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Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn

Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn 

General Discussion  » Dungeon GRINDER for Tokens: Let the gear grind games begin!

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91 posts found
  Ayulin

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/13
Posts: 344

9/10/13 1:48:28 PM#61
Originally posted by time007

Just an fyi post for those wondering what happens after 50:

 

You grind a starter dungeon doing speed runs for 50 tokens a pop.  the starter dungeon can take anywhere from 20 minutes to 1 hour/90 minutes (if you even finish it) depending on if people aggro mobs while the tank is speed running and gathering all the mobs to die in the boss room.

 

Gear costs like 375 - 1325 tokens per piece, in the end, it'll cost like 3500 tokens for a full set of armor, then 375 for each jewelry piece.  You can use the gear that drops in dungeons, its like level 55, but the starter token gear is 70 I think. 

You can do other things, like the 2nd dungeon, ifrit or garuda and other things BUT if you use dungeon finder, chances are the group you get won't be geared well enough for anything but the starter dungeon.  I mean it really takes just one weak player to take down a 4 or 8 man pug.

 

Lots of players blow their LB at the wrong time, or get aoe'd and it wipes the group, and people rage quit.  So as of right now a lot of players aren't geared or learned enough to beat anything but the starter dungeon.

 

So, unless you have a circle of 4-8 friends or a guild that is 50, you will be grinding the starter dungeon over and over for like 120+ plus times to get the tokens you need. 

 

Good luck!

 

EDIT: yes ifrit and garuda can be beat with a PUG but if you are trying to farm tokens with PUGS, those harder dungeons are a bad idea right now, and for efficiencies sake you will get too many wipes, and fail and possibly not get any tokens, vs just grinding the starter dungeon.

Absolutely null surprise there.

Yoshi-P said very early on that his vision for ARR was to model it after "the standard modern theme park".

Numerous decisions he's made and systems he's described since then have illustrated he meant exactly what he said.

Now the end-game dungeon/gear grind is yet another way he's sticking to the "tried and true" (aka "the old and tired").

Hey, he's a man of his word at least!

"Please look forward to it!"

 

The MMO community is more and more pushing toward "less streamlined, less themepark, fewer quest-hubs, more open world, more freeform". Developers - at least the ones paying attention - have been catching on to the fact that the so-called "standard themepark setup" is unsustainable; players can simply burn through content far too fast for developers to keep up. This is particularly true when the developers are also feeling pressure to "make all the content accessible/soloable/less challenging", or face backlash from players complaining about "grind" and "leveling is too slow!", because reaching level cap took them more than a week.

 

So, while other developers have come to this realization and are trying to move away from it in various ways (with SOE being, perhaps, the most aggressive about it with EQN - time will tell on that, though), Yoshi-P decided to take ARR and run in the opposite direction.... straight for the heart of the "themepark" template. He's just arriving at a party that most everyone else is leaving.

 

 

The result is..... surprise of surprises... a MMO that plays/feels like yet another standard themepark MMO with all the same things people have done ad nauseum for the past 8 years-plus.... but wrapped in a slick FF skin, complete with fan service aplenty.

And before anyone asserts otherwise... yes, I've played ARR. Plenty. Through Alpha and Beta, into EA and Launch (when I could actually log in). I came over with a 1.0/Legacy character, so I was able to access lots of the high-end content right off the bat.

  LizardEgypt

Novice Member

Joined: 2/25/09
Posts: 359

Hmm ?

9/10/13 1:51:00 PM#62
Originally posted by Makidian
Let me correct myself, it's boring to me. Once you ride a themepark you get burnt out of it I guess. The game is good, don't get me wrong, I just can't do the rides again. 5 years ago prolly but not anymore : ( The funny thing is after I stopped playing FF, I started Darkfall UW, guess I needed a sandbox. Good luck to all FF players.

Darkfall UW is really good, I'd still be playing if paypal didn't get me banned...

Currently playing - FF14ARR
Previous games - SWG, World of Warcraft, ShadowBane, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Darkfall, Planetside Asheron's Call, Everquest, Everquest 2, Too many.

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 5216

9/10/13 1:56:10 PM#63
Originally posted by Ayulin
Originally posted by time007

Just an fyi post for those wondering what happens after 50:

 

You grind a starter dungeon doing speed runs for 50 tokens a pop.  the starter dungeon can take anywhere from 20 minutes to 1 hour/90 minutes (if you even finish it) depending on if people aggro mobs while the tank is speed running and gathering all the mobs to die in the boss room.

 

Gear costs like 375 - 1325 tokens per piece, in the end, it'll cost like 3500 tokens for a full set of armor, then 375 for each jewelry piece.  You can use the gear that drops in dungeons, its like level 55, but the starter token gear is 70 I think. 

You can do other things, like the 2nd dungeon, ifrit or garuda and other things BUT if you use dungeon finder, chances are the group you get won't be geared well enough for anything but the starter dungeon.  I mean it really takes just one weak player to take down a 4 or 8 man pug.

 

Lots of players blow their LB at the wrong time, or get aoe'd and it wipes the group, and people rage quit.  So as of right now a lot of players aren't geared or learned enough to beat anything but the starter dungeon.

 

So, unless you have a circle of 4-8 friends or a guild that is 50, you will be grinding the starter dungeon over and over for like 120+ plus times to get the tokens you need. 

 

Good luck!

 

EDIT: yes ifrit and garuda can be beat with a PUG but if you are trying to farm tokens with PUGS, those harder dungeons are a bad idea right now, and for efficiencies sake you will get too many wipes, and fail and possibly not get any tokens, vs just grinding the starter dungeon.

Absolutely null surprise there.

Yoshi-P said very early on that his vision for ARR was to model it after "the standard modern theme park".

Numerous decisions he's made and systems he's described since then have illustrated he meant exactly what he said.

Now the end-game dungeon/gear grind is yet another way he's sticking to the "tried and true" (aka "the old and tired").

Hey, he's a man of his word at least!

"Please look forward to it!"

 

The MMO community is more and more pushing toward "less streamlined, less themepark, fewer quest-hubs, more open world, more freeform". Developers - at least the ones paying attention - have been catching on to the fact that the so-called "standard themepark setup" is unsustainable; players can simply burn through content far too fast for developers to keep up. This is particularly true when the developers are also feeling pressure to "make all the content accessible/soloable/less challenging", or face backlash from players complaining about "grind" and "leveling is too slow!", because reaching level cap took them more than a week.

 

So, while other developers have come to this realization and are trying to move away from it in various ways (with SOE being, perhaps, the most aggressive about it with EQN - time will tell on that, though), Yoshi-P decided to take ARR and run in the opposite direction.... straight for the heart of the "themepark" template.

 

The result is..... surprise of surprises... a MMO that plays/feels like yet another standard themepark MMO with all the same things people have done ad nauseum for the past 8 years-plus.... but wrapped in a slick FF skin, complete with fan service aplenty.

 

Yoshi-P is trying to crest a wave that's in the process of being abandoned by almost everyone else. He's several years too late.

 

And before anyone asserts otherwise... yes, I've played ARR. Plenty. Through Alpha and Beta, into EA and Launch (when I could actually log in). I came over with a 1.0/Legacy character, so I was able to access lots of the high-end content right off the bat.

Except for one thing.

There are still plenty of us who weren't done with those rides. But all the other Standard Theme parks shut down or underwent "Major renovations" and are no longer the Theme Park they once were. Now, this is the only one left under that old umbrella. This is exactly what I wanted and I don't think I am alone.

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  Makidian

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/28/13
Posts: 207

9/10/13 1:56:57 PM#64
I thought it would be trash but I'm loving it, might not have great graphics but it has everything else.
  Ayulin

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/13
Posts: 344

9/10/13 2:02:01 PM#65
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
 

Except for one thing.

There are still plenty of us who weren't done with those rides. But all the other Standard Theme parks shut down or underwent "Major renovations" and are no longer the Theme Park they once were. Now, this is the only one left under that old umbrella. This is exactly what I wanted and I don't think I am alone.

That's fine.

The point isn't whether or not that style can be enjoyed.

The point is if that style is or isn't sustainable... at least as a sub-based MMO. MMO after MMO after MMO over the last 8+ years, has proven quite empirically that "no, it isn't".

Yoshi-P is latching on to a paradigm that's all but been proven to be no bueno. Again, at least for a MMO intended to remain sub-based, and not even reliably as F2P/Hybrid.

It's fair to say that there's a population of players who will take their time and take in all that a MMO has to offer, rather than rushing through it. I'm part of that crowd.

Sadly, it seems most others aren't, and those who are, aren't numerous enough to maintain a sustainable subscriber base.

 

  time007

Novice Member

Joined: 7/09/09
Posts: 390

"Get your FPS out of my MMORPG" - Timetrapper (me)

 
OP  9/10/13 2:20:30 PM#66

A.  I'm going to keep playing the game, I just wanted to point out to people what to expect at 50 and what a lot of players were doing.  So I'm not a content locust, as I plan to stay in the game.  I'm just trying to gear up for Frontlines, is there a problem with that?  How Is that being a content locust? 

 

B.  My original post is truthful.  This is what is actually happening.  Believe it or not, but you'll see when you hit 50

 

C.  There is harder endgame content!!!!!  Just no one is geared for it now, at least in PUGs.  Ok???  There are harder dungeons.  But for those peeps who ding 50 they'll probably run into the situation that I did.

 

D.  Hopefully in a couple of months people will do the token gear grind, get the level 70 gear and more and more people can do harder content instead of grinding the same dungeon over and over

 

E.  I'm going to keep playing this game until they add Frontline and see how it turns out.

 

F.  As for other content besides a gear grind they could add.  hmmm maybe a huge level 50+ open world zone where people could do NON-INSTANCED PVE raids???  Like a big zone where you aren't locked into an 8 person party, but can take 50+ and work 1-2 hours to fight a huge dragon or something.  That would allow non 50s to participate and help. 

 

LASTLY, you need to have the basis token gear or you will get killed too easily on Ifrit and Garuda.  If 1 person dies on those bosses because of low hp, chances are they will die often and become a liability, and you need all 8 guys to beat those bosses if you are in a PUG. 

 

  LizardEgypt

Novice Member

Joined: 2/25/09
Posts: 359

Hmm ?

9/10/13 2:22:49 PM#67
Originally posted by time007

A.  I'm going to keep playing the game, I just wanted to point out to people what to expect at 50 and what a lot of players were doing.  So I'm not a content locust, as I plan to stay in the game.  I'm just trying to gear up for Frontlines, is there a problem with that?  How Is that being a content locust? 

 

B.  My original post is truthful.  This is what is actually happening.  Believe it or not, but you'll see when you hit 50

 

C.  There is harder endgame content!!!!!  Just no one is geared for it now, at least in PUGs.  Ok???  There are harder dungeons.  But for those peeps who ding 50 they'll probably run into the situation that I did.

 

D.  Hopefully in a couple of months people will do the token gear grind, get the level 70 gear and more and more people can do harder content instead of grinding the same dungeon over and over

 

E.  I'm going to keep playing this game until they add Frontline and see how it turns out.

 

F.  As for other content besides a gear grind they could add.  hmmm maybe a huge level 50+ open world zone where people could do NON-INSTANCED PVE raids???  Like a big zone where you aren't locked into an 8 person party, but can take 50+ and work 1-2 hours to fight a huge dragon or something.  That would allow non 50s to participate and help. 

 

LASTLY, you need to have the basis token gear or you will get killed too easily on Ifrit and Garuda.  If 1 person dies on those bosses because of low hp, chances are they will die often and become a liability, and you need all 8 guys to beat those bosses if you are in a PUG. 

 

I'm hoping the tokens aren't a permanent trend in the game's design, but I don't have a problem with it if it's a gate while we wait for additional RNG gear content to be released.

Currently playing - FF14ARR
Previous games - SWG, World of Warcraft, ShadowBane, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Darkfall, Planetside Asheron's Call, Everquest, Everquest 2, Too many.

  drbaltazar

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/28/07
Posts: 7987

9/10/13 2:29:08 PM#68
when I said to a tank to move to avoid damage he was like :since when tank need to avoid damage.I was like :oh dam we all wipe!we wiped and didn't act finish the dungeon.people are so used to wow static just avoid what's on the floor they can not comprehend the fact will have to keep agro in another manner.
  Bigdaddyx

Elite Member

Joined: 5/24/10
Posts: 1990

9/10/13 2:29:19 PM#69
Originally posted by LizardEgypt
Originally posted by Bigdaddyx
Originally posted by LizardEgypt

 

You're missing a lot of the point I think. I've had a great deal of enjoyment playing the game and leveling and as much as I dislike token farming end-games, the point of this game is to do dungeons and group with people. If you dislike that, or think it is archaic, or weak, either design your own MMO or stop playing them entirely. It's possible you are playing the wrong genre, there a a massive amount of non-grindy games that don't subject you to grouping end-game farming that you don't seem to want to be a part of.

I knew sooner or later someone will come up with 'make your own MMO or stop them playing entirely' as if all MMOS are still following this old WOW gear treadmill formula. And what is even more ironic is that you are telling me that i am a missing a lot of points. And yes i have stopped playing FFXIV couple of days ago once i realised what i am faced with at 50 since i have no interest in crafting or gathering classes. I was really hoping there will be some variety at end game. But i won't deny that leveling experince was really best part of it all.

Yes MMOs have end game grinding for gear and stats but a lot of these same MMOS do not have 'just' gear grinding for end game.

A good MMO is one which gives players choices and not force them just to raid or quit. In my case i had no choice but to 'quit'. Deja Vu from Rift (even though Rift later on realised this and branched out itself in lot of various end game activities) and SWTOR? i certainly had one. Good luck to SE in keeping 300,000 concurrent players after free month is over.

The joke is still on you. I'm not happy with themepark treadmill games either, but when I sit down to play one I don't lie to myself about what my expectations are. There is literally not one other possible thing this game could have been at 50, you know what it's going to be within the first 5 levels. The state of the genre is not an excuse for your unsatisfaction or whining... especially in the first 3 weeks of this game.

Please tell me about the lies that i told myself. Why do you think i quit after leveling to 50? if i was lying to myself i would renew my sub in hope of some magic to happen or miracle patch to drop which will give a lot more choices at lvl 50. 

Also 'its been 3 weeks' excuse is weak considering it is a remake of 1.0, they had a lot of oppertunities and a second chance to make sure that this time players have lot more options in terms of gameplay other than raid or die at lvl 50. They won't be getting a third chance.

If you think my concerns about the end game at lvl 50 and missed oppertunity for the second time by SE is whining then sir i can assure you that you don't know what whining really is.Its funny that you tell me that state of genre is not an excuse for my whining but somehow it is an excuse for you to come up with a lame defence like 'its just been 3 weeks'. 

What puzzles me the most is that game companies learn nothing from past experinces. As if they live in their own bubble with no outside contact. They keep repeating same mistakes over and over again and then wonder why players are dropping faster than dead flies once free month is over.

A sub based game with nothing but raids for gear grinding at lvl 50 in year 2013? do i even need to tell you how this is going to end up in couple of months?

  LizardEgypt

Novice Member

Joined: 2/25/09
Posts: 359

Hmm ?

9/10/13 2:35:21 PM#70
Originally posted by Bigdaddyx
Originally posted by LizardEgypt
Originally posted by Bigdaddyx
Originally posted by LizardEgypt

 

You're missing a lot of the point I think. I've had a great deal of enjoyment playing the game and leveling and as much as I dislike token farming end-games, the point of this game is to do dungeons and group with people. If you dislike that, or think it is archaic, or weak, either design your own MMO or stop playing them entirely. It's possible you are playing the wrong genre, there a a massive amount of non-grindy games that don't subject you to grouping end-game farming that you don't seem to want to be a part of.

I knew sooner or later someone will come up with 'make your own MMO or stop them playing entirely' as if all MMOS are still following this old WOW gear treadmill formula. And what is even more ironic is that you are telling me that i am a missing a lot of points. And yes i have stopped playing FFXIV couple of days ago once i realised what i am faced with at 50 since i have no interest in crafting or gathering classes. I was really hoping there will be some variety at end game. But i won't deny that leveling experince was really best part of it all.

Yes MMOs have end game grinding for gear and stats but a lot of these same MMOS do not have 'just' gear grinding for end game.

A good MMO is one which gives players choices and not force them just to raid or quit. In my case i had no choice but to 'quit'. Deja Vu from Rift (even though Rift later on realised this and branched out itself in lot of various end game activities) and SWTOR? i certainly had one. Good luck to SE in keeping 300,000 concurrent players after free month is over.

The joke is still on you. I'm not happy with themepark treadmill games either, but when I sit down to play one I don't lie to myself about what my expectations are. There is literally not one other possible thing this game could have been at 50, you know what it's going to be within the first 5 levels. The state of the genre is not an excuse for your unsatisfaction or whining... especially in the first 3 weeks of this game.

Please tell me about the lies that i told myself. Why do you think i quit after leveling to 50? if i was lying to myself i would renew my sub in hope of some magic to happen or miracle patch to drop which will give a lot more choices at lvl 50. 

Also 'its been 3 weeks' excuse is weak considering it is a remake of 1.0, they had a lot of oppertunities and a second chance to make sure that this time players have lot more options in terms of gameplay other than raid or die at lvl 50. They won't be getting a third chance.

If you think my concerns about the end game at lvl 50 and missed oppertunity for the second time by SE is whining then sir i can assure you that you don't know what whining really is.Its funny that you tell me that state of genre is not an excuse for my whining but somehow it is an excuse for you to come up with a lame defence like 'its just been 3 weeks'. 

What puzzles me the most is that game companies learn nothing from past experinces. As if they live in their own bubble with no outside contact. They keep repeating same mistakes over and over again and then wonder why players are dropping faster than dead flies once free month is over.

A sub based game with nothing but raids for gear grinding at lvl 50 in year 2013? do i even need to tell you how this is going to end up in couple of months?

Yeah the genre isn't going to change until something large comes and makes it change. In the mean time a 3 week old game (reboot is irrelevant) is likely to be lacking additional content, most of the planned features are a horizon away. There are more issues with these games than the tired ancient model. As I've said. I am not a fan of the gear treadmill style of design either, but I'm also trying to play the game to enjoy adventuring through the content in front of me, and not worrying about the future of it. 

Currently playing - FF14ARR
Previous games - SWG, World of Warcraft, ShadowBane, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Darkfall, Planetside Asheron's Call, Everquest, Everquest 2, Too many.

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 5216

9/10/13 2:39:20 PM#71
Originally posted by Ayulin
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
 

Except for one thing.

There are still plenty of us who weren't done with those rides. But all the other Standard Theme parks shut down or underwent "Major renovations" and are no longer the Theme Park they once were. Now, this is the only one left under that old umbrella. This is exactly what I wanted and I don't think I am alone.

That's fine.

The point isn't whether or not that style can be enjoyed.

The point is if that style is or isn't sustainable... at least as a sub-based MMO. MMO after MMO after MMO over the last 8+ years, has proven quite empirically that "no, it isn't".

Yoshi-P is latching on to a paradigm that's all but been proven to be no bueno. Again, at least for a MMO intended to remain sub-based, and not even reliably as F2P/Hybrid.

It's fair to say that there's a population of players who will take their time and take in all that a MMO has to offer, rather than rushing through it. I'm part of that crowd.

Sadly, it seems most others aren't, and those who are, aren't numerous enough to maintain a sustainable subscriber base.

 

The only thing that has been empirically proven is that poorly designed MMOs don't deserve a subscription. This site is notorious for throwing around the term "WoW Clone" to describe failed game. But I'd say what they really failed in was to successfully clone WoW in the 1st place. Every single game that failed as a P2P game, did so because they were missing something that WoW had. Even now, WoW is changing it's direction to match the current trend and has pay the price of subscriptions for it. What has never been successfully copied was the actual formula that brought in 12M subs into the genre in the 1st place.

FF14 is not an exact copy of that formula, but it's closer to it than anything else on the market including WoW's current iteration.

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  Bigdaddyx

Elite Member

Joined: 5/24/10
Posts: 1990

9/10/13 2:46:00 PM#72
Originally posted by LizardEgypt
 

Yeah the genre isn't going to change until something large comes and makes it change. In the mean time a 3 week old game (reboot is irrelevant) is likely to be lacking additional content, most of the planned features are a horizon away. There are more issues with these games than the tired ancient model. As I've said. I am not a fan of the gear treadmill style of design either, but I'm also trying to play the game to enjoy adventuring through the content in front of me, and not worrying about the future of it. 

I disagree that reboot is irrelevant. Yoshida did many surveys on official forums and had tons of feedback and player data with him. So he had the oppertunity to grab pulse of the players and make a MMO which will be a lot more than just copy of WOW's gear treadmill at level cap.

The reason which kept me playing till lvl 50 is because i have said it multiple times that leveling is the best part of the game and once you hit 50 everything falls apart..reminds you of any other MMO? yeah just every other single themepark MMO in past.

I have lost account how many times i have heard that 'not worth continuing past free month' in forums, chat and in my FC. And i don't blame players for quitting because not everyone is into hamster wheel gear treadmil. 

 

  Hitman211

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/09/13
Posts: 53

9/10/13 2:53:59 PM#73
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by Ayulin
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
 

Except for one thing.

There are still plenty of us who weren't done with those rides. But all the other Standard Theme parks shut down or underwent "Major renovations" and are no longer the Theme Park they once were. Now, this is the only one left under that old umbrella. This is exactly what I wanted and I don't think I am alone.

That's fine.

The point isn't whether or not that style can be enjoyed.

The point is if that style is or isn't sustainable... at least as a sub-based MMO. MMO after MMO after MMO over the last 8+ years, has proven quite empirically that "no, it isn't".

Yoshi-P is latching on to a paradigm that's all but been proven to be no bueno. Again, at least for a MMO intended to remain sub-based, and not even reliably as F2P/Hybrid.

It's fair to say that there's a population of players who will take their time and take in all that a MMO has to offer, rather than rushing through it. I'm part of that crowd.

Sadly, it seems most others aren't, and those who are, aren't numerous enough to maintain a sustainable subscriber base.

 

The only thing that has been empirically proven is that poorly designed MMOs don't deserve a subscription. This site is notorious for throwing around the term "WoW Clone" to describe failed game. But I'd say what they really failed in was to successfully clone WoW in the 1st place. Every single game that failed as a P2P game, did so because they were missing something that WoW had. Even now, WoW is changing it's direction to match the current trend and has pay the price of subscriptions for it. What has never been successfully copied was the actual formula that brought in 12M subs into the genre in the 1st place.

FF14 is not an exact copy of that formula, but it's closer to it than anything else on the market including WoW's current iteration.

FFXI would like to have a word with you about that said "paradigm"

Proven to work with this IP.

Also, might want to take notice of that one game that has more sub players than most f2p games have accounts registered.

 

I agree, you cant make an average game anymore and expect people to pay a sub.

 

Also people ARE getting sick of the f2p pay model.  Tides are starting to turn away from item malls and cash grabs.

Also with p2p, if you don't spend tons of money developing a game, can be very sustainable and even profitable with a very small population.

I know many are bitter that some games exist that charge a sub...it shouldn't matter that they exist...because f2p games are way better right...and there are so many out there...why even bother arguing about it on the few p2p games when there so many better games out there for free....doesn't help strengthen the argument when the f2p crowd has to protest a p2p game in order to have  a shot at a good game for once.

  Gravarg

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 8/24/06
Posts: 3217

9/10/13 3:01:16 PM#74

You can tell people who didn't play FFXI long.  There is sooooo much more to do at 50 than just gear grind...

 

Even though you're not forced to group to level like in FFXI, the OP said it, this is still a very social oriented game.  At 50 the more friends you have, the better off you'll be.

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 5216

9/10/13 3:04:21 PM#75
Originally posted by Hitman211
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by Ayulin
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
 

Except for one thing.

There are still plenty of us who weren't done with those rides. But all the other Standard Theme parks shut down or underwent "Major renovations" and are no longer the Theme Park they once were. Now, this is the only one left under that old umbrella. This is exactly what I wanted and I don't think I am alone.

That's fine.

The point isn't whether or not that style can be enjoyed.

The point is if that style is or isn't sustainable... at least as a sub-based MMO. MMO after MMO after MMO over the last 8+ years, has proven quite empirically that "no, it isn't".

Yoshi-P is latching on to a paradigm that's all but been proven to be no bueno. Again, at least for a MMO intended to remain sub-based, and not even reliably as F2P/Hybrid.

It's fair to say that there's a population of players who will take their time and take in all that a MMO has to offer, rather than rushing through it. I'm part of that crowd.

Sadly, it seems most others aren't, and those who are, aren't numerous enough to maintain a sustainable subscriber base.

 

The only thing that has been empirically proven is that poorly designed MMOs don't deserve a subscription. This site is notorious for throwing around the term "WoW Clone" to describe failed game. But I'd say what they really failed in was to successfully clone WoW in the 1st place. Every single game that failed as a P2P game, did so because they were missing something that WoW had. Even now, WoW is changing it's direction to match the current trend and has pay the price of subscriptions for it. What has never been successfully copied was the actual formula that brought in 12M subs into the genre in the 1st place.

FF14 is not an exact copy of that formula, but it's closer to it than anything else on the market including WoW's current iteration.

FFXI would like to have a word with you about that said "paradigm"

Proven to work with this IP.

Also, might want to take notice of that one game that has more sub players than most f2p games have accounts registered.

 

I agree, you cant make an average game anymore and expect people to pay a sub.

 

Also people ARE getting sick of the f2p pay model.  Tides are starting to turn away from item malls and cash grabs.

Also with p2p, if you don't spend tons of money developing a game, can be very sustainable and even profitable with a very small population.

I know many are bitter that some games exist that charge a sub...it shouldn't matter that they exist...because f2p games are way better right...and there are so many out there...why even bother arguing about it on the few p2p games when there so many better games out there for free....doesn't help strengthen the argument when the f2p crowd has to protest a p2p game in order to have  a shot at a good game for once.

I think you have missed my point  or maybe I wasn't clear. I am making a case for FF14 to be a successful sub based game. Not to be included in the list of failed P2P attempts.

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  Bigdaddyx

Elite Member

Joined: 5/24/10
Posts: 1990

9/10/13 3:05:59 PM#76
Originally posted by Gravarg
You can tell people who didn't play FFXI long.  There is sooooo much more to do at 50 than just gear grind...

Played FF XI a lot actually. But thanks for assuming and generalising. Yes we know you can level multiple classes / jobs there is crafting and gathering. What else is there? yeah chasing shiny gear with awesome stats.

The novelty wears off once you level atleast two classes. Once you start with third you would rather spend more time with your lvl 50 but then you realise all you got is raid and die. And not everyone is into crafting and gathering. So only other option is to quit.

  Makidian

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/28/13
Posts: 207

9/10/13 3:11:17 PM#77

Anyone who just ain't feeling FF, try Darkfall UW, huge open world sandbox, just a suggestion...

  obsolete5

Novice Member

Joined: 8/19/13
Posts: 83

9/10/13 3:11:43 PM#78
there has been an official SE post that they will be reducing repair costs and cost of dark matter, as well as adding in an 'average item level' displayed on character screen , and this level will need to be at a certain level to do high level content
  Hitman211

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/09/13
Posts: 53

9/10/13 3:12:17 PM#79
Originally posted by Gravarg

You can tell people who didn't play FFXI long.  There is sooooo much more to do at 50 than just gear grind...

 

Even though you're not forced to group to level like in FFXI, the OP said it, this is still a very social oriented game.  At 50 the more friends you have, the better off you'll be.

Agreed.

It seems like a lot of people wrote the game off before hitting 20, which is fine.  The game certainly appeals to one type of crowd and is going to upset another because of it.

Im also seeing a lot of complaints regarding game play based on the optional way to progress.  People think farming fates is the best way to level up...its not the best way, perhaps fastest way however...you are putting yourself at an endgame disadvantage racing though levels on fates...as well as netting you nearly no GIL...and no gear.  Not to mention you skip out on a great story.

You level up fast enough your first class though...why not do it in a manner that's the most enjoyable, rather than the most efficient way to gain levels and the most boring method?  Some will prefer fate farming though...I get that..just for those who hate it...why continue to play the game like that?

 

If you ask me, if you wanted a game with quick progression, no farming, no real progression, and nothing but dynamic events...well they got this game that specializes in that...this isn't that type of game, and it wont be. They don't hide what type of game this is trying to be either.

  Husvik

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/21/05
Posts: 447

Having fun who cares.

9/10/13 3:15:54 PM#80

Race to cap like your life depended on it, mindlessly grind gear, only to have it rendered useless in next xpac.

or

Don't race to top, enjoy the journey, and enjoy the gear in next xpac if your there by the time the xpac comes out.

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