2 faction system because of WoW, then I'd say it worked out fairly well for them. I was apart of many epic battles when I played DaOC back in the day, but none of them can even come close to the action and the epicness of the best battles in WAR. It was just so much better, the competition was amazing, extremely heated, and it paid off. 

 

Two Sides

Linear Themepark Quest Driven

Simplistic Equipment system

Battlegrounds

Etc etc......

 

WAR actually gave an "innovation" to Themepark MMOs, "Public Quests". Unfortunately they were in infancy form that GW2 has now perfected.

 That's a matter of opinion. GW2's "dynamic" events are definitely better than the PQ's in WAR, but at least WAR didn't lie about theirs. GW2's events aren't even in the slightest bit dynamic...

 

So, Modern-Day Mythic is nothing more than in name only as EA literally vacuumed out the best of Mythic into other sectors of their corporation for other projects. DAOC is on life support and ruled by the voices of the minority subscriber (aka: 20 people complain enough and Mythic do sweeping changes to DAOC's EULA, etc).

 

Now, Mythic gets a bad rap for WAR when in reality it was GamesWorkshop coupled with being now owned by EA. Mythic, pre-EA, pre-GameWorkshop relationship was nothing short of an amazing studio!! NEVER FORGET!!!

 I can definitely agree with a lot of this. 

Sorry, I just felt like getting that off my chest. I have family members whom used to work on DAOC, and I hear constantly about how EA took a massive dump all over Mythic in the FIRST week of being bought :(!

 Yeah, they laid off a ton of workers, I remember playing the game when this happened. WAR was gradually making improvements, and at that point progress slowed considerably and eventually made it to a stopping point. 

-Bear

 

  Mmocount

Novice Member

Joined: 2/19/10
Posts: 199

9/19/13 8:46:21 AM#7

I certainly don't agree with blaming EA for this. I've read nothing but reports of them being pretty much hands off when it came WAR and letting them do their thing .

 

And how do you remember them laying off people right after they bought it? They bought it before the game was even out, and they even funded development for an entire extra year... while all the time Mythic (Barnett) was claiming the game was already done but they were just polishing it (The new WOW buzzword)

 

Also, this game was *never* intended as a 3-way war the same as Daoc, that was cleared up very early on. There were 3 conflicts, yes, but it was always clearly two sides. What *did* change significantly was what kind of game it was. The initial game design was very clearly focused on scenario's being the main form of play. This is why they just had empty fields with flags before the outcry, and only after that and the extension they made as a response to that outcry were forts even mentioned/and added. On top of that, after all the reduction of importance of scenario's they claimed they did, they still played a pivotal role when the game came out.

This game was built for scenario play. It made sense. It's the only way their balance would have worked, because scenario's limited population imbalance and thus meant  no additional control was necessary. Which is why they barely had any to begin with.

 

Sadly they just kept spamming 'War is everywhere' till the point that the populace was grimacing every time they read war was not everywhere and that those horrible Wow Battleground like things might be an important part in this supposed massive RVR game. They made a clear shift to ORvR at some point in development, and it's like they had to play catchup from that point on, because the game obviously couldn't handle mass RvR.

  Ender4

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/18/08
Posts: 2098

9/19/13 9:13:07 AM#8

GW2 public quests are still flawed and broken, they have not perfected this idea at all.

WAR was doomed at release, the PvE is awful and while it is a RvR driven game you can't survive with awful PvE. The basic combat was just about the clunkiest in the business and the net code was laggy as heck. It didn't fail on a conceptual level, it failed on an execution level. I followed the game all during beta and then beta tested it and it was dead on arrival basically because the game was just poorly made.

The fact they don't feel they can compete with FTP games so they are shutting it down says a lot about the game. To be honest I can't imagine it surviving even as FTP, it just wasn't a good game for anyone but the exact niche of old DAOC players it targeted.

  Gorwe

Elite Member

Joined: 9/16/11
Posts: 1988

9/20/13 4:47:17 AM#9
Actually, if they stuck with the scenario+PvE game design, they could've done SO MUCH more! Various Scenarios instead of fixed ones(think GW 2's DEs, but in PvP format and instanced). Attack on Festenplatz, Siege of Gottland, Bohsenfels Crusade, ... . They could've had awesome PvE with an awesome PvP and perhaps even hurt WoW. If they didn't do a single wrong move during the dev time. The mistake that caused all the bugs, all the imba issues, all the catch up issues:

They didn't have the strength to just shove off incessant DAoC heads that were whining like babies because of no RvR. They simply had to point them back to DAoC and to continue with development of the game how they saw fit.

That lack of strength cost them greatly.

This. Was. Not. An RvR. Game. (And yet they spent so much money/time trying to make it work)

NEVER FORGET!
  Viper482

Elite Member

Joined: 11/04/10
Posts: 410

9/23/13 7:37:51 AM#10
Originally posted by BearKnight

Is that Mythic was rehashing DAOC, with 3-sides, into a WAR ladened back-drop. They showed it to GamesWorkshop, and they completely shot it down because they wanted something that would ensure success. In other words, they literally referenced "World of Warcraft" as the model they wanted.

 

Two Sides

Linear Themepark Quest Driven

Simplistic Equipment system

Battlegrounds

Etc etc......

 

WAR actually gave an "innovation" to Themepark MMOs, "Public Quests". Unfortunately they were in infancy form that GW2 has now perfected.

 

 

So, Modern-Day Mythic is nothing more than in name only as EA literally vacuumed out the best of Mythic into other sectors of their corporation for other projects. DAOC is on life support and ruled by the voices of the minority subscriber (aka: 20 people complain enough and Mythic do sweeping changes to DAOC's EULA, etc).

 

Now, Mythic gets a bad rap for WAR when in reality it was GamesWorkshop coupled with being now owned by EA. Mythic, pre-EA, pre-GameWorkshop relationship was nothing short of an amazing studio!! NEVER FORGET!!!

 

Sorry, I just felt like getting that off my chest. I have family members whom used to work on DAOC, and I hear constantly about how EA took a massive dump all over Mythic in the FIRST week of being bought :(!

 

-Bear

Interview with Mark Jacobs....

How much of a push or discussion was there in the planning stages for a third realm in WAR, a la DAoC? Considering the success that DAoC and other PvP-centric MMOs have had with this balance, why didn't WAR go this route?

My initial vision for the game was for three realms. Unfortunately, based on certain things that happened from then on, we changed to two. Would we have been better off with three? Who knows. DAoC was a very successful game, but if we had done three realms badly with WAR, I'm not sure the outcome would have been very different from what eventually happened. At the time, the entire senior leadership team at Mythic believed creating a two-realm game was a better choice than doing three for a variety of reasons.
 

  MumboJumbo

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/18/10
Posts: 3207

Veni, Vidi, Converti

9/23/13 8:14:09 AM#11
Originally posted by Viper482
Originally posted by BearKnight

Is that Mythic was rehashing DAOC, with 3-sides, into a WAR ladened back-drop. They showed it to GamesWorkshop, and they completely shot it down because they wanted something that would ensure success. In other words, they literally referenced "World of Warcraft" as the model they wanted.

 

Two Sides

Linear Themepark Quest Driven

Simplistic Equipment system

Battlegrounds

Etc etc......

 

WAR actually gave an "innovation" to Themepark MMOs, "Public Quests". Unfortunately they were in infancy form that GW2 has now perfected.

 

 

So, Modern-Day Mythic is nothing more than in name only as EA literally vacuumed out the best of Mythic into other sectors of their corporation for other projects. DAOC is on life support and ruled by the voices of the minority subscriber (aka: 20 people complain enough and Mythic do sweeping changes to DAOC's EULA, etc).

 

Now, Mythic gets a bad rap for WAR when in reality it was GamesWorkshop coupled with being now owned by EA. Mythic, pre-EA, pre-GameWorkshop relationship was nothing short of an amazing studio!! NEVER FORGET!!!

 

Sorry, I just felt like getting that off my chest. I have family members whom used to work on DAOC, and I hear constantly about how EA took a massive dump all over Mythic in the FIRST week of being bought :(!

 

-Bear

Interview with Mark Jacobs....

How much of a push or discussion was there in the planning stages for a third realm in WAR, a la DAoC? Considering the success that DAoC and other PvP-centric MMOs have had with this balance, why didn't WAR go this route?

My initial vision for the game was for three realms. Unfortunately, based on certain things that happened from then on, we changed to two. Would we have been better off with three? Who knows. DAoC was a very successful game, but if we had done three realms badly with WAR, I'm not sure the outcome would have been very different from what eventually happened. At the time, the entire senior leadership team at Mythic believed creating a two-realm game was a better choice than doing three for a variety of reasons.
 

As soon as I played war in tier 1 lake, it was obvious 2-sides was insufficient. 1st battle: Wow awesome. 2nd battle: I hope we win this time - we did! 3rd: Time: The same as 1st or 2nd time...

The reason they thought that was WOW money. They should have looked at Warhammer and all the factions there imho.

That said, wonder what Climax would have done with Warhammer... based more on the Fantasy RPG PnP game.

  Gorwe

Elite Member

Joined: 9/16/11
Posts: 1988

9/24/13 7:43:10 PM#12
Climax had me at the "WHFRP made into MMO" part. Why in the nine blazes did GW decide to change the dev team and scrap climax version completely? It makes no sense! It's 110% ridiculous!

And tbh, Warhammer Fantasy is about order vs destruction. I can't recall the last big battle between the Factions of order(War of the Beard lol?). The same could be said about destro. But there are more struggles there naturally, seeing how power hungry they all are. It has devolved into picking your flavour of order(Asur>Bretonnia>Asrai) and of destro(SCREW destro! Time for more order! Kislev>Empire>Dwarfs). If you want ffa, you are in the wrong Warhammer sadly. ffa is the Main theme of 40k you see(temporary alliances aside). Eldar<->Imperium<->Chaos<->orks<->Nids<->Necrons<->Dark Eldar<->Eldar. Tau are more inclined to Eldar, so I will leave them out of that diagram.

Again:

Free for all: 40k
Team based: Fantasy
  Theodwulf

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/01/12
Posts: 209

10/09/13 8:25:46 PM#13
Why people keep thinking thinking that 3 factions will work great is beyond me... What's to stop one mega faction from beating up TWO punching bag factions? Nothing...only population restrictions or a underdog buffing scheme would guarantee  balance.
  Mmocount

Novice Member

Joined: 2/19/10
Posts: 199

10/10/13 5:27:00 AM#14
Originally posted by Theodwulf
Why people keep thinking thinking that 3 factions will work great is beyond me... What's to stop one mega faction from beating up TWO punching bag factions? Nothing...only population restrictions or a underdog buffing scheme would guarantee  balance.


You're misunderstanding the benefit.

 

It's not about it absolutely solving the problem. It doesn't. What it does do however, is make it infinitely more fun compared to two factions. With 3 factions, there are countless chances of jumping in on fights between two other factions. There are actual reasons for a certain factions eyes not being on you at one time or another.  In two factions like here, the target of the other faction is you. That's it. There's nothing else. They're breathing down the door waiting for *you* to step out, with no distractions.

 

It may sound like a small difference but the way it plays in game and more importantly, the way it makes the game feel is simply vastly different.

  goldtoof

Novice Member

Joined: 10/18/13
Posts: 338

10/20/13 4:20:24 PM#15
If they'd spent a fraction of the money they spent on trying to turn swtor around on war it could have been a good mmo. The potential was there, and during 1.3 era it was a bloody good game. There was less wrong with war than was wrong with swtor, like the whole game engine grinding to a halt with more than 20 players around for a start.

1.4 annoyed me, because bioware took over and I thought "great perhaps they work on making the pve better, making the dungeons worth running for s half decent pvp set or something", but what did they do, they ignored pve and instead buggered about with pvp, which at the time was good and ended up breaking it with them stupid manticore flights, door bashing for an eternity and dress up as a skaven.