Trending Games | ArcheAge | Elder Scrolls Online | WildStar | Star Wars: The Old Republic

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,857,260 Users Online:0
Games:742  Posts:6,242,793
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Angry Birds Epic Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Ascend: Hand of Kul Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Boot Hill Heroes Borderlands 2 Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel Bound by Flame Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Bravada Bravely Default Bravely Second Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Cast & Conquer Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Child of Light Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Dead Island Dead Island 2 Dead Island: Riptide Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Divinity: Original Sin Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Age: Inquisition Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Drakengard 3 Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dungeon of the Endless Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Fearless Fantasy Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy Type-0 HD Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Heart Forth Alicia Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes & Legends: Conquerors of Kolhar Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online Kyn L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Lichdom: Battlemage Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lords of the Fallen Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Moonrise Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Persona V Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Project Zomboid Puzzle Pirates Quest for Infamy Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Risen 3: Titan Lords Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sacred 3 Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Chance Heroes Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow Realms Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Styx: Master of Shadows Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Banner Saga The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing 2 The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Transistor Transverse Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune Wasteland 2 WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenoblade Chronicles: X Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Will PvP be a zergfest??

2 Pages 1 2 » Search
35 posts found
  Miklosan

Novice Member

Joined: 7/17/08
Posts: 179

 
OP  8/31/13 6:52:41 PM#1

Easy now, ain't trolling here or anything like that.

Thing is, I never played DAOC for example, I played games with battlegrounds/scenarious/warzones and arenas etc, etc... Sometimes I wonder how the pvp could be sustainable in a game like ESO where there are only PvP in Cyrodiil. And that it is a pvp with masses! I'm a bit afraid that it will mostly be a so called zergfest, wich is very fun for a while though (TarrenMill/Southshore) but is fun for long?, sustainable?

 

Hey, I read other peoples post every now and then and some people seems to praise DAOC's system. And sure, I think they know what they are talking about but in what way was it so fun in the long term? How did it work? What made it sustainable?

 

Now, I am looking forward to this 3 faction pvp aswell as the pve part in ESO, it seems fun. I just never played a game with such a system so therefor I wonder.

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3806

8/31/13 8:48:41 PM#2

1. You always play with the same people...more or less. The same guilds on your side and the same enemies in theirs. Scenario PVP in other games is mostly random Qs: a bunch of strangers against other strangers--at best 4 or 5 people you know and that only some of the time. In DAoC you got to know a lot of people fighting with them day in and day out. That matters. 

2. Complex planning and execution. Not all the time, but often enough. Sometimes you just head out to the frontier and see what's cooking. Other times you spend a week or more planning a "relic raid" (Elder Scroll raid here) that involved attacking the toughest, best defended stronghold of one of your two enemy alliances. After you got it, you then had to run it back to your own stronghold. Lots of opportunity for trying to catch them by surprise, fake them out with diversionary attacks elsewhere, some groups harassing and trying to prevent reinforcements, scouting, etc. Once you got those relics you stole back home, your whole alliance would get some PVE and PVP boost. Each side in DaoC had a magic and a melee relic. Whichever you stole, would boost that ability. Not sure how they will do it here but it'll be something like that. I know, this is sort of old-hat now. WOW and everybody else has copied this realm wide (or at least zone-wide) boost system from DAoC. Maybe they'll add some new wrinkles to it.

3. On the other side of 2 above... rallying and trying to prevent them taking it or hitting them as they try to take it back to their stronghold. Or... if you're the third alliance, using the opportunity to do your own impromptu raid. Endless possibilities. Contrast that to a 15 minute scenario that is always more or less the same.

4. No separate PVE and PVP gear with contrived PvP-only stats. So...no point farming for gear. Some point farming for some of the post level cap extra abilities PVP points got you but the focus, at least in "vanilla" DAoC, wasn't just in racking up the points. People just did it because they liked doing it.

But the key to all that is some kind of reward system that makes all types of contribution worth it. That's where Warhammer Online really screwed-up. The rewards were such that defending wasn't worth the time or effort. So yeah, it deteriorated into a zergfest with one side taking a keep, getting the reward points and then abandoning it and letting the other side take it back to farm points while you went somewhere else to take another one. On top of that, WAR also had 15 minute scenarios with better rewards than keep taking. People Q'd for the scenarios and whenever they popped they would go do that and abandon the raid. WAR was also only 2-sided. The 3rd side makes a big difference and makes everything riskier. Your home territory isn't safe just because all of Alliance A and Alliance B are tied up in one big fight somewhere. Alliance C will have their own ideas and hit you where you're week.

Just some of the things that made it work.

  PaRoXiTiC

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/11/08
Posts: 500

8/31/13 8:54:44 PM#3
War is a zergfest. Don't you watch old movies? Theres nothing that can be done about it. Massive World vs World vs World PVP will always and forever be a zergfest.
  Sleepyfish

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/25/09
Posts: 362

9/01/13 12:39:57 AM#4

Well keep in mind DAOC was DAOC and RVR was built from the ground up to go with the game and lore. It had the fortune of one being a new concept and also at a time when DAOC at its peak had 250k total subs, which was a lot for that time. The problem currently is that you are really just dealing with one big center of the map siege battleground. and if you are trying to keep a population of a few million occupied you will have to put out more instanced battlegrounds just to keep the boredom at bay. the combat system itself will determine if its a Zerg fest or not though.

GW2 is a zergfest because the combat system is spammy and poor. You face zergs in GW2 because ranged combat is a joke, not to mention any utility, dps AOE spam is king. Thats what killed their WvWvW. So the debate on pvp is just from people like me who think RVR is more like a mini game than actual pvp, but it does not have to be a zerg if combat is not terrible. Archery so far looks pretty good, but we will see how far you can snipe someone to be sure, if it looks like a bunch of guys trying to hit you with a 20 foot AOE ground dps attack you may have problems. 

  Masita

Novice Member

Joined: 5/13/05
Posts: 9

9/01/13 1:42:46 PM#5

DAoC PvP (RvR) differs from most newer PvP games: Much longer Crowd Control spells (+immunity) and Interrupts (interrupting caster and archer classes) are by far more important than for example in GW2.

Using Crowd Control efficiently, a small, well  organized group can take out a much larger force. Something I really miss in newer PvP games...

  svann

Novice Member

Joined: 12/06/06
Posts: 1633

9/01/13 4:03:04 PM#6
I believe they said that if you die you respawn at your homepoint entrance, so it wont be like you just die and run back in immediately.  If you die you are out of the battle until you can travel back.  So dont die.
  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3806

9/01/13 4:13:01 PM#7
Originally posted by svann
I believe they said that if you die you respawn at your homepoint entrance, so it wont be like you just die and run back in immediately.  If you die you are out of the battle until you can travel back.  So dont die.

Or if you do, get rezzed. In DAoC you only ever really had to run back - and it was a long run - if the whole party/raid wiped or you died in a spot where no one on your side had a LOS to you.

Funny thing about ESO though, rezzing uses up the same soul gems you need to use to recharge your magic items. I can just see it... "sorry man, can't rezz you, my healing staff is almost out of charge and I only have one soul gem left" 

  Apraxis

Elite Member

Joined: 9/28/05
Posts: 1471

9/01/13 4:20:54 PM#8

Why was DAoC not only a zerg fest? Because it was a zerg fest. Port to emain macha and the zerg fest was a 100% guarantee.

But in DAoC the actual RvR zone was huge.. even more in the beginning there were 3 different huge zones. You need to run 30 min or more from one end to the other.. of one zone.

So basicly the zerg concentrated at one single point.. and usually at the same single point.. in Emain Macha.. And Emain Macha was one zone of the Hib RvR Zones.. basicly just 1/15 of the total RvR Zone.

If you want to have smaller scale pvp you could run through the other zones, and you would have found(after some time) another group, or other player for small scale pvp.

In WAR this never happend, because a) the zone were more or less tiny, and b) most ppl looking for small scale pvp joined a instanced. (easier, fast, more reward.. but not that fun in comparsion)

In GW2 because a) the zones are again more or less tiny in comparsion, and b) the zones are extremely crowded.. one castle beside the other just almost no room between that it can even happen that smaller groups can meet and can fight it out.

How will it in ESO? It really depends on a lot of stuff. Will the AvA(PvP) map huge enough? Will it not be overfilled with castles and stuff( and as i heard already you can run(with mount) from one castle to another in 1-2 min. this really cries tiny and or crowded once again), and/or will there be enough objectives spread around for different size of groups.. and are they worth is?

How fast can you run from one spot to the other? If you can run within 5-10 min. to every spot, you will not find one fight uninterupted.. or with other words, you will only see zerg.

I don't know how it will turn out.. but  i am not that optimistic.

  artemisentr4

Elite Member

Joined: 12/25/08
Posts: 1441

9/01/13 5:35:03 PM#9
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by svann
I believe they said that if you die you respawn at your homepoint entrance, so it wont be like you just die and run back in immediately.  If you die you are out of the battle until you can travel back.  So dont die.

Or if you do, get rezzed. In DAoC you only ever really had to run back - and it was a long run - if the whole party/raid wiped or you died in a spot where no one on your side had a LOS to you.

Funny thing about ESO though, rezzing uses up the same soul gems you need to use to recharge your magic items. I can just see it... "sorry man, can't rezz you, my healing staff is almost out of charge and I only have one soul gem left" 

I guess that means everyone needs to carry some extra. "I will trade you 4 soul gems if you rezz me!!!"

“How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?”
R.A.Salvatore

  tanzer126

Novice Member

Joined: 9/09/13
Posts: 3

9/08/13 11:47:41 PM#10
I honestly just hope pvp is segregated.. I don't care for it in mmo's because there is 0 skill involved at any level past "these skills work against this".... If there is any form of open world FFA pvp i will end up not buying, played the beta this weekend, very high hopes for the pve. don't want to see it ruined by morons and griefers
  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15588

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

9/08/13 11:52:40 PM#11
Originally posted by tanzer126
I honestly just hope pvp is segregated.. I don't care for it in mmo's because there is 0 skill involved at any level past "these skills work against this".... If there is any form of open world FFA pvp i will end up not buying, played the beta this weekend, very high hopes for the pve. don't want to see it ruined by morons and griefers

If there is no skill in playing against a thinking, reacting, real opponent,  your own statement.. How is there any skill at all in PVE and why would you enjoy that more?

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Entinerint

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/06/12
Posts: 716

9/09/13 12:06:40 AM#12

Let's see:  No collision detection and no friendly fire?

Yeah that spells ZERG-FEST to me.

  tanzer126

Novice Member

Joined: 9/09/13
Posts: 3

9/09/13 12:10:35 AM#13

People, like those scripted thoughtless monsters I enjoy slaying, are predictable. given time nothing is left to chance. skills wont drastically change mid fight, at a certain point the leaps and bounds into higher quality gear slow to a point by point min-max race. I hate pvp in mmo's, while i love first person shooters as a competitive outlet, where eye hand coordination, reaction time, tactical split second thinking all come into play on a level that (when lag is removed from the equation) is a far better test of "skill". 

PvP is (or should be) defined as two combatants who are there for the same purpose, to kill the other. in a segregated pvp situation that is the case, in open world, that quickly and harshly turns from pvp, to pking, in which one side is there for blood and the other just wants to get on with their damned business without being bothered by a fool.

 

open world pvp has been a problem in every single game it has ever been implemented into, a simple look at Aion (i use this reference for it's size and reputation) shows that before there were penalties for rifting with a high level into a much lower level area, the game was rampant with the elitest griefers and gankers, against whom the average player who is in the zone appropriate for their level has nill chance at even escape let alone victory.

 

in any game with levels, character progression of any means (gear availability, skills, revenue streams) open world pvp is like sending an aircraft carrier to settle a debate between two fishermen on their row boats..

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3806

9/09/13 11:05:11 AM#14

The only situation where a zerg can't happen is in instances with a small number of players. In any kind of open world environment - PVP or PVE - a mindless zerg with no strategy is an option for people who want to do it that way.

So... I'm going to assume that anyone using the term in a disdainful way is a 5-man, scripted dungeon instance aficionado. Some people enjoy choreographed folk dancing with memorized steps, others just like to dance. 

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5785

9/09/13 11:15:16 AM#15
Originally posted by Iselin

The only situation where a zerg can't happen is in instances with a small number of players. In any kind of open world environment - PVP or PVE - a mindless zerg with no strategy is an option for people who want to do it that way.

So... I'm going to assume that anyone using the term in a disdainful way is a 5-man, scripted dungeon instance aficionado. Some people enjoy choreographed folk dancing with memorized steps, others just like to dance. 

Yeah, I've never seen large group pvp that couldn't devolve into a zergball.  Sometimes steamrolling a map in a zergball is fun and it's sort of cool when large scale combat gets out of control.

I prefer small to medium group sized skirmishes mostly, but zerging has it's place.  A really good pvp system, in my opinion of course, will have stategy and tactics options that can stop a zergball in its tracks, or possibilities for smaller groups to harass or disrupt the zerg. For Aiur.

Curse you AquaScum!

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3806

9/09/13 11:31:59 AM#16
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by Iselin

The only situation where a zerg can't happen is in instances with a small number of players. In any kind of open world environment - PVP or PVE - a mindless zerg with no strategy is an option for people who want to do it that way.

So... I'm going to assume that anyone using the term in a disdainful way is a 5-man, scripted dungeon instance aficionado. Some people enjoy choreographed folk dancing with memorized steps, others just like to dance. 

Yeah, I've never seen large group pvp that couldn't devolve into a zergball.  Sometimes steamrolling a map in a zergball is fun and it's sort of cool when large scale combat gets out of control.

I prefer small to medium group sized skirmishes mostly, but zerging has it's place.  A really good pvp system, in my opinion of course, will have stategy and tactics options that can stop a zergball in its tracks, or possibilities for smaller groups to harass or disrupt the zerg. For Aiur.

Not to mention developers making defense an attractive option that gives you the same or even better rewards (points or whatever) than attacking.

That was WAR's main problem: it was much more rewarding to take a keep than to defend one. This led to the inevitable "keep flipping" where two zergs would avoid each other, take a keep and promptly abandon it

  Jyiiga

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/03/10
Posts: 1018

9/16/13 10:32:01 AM#17

As others have pointed out defense needs to be an option.

I say the size of the area we are defending and how fast you can move around in it are also ways to break up the zerg.

Guild Wars 2 is a good example of nice ideas, but sorry execution. I still log on and participate in their WvW, but the areas that we fight over are entirely to small. I normally break away from the zerg and do my own thing simply for fun and challenge alone. The zergs are what determine control over the map. The more you can group together the faster you can crush the other side.

If the zone was larger and harder to get around (no stupid teleport way points). It would warrant better tactics. DAOC had its share of zergs, but the RvR areas were so big that I could group up and go off with a small team and still make a big impact. I can't really do that in GW2.

Make it big! Make travel take time! Make defense viable!

  Swids2010

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/22/13
Posts: 209

9/16/13 10:40:37 AM#18

Simple answer YES

From what I've read about it and from playing wvwvw in gw2 (which I did love for maybe 2-3 months) it seams like its going to be very similar so if you played that you know what to expect.

  ButeoRegalis

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/02/10
Posts: 402

9/16/13 10:52:03 AM#19


Originally posted by Masita DAoC PvP (RvR) differs from most newer PvP games: Much longer Crowd Control spells (+immunity) and Interrupts (interrupting caster and archer classes) are by far more important than for example in GW2. Using Crowd Control efficiently, a small, well  organized group can take out a much larger force. Something I really miss in newer PvP games...
.. because if it's one thing PvP players like it's to be disabled by a good hard stun lock, sit there for thirty seconds, maybe a minute until they finally kill you. Best-time-ever!

Closely followed by...


But in DAoC the actual RvR zone was huge.. even more in the beginning there were 3 different huge zones. You need to run 30 min or more from one end to the other.. of one zone.

...dying in battle, respawning at PK and then having to run back to the battle for 5 minutes.

Believe it or not, change can actually be good for you.

  FlyinDutchman87

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/25/10
Posts: 167

9/16/13 11:13:41 AM#20

The success or failure of a zerg really has a few main influences.

 

1. The prevalence and power of AOE skills. In GW2 there is a hard cap on the number and damage of AOE's. This makes it highly effective to pile a million idiots on top of each other.  If AOE's are powerful enough when stacked they will punish players for being to concentrated.

 

2. The rewards for Capping and Defending. In games like War and GW2 players get awesome rewards for capping things and very little for defending. Also the rewards for capping smaller points are VERY tiny in comparision to the larger keeps. This makes it so that players are rewarded for clumping together to take the largest objectives instead of rewarding them for spreading out and defending, or capping smaller points.

 

3. Importance of side objectives. The supplies in GW2 were an awesome idea but not nearly deep enough. If you had iron mines and stone quaries to defend and use. actaully building/repairing of keeps and things with crafting skills. Watch towers and such that are actually defensible it would spread players out improving the over all experience instead of having a massive cluster of idiots just running some point to point smashing everything.

2 Pages 1 2 » Search