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Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn

Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn 

General Discussion  » F2P and P2P : A quirky side argument

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36 posts found
  kaz350

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/11/10
Posts: 56

 
OP  9/08/13 9:21:22 AM#1

F2P games normally have cash shops filled with "vanity" items that you "dont need"  or dont affect gameplay so they say.

 

I just want to say...I have tons of minions (pets) in FF14....there is no way in hell if FF14 was a F2P game would I have ever paid a dime for any of them.

But since they are included in my sub, I love them, I collect them....they acutally put a smile on my face while I'm adventuring....

Who says these items dont affect gameplay??

 

Long live Pay to Play.

  Electro057

Novice Member

Joined: 3/05/09
Posts: 537

9/08/13 9:26:11 AM#2
To each their own really......I  can't argue for either side, as I can see pros and cons in both F2P and P2P. I do support P2P more because I believe that model expects some measure of quality and attention....whereas F2P is free, so I expect less quality in those games. But each model has it's place and time...

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  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 6144

9/08/13 9:30:04 AM#3

To me it makes no difference what the pay model is - if i like a feature in a gsme, I like it regardless if it were F2P or P2P.

Minions and pets - never cared for them in any game (sub or f2p), so again to me the payment model has zero influence.

I think gameplay stands on its own, if the game is a fun and worth playing - that's what will get me playing, pay model is completely secondary and ultimately of little relevance to me.

Where the pay model comes into play is longevity and replay - I am a lot less likely to resub to a P2P game once I leave, example I stopped playing WoW in 2005 and never went back.

But F2P or B2P games, I am much more likely to revisit from time to time.

  reploidx

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/15/05
Posts: 318

9/08/13 9:36:38 AM#4
I like paying for vanity Items if I can put it over my gear and it makes my character look like a badass from the time of purchase. My fiance on the other hand would buy all the minions if they are cute because she likes pets in games, also mounts.
  Loktofeit

Novice Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12401

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

9/08/13 10:54:09 AM#5
Originally posted by kaz350

F2P games normally have cash shops filled with "vanity" items that you "dont need"  or dont affect gameplay so they say.

 

I just want to say...I have tons of minions (pets) in FF14....there is no way in hell if FF14 was a F2P game would I have ever paid a dime for any of them.

But since they are included in my sub, I love them, I collect them....they acutally put a smile on my face while I'm adventuring....

Who says these items dont affect gameplay??

It all depends on the design of the game. Dragon's Prophet is a great example of that. You have to capture the dragons, not buy them. If the dragons could be bought, it would diminish gameplay. However, in some other games the pets are cosmetic and not intended as collection gameplay, so having them in the store doesn't affect gameplay.

 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  Ikeda

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/07/10
Posts: 2048

9/08/13 11:02:45 AM#6
Yea but I really didn't like Dragon's Prophet and buying different sets COULD buy you exclusive dragons....

SWTOR: F2P or Premium? Want Galactic Strongholds early? http://www.swtor.com/r/LbMdN7 Use the referral for 7 days of subscriber access. Unlock your GS today!

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 6022

9/08/13 11:35:56 AM#7
Originally posted by kaz350

F2P games normally have cash shops filled with "vanity" items that you "dont need"  or dont affect gameplay so they say.

I just want to say...I have tons of minions (pets) in FF14....there is no way in hell if FF14 was a F2P game would I have ever paid a dime for any of them.

But since they are included in my sub, I love them, I collect them....they acutally put a smile on my face while I'm adventuring....

Who says these items dont affect gameplay??

Long live Pay to Play.

You like to rent your minions monthly. There is  no way in hell I would pay a box fee and then a monthly rental to collect minions I get to pay rent on monthly.  I don't like to rent my games or the minions therein.

Long live you renting your games and long live me not renting the games I play.

Curse you AquaScum!

  Loktofeit

Novice Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12401

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

9/08/13 11:58:44 AM#8
Originally posted by Ikeda
Yea but I really didn't like Dragon's Prophet and buying different sets COULD buy you exclusive dragons....

What MMO you like is irrelevant to the discussion. Yes, there were some dragons you could buy in the preorder set, neither of which were above or beyond anything you can get in game.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  thinktank001

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/13/08
Posts: 1941

9/08/13 12:55:56 PM#9
Originally posted by kaz350

Who says these items dont affect gameplay??

 

They really are not vanity items, but supremacy goods that lead to microtransaction games being P2W.   However, from an emotional standpoint most players don't view them as being " unfair ", and that is why developers can get away with calling them vanity items.   You just have a much lower threshold for cash shop " fairness " than most players.  

 

I don't think anyone ever denied that they don't effect gameplay, but that they are much less relevant if compared to a cash consumable that buffs a character.

 

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 5071

9/08/13 2:45:29 PM#10
Originally posted by kaz350

F2P games normally have cash shops filled with "vanity" items that you "dont need"  or dont affect gameplay so they say.

 

I just want to say...I have tons of minions (pets) in FF14....there is no way in hell if FF14 was a F2P game would I have ever paid a dime for any of them.

But since they are included in my sub, I love them, I collect them....they acutally put a smile on my face while I'm adventuring....

Who says these items dont affect gameplay??

 

Long live Pay to Play.

Thing is, you know when you see someone else with them, they have done exactly what you did to get them. They remain a status symbol with in the game. Regardless of who and who is not impressed by them, they are still achievements in their own right.

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  Aldous.Huxley

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/04/13
Posts: 443

9/08/13 2:52:34 PM#11
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by kaz350

F2P games normally have cash shops filled with "vanity" items that you "dont need"  or dont affect gameplay so they say.

I just want to say...I have tons of minions (pets) in FF14....there is no way in hell if FF14 was a F2P game would I have ever paid a dime for any of them.

But since they are included in my sub, I love them, I collect them....they acutally put a smile on my face while I'm adventuring....

Who says these items dont affect gameplay??

Long live Pay to Play.

You like to rent your minions monthly. There is  no way in hell I would pay a box fee and then a monthly rental to collect minions I get to pay rent on monthly.  I don't like to rent my games or the minions therein.

Long live you renting your games and long live me not renting the games I play.

I'm with the OP on this one. I would much rather pay rent for an apartment on Park Ave than live for free at the homeless shelter.

 

Everyone's standards are different though. /shrug

  Kayo45

Novice Member

Joined: 7/01/13
Posts: 296

9/08/13 3:27:43 PM#12
Exactly! Agree 100% with OP. Thats the best part about a good p2p game. You want something, you find out what you need to do and go get. Even if its just a common minion you need to buy with in game gold you still played the game to get it. F2P? You want something just open up the cash shop, pay real money for it, then pick it up at a mailbox. How anyone can see f2p as more fun is beyond me. Only thing that makes sense to me is that theyre cheap freeloaders who would glady sacrifice one of the best aspects of an MMO just so they can get a (mostly) free ride.
  echolynfan

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/26/10
Posts: 726

I ain't got a gat but I gotta soldering gun

9/08/13 9:41:24 PM#13
Originally posted by Aldous.Huxley
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by kaz350

F2P games normally have cash shops filled with "vanity" items that you "dont need"  or dont affect gameplay so they say.

I just want to say...I have tons of minions (pets) in FF14....there is no way in hell if FF14 was a F2P game would I have ever paid a dime for any of them.

But since they are included in my sub, I love them, I collect them....they acutally put a smile on my face while I'm adventuring....

Who says these items dont affect gameplay??

Long live Pay to Play.

You like to rent your minions monthly. There is  no way in hell I would pay a box fee and then a monthly rental to collect minions I get to pay rent on monthly.  I don't like to rent my games or the minions therein.

Long live you renting your games and long live me not renting the games I play.

I'm with the OP on this one. I would much rather pay rent for an apartment on Park Ave than live for free at the homeless shelter.

 

Everyone's standards are different though. /shrug

This ^

Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 6022

9/09/13 12:10:58 AM#14
Originally posted by echolynfan
Originally posted by Aldous.Huxley
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by kaz350

F2P games normally have cash shops filled with "vanity" items that you "dont need"  or dont affect gameplay so they say.

I just want to say...I have tons of minions (pets) in FF14....there is no way in hell if FF14 was a F2P game would I have ever paid a dime for any of them.

But since they are included in my sub, I love them, I collect them....they acutally put a smile on my face while I'm adventuring....

Who says these items dont affect gameplay??

Long live Pay to Play.

You like to rent your minions monthly. There is  no way in hell I would pay a box fee and then a monthly rental to collect minions I get to pay rent on monthly.  I don't like to rent my games or the minions therein.

Long live you renting your games and long live me not renting the games I play.

I'm with the OP on this one. I would much rather pay rent for an apartment on Park Ave than live for free at the homeless shelter.

 

Everyone's standards are different though. /shrug

This ^

lol, yeah. That's a compelling argument. Either someone has never been a landowner or someone isn't being honest. If you want to pay another person's mortgage for them go ahead.

Like I said long live you renting and and long live me being an owner.  I don't begrudge you renting, but your perfect solution doesn't fit me.

Curse you AquaScum!

  TheCrow2k

Novice Member

Joined: 10/19/09
Posts: 956

9/09/13 12:27:04 AM#15
Originally posted by kaz350

F2P games normally have cash shops filled with "vanity" items that you "dont need"  or dont affect gameplay so they say.

 

I just want to say...I have tons of minions (pets) in FF14....there is no way in hell if FF14 was a F2P game would I have ever paid a dime for any of them.

But since they are included in my sub, I love them, I collect them....they acutally put a smile on my face while I'm adventuring....

Who says these items dont affect gameplay??

 

Long live Pay to Play.

 

Lol to each their own. I have pets in 2 microtrans games at the moment & I barely even bother to get them out despite the fact that one titles pets actually help in a meaningful way, in one title I've had the fortune to win 3 pets & 2 pets I haven't activated ever. TBH pets are generally of no interest to me in MMO's unless the character I am playing is a pet class. Ultimately none of this is really relevant to a sub vs microtrans mmo debate.
  LacedOpium

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/22/12
Posts: 485

9/09/13 12:30:30 AM#16
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by echolynfan
Originally posted by Aldous.Huxley
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by kaz350

F2P games normally have cash shops filled with "vanity" items that you "dont need"  or dont affect gameplay so they say.

I just want to say...I have tons of minions (pets) in FF14....there is no way in hell if FF14 was a F2P game would I have ever paid a dime for any of them.

But since they are included in my sub, I love them, I collect them....they acutally put a smile on my face while I'm adventuring....

Who says these items dont affect gameplay??

Long live Pay to Play.

You like to rent your minions monthly. There is  no way in hell I would pay a box fee and then a monthly rental to collect minions I get to pay rent on monthly.  I don't like to rent my games or the minions therein.

Long live you renting your games and long live me not renting the games I play.

I'm with the OP on this one. I would much rather pay rent for an apartment on Park Ave than live for free at the homeless shelter.

 

Everyone's standards are different though. /shrug

This ^

lol, yeah. That's a compelling argument. Either someone has never been a landowner or someone isn't being honest. If you want to pay another person's mortgage for them go ahead.

Like I said long live you renting and and long live me being an owner.  I don't begrudge you renting, but your perfect solution doesn't fit me.

 

What exactly do you own, pray tell?  In F2P games you are no more an owner than the next free loader.  If you were really an owner, you could tell the other players to get off your property, but that isn't the case, is it?  In F2P games, you are essentially living for free.  If an analogy must be made, whereas he is renting in Park Avenue, you are living in the projects, and guess what?  Not everybody chooses to live in the projects, even though there ... you can live rent free.

Prettying-up wrong by dressing it up as opinion does not negate the fact that it is still wrong.

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 5071

9/09/13 1:01:49 AM#17
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by echolynfan
Originally posted by Aldous.Huxley
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by kaz350

F2P games normally have cash shops filled with "vanity" items that you "dont need"  or dont affect gameplay so they say.

I just want to say...I have tons of minions (pets) in FF14....there is no way in hell if FF14 was a F2P game would I have ever paid a dime for any of them.

But since they are included in my sub, I love them, I collect them....they acutally put a smile on my face while I'm adventuring....

Who says these items dont affect gameplay??

Long live Pay to Play.

You like to rent your minions monthly. There is  no way in hell I would pay a box fee and then a monthly rental to collect minions I get to pay rent on monthly.  I don't like to rent my games or the minions therein.

Long live you renting your games and long live me not renting the games I play.

I'm with the OP on this one. I would much rather pay rent for an apartment on Park Ave than live for free at the homeless shelter.

 

Everyone's standards are different though. /shrug

This ^

lol, yeah. That's a compelling argument. Either someone has never been a landowner or someone isn't being honest. If you want to pay another person's mortgage for them go ahead.

Like I said long live you renting and and long live me being an owner.  I don't begrudge you renting, but your perfect solution doesn't fit me.

This is a video game, not home ownership. We pay subscriptions, not rent. It's an ongoing game, it has ongoing expenses to maintain. I pay for that and It good that way.

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  SpottyGekko

Elite Member

Joined: 9/26/04
Posts: 3064

9/09/13 1:23:22 AM#18
Originally posted by kaz350

F2P games normally have cash shops filled with "vanity" items that you "dont need"  or dont affect gameplay so they say.

 

I just want to say...I have tons of minions (pets) in FF14....there is no way in hell if FF14 was a F2P game would I have ever paid a dime for any of them.

But since they are included in my sub, I love them, I collect them....they acutally put a smile on my face while I'm adventuring....

Who says these items dont affect gameplay??

 

Long live Pay to Play.

100%

 

Half the fun fun in MMO's for me is the "cosmetic stuff". The pets, clothes, dyes, furniture, mounts, etc. Those are the nice little quirks that provide "quality of life".

In all MMO's, I can kill stuff and reach level cap. Yawn... But not all of those games make the journey fun and colourful.

 

Often, earning those little perks is part of the actual game play in P2P MMO's. In F2P games, earning them ingame is usually a monumental grind, because they are "cosmetic" and the developers want to "encourage" you to buy them instantly via the "convenience" of the Cash Shop.

 

Long live games like FFXIV, where there are loads of "extra's" that I can enjoy for a flat monthly fee.

  Cod_Eye

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/04/09
Posts: 1024

9/09/13 3:24:21 AM#19
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by kaz350

F2P games normally have cash shops filled with "vanity" items that you "dont need"  or dont affect gameplay so they say.

I just want to say...I have tons of minions (pets) in FF14....there is no way in hell if FF14 was a F2P game would I have ever paid a dime for any of them.

But since they are included in my sub, I love them, I collect them....they acutally put a smile on my face while I'm adventuring....

Who says these items dont affect gameplay??

Long live Pay to Play.

You like to rent your minions monthly. There is  no way in hell I would pay a box fee and then a monthly rental to collect minions I get to pay rent on monthly.  I don't like to rent my games or the minions therein.

Long live you renting your games and long live me not renting the games I play.

Paying 10 20 30 bucks for items will never be yours in f2p aswell but attached to your account, as is the free minions which are not rented as the subs pays for access to account, players can always go back and pay a sub at a later date if they wish to take a break.  I understand where you are coming from, but I'd rather pay a monthly sub and get as many pets as I wish in a day than pay an excessive amount for 1 pet, sometimes costing as much as 2 - 4 months subs.

  Gravarg

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 8/24/06
Posts: 3208

9/09/13 3:28:34 AM#20
Kind of a side note to the side argument...am I the only one that's happy I actually have to go google stuff for an MMO again?  Takes me back to the old days, I love it :)  
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