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EverQuest Next

EverQuest Next 

General Discussion  » ESOs art style is very popular, EQNs not so much.

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126 posts found
  Nadia

Elite Member

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11552

9/08/13 10:44:04 AM#21
Originally posted by jesteralways

SOE have been working on EQN for couple of years now, Smed himself said it. Zenimax started on ESO only after the release of skyrim. but that is not the point here, the poll is not even the point here, OP is trying to say that old thing again in a better way : "cartoony graphics sux".

I agree w you on Ops agenda

but even taking the Op at face value...theres tons of game footage for ESO

thats not true for EQN

 

when ESO was first showing its screenshots -- it was not met w player approval on these forums

  rodingo

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/18/07
Posts: 1789

9/08/13 10:44:36 AM#22
Originally posted by Shoju

Do you really think that SOE are going to scrap all of the work that they have done developing art assets for the game just to please (what is more than likely) a vocal minority who are butthurt over the art style?  I don't think so.  People can throw up as many straw polls as they want, the end results of a few hundred people voting are not going to be anywhere near representative of the hundreds of thousands/millions of people that will end up playing EQNext. 

This art style topic is a dead horse that has been needlessly beaten into a pulp.

 

 

This

The average gamer has no idea how long it takes to have a character design approved, modeled, textured, and rigged.  Then to have the various idle, combat animations, and run/walk cycles made for that character (though often in cases those assets are shared across several different yet similar character models).  I highly doubt they will just scrap the whole design aesthetic because of a biased poll or survey.  That doesn't mean they won't make some non-invasive  tweaks similar to what Bioware/EA did when they first started to show alpha character models from SWTOR several years ago.  However, start over from scratch?  Possible, sure but very unlikely.

"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  ckeeton999

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 58

9/08/13 10:47:47 AM#23
Dude get over it it isn't changing . The majority of people don't care. 1000 people isn't a lot. You basing the entire game when you haven't even seen a actual gameplay demo is beyond dumb
  Sengi

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/01/09
Posts: 344

 
OP  9/08/13 11:10:19 AM#24
Originally posted by Kyllien
Oh who cares?  ESO is ESO, EQN is EQN.  If they were the same we would only need one game.  Let each attempt to draw their own crowds and everyone wins.  And since EQN will be F2P I am betting that it will have many, many more players regardless of art style. 

Well, the customers care. It is not the case that EQN and ESO exist in two completely different markets. Instead they compete with several other titles for a quite similar target audients.

Especially if they are aiming for the casual F2P demographic they are dealing with people that will judge a game by the first impression, and if the first thing they see is the abominable man-cat, they are not going to find out anything about all the awesome features EQN has.

This art style will also alienate the hardcore crowd. These are the most loyal players and they are the ones that hype the game and post all those lets play videos on youtube.

  Mr.Kujo

Novice Member

Joined: 5/23/12
Posts: 392

“Discussion is impossible with someone who claims not to seek the truth, but already to possess it.”

9/08/13 11:13:32 AM#25
Originally posted by Sengi

If this is a vocal minority that please show me where the silent majority is. The survey had close to 1000 respondents. That is a sufficient large sample. A problem is that it only includes people that are already searching for the game on the web and no one who might casually discover it later on, but it is as representative as it could be under this circumstances. It may not be perfect, but it is certainly saying something.

 

Just...wow. I could make my own survey, vote 1000 times in it and it would be just as useful as the one you made. A survey placed only on one forum, that has specific community, with specific mindset... a niche. And from that community, you have a vocal part, that represents the extremes (love or hate). And from that group you pick ones that come only to a specific part of forum. So to add to all this stupidity one needs to take into account, that we have a game that has an art style that follows its predecessor and one that broken from predecessor style and created something new. So in this case the most vocal part on one side are old players that are angry because of that change. That adds even more unfairness to the retardness that is there already. And to add even more nonsense, you compare those two values, already useless and claim that there is a connection, disregarding all other factors.

To inject a little bit of reason to this comedy. Is a 1000 sufficient sample for a group of potential mmorpg players, which are now in millions? No, the smallest surveys about mmorpgs on web counts anything form 40000+ sample and it is still not taken seriously by many. You need to publish your survey in a place, where only people with interest to the game come to visit, not where people come to critisize and badmouth a game. You don't care about people that were not going to buy the game in the first place and just come in to vote how bad it is, you want to check if people who are interested in game don't like the graphics. You can't survey a niche, your survey needs to be on the web, not on forum.. There you have it, surveying for dummies.

If you wanted to prove that angry self proclaimed critics that post on this specific forum don't like the game, well good job.

  Herithius

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/22/04
Posts: 160

9/08/13 11:20:44 AM#26

The vocal minority are the ones that visit these forums and have forum discussions on a game that's a year away.

 

The silent majority do not.

 

 

  MumboJumbo

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/18/10
Posts: 3203

Veni, Vidi, Converti

9/08/13 11:35:02 AM#27

The way I see it:

If you want an RPG in the vein of D&D, then you want graphics that evoke world full of drama that is serious within it's own immersion. Anything other than that goal is 4th Wall breaking. So for ESO with their IP it is mandatory to have such graphics that are dark, gritty and believably another world.

If you want a suite of highly recognizable and imaginatively diverse types with hypertrophic emphasized personalities expressed in the art then you will choose EQ:N's more cartoony proportioned designs which therefore are more mass market and younger demographics appeal. I don't know but I presume also female demographic friendly than what the artists would consider with the above darker/grittier also? The characters give off a more fun/friendly countenance also perhaps useful to lessen competion compared to cooperation?

These cynical boards and/or niche demographic I would expect to prefer the first choice in general, but the wider, larger population could well prefer the second?

  Fearum

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 1092

9/08/13 11:56:19 AM#28

EQN looks like its being made for the soccer mom's and the house husbands, pretty much the G Rated crowd. Nothing wrong with it though, they need an MMO too and why not the market is untapped except for the Wii. It looks like Sony is trying to get families playing MMO's and they think this art style is best for the direction they are going.

I personally would like a more gritty dark game since I have no children or plan on having children anytime soon. I work hard, play hard, party hard and would like to game hard but there are no games for me right now. I wouldn't consider myself a hardcore gamer but I don't mind playing for 4 hours in a game that I enjoy after work instead of watching TV. What does this have to do with art style? Taste, I guess. I don't want to feel like I'm in a Disney cartoon when I game. I don't rent G rated movies and watch them so why would I play a game that looks like it's based in one.

ESO is looking pretty good art style wise, not sure its going to be for me with the game play though. Kind of sick of the theme park games as of late and would like to see a large AAA sandbox game with some good art style and a huge world. I will probably check it out since there is nothing else interesting coming my way in the near future, but doubt I will play longer than a few months at best.

Art style has an impact on everything in life, human's are visual animals, we use vision for pretty much everything we do everyday. These comments I keep reading about art style doesn't matter are bullshit, art style is what attracts you, art style is what immerses you, art style is expressive, art style is what keeps you exploring to see more of this amazing world you are in and art has been around since man first picked up something and drew a picture to communicate with others about what was going on in his mind. 

 

  Bigdaddyx

Elite Member

Joined: 5/24/10
Posts: 1763

9/08/13 12:04:40 PM#29

Yeah i think SOE should just scrap the entire game and remake it with new art style because people on (be prepared to be shocked).. mmorpg.com dislike it.

Because we know for a fact that mmorpg.com represents millions of gamers world wide and always has a huge impact on success of MMOS. 

  Sengi

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/01/09
Posts: 344

 
OP  9/08/13 12:05:18 PM#30
Originally posted by flizzer
Not a huge fan of the EQ Next artstyle.  Considering the voxel based gameworld of EQ Next and the ability to manipulate the world, I think the direction was necessary, or at least, that is what people more knowledgeable about game creation tell me. It doesnt seem possible at this point in time to add voxel design with everything EQ Next wants to do in a very realistic world setting. If this is the case, and like i said, I am just understanding this from others who "claim" to have knowledge of game design, then I'll bit the bullet and deal with the cartoons.   Maybe some day we can get a game that looks like ESO with voxel technology similar to EQ Next.  Well, until that day.....

 

This is what Rosie Rappaport said at the worlds panel at SOE live. (link) She stats at 6:30.

At an early stage in development they thought that EQN was going to look somewhat like Minecraft with big visible blocks, but that had changed a long time ago. I'm not sure at what point they knew they where using the VoxelFarm engine (link), but after that it was clear that EQN wouldn't have any visible blocks. The engine has been around for several years now. The world in EQN is very smooth. I couldn't tell if this are voxel-grafics or not by just looking at it.

I don't see how the VoxelFarm engine is forcing them to use any specific art style. Why can't we have EQN with grittier looking characters right now.

  Galadourn

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 1055

9/08/13 12:15:49 PM#31
Don't you think it's kinda pointless to crusade against the art style OP? It's quite clear that SOE has given it ample thought before choosing this stylized version. And it's also quite clear that the majority of the potential players that frequent these fora either like it or don't mind at all.

http://kck.st/Xo38HT

  joe2721

Novice Member

Joined: 2/08/07
Posts: 146

9/08/13 12:27:51 PM#32

Threads like these crack me up. If you do not like a game don't play it. if you want to design a game start a business and go do it.

Its like walking into wendy's and tell them you don't like there meals so can they make you something  from burger king.

People always want more and our culture carters to this.

Personally I like the look but  hated the way wow looked when it was realeased for the same reasons that are being pointed out here. I ended up  playing eq2 ( which launched at  about the same time) and i think  stuck with eq2 for 4-5 months then  a friend let me  play  wow and I never looked back. That thought me one thing...... play the game before you judge it

  Kharisha

Novice Member

Joined: 8/07/13
Posts: 38

9/08/13 2:18:54 PM#33

ESO artstyle is GENERIC. G.E.N.E.R.I.C. At best and it will die as fast as possible.

you want to see what is popular? World Of Motherfreaking Warcraft. You want some more? League Of Legends with CARTOON GRAPHICS all over it's place.

No one gives a RAT'S ASS about Tesselation, real graphics and gritty POS. All depends on how you make it look good. Previously EQ developers had cartoony graphics in EQ1 - it was popular. EQ2 had more realistic graphics and required serious juiced PC at that time and it was not so popular.

EQN developers are smart and they are doing the right decision that you can't change and Thank God For That.

 

 

you know what? You can go and play ESO. No one stop you. I hope it won't die after one year. I, on the other hand can't wait for EQNext and first of all I'm going to play EQ Landmark this winter. Yes, baby. I'm going to play a lot. Yes! Yes! Yes!!111One

  Sengi

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/01/09
Posts: 344

 
OP  9/08/13 2:33:39 PM#34
Originally posted by Nadia

a year ago, in may 2012, ESO was posting the first screenshots

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/349953/First-Screen-And-Details-On-Elders-Scrolls-Online.html

look back at the old ESO forum postings - gamers were commenting ESO looked terrible

you think its a fair poll? comparing ESO with a year of screenshots/videos vs a mmo recently revealed?

That is true. The first pictures of ESO looked not really good. This was a public relations disaster. Zenimax should have put “work in progress” on every picture in big letters.

If it is a similar case EQN I would be eased. But we have seen a lot of videos now and SOE hasn’t told us that any of this was not final. So if the final game doesn’t look like that it’s false advertising. If they make their own game look bad that is not our problem.

The complains about ESOs screenshots where mostly about technical issues. The graphics look somewhat dull and low poly. With EQN it’s the general art style. The kerra won’t look any better no matter how much you crank up the graphics.

  intrinsc

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/19/12
Posts: 94

Trust, but verify.

9/08/13 2:37:05 PM#35
People will always "like" a more realistic art style until their computer can't handle it and want something more pulled back and relaxed.
  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

9/08/13 2:44:25 PM#36

You do have to remember, SOE-native players have been vested in that "cartoony" word for ten years now. It's their ammunition since 2003.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  TheHavok

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/13/04
Posts: 2429

"Free crack and everybody gets laid."

9/08/13 2:46:27 PM#37
Originally posted by Nadia
Originally posted by Shoju

This art style topic is a dead horse that has been needlessly beaten into a pulp.

more beatings!

I'll grab my whip!

  cmorris975

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/10
Posts: 102

9/08/13 2:56:46 PM#38

Personally, I can't stand EQ Next's cartoony graphics and it matters enough to me that I won't play it as is.  This is just my personal feelings of course, and I played EQ1 for years and years, used to absolutely love the franchise.  EQN's graphics look like their target audience are 7 year-olds.  I am not interested.

I do hope that those who really like the graphics get a great game that they love, however.

  Sengi

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/01/09
Posts: 344

 
OP  9/08/13 3:09:25 PM#39
Originally posted by jesteralways
OP is trying to say that old thing again in a better way : "cartoony graphics sux".

Hey, the moderator doesn’t want use curse words around here. :D I would have said: “Cartoony graphics don’t work for EQN.”, because I like the cartoony art style in Farmville. But besides that you have summarized my opinion about the art style quite well. And I’m by far not the only one who thinks that way. You can’t deny that together others I have already underpinned this standpoint quite well.

  tawess

Elite Member

Joined: 3/24/05
Posts: 2020

9/08/13 3:17:00 PM#40

Three reasons why a dev studio might look at a stylized art style over a realistic one

 

A: Low end machines, it is a lot easier to make a stylized art style scale-able then a realistic one. The human mind have a lot easier to "buy" something that does not look real.

 

B: Emotions are easier to get across when the face does not need to follow a 100% strict bone structure.

 

C: Scale, again it is a lot easier to play with the scale of the world when things are not hyper realistic.

 

It has been tested in pretty much every genre of gaming and it have yet to fail. Especially if you want to express a more light-hearted idea. (the average person tend to like that over heart attack serious things... If you doubt me, check out some "comedy" produced by the Finns.)

 

So i would say that the art style that EQ:N is using is VERY popular and not only in MMO´s but in pretty much every genre. Not saying realistic art styles are not popular, just that it is silly to dismiss a more stylized one.

But in the end i do not think it will matter, just as ESO will not change neither will EQ:N, and out fo those two i´l be playing EQ:N... If i want heart attack serious i watch some Swedish drama.

Tomas Soapbox

This have been a good conversation

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