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Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn

Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn 

General Discussion  » The reason I think FFXIV is going to fail: Staying power

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413 posts found
  JayFiveAlive

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/04/09
Posts: 473

9/12/13 7:44:47 PM#21

Wildstar looks terrible IMO. FFXIV ARR is at least fun~ I didn't rush or skip content either... I do fates when there is nothing else to do quest wise. I've done many leves, etc. seen all the lands, gone to all the dungeons. I enjoyed the story a lot more than I expected as well.

 

Dungeons were great by the way, just pointless too as DPS anyway.. long long queues. Some of them were actually kinda hard which was refreshing. I loved figuring out their "puzzles" for the bosses, etc. 

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15596

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

9/12/13 7:51:11 PM#22
Originally posted by Jairoe03


Again, not everyone is playing for the same reasons and it doesn't necessarily always match your thinking and style. The game starting at end-game is a poor way of thinking that was unfortunately established by WoW when the low-mid level content became so stale and easily ignored that they had to recreate it. This isn't the case with FFXIV for me since there is more things to do, crafting is a little more engaging and the dialog is much better written thanmost other MMO's even for low level quests.

 

This certainly didn't begin with WOW. That was a normal way of thinking in games like DAOC and SWG as well. The thing is in those games it was partly true as reaching that point was typically only the beginning. In SWG you had many options of what to do, and your character was pretty much worthless until reaching full template. DAOC was all about the RvR endgame again non-capped toons were of little use when it came to the main activity of the product RvR.

I'd say WOW actually ushered in the current common concept that the journey is the bulk of the experience.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Alders

Elite Member

Joined: 1/28/10
Posts: 1701

I cannot fiddle but I can make a great state of a small city.

9/12/13 7:54:29 PM#23
Originally posted by JayFiveAlive
I just really hope my next MMO lasts a few years like they used to!

Those days are long gone I'm afraid, unless players are willing to put up with all the bullshit we used to. 

I mean, we put up with the top endgame boss being unkillable for 3+ years in XI.  No way in hell that stuff flies today.

Options.

  alancode

Novice Member

Joined: 9/20/10
Posts: 137

9/12/13 7:57:25 PM#24
Btw, I am level 44 and I just started, I was level 44 a year ago, that is why I am already level 44. PREVIOUS players get to keep their levels, that is why it seems everyone is already 50. 

(-_-)

  JayFiveAlive

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/04/09
Posts: 473

9/12/13 8:01:22 PM#25
Originally posted by alancode
Btw, I am level 44 and I just started, I was level 44 a year ago, that is why I am already level 44. PREVIOUS players get to keep their levels, that is why it seems everyone is already 50. 

Only on Legacy servers.

  User Deleted
9/12/13 8:07:17 PM#26


Originally posted by Distopia
This certainly didn't begin with WOW. That was a normal way of thinking in games like DAOC and SWG as well. The thing is in those games it was partly true as reaching that point was typically only the beginning. In SWG you had many options of what to do, and your character was pretty much worthless until reaching full template. DAOC was all about the RvR endgame again non-capped toons were of little use when it came to the main activity of the product RvR.

I'd say WOW actually ushered in the current common concept that the journey is the bulk of the experience.


That's actually incorrect in regards to DAOC because leveling was THE goal and it was considered by everyone to be the whole game. When you hit max level, you made it. That was it. That's how it was for a while until expansions came out and content started getting added on the end. I'll admit thats the only MMO i played where I actually didn't hit maximum level. In WoW, low-mid leveling became considered to be an obstacle to what people would actually consider the game aka end-game and this was the first game I experienced this way of thinking in terms of playing the game in an MMO.


SWG wasn't the same either because it was a sandbox and technically didn't have levels. Arguing about end-game in a sandbox with no levels doesn't prove much when we are speaking more in terms of theme park MMO's. Getting to the maximum parts of the game ((in one thing) wasn't actually nearly as time consuming as hitting max level in any theme-park MMO and no other game allowed me to hire a complete newbie to do lower level craft style work and allowed that newbie to get compensated millions of credit for sharing in my work (mostly "grunt" work, but she loved doing it and was sad when I told her I was leaving). I taught her everything in regards to resource gathering and she didn't need anything beyond the most basic levels of crafting. So you are also wrong in "needing" to be max level to get anywhere in sandbox styled games.


What I was mostly pointing out about WoW was the heavier emphasis on people feeling that they HAVE to hit end game to actually play the game and trivializing low-mid levels as mere obstacles to the game. I still firmly believe WoW started this trend and definitely played on the impatience of people when trying to attain goals.

  voltt

Novice Member

Joined: 3/16/07
Posts: 221

9/12/13 8:10:49 PM#27
Originally posted by JayFiveAlive
Originally posted by alancode
Btw, I am level 44 and I just started, I was level 44 a year ago, that is why I am already level 44. PREVIOUS players get to keep their levels, that is why it seems everyone is already 50. 

Only on Legacy servers.

 No not only on legacy servers, legacy chars had  chance to server transfer back in beta phase 3 i believe. There was also a level cap on early access of lvl 20 for new chars. I agree now adays people rush to max level.  I have a legacy char started fresh Up to about lvl 25 on my main and lvl 10 on other jobs. Still enjoying myself stil got a long ways to go im happy plan on playing for awhile

  JayFiveAlive

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/04/09
Posts: 473

9/12/13 8:15:06 PM#28
Originally posted by voltt
Originally posted by JayFiveAlive
Originally posted by alancode
Btw, I am level 44 and I just started, I was level 44 a year ago, that is why I am already level 44. PREVIOUS players get to keep their levels, that is why it seems everyone is already 50. 

Only on Legacy servers.

 No not only on legacy servers, legacy chars had  chance to server transfer back in beta phase 3 i believe. There was also a level cap on early access of lvl 20 for new chars. I agree now adays people rush to max level.  I have a legacy char started fresh Up to about lvl 25 on my main and lvl 10 on other jobs. Still enjoying myself stil got a long ways to go im happy plan on playing for awhile

I am quite certain you cannot transfer a character to a non-legacy server. That is the point of legacy servers. You don't get a any free levels on non-legacy, you start fresh like everyone else. Yes P4 and EA let you get to 20, but no more than that.

  voltt

Novice Member

Joined: 3/16/07
Posts: 221

9/12/13 8:18:35 PM#29
not 100% on that legacy chrs back then could only go to legacy servers im pretty sure they were llowed to go anywhere but limited to the amount of gill they could bring with them to the server
  nationalcity

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/31/04
Posts: 334

9/12/13 8:24:31 PM#30

Basically this is the nature of most MMO's now people get to max and it's fun for a month or so maybe then it's back to the same old, same old....

 

Some will stay, some will go.....

  tropik

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/30/03
Posts: 103

9/12/13 8:28:42 PM#31
Game gets boring as hell after you get lvl50. Running the same old dungeon multiple times to get gear for raids isn't fun at all. Especially when other games bring more than just that on top of harder and more exciting raids. Been there done that. Hey Square enix! Don't you know most have already been through this same shit in WoW? WoW does this better anyways so why bother?
  Cymdai

Novice Member

Joined: 6/05/05
Posts: 1085

It's my job to be objective, it's my right to have an opinion.

 
OP  9/12/13 8:30:06 PM#32
For the record, I want to make sure people understand that I have completed the content there is to complete; my storyline is essentially finished, and I did all the quests in between. It's easier to go faster when you've done the first 30 levels of the game like 6 times in the betas, and read all the dialogue before, etc. So I hope people realize I'm not skimping out on the content, but rather, there just isn't enough content to take up the time.

Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...

  MagKiln

Novice Member

Joined: 11/22/12
Posts: 56

9/12/13 8:37:37 PM#33
Great Read OP, So glad I am sitting on the bench on this one and waiting to see how it looks a few months down the road before I commit, although it is not looking good. 
  Raquis

Novice Member

Joined: 3/18/13
Posts: 305

9/12/13 8:39:51 PM#34

I want a living world that levels don't matter and quests are found not just mindless quests to level up.

the recipe of mmo games are old luckily the new generation next year is going to change all this hopefully.

luckily there is crowd funding so each can get what his tastes desire .

the problem with final fantacy is they are to scared to go out of the box,they are so scared of not appealing to their fans,

so they keep the games all the same.they have got great caracters and art style but no originality .

you cant like porshe make every 5 years a car that almost looks the same but is 10% better than the previous one.

if I was a developer I would say look at elders scrolls games as your base and make an mmo like that where you can go anywhere and get random missions that are interesting.

  ThumbtackJ

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/11/11
Posts: 474

9/12/13 8:45:32 PM#35
Originally posted by Cymdai

3) I've currently got a level 49 BRD, 50 LTW, and 40 WVR/GSM, 

I got the game on the 3rd, started playing on the 4th. I have 68 hours played so far (that averages out to about 7 hours a day over 9 days).

31 THM/BLM, 15 Archer, 6 CNJ, 14 Fisher, 15 Botanist, and 10 Carpenter. 

 

I'm not quite sure how long it takes to go 1-50 purely on FATE grinding, or how many hours a day people are having to put in to be hitting 50 now (aside from legacy users), but it seems to me that it's the normal, "Let's rush to end game within the first month." kind of thing. I don't blame the players though. SE made it easy to level, and players are going to take advantage of it, simple as that.

 

Not me though. I'm going to sit back, try every class, explore every nook and cranny, fill up my logs, help and goof around with other players, and just enjoy my journey to 50. 

 

EDIT: UPDATE: 7 Days Later:

Starting to get a bit bored. It's just... to samey for me. Maybe it's because I play a lot of Rift, so the transition to FF14 just isn't that different. I'll probably wait until 2.1 and so forth come out before I sub. Even taking my time, doing other things, etc. I'm just not feeling it.

Om bhur bhuvah svah
tát savitúr váreniyam
bhárgo devásya dhimahi
dhíyo yó nah pracodáyat

  User Deleted
9/12/13 8:48:55 PM#36


Originally posted by potlaki
I want a living world that levels don't matter and quests are found not just mindless quests to level up.

the recipe of mmo games are old luckily the new generation next year is going to change all this hopefully.

luckily there is crowd funding so each can get what his tastes desire .

the problem with final fantacy is they are to scared to go out of the box,they are so scared of not appealing to their fans,

so they keep the games all the same.they have got great caracters and art style but no originality .

you cant like porshe make every 5 years a car that almost looks the same but is 10% better than the previous one.

if I was a developer I would say look at elders scrolls games as your base and make an mmo like that where you can go anywhere and get random missions that are interesting.



Personally I still believe the best way to not lean on quests and leveling as heavily (at least if we are speaking in theme park sense) is to provide more freedom to the players in terms of what the game provides. Give the tools to them and thats where I believe EQ Next is at least trying to take the right direction. A small team of developers, designers and artists can only create so much so fast without compromising too much on quality. IMO, MMO's will HAVE to eventually start exploring tools that will allow players to influence the environment or provide content in some shape or form so the players are "creating" the content (either actively constructing it themselves or passively by "being the story) as opposed to a much smaller group of people trying to handle it for tens, hundreds of thousands or even millions of people.


The capabilities of a small team is already being stretched content wise and to me, this is the next greatest step. Whoever gets that right will probably be the next "biggest MMO". It would have to be in such a way where its either controlled enough to not provide players too much "influence" where one player could potentially break the game or subtle enough where players won't even notice the experiences they are actually having until later when they look back at the game in hindsight.

  niceguy3978

Elite Member

Joined: 6/14/06
Posts: 1994

9/12/13 9:18:14 PM#37
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Jairoe03


Again, not everyone is playing for the same reasons and it doesn't necessarily always match your thinking and style. The game starting at end-game is a poor way of thinking that was unfortunately established by WoW when the low-mid level content became so stale and easily ignored that they had to recreate it. This isn't the case with FFXIV for me since there is more things to do, crafting is a little more engaging and the dialog is much better written thanmost other MMO's even for low level quests.

 

This certainly didn't begin with WOW. That was a normal way of thinking in games like DAOC and SWG as well. The thing is in those games it was partly true as reaching that point was typically only the beginning. In SWG you had many options of what to do, and your character was pretty much worthless until reaching full template. DAOC was all about the RvR endgame again non-capped toons were of little use when it came to the main activity of the product RvR.

I'd say WOW actually ushered in the current common concept that the journey is the bulk of the experience.

One thing people seem to forget about WoW's launch is that it didn't have a whole lot of things to do once you hit 60.  It took a couple of patches to get the content in the game.  The difference between WoW and many of the games that launch today is that there was a ton to do before cap and you could level multiple characters and still not hit all the zones.  GW2 is probably the closest to this on launch of mmos that we've seen in the last few years, and I think that has a bit to do with its longevity (I know people will argue about how popular it is today, but it is better off after a year than the vast majority of games to have launched in the last 7 or 8 years).  I know of of the main points of FFIV is being able to level multiple classes on the same character, but you are redoing much of the same content over and over.  Eventually WoW fell into this, but it was after the original level cap and not for a couple of years with the first xpac.  I think people don't give enough credit for this aspect of WoW's initial longevity.

  echolynfan

Novice Member

Joined: 1/26/10
Posts: 721

I ain't got a gat but I gotta soldering gun

9/12/13 9:20:38 PM#38
Originally posted by donpopuki
When you can play a game like it's your job then yeah you might go through the content much faster than the rest of us. Theres always that small elite group in every game that essentially beats the game in 1 month. You can't design your game around these folks because no matter how hard you think you've made the game someone will always beat it in astosinling speed. 

This ^

 

Currently playing as Pete Puma on Excalibur. FF ARR - The best MMO I've played since SWG!

  Pewpsockemz

Novice Member

Joined: 5/01/08
Posts: 50

9/12/13 9:25:49 PM#39
All your issues are non-issues.
  LacedOpium

Elite Member

Joined: 11/22/12
Posts: 469

9/12/13 9:28:00 PM#40

 

This just in ... game developers do not develop these games with content locusts in mind.  They develop these games with casual gamers in mind.  They are fully aware that there is no way they can develop content faster than the locusts burn it.  To attempt to do so is futile.  You know it, I know it, we all know it.  Hence why they will take the locusts box money, and wave goodbye to them with a thank you when their 30 free days are up. 

 

This isn't exclusive to FF:ARR.  If you have even a modicum of knowledge regarding MMORPG releases, you have seen threads like this pop up in every game forum when games are released.  The content locusts rush to top level in a few days, and then begin complaining that there is nothing to do.  And then they take to the forums to complain because they are suddenly bored, have nothing to do, and are on the outside looking in.  Once there they are joined by a the disaffected few but vocal minority with their hidden agendas that will agree with anyone with anything negative to say about the game.  It's as predictable as night and day.  There will always be that minority that can never be satisfied. 

Prettying-up wrong by dressing it up as opinion does not negate the fact that it is still wrong.

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