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Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn

Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn 

General Discussion  » You're thoughts on planned gear score

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127 posts found
  Alamareth

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/03/06
Posts: 591

9/11/13 9:01:41 AM#61
Originally posted by Tsuru
Originally posted by Alamareth
Originally posted by Tsuru
Originally posted by Alamareth
Originally posted by Tsuru
Avg Item Level != gear score. Please dont confuse the two.

It's a pretty darn good indicator.  AF1 and AF2 are 70/90 respectively.  Good luck getting significantly better gear that don't have that kind of level on them.

Still, there are major differences between the two. Gear score took into account stat weights and gem bonuses. Avg Item level does not. In Wow people could get into raids while wearing high item level PVP gear, and they contributed way less then someone who has lower item level and was wearing proper gear. 

So again Avg Item level != gear score. They are implementing a Avg item level feature.

In this game, the two are largely the same.  I don't care about how WoW did it - this isn't WoW.

You aren't going to get the same "gear score" from materia enhanced 50s when compared to unenhanced 90s.  All you can do is get particularly awesome high level stuff.

You didnt prove me wrong on what i just said. This is what they are implementing:

 

  1. Addition of item level requirements for high-level dungeon participation
    We'll be adding a requirement to participate in high-level dungeons and hard mode primal battles that will make it so you need to have equipment above a certain item level equipped to participate. To coincide with this, we will be implementing a system that will display the average item level for your gear in the character window.
It says NOTHING about gear score. NOTHING about stats, NOTHING about materia. Just Item level. Item level != gear score. They are not the same, it doesnt matter how you view it. It is what it is.

Please stop.  You obviously haven't gotten to the current version end game.  The higher level stuff has higher stats, there are no equals.  AF2 is level 90 and it's the best gear in the game.  There is no level 90 item that isn't good, there's just one set.  The stats are set for each class, so you pretty much can't screw up.

Item level is basically a gear score that can be pushed further by enhancing.  You can't take a significantly lower item and turn it into some sort of bombing awesome set.

I see what you saying, but what I'm saying is that your point is meaningless because there is only one path in the game right now.

  Tsuru

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/09/08
Posts: 253

9/11/13 9:07:31 AM#62
Originally posted by Alamareth
Originally posted by Tsuru
Originally posted by Alamareth
Originally posted by Tsuru
Originally posted by Alamareth
Originally posted by Tsuru
Avg Item Level != gear score. Please dont confuse the two.

It's a pretty darn good indicator.  AF1 and AF2 are 70/90 respectively.  Good luck getting significantly better gear that don't have that kind of level on them.

Still, there are major differences between the two. Gear score took into account stat weights and gem bonuses. Avg Item level does not. In Wow people could get into raids while wearing high item level PVP gear, and they contributed way less then someone who has lower item level and was wearing proper gear. 

So again Avg Item level != gear score. They are implementing a Avg item level feature.

In this game, the two are largely the same.  I don't care about how WoW did it - this isn't WoW.

You aren't going to get the same "gear score" from materia enhanced 50s when compared to unenhanced 90s.  All you can do is get particularly awesome high level stuff.

You didnt prove me wrong on what i just said. This is what they are implementing:

 

  1. Addition of item level requirements for high-level dungeon participation
    We'll be adding a requirement to participate in high-level dungeons and hard mode primal battles that will make it so you need to have equipment above a certain item level equipped to participate. To coincide with this, we will be implementing a system that will display the average item level for your gear in the character window.
It says NOTHING about gear score. NOTHING about stats, NOTHING about materia. Just Item level. Item level != gear score. They are not the same, it doesnt matter how you view it. It is what it is.

Please stop.  You obviously haven't gotten to the current version end game.  The higher level stuff has higher stats, there are no equals.  AF2 is level 90 and it's the best gear in the game.  There is no level 90 item that isn't good, there's just one set.  The stats are set for each class, so you pretty much can't screw up.

Item level is basically a gear score that can be pushed further by enhancing.  You can't take a significantly lower item and turn it into some sort of bombing awesome set.

I see what you saying, but what I'm saying is that your point is meaningless because there is only one path in the game right now.

And you are obviously confused by my point. I wasnt even thinking about what your talking about. I was making a overall view saying Gear score != item level. People are already getting upset cause the writer of the original piece wrote gear score, and EVERYONE who plays MMO knows what gear score means and what it means in the community.  And im just letting everyone know that what they are planning is strictly avg item level and not gear score.

  SpottyGekko

Elite Member

Joined: 9/26/04
Posts: 2738

9/11/13 9:12:11 AM#63

Reading some of the responses in this thread has convinced me that the Gear Score admission requirement is a very good thing.

 

It will prevent some people from wasting the time of their unfortunate groupmates, by preventing them from queuing for content that they most likely cannot complete. Yes, just as there are "elitist idiots" who believe that you absolutely need GS9999 to do dungeon X, so there are those that will insist they can do dungeon X in jeans and t-shirt (because they have l33t skillz).

 

The bell-curve has 2 ends, after all.

  Alamareth

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/03/06
Posts: 591

9/11/13 9:12:38 AM#64
Originally posted by Purutzil

Honestly, gear in FF14 does so little unless you are a tank. The only real piece that has a major effect is the weapon and its not that massive of a shift. I think its stupid but at the same time tanks jumping in with no gear (oddly considering you get free AF gear basically for doing class quests) can easily screw a group over, and there are people attempting to skip content and rush the end without really having 'learned' the game.

 

I really am against gearscore but I can see why its there. I personally feel skill will outshine gear, particularly in FF14. I've enjoyed proving it time and time again in MMos I played that is the case outdoing players in better gear and FF14 is something i feel is built around the impact being more minimal.

Unfortunately, you are wrong.  By the time you get to Titan HM, everyone will need good gear.

Skill certainly helps and if you suck you probably won't make it that far regardless of gear.  However, skill can't overcome certain gear deficiencies.

  Foomerang

Elite Member

Joined: 11/10/05
Posts: 4721

A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still

9/11/13 9:15:17 AM#65

It allows developers to create more difficult content. They can go into designing a new raid knowing players specific stats and throughput. I think its a good decision.

Crafters will benefit a lot from this since they can make gear good enough for people to raid.

If you thought the events were dynamic, you'll think the stories are living.

  Lexin

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/09/05
Posts: 701

Mess With The Rest
Die Like The Best!

9/11/13 9:24:10 AM#66
I'm split on this. On one side I don't like having to run the same dungeons over and over for tomes but on the other side I have seen people in a 40+ dungeon wearing level 1 starter gear. So I will wait and see tomorrow if and how much this will effect me from enjoying the game.

  Wicoa

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/08/07
Posts: 1613

9/11/13 9:29:06 AM#67

Doesnt bother me wow still has GS you cant unlock the lfr raids without one.

Gearscore is needed to normalize and optimize a raid group. There is an odd exception of great players who move heaven and earth to prove they are better than gear, however put that same person in better gear and you have got magic which means a much better performance in a gate locked raid.

  bizoux86

Novice Member

Joined: 4/26/12
Posts: 85

9/11/13 9:30:40 AM#68
I'm surprised so many voted NO on that poll! I voted yes, here's why.... I play a healer! I don't want to be heal spamming and pulling my hair out because members of my group keep getting 2-shotted by things they shouldn't be taking so much damage to. People should wear appropriate gear for certain content, there's nothing wrong with this idea and many other games implement it.
  StanlyStanko

Novice Member

Joined: 10/28/11
Posts: 262

9/11/13 9:40:07 AM#69

It's fine.

Games are collections of many systems. Systems have functions and limits.

Not everyone is going to qualify for every system. (such as raiding)  That's fine too. There's plenty else to do.

  Hitman211

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/09/13
Posts: 53

 
OP  9/11/13 9:59:19 AM#70

I think in the end, most would prefer the game not making it wait in a dungeon finder queue just to have someone, and possibly in an unpleasant way,tell them "you are not geared enough for this, im leaving" instead the game will say "spend your tombs on more gear if you want to do this"  

 

That's really all this does.  Takes the delivery of unpleasant news and takes it out of the mouth of another player.  We all know telling someone they are not ready for a dungeon they are standing in with you never...ever...end up in anything other than that person getting really upset, possibly aggressive...and pissing everyone off.

Also...now you wont be able to skip people past endgame content...which is a bonus.  That's right your FC leader wont be able to have a fresh 50 tag along for gear rolls during your raid.  Want to help your buddy out go to the lower dungeon with him.

 

As I said im my first post.  They ALREADY do this with level requirements to dungeons. Its the same thing as that.

  neobahamut20

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 351

We can only show them the path, but they have to be the ones to take it.

9/11/13 10:04:54 AM#71
Originally posted by JudgeUK

They've spent years of intensive recovery effort, people replacements, significant financial outlay,  just to come along with another gs->raid clone mmo?

They "looked at what players were playing and what they liked, so they put it in a final fantasy flavor. Please look forward to it!"

Boycotting EA. Why? They suck, even moreso since 2008.

  Hitman211

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/09/13
Posts: 53

 
OP  9/11/13 10:53:02 AM#72
Originally posted by neobahamut20
Originally posted by JudgeUK

They've spent years of intensive recovery effort, people replacements, significant financial outlay,  just to come along with another gs->raid clone mmo?

They "looked at what players were playing and what they liked, so they put it in a final fantasy flavor. Please look forward to it!"

 Here is the thing I like.  They never once said "innovative" "groundbreaking" "revolutionary" or attempted in any way to overhype the relaunch.

People who are playing the game knew what to expect out of it, and it delivered.  You can argue that the game offers nothing new...and you would be right.  However, with every new game and their mother trying to push boundaries and re-invent the wheel...and all of those proving to flop (hate to use that term most did ok but here people consider that a flop so ill use it) it seems that the market was certainly there for a game like this.  53 packed servers attest to that.  Will it last? who knows.  If history is proof FFXI did well and it was under the radar most of its life.

So a game finally decides to stop with the hipster stuff, stops with the overhype and promising the world, stops trying to make one game for all gamers and make everyone happy.

And the results of that was a very successful launch. No one raging about busted system, no one raging about how that new groundbreaking system is lame or the same old.

Just a really good mmorpg like developers use to make.  Doesn't try to fool anyone.  Just does what people have liked.  Plenty of games out there who reinvent the wheel if you hated what mmorpgs use to be.

  JudgeUK

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/15/11
Posts: 704

9/11/13 10:55:41 AM#73
Originally posted by neobahamut20
Originally posted by JudgeUK

They've spent years of intensive recovery effort, people replacements, significant financial outlay,  just to come along with another gs->raid clone mmo?

They "looked at what players were playing and what they liked, so they put it in a final fantasy flavor. Please look forward to it!"

Please look backward to it?

I've nothing against the gear -> raid progression, played it for years in many mmo's.

But that's the point - many mmo's. All SE have done is provide a wow clone under the FF label. Was honestly hoping all their time and effort would have produced something a bit different.

But maybe their past catastrophe with this game is the reason they went down the comfort zone route. They tried to be different first time and it bit them hard, so retreat back to a well worn no risk format.

I hope other game developers don't follow suit, have the courage to expand the box so we don't just see a future conveyor belt of me too games.

  Voqar

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/28/04
Posts: 470

9/11/13 10:57:00 AM#74

It amazes me how many people have silly thoughts on this.

 

Requiring gear for content has nothing to do with elitism - stop being ridiculous.  It's just a way of saying, duh, you need to be appropriately geared for the content.  So sad, nobody gets to carry your loser self thru.

 

Yeah yeah, cry me a river.  I'm sure you're so amazing that you can produce more dps and heals than are numerically possible in your current gear to somehow actually be suitable for content well beyond you.  There's no lack of people who are legends in their own minds playing MMORPGs.  But back in reality, even if you are 95% efficient, which would be very high, you are still limited by what your gear allows for producing numbers, and everything computer, including games, comes down to numbers.  Ie, you could be god's gift to gaming and the best raider in the world but you are still limited for output based on your gear.

 

One thing they seem to be attempting in FFXIV is to reduce cheese.  Sissies can't have their high level friends plow them thru instances due to level scaling.  You can't obliterate already moronically easy fates with being higher level.  Etc.  This is just more of the same.  Prevent geared players from dragging ungeared players thru content to get them easy gear.  This game is already easy, making it even more easy for the pansies of the genre isn't necessary.  I applaud this move.  P2P is all about playing to win, not having someone carry you - might as well do P2W if you're that much of a scrub.

 

To most sensible people this is a non issue because if you give a crap and have a clue you will already be appropriately geared for content you're doing.  Plus you'll most likely be doing high end content with your FC and/or friends who you already know are geared and competent and you won't need gearscore except as a reference for when a friend asks, how do I know I'm ready for XXX?

 

Good MMORPGs have tiered content.  Tiered content has gear progression.  Gear progression means getting gear from one tier before moving on to the next.  Gearscore is just one way of measuring your progress thru progression.  Simple.  Easy.  Not a big deal.  You could say "you need your sexified suit of uberness before doing boss XXX."  You could say "you need to complete W, X, and Y before doing Z" - OR you can just simply say, you need this amount of gear for X, this for Y, this for Z, and make it a lot less nebulous and a lot less confusing.  Even the dumbest of the dummies in MMORPGs can usually understand simple numbers as long as there aren't too many digits involved.

 

There is the possibility of d-baggery, which also isn't really elitism, unless you REALLY think a bunch of punks whos only achievements in life are playing video games 20 hours a day and thinking they're oh so amazing are in any way elite. I'm SURE mommy is proud as she monitors the basement and changes the diapers.  You're going to see people doing the "LFG for XXX speed runs have a stick up your butt and XXX gear score"....

 

...and who cares.  You're not obligated to group with anybody.  Make some friends of like mind.  Use doody finder.  Why should you care how other people play anyways?  Blacklist if you really can't stand to see that kind of spam.

 

Premium MMORPGs do not feature built-in cheating via cash for gold pay 2 win. PLAY to win or don't play.

  Ridelynn

Elite Member

Joined: 12/19/10
Posts: 3313

9/11/13 11:03:54 AM#75

I don't mind dungeons having a GS requirement.

I would mind it if your GS becomes a public statistic - such that players are taking it upon themselves to invite/boot based on GS and not player ability.

  neobahamut20

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 351

We can only show them the path, but they have to be the ones to take it.

9/11/13 11:05:25 AM#76
Originally posted by JudgeUK
Originally posted by neobahamut20
Originally posted by JudgeUK

They've spent years of intensive recovery effort, people replacements, significant financial outlay,  just to come along with another gs->raid clone mmo?

They "looked at what players were playing and what they liked, so they put it in a final fantasy flavor. Please look forward to it!"

Please look backward to it?

I've nothing against the gear -> raid progression, played it for years in many mmo's.

But that's the point - many mmo's. All SE have done is provide a wow clone under the FF label. Was honestly hoping all their time and effort would have produced something a bit different.

But maybe their past catastrophe with this game is the reason they went down the comfort zone route. They tried to be different first time and it bit them hard, so retreat back to a well worn no risk format.

I hope other game developers don't follow suit, have the courage to expand the box so we don't just see a future conveyor belt of me too games.

Sorry about your shattered dreams.

Shattered Dreams

Boycotting EA. Why? They suck, even moreso since 2008.

  bubbabill

Novice Member

Joined: 5/23/13
Posts: 82

9/11/13 2:31:03 PM#77
just so glad im not paying them 15 dollars a month for a gs system.   it ruined wow for me and and i will never touch a game that has it in it.  just to many elitist pigs out there for me. 
  Hitman211

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/09/13
Posts: 53

 
OP  9/11/13 2:38:12 PM#78
Originally posted by bubbabill
just so glad im not paying them 15 dollars a month for a gs system.   it ruined wow for me and and i will never touch a game that has it in it.  just to many elitist pigs out there for me. 

 You do realize the reason they did this, locking content with item level locks, is so that the game tells you when you are able to run an endgame instance instead of the elitist pig, as you put it.

This is no different than level locking nooby dungeons.

So now you DONT have to deal with elitist pigs when doing endgame since if you don't have the gear needed you wont be able to queue up or enter the instance.  Problem solved.

Even without a numerical gear score people still would check your gear so the lack of this system doesn't even fix the issue of people not wanting to run instances with under geared players.

  neobahamut20

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 351

We can only show them the path, but they have to be the ones to take it.

9/11/13 2:42:09 PM#79
Originally posted by bubbabill
just so glad im not paying them 15 dollars a month for a gs system.   it ruined wow for me and and i will never touch a game that has it in it.  just to many elitist pigs out there for me. 

It did non ruin WoW, it only stopped people from trying to get carried by better players and all games should have that. It also stopped people from going from 0 to hero in a few instance runs, though it is still possible with raids. Seriously, if you cannot get the required gear maybe then as a player, you lack something. Everytime I see someone complain about gearscore I think that person was just a terrible gamer.

Boycotting EA. Why? They suck, even moreso since 2008.

  Darknessguy64

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/30/13
Posts: 237

9/11/13 2:44:13 PM#80

It's a good thing. If you are managing your gear, it shouldn't be a problem for you.

 

If you need to reach a certain ilevel...it gives you a goal. Goals are good. Embrace it instead of complaining about it.

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