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MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » This and other sites agree MMORPGs don't have to be "massive"

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116 posts found
  DavisFlight

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2421

8/27/13 4:21:54 PM#21
Originally posted by rojo6934
MMORPGS dont have to be massive, but once you take the massive part out you rename it to Multiplayer Online RPG (MORPG). Nothing massive about it.

And the multiplayer and online are kind of redundant.

  SnarlingWolf

Novice Member

Joined: 6/23/09
Posts: 2728

8/27/13 4:25:35 PM#22
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by rojo6934
MMORPGS dont have to be massive, but once you take the massive part out you rename it to Multiplayer Online RPG (MORPG). Nothing massive about it.

And the multiplayer and online are kind of redundant.

There are games which aren't played over the internet you know. I guess all board games should be called online games since multiplayer and online are the same thing now....

  SnarlingWolf

Novice Member

Joined: 6/23/09
Posts: 2728

8/27/13 4:26:44 PM#23
This just in, the term Red Barn is not just for red barns anymore. You could have a blue barn or a purple barn and call it a red barn. Hell you could have a white kitten and call it a red barn because all words are subjective and do not in fact all have definitions.
  Rusque

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/08/10
Posts: 1650

8/27/13 4:26:51 PM#24
Originally posted by Kuinn
Originally posted by nariusseldon

I suspect very few, even those managing MMO websites care very much about the strict definition of the word "massive" in the label "MMORPG". The term is used quite loosely, if LoL, Diablo, vindictus, DDO and NWO are counted.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/08/27/the-soapbox-actually-that-really-isnt-an-mmo/#continued

The reason I can't endorse that article's line of thinking is that someone has to set an arbitrary line where massive begins and ends.

Is massive when hundreds of player interact simultaneously? Is it thousands? Do they have to interact within the same space? Meaning, can 5 interact in one instance while 5 interaction in another and so on until you've reached 100?

 

Is a game with very miniscule playerbase still a MMO? Let's say I log into Vanguard and only find 34 people online. What is it?

 

What happens if a game doesn't have enough players? Does it cease to be a MMO because it fails to be massive, or is it granted the name based on a theoretical possibility of that many players interacting? In which case, if you can base it on theory, then you can slippery slope that into "well IF this lobby game like D3 had an open world, it would be massively multiplayer!" So can you or can you not allow "ifs"?

 

How about a game which has a lot of players playing in a persistent world, but they don't interact on a massive scale, maybe only 50 of them are interacting, is it still a MMO?

 

Maybe it is best to just retire the term 'MMO' as it doesn't really define much outside of a theoretical model that will shift constantly. "Look 1000 people just interacted simultaneously, it's a MMO!" "Oh, now they're solo'ing again, it's just an RPG now."

Until we retire the term MMO, I will consider any game with massive amount of players playing online a MMO. And that's because I can't accept a definition that it dictated by an arbitrary rule that fluctuates based on who is using it.

 

  DavisFlight

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2421

8/27/13 4:28:47 PM#25
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by rojo6934
MMORPGS dont have to be massive, but once you take the massive part out you rename it to Multiplayer Online RPG (MORPG). Nothing massive about it.

And the multiplayer and online are kind of redundant.

There are games which aren't played over the internet you know.

Not much on PCs.

  DavisFlight

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2421

8/27/13 4:30:23 PM#26
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by nariusseldon

Many people are arguing the literal English wording of the term MMORPG.

No, we're not. We're arguing what MMORPG meant when the phrase was coined by MMO creators.

We don't going around saying that any game where you play a role is an RPG.

We don't go around saying that every game that is first person is an FPS.

We don't go around saying every game that lets you connect to the internet is an MMO.

 

When someone says RPG they have a general meaning to what they say beyond the literal definition.

And when someone USED to say MMO, it meant, thousands of players in a persistent world interacting at all times.

Marketing has diluted the term after MMO became a buzz word. We're keeping the real definition of the word alive.

Bumping the answer.

  SnarlingWolf

Novice Member

Joined: 6/23/09
Posts: 2728

8/27/13 4:33:34 PM#27
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by rojo6934
MMORPGS dont have to be massive, but once you take the massive part out you rename it to Multiplayer Online RPG (MORPG). Nothing massive about it.

And the multiplayer and online are kind of redundant.

There are games which aren't played over the internet you know.

Not much on PCs.

There are multiplayer games on PCs that can be played on the same machine or through a LAN.

 

Also the definition of MMO doesn't indicate that it is on computers. We know them as computer games because we've played them. However, the term does not including PC or even video game so that doesn't work, and as I pointed out there are multiplayer games even on PCs that aren't online. All the words are needed.

Massively - adjective to indicate the size of the multiplayer aspect

Multiplayer - indicates that it people play it together

Online - indicates that it is played through the internet

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 18804

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

8/27/13 4:46:59 PM#28
MMORPG, you know when you're playing in one, everything else is just "Newspeak"

"In these forums 'honest' seems to be a symonym for 'hates the game just like I do'" - ohioastro
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  Cecropia

Gumshoe

Joined: 3/06/09
Posts: 3253

Poacher killer.

8/27/13 5:26:35 PM#29

I seem to remember some time ago an mmorpg.com staffer chiming in in a similar thread stating that they were covering X non-MMO title because the people that visited the site had shown great interest in it.

Perhaps someone on the mmorpg.com payroll could jump into this thread to clarify the issue. Do you guys believe that a lobby based shooter such as WOT is an MMO, or just a lobby based shooter that has stolen a handful of MMO features such as character progression etc.? Because this would in turn qualify Combat Arms as an mmo. Where does this end really?

Anyways, I would love to hear from someone from this site if you happen to be in the neighbourhood.

"Chuck's a good fighter but he's a UFC fighter... this is Pride." - Quinton Rampage Jackson
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  DavisFlight

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2421

8/27/13 5:37:36 PM#30
Originally posted by Cecropia

I seem to remember some time ago an mmorpg.com staffer chiming in in a similar thread stating that they were covering X non-MMO title because the people that visited the site had shown great interest in it.

Perhaps someone on the mmorpg.com payroll could jump into this thread to clarify the issue. Do you guys believe that a lobby based shooter such as WOT is an MMO, or just a lobby based shooter that has stolen a handful of MMO features such as character progression etc.? Because this would in turn qualify Combat Arms as an mmo. Where does this end really?

Anyways, I would love to hear from someone from this site if you happen to be in the neighbourhood.

The staff on this site have a very VERY loose definition of what MMORPG means. Reall they're just an online game website, they'll cover anything if there's any interest or money to be made off it.

Hell, Age of Empires Online is even on this site, and that game lets you play with a MAX of 4 people.

  ray12k

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/08/05
Posts: 475

8/27/13 5:39:39 PM#31
Originally posted by nariusseldon

Many people are arguing the literal English wording of the term MMORPG. Personally i don't think genre labels are literal, and i think they are just convenient labels for a group of games.

Don't believe me? I think it would be fun to go to some "MMORPG" sites and see how things are categorized.

First up ... MMORPG.com. If you click on "game list", it will say "MMORPG Gamelist - All MMO Games". What is listed under this big MMORPG game list? Amongst others ... we have

Diablo 3, LoL, DDO, the first GW, Vindictus, World of Tanks .. and many that either don't focus on, or have no "massive" MP gameplay.

 

How about whatmmorpg.com? (http://www.whatmmorpg.com/fantasy-mmorpg-games.php)

LoL is listed under Fantasy MMORPG Games. Mechwarrior Online is listed under sci-fi MMORPGs, right above Eve. There are other non-massive MMOs there, you can find the other listings yourself.

 

How about mmobomb.com? http://www.mmobomb.com/top-10-free-mmorpg

DDO, and NWO, and Vindictus are on their top 10 list. Other non-massive MMOs are listed .. you can go look at their whole listing.

 

I suspect very few, even those managing MMO websites care very much about the strict definition of the word "massive" in the label "MMORPG". The term is used quite loosely, if LoL, Diablo, vindictus, DDO and NWO are counted.

 

Massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG) is a genre of role-playing video games or web browser based games in which a very large number of players interact with one another within a virtual game world.

As in all RPGs, players assume the role of a character (often in a fantasy world or science-fiction world) and take control over many of that character's actions. MMORPGs are distinguished from single-player or small multi-player online RPGs by the number of players, and by the game's persistent world (usually hosted by the game's publisher), which continues to exist and evolve while the player isoffline and away from the game.

 

Their you go.  What you feel a word should mean and it's actual meaning are two different things.... If you like to argue with the above meaning ..... click the link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massively_multiplayer_online_role-playing_game.

  xeniar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/09/06
Posts: 800

8/27/13 5:39:53 PM#32
Originally posted by nariusseldon

Many people are arguing the literal English wording of the term MMORPG. Personally i don't think genre labels are literal, and i think they are just convenient labels for a group of games.

Don't believe me? I think it would be fun to go to some "MMORPG" sites and see how things are categorized.

First up ... MMORPG.com. If you click on "game list", it will say "MMORPG Gamelist - All MMO Games". What is listed under this big MMORPG game list? Amongst others ... we have

Diablo 3, LoL, DDO, the first GW, Vindictus, World of Tanks .. and many that either don't focus on, or have no "massive" MP gameplay.

 

How about whatmmorpg.com? (http://www.whatmmorpg.com/fantasy-mmorpg-games.php)

LoL is listed under Fantasy MMORPG Games. Mechwarrior Online is listed under sci-fi MMORPGs, right above Eve. There are other non-massive MMOs there, you can find the other listings yourself.

 

How about mmobomb.com? http://www.mmobomb.com/top-10-free-mmorpg

DDO, and NWO, and Vindictus are on their top 10 list. Other non-massive MMOs are listed .. you can go look at their whole listing.

 

I suspect very few, even those managing MMO websites care very much about the strict definition of the word "massive" in the label "MMORPG". The term is used quite loosely, if LoL, Diablo, vindictus, DDO and NWO are counted.

 

All i have to say about it is the term MMORPG is being slapped around on everything nowadays wich has an online function (every game is trying to ride the hypetrain). So in fact the term is being wrongly used on many many ocations.

ive said it before and will say it again if a game like WoT is an MMO then why is CoD not an mmo? its the exact same game. but with tanks. and lobby based games like diablo... please...

So all online games as far as these so called sites care are called MMORPG's right now.

  FoeHammerJT

Novice Member

Joined: 1/07/04
Posts: 149

Knowledge is the enemy of faith.

8/27/13 5:43:33 PM#33
MMORPG was coined by marketers to sell a product to people that would be impressed at the time with the whole "massively online" concept. It has become rote and term should be dropped.
  DrCokePepsi

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/18/12
Posts: 163

What I have shown you is reality. What you remember, that is the illusion.
~Sephiroth FFVII

8/27/13 5:50:33 PM#34


Originally posted by nariusseldon
Many people are arguing the literal English wording of the term MMORPG. Personally i don't think genre labels are literal, and i think they are just convenient labels for a group of games.

Don't believe me? I think it would be fun to go to some "MMORPG" sites and see how things are categorized.

First up ... MMORPG.com. If you click on "game list", it will say "MMORPG Gamelist - All MMO Games". What is listed under this big MMORPG game list? Amongst others ... we have

Diablo 3, LoL, DDO, the first GW, Vindictus, World of Tanks .. and many that either don't focus on, or have no "massive" MP gameplay.

 

How about whatmmorpg.com? (http://www.whatmmorpg.com/fantasy-mmorpg-games.php)

LoL is listed under Fantasy MMORPG Games. Mechwarrior Online is listed under sci-fi MMORPGs, right above Eve. There are other non-massive MMOs there, you can find the other listings yourself.

 

How about mmobomb.com? http://www.mmobomb.com/top-10-free-mmorpg

DDO, and NWO, and Vindictus are on their top 10 list. Other non-massive MMOs are listed .. you can go look at their whole listing.

 

I suspect very few, even those managing MMO websites care very much about the strict definition of the word "massive" in the label "MMORPG". The term is used quite loosely, if LoL, Diablo, vindictus, DDO and NWO are counted.

 


Well, for once Narius, I agree with you lol. It's completely true, the addition of these MOBA's RPG's and MMOFPS's is just aggrivating. The game Planetside 2, great game, but not an MMORPG. LoL, another great game, not an MMORPG. These games may just be massively multiplayer online games, but they have no ROLEPLAYING GAME traits. This mistake has carried millions of casuals into the MMORPG community, mistakenly considering MOBA's and MMOFPS's as mmorpg's and further arguing against the P2P model. To me a MMOFPS and MOBAs can totally be F2P, i have no problem with that, people, casuals and hardcore, jump into the game for some action. The cash shop contains just skins or new aesthetic touches that don't effect in-game and couldn't be obtained in-game either. But those communities coming into the MMORPG aspect want teh same in an mmorpg as in a moba or mmofps. It's a shame sites like this label games as such.

  DavisFlight

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2421

8/27/13 5:53:02 PM#35
Originally posted by FoeHammerJT
MMORPG was coined by marketers to sell a product to people that would be impressed at the time with the whole "massively online" concept. It has become rote and term should be dropped.

It was a term coined by the people who invented the genre to describe it, because there was nothing else like it. Now a bunch of other things that are nothing like original MMOs, and already have better acronyms, are trying to call themselves MMO because

a) It's a buzz term that automatically attracts interest due to big budget successes like WoW(though not for much longer)

b) It allows them to justify shortcomings of the game

c) It allows them to charge more. The gameplay in the new Neverwinter Nights is a pale shadow compared to the gameplay in the old NWN. And guess what, old NWN was free.

  niceguy3978

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/14/06
Posts: 1977

8/27/13 5:57:22 PM#36
Originally posted by Robokapp

I don't know who you're talking about, nor do I think a game is an MMO because an obscure website claims so.

 

MMOs have a definition, and no matter how hard you want to believe a game fits, it either does or doesn't.

 

it's like the Middle Class...everyone thinks he's in it.

Or being average. 50% of people aren't there yet.

Speaking of literal meanings, do they no longer teach the difference between average and the median?  Sorry for the disruption in your arguing, please proceed.

  Kyleran

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Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 18804

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8/27/13 6:09:18 PM#37
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Cecropia

I seem to remember some time ago an mmorpg.com staffer chiming in in a similar thread stating that they were covering X non-MMO title because the people that visited the site had shown great interest in it.

Perhaps someone on the mmorpg.com payroll could jump into this thread to clarify the issue. Do you guys believe that a lobby based shooter such as WOT is an MMO, or just a lobby based shooter that has stolen a handful of MMO features such as character progression etc.? Because this would in turn qualify Combat Arms as an mmo. Where does this end really?

Anyways, I would love to hear from someone from this site if you happen to be in the neighbourhood.

The staff on this site have a very VERY loose definition of what MMORPG means. Reall they're just an online game website, they'll cover anything if there's any interest or money to be made off it.

Hell, Age of Empires Online is even on this site, and that game lets you play with a MAX of 4 people.

Eventually they'll even list Madden 25 on it, you watch.

 

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  JasonJ

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 414

8/27/13 6:13:25 PM#38

Well well well, this and other sites say something and thus it must be true!

So I guess this means that all those ultra-conservative sites that said if Obama got re-elected it would bring 1000 years of darkness were right!

Afterall, they said it...

Nope, sorry. I also don't care how many of them call Freemium games F2P games, they are not.

  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 6581

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

8/27/13 7:31:03 PM#39

Well i would prefer a crammed pack content game in a small area on release,but a game most definitely needs to be really massive within a short period of time.

You don't want the entire population tripping over each other's toes.You also don't want everyone doing the exact same boss,fighting for the exact same drops,nodes.Problem with going big of course si you need a lot more work to fill that game world in.

This is why lazy developers like to make instances,they don't have to worry about players being crowded because they never see each other fighting the EXACT same  Boss.it is not even an argument,instances are exactly like a single player game,or i guess a co op game,you are not competing or playing in the same world as everyone else,you are in your own instance.

The whole idea of a M<MO is to be in a massive world and massively populated,if you are always in instances by your self or a few others,it is less of an MMO than say an arena FPS,Quake/UT99/GOW ect ect.

The only thing i don't like about massive is when devs separate everyone by levels.I don't want to know you MUST all go to certain areas for your level,there should be a mixed ECO system,a system with realism,creatures and people don't inhabit our world based on levels lol.

 

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  iixviiiix

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/04/13
Posts: 445

8/27/13 8:06:34 PM#40

You can't count number of player can join or will join, then it massive

You can count the limit of player 2/4/10/20/40/100/1000 (lol) then it just multiplayer , if it only 1 player then it singleplayer game.

4/8/10 players game are multiplayer game. because it limit for 4/8/10 players only

It same to 40/80 players limit game.

So i can call a game multiplayer even it have limit to 1000 players , as long as there are limit number of player , call it multiplayer game.

 

But in MMO , the number of player can join don't limit by game (it don't say this game only for 1000 people) but limit by how much game server can hand. It can go from 2 players to 1000 to 1mil or even more (no limit by game), the number of player depend on how strong the server is ,

but the game itself don't limit how many player can join in. That's why it called MMO massive multiplayer

 

Just do some search about what massive after my old topic.

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