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Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn

Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn 

General Discussion  » Dungeon GRINDER for Tokens: Let the gear grind games begin!

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91 posts found
  hikaru77

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/28/07
Posts: 1017

9/09/13 10:30:16 PM#21
Originally posted by gessekai332
Originally posted by time007
Originally posted by Utinni
The endgame of all MMO's is a gear grind. Even in open pvp games you are typically fighting over a resource that pertains to gear. 

WRONG.  What about DAOC?  all means every game.  I just named one that isn't a gear grind.  What about Darkfall?  Well anyways the list goes on to prove that not all MMO's endgame is a gear grind.

 

somebody grew up playing WoW

congratulations you just discovered what the endgame is like for a game that just launched and has not even had one expansion pack yet. 

 

why don't u just relax, bro. 

Sorry but, FFXIV is not a ¨new MMO¨, Did you remember about 1.0 release a few years ago?. Atm the FFXIV endgame is a joke, even worse than GW2, and that was a game without endgame but with PvP at least.  Sure, they have a content update incoming, but when?.

  Hitman211

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/09/13
Posts: 53

9/09/13 10:46:13 PM#22
Originally posted by hikaru77
Originally posted by gessekai332
Originally posted by time007
Originally posted by Utinni
The endgame of all MMO's is a gear grind. Even in open pvp games you are typically fighting over a resource that pertains to gear. 

WRONG.  What about DAOC?  all means every game.  I just named one that isn't a gear grind.  What about Darkfall?  Well anyways the list goes on to prove that not all MMO's endgame is a gear grind.

 

somebody grew up playing WoW

congratulations you just discovered what the endgame is like for a game that just launched and has not even had one expansion pack yet. 

 

why don't u just relax, bro. 

Sorry but, FFXIV is not a ¨new MMO¨, Did you remember about 1.0 release a few years ago?. Atm the FFXIV endgame is a joke, even worse than GW2, and that was a game without endgame but with PvP at least.  Sure, they have a content update incoming, but when?.

Well aside from a  completely different game engine, and the world being remade, and how you level being remade, and the combat remade, graphics were improved.. I think even the music and story was remade.

So yeah same game in name but might want to look up why people keep saying its a new mmo rather than assuming they put a really good band aid on the older game.

It is a new game.

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

9/09/13 10:59:28 PM#23

So all of your possible responses to avoid this 'grind' all involve quitting and buying the next box?

I'm genuinely curious, op. You've boldly and faithfully reported this heinous crime against gamerdom. What next?

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Ppiper

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/08/13
Posts: 666

9/09/13 11:01:41 PM#24
it's only been a few weeks. Give it some time to evolve. I don't get what the rush is. I'm still trying to beat Titan SM at level 40. If  I don't, I don;t. There are so many avenues to explore, I haven't even begun. The game is what you make of it, you define it, it doesn't define you.
  Telondariel

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/11/10
Posts: 925

9/09/13 11:19:44 PM#25
Originally posted by LacedOpium

 

What I really find amazing is the patience of so many posters in their attempts to try to explain to these content locusts, who haven't the slightest concept of what an MMORPG is supposed to deliver, or how one is to be played, the finer points of how to successfully play, and enjoy, an MMORPG.  All these content locusts do is rush to end game and then once there, they do nothing but complain.  Their complaints are varied but their more popular complaints range from "I'm max level, so what do I do now?" to " I'm bored there is nothing to do," and of course the one involved in this thread, "Yes there is something to do but it's too hard or its grindy."  It's always some wishy-washy complaint that has nothing to do with the game and everything to do with the fact that they haven't the slightest idea of what playing in an MMORPG entails.  You simply can not satisfy these people.  Quit trying to convince them to stay.  Let them go.  I guarantee you the community will be better off for it. 

 

Here's a clue for the clueless:  An MMORPG is about community.  It is about making friends and forming bonds.  For the most, you will make friends and form bonds in your journey to end game.  Once there, this so called gear grind is simply the mechanism that will encourage  and enable you to team and enjoy those friendships and strong bonds.  It is not about you, and what you want, or how fast you can get it.  It is all a social exercise.  That is the joy of MMORPGs. 

 

I'm one of those perpetual explorers who can play a game for years and never get a max level character.  I dilly-dally, create alts, craft, travel around and stick my nose into areas that hasn't been trodden to death by the masses.  When sales resume I intend to do the same thing here.

  Hitman211

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/09/13
Posts: 53

9/09/13 11:38:19 PM#26
Originally posted by Telondariel
Originally posted by LacedOpium

 

What I really find amazing is the patience of so many posters in their attempts to try to explain to these content locusts, who haven't the slightest concept of what an MMORPG is supposed to deliver, or how one is to be played, the finer points of how to successfully play, and enjoy, an MMORPG.  All these content locusts do is rush to end game and then once there, they do nothing but complain.  Their complaints are varied but their more popular complaints range from "I'm max level, so what do I do now?" to " I'm bored there is nothing to do," and of course the one involved in this thread, "Yes there is something to do but it's too hard or its grindy."  It's always some wishy-washy complaint that has nothing to do with the game and everything to do with the fact that they haven't the slightest idea of what playing in an MMORPG entails.  You simply can not satisfy these people.  Quit trying to convince them to stay.  Let them go.  I guarantee you the community will be better off for it. 

 

Here's a clue for the clueless:  An MMORPG is about community.  It is about making friends and forming bonds.  For the most, you will make friends and form bonds in your journey to end game.  Once there, this so called gear grind is simply the mechanism that will encourage  and enable you to team and enjoy those friendships and strong bonds.  It is not about you, and what you want, or how fast you can get it.  It is all a social exercise.  That is the joy of MMORPGs. 

 

I'm one of those perpetual explorers who can play a game for years and never get a max level character.  I dilly-dally, create alts, craft, travel around and stick my nose into areas that hasn't been trodden to death by the masses.  When sales resume I intend to do the same thing here.

Excellent post +1

 

  tort0429

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/13/09
Posts: 296

9/09/13 11:45:01 PM#27
Originally posted by LacedOpium

 

What I really find amazing is the patience of so many posters in their attempts to try to explain to these content locusts, who haven't the slightest concept of what an MMORPG is supposed to deliver, or how one is to be played, the finer points of how to successfully play, and enjoy, an MMORPG.  All these content locusts do is rush to end game and then once there, they do nothing but complain.  Their complaints are varied but their more popular complaints range from "I'm max level, so what do I do now?" to " I'm bored there is nothing to do," and of course the one involved in this thread, "Yes there is something to do but it's too hard or its grindy."  It's always some wishy-washy complaint that has nothing to do with the game and everything to do with the fact that they haven't the slightest idea of what playing in an MMORPG entails.  You simply can not satisfy these people.  Quit trying to convince them to stay.  Let them go.  I guarantee you the community will be better off for it. 

 

Here's a clue for the clueless:  An MMORPG is about community.  It is about making friends and forming bonds.  For the most, you will make friends and form bonds in your journey to end game.  Once there, this so called gear grind is simply the mechanism that will encourage  and enable you to team and enjoy those friendships and strong bonds.  It is not about you, and what you want, or how fast you can get it.  It is all a social exercise.  That is the joy of MMORPGs. 

Here here!!!  Well said indeed.

  tort0429

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/13/09
Posts: 296

9/09/13 11:48:12 PM#28
Originally posted by Wizardry

Haha i can just imagine if some of the players that rush through and want everything easy would have played vanilla FFXI,they would have went ballistic.

I will try to spell out a few things on what i have heard for rants.

1 I blame both gamer and developer,gamer's are not playing these like a rpg or a mmo,they are playing them like a single player game with something to beat.

2 Square tries even more in FFXI to make some items RARE,if there is no effort to getting something,then it won't be rare and MANY gamer's like to be unique or have that RARE item.I do not believe for one second that you need a fully geared pug to take down a boss,there  had to have been groups do it that had yet to have the gear.The problem is that too many gamer's strive for the EASY route,they want that perfect group and everyone with the best gear so they can make it easy.

3 This is for those that constantly think they need pvp.Pvp has ONE notion to game play,to COMPETE versus other players.WHY the need to compete,role play gaming does NOT have to have people competing against each other.PVE is designed to have people get along and work together instead of against other,why is this concept so hard to understand?

I think it should be pretty darn easy to understand that designing a game to have people work together is a LOT better than against each other.I think the problem is so many gamer's look at ONLY the ME factor and don't realize what is best f or a game.

The PURPOSE is to have fun,if you are calling something a grind,then obviously you are not having fun and instead are expecting fast gratification to FAKE or mask the word fun.

 

Holy crappola!!  This thread has the best responses I've read in a long time.  Well written again!!!

  Kayo45

Novice Member

Joined: 7/01/13
Posts: 296

9/09/13 11:48:24 PM#29
I for one miss RNG. These token things are just stupid. Its like giving the losers a trophy for participation. "Aww poor Timmy didnt get his reward this time, lets switch to tokens so he can feel like he accomplished something." Sucks that FFXIV is doing the same. Oh well.

OP: Try playing the game for fun, not gear. I for one never gave a rats ass about getting all the gear immidiately and always seem to enjoy most MMO end games more than those like you seem to be. You dont want to run Garuda for the 50th time? Do something else. Nothing fun to do? Quit for a few months. Its really not that complicated.
  User Deleted
9/10/13 12:01:44 AM#30

I'll be happily crafting, gathering, socializing with other players in chat around me, taking my time with the main storyline, maybe a little fishing, summer event just started, level up my chocobo, explore some vistas, take some screenies, zerg some fates, find a cool outfit for RP...

you want to shout "gear grind!" from the rooftops? go ahead if it makes you feel better. I'll shout from the rooftops "who cares!" if you like playing that forum game.

Anyway OP, good luck in your next mmo endeavor.

  Ridelynn

Elite Member

Joined: 12/19/10
Posts: 3666

9/10/13 12:19:43 AM#31

Here's another thread, about another dude bitching about something he/she doesn't like in another game.

Who cares. Adds nor subtracts anything from my own perception of the game.

Moving on.

  Dreamo84

Defender of Worlds

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 3189

I actually still like MMORPGs

9/10/13 12:26:31 AM#32
My question is: Why do you need the gear you get from the tokens? Is there something you're going to be using it for, or is it just to have it?

  Swedish_Chef

Novice Member

Joined: 8/26/13
Posts: 225

Bort bort bort!

9/10/13 1:47:14 AM#33
Originally posted by Bigdaddyx
Originally posted by Hitman211
Originally posted by Bigdaddyx
Originally posted by Utinni
The endgame of all MMO's is a gear grind. Even in open pvp games you are typically fighting over a resource that pertains to gear. 

Not all. And FFXIV type of gear grind is the worst. Spend months to get what you need just to be rendered useless with new set of armor in an expac. Rine and repeat. The laziest and cheapest way to keep players subbed. Such an archaic model for end game.

Whats wrong with people liking this kind of endgame content?

 

Why do you need all the gear in game ASAP?  What does it matter if they then release more content?

 

Im not getting this tbh, and it seems a mentality that should be foreign to mmorpg forums.

 

its not an archaic model, I would take it over a game that offered me all the games gear right off the bat....which seems to be what some want...then what?

Grind stuff for fun I take it?  Quit and move on?  What exactly do you want out of endgame for a mmorpg? 

 

I can tell you already that quite a few games give you everything on a silver platter come endgame, and then offer you....well you can do those dungeons again for nothing, or pvp, you can queue for pvp till the sun burns out.

 

Why cant there be a game like this for people who want it without people trying to convince them that they infact should hate this type of endgame?  Want no end game progression they already have 50 games like that, most don't play them very long and move on...

Next time try to read properly and understand what i was trying to say and i will reply to you. Currently the wall of text you wrote has nothing to do with what i wrote.

Not even once i said anything about handing gear to people on silver platter or wanting the gear in game asap. Nice strawmans though.

Actually, it does. Or rather, you implied a great deal of the points he addressed.

Complaining about spending months to get what you need most certainly implies that you're unhappy with the amount of time obtaining gear takes. Granted this isn't the same thing as saying outright that you want gear 'on a silver platter', but it's really not that much of a stretch to read it that fashion.

You call the model archaic, cheap, and lazy. Sorry, but it's clear as day that you feel there is something wrong with the model itself and (though it's a bit of a stretch here) the type of people who enjoy it. I will also point out that he asked what you would prefer in place of said model, yet instead of responding to his question (which most certainly was related to your post) you insult his reading comprehension & accuse him of making strawman arguments.

Perhaps next time you could clarify your statement a bit more instead of dismissing him outright. I'll agree that there are several assumptions made on his part, but hardly anything calling for insults and / or derision on your part.

I'll also add that if you think his post is a 'wall of text', then you and I have very different ideas of what that term means.

 

ANYWAY, to address the topic at hand: If the content to be repeated is interesting & fun, then I don't have a problem with grinding, or even repeatedly wiping for that matter. Some of my fondest memories of WoW involve myself & my guild mates wiping over, and over, and OVER again while trying to do the heroics contained within Auchindoun. Had an absolute blast doing it, and finally beating them really felt like an accomplishment. A shame all people seem to want to do today is watch a walkthrough on Youtube & rush through the content. There's so little feeling of accomplishment doing things that way.

Tokens are a far superior system to boss drops, IMO. It can be quite frustrating to run a boss a dozen times, only for the item you want / need to either not drop, or be 'won' by someone else (especially when it's for one of their alts, grrr). With a token based system that frustration is removed and the content can be enjoyed much more without that added source of stress. My dream system would use a token system for gear, but still have the boss drop items such as trophies, cosmetic apparel, rare home furnishings, etc. Best of both worlds.

  RelytDnegel

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/13/10
Posts: 260

Common sense isn't

9/10/13 2:08:06 AM#34
You see the thing about FFXIV is that you can only get 300 tomes towards the top tier gear a week, so once you get that 300 (which isn't overly difficult) you can chill and do stuff that you enjoy rather than just grinding. I quite like this system because it does keep people from destroying all the content within a couple weeks and allows you to do things you enjoy rather than thinking that you have to do certain things every time you log in.

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  SpottyGekko

Elite Member

Joined: 9/26/04
Posts: 3175

9/10/13 3:20:07 AM#35

The OP is not an MMO "content locust", he is a power-leveller.

 

Locusts eat everything in sight, then move on when they've stripped the vegetation. In MMO terms, that would imply doing ALL the content between L1 and level-cap.

The OP and people like him do only the content that gives the most XP per hour. If jumping on the spot was the quickest way to level, they would do that for 72 hours straight. Their "high" is watching the level indicator increasing, the moment the counter stops changing, they hit a massive downer.

At that point they will find any excuse imaginable to leave the game. They will complain that it's too grindy, or there's nothing to do, or the stuff that is there is too boring, or they're forced to group to achieve anything, or the game has no group content, or whatever you can think of.

 

Power-leveller's are always the first to complain, and the loudest. It's their way of announcing that they've "beaten the game" and won the race to level-cap. Humor them, because that brief week or two is the only pleasure they ever get from playing a game, whereas many of us can play for months or years with great enjoyment.

 

  Scrangos

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/05
Posts: 5

9/10/13 4:38:13 AM#36
Originally posted by SpottyGekko

The OP is not an MMO "content locust", he is a power-leveller.

 

Locusts eat everything in sight, then move on when they've stripped the vegetation. In MMO terms, that would imply doing ALL the content between L1 and level-cap.

The OP and people like him do only the content that gives the most XP per hour. If jumping on the spot was the quickest way to level, they would do that for 72 hours straight. Their "high" is watching the level indicator increasing, the moment the counter stops changing, they hit a massive downer.

At that point they will find any excuse imaginable to leave the game. They will complain that it's too grindy, or there's nothing to do, or the stuff that is there is too boring, or they're forced to group to achieve anything, or the game has no group content, or whatever you can think of.

 

Power-leveller's are always the first to complain, and the loudest. It's their way of announcing that they've "beaten the game" and won the race to level-cap. Humor them, because that brief week or two is the only pleasure they ever get from playing a game, whereas many of us can play for months or years with great enjoyment.

 

This, so much this.  

  Arskaaa

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/15/06
Posts: 707

Your chararacter gains experience and levels up, defining a role playing game.

9/10/13 4:45:44 AM#37

There is only 1, yes 1 dungeon in game that give really decent tokens and its Amdapor keep.

u do that same effin dungeon all time. in wow u had least 6 or more instance to farm tokens but in tis game only 1... its pathetic! 3 year remake tis game and not allow others 50 lvl dungeons drop tokens? devs have no clue.

 

talk about 0.4 sec delay in titan hard fight...

combat response is slow.

  Murugan

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/18/08
Posts: 1572

9/10/13 4:57:26 AM#38
Originally posted by Fendel84M
My question is: Why do you need the gear you get from the tokens? Is there something you're going to be using it for, or is it just to have it?

You need it for harder content like later Relic quest fights (titan) and Bahamut's Coil if you are planning to progress that far, which is totally optional.

 

Also there are a number of dungeons that drop tokens, Castrum, Praetorium, Wanderer's Palace, all the hard primals drop some, and some of the other level 40 dungeons drop them but at a lesser rate.  Keep is ran because it is the most efficient and gives the most mythology tombstones (which are capped weekly at 300).

 

Also bahamut's give tombstones, but people do not run it for tombstone farming because it is too hard if you aren't already gearing up elsewhere (also requires all primals to be beaten which most people struggle with without a good deal of darklight gear).

 

Can't say I'm particularly happy with this system.  However, Amdapor Keep is an excellent training dungeon preparing people for harder stuff.  So I think much like the lower level dungeons, this is all as designed to teach a majority of players how to play competently.  I'd say it is working.

 

So if I have to sacrifice currency grind (my least favorite PvE experience) in order to have a better, more broader base endgame community then I'm all for it.  I don't think anyone here can deny that endgame in most modern MMO's is a total headache because the lack of skill checks prior to it so you end up with a bunch of "noobs" who don't know how to play the game.  This game fixes that issue.

 

Pretty much everything in FFXIV seems designed to be community oriented, and to improve the community.  There definitely are a few anti-social ubernerds, especially in duty finder and some random pugs but hopefully they get lost quick.  Learning to play FFXIV well is far easier than learning not to be a complete dick to others in an online space.

 

Originally posted by Arskaaa

There is only 1, yes 1 dungeon in game that give really decent tokens and its Amdapor keep.

u do that same effin dungeon all time. in wow u had least 6 or more instance to farm tokens but in tis game only 1... its pathetic! 3 year remake tis game and not allow others 50 lvl dungeons drop tokens? devs have no clue.

 

talk about 0.4 sec delay in titan hard fight...

combat response is slow.

That's all on you buddy.  Excuses excuses.  I have a Kiwi in my FC and several people playing from Hawaii to the Montreal servers and none of them have anything close to a .4 sec delay.

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http://guildwork.com/users/murugan

  JeroKane

Elite Member

Joined: 2/21/06
Posts: 5352

9/10/13 5:10:19 AM#39

Well said Murugan!  Some People, like the OP, are just complaining for the sake of complaining. It´s getting tiresome.

 

They are the typical crowd that races to the cap and then want everything as fast as possible, so they can complain there is no more content and move on to the Next game!  Typical Instant gratification crowd!

 

Here is a Nice topic With a Complete endgame guide: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/81150-Endgame-Guide-(WIP)

 

 

  Kajidourden

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/20/13
Posts: 314

9/10/13 7:27:12 AM#40
Originally posted by Scrangos
Originally posted by SpottyGekko

The OP is not an MMO "content locust", he is a power-leveller.

 

Locusts eat everything in sight, then move on when they've stripped the vegetation. In MMO terms, that would imply doing ALL the content between L1 and level-cap.

The OP and people like him do only the content that gives the most XP per hour. If jumping on the spot was the quickest way to level, they would do that for 72 hours straight. Their "high" is watching the level indicator increasing, the moment the counter stops changing, they hit a massive downer.

At that point they will find any excuse imaginable to leave the game. They will complain that it's too grindy, or there's nothing to do, or the stuff that is there is too boring, or they're forced to group to achieve anything, or the game has no group content, or whatever you can think of.

 

Power-leveller's are always the first to complain, and the loudest. It's their way of announcing that they've "beaten the game" and won the race to level-cap. Humor them, because that brief week or two is the only pleasure they ever get from playing a game, whereas many of us can play for months or years with great enjoyment.

 

This, so much this.  

+1

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