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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] Elder Scrolls Online: Yes, Virginia, It’s Pay to Play

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90 posts found

Novice Member

Joined: 9/09/06
Posts: 1014

9/06/13 12:32:34 PM#81
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Zairu


Why 15$? they don't need that much to maintain servers and staff. it's not like the idea of 'free server' games is outlandish. it is actually MORE common to find a game with a free server than one you pay to access monthly. This scam only exists within MMO's. and it is not very justified when most of the sharded pieces of broken up game world's in MMO's are no more advanced than the maps in rts games, or games of other genres.

 15$ might not be much money at all, but it is a waste if you aren't playing.


My guess is that they need more money to not only make back their investment but to continue their investment.

Let's say they sell 2 million boxes at 60.00 per box. 120 million. If their game cost 160 million to make then they fall short. Not only do they not make back their initial investment, they have nothing to drive development.

And the "kicker" is that they don't keep all that 120 million. It's not like every box sale goes directly in the developer's pockets. When I was in retail so, so, long ago, it was common for stores to double what they paid for the product they brought. I don't think it's different now.

So that's only 30 dollars per item. Now some of that might go to a distributor but some might not with direct downloads. But you can start seeing that the game companies are not keepign every dime per sale.

So now we have a 160 million (or whatever) game that doesn't even make back it's investment on the initial run. And they still have to continue development. Who is going to buy an mmo if the game company might fold at launch?

To develop, launch and continually develop an mmo takes more than an initial box sale. Even GW2 has a cash shop.

All that $15 per month does is make it so everyone shares in the costs of the game and not put all of that on the few people who are willing to pay more and who might be fickle and leave at the drop of a dime.

As far as the other statment, that's silly. I have a gym membership, does that mean I have to go for several hours per day every day in order to feel like it's money well spent?

I pay a minimum amount per month for my cell phone. If I'm not making lots of calls does that mean I'm throwing out money?

You pay for access and the ability to access whenever you want.


smart people are so annoying




Novice Member

Joined: 4/17/05
Posts: 7

Never say don''t listen to what you say, it just doesn''t make sense.

9/08/13 7:12:45 PM#82
Originally posted by Torvaldr

I'm really getting tired of this false idea that "if a game is good people will pay outlandish prices for it no matter what".

None of the games that went sub-free are bad, including TOR.  They just couldn't justify a monthly rental bill from their customers.  For me no game is worth renting for $200 a year.  It doesn't matter how deep it is compared to the rest of the herd.

I can get all that depth of play you're talking about for Skyrim for $30 right now.  I pay more for the DLC as it should be.  I can get endless hours of that depth of play without having to pay them more. Why should I rent temporary access to a game at $15 per month?  The game design isn't deep enough and never will be to justify that.

It's not about being better or deep. It's about how much is a game worth.  I can see paying a box fee.  I can see supporting development with extra money through a cash shop and/or DLC content packs.  I can't see renting my games and only being able to play them if I keep paying more.  To me that is the true definition of nickle and diming a customer.

Highlights of the post are underlined, I couldn't agree more with the sentiment here. I've been a long-time player of MMORPGs, starting with FFXI and WoW for paid types and sticking with WoW from a month after launch to patch 5.0 pretty consistently. The money I put into that game just so I could keep playing the character I put literally years into is astronomical for one single game, but that's the model that seems to be the old standby. This model is becoming outdated to a degree, and personally I'm definitely in the camp of not paying exorbitant amounts for a game even if it is F2P(Author used $200 as an example, so I guess there's some wealthy f2p folks).


$15 a month is a fair amount when you take necessities into consideration, and I don't imagine everyone paying that is rolling in dough but they make that payment a priority in their life and that's fine. I think that having an optional payment would be a better model provided the difference isn't too crippling if people want to shell money for premium content, but I have been playing a few f2p games and haven't experienced a community any worse than one of the seemingly elite sub MMOs.


The bottom line is a forced sub is a forced nickel and dime and it takes options away from players when it's the only way to play a game. I'd possibly go for a sub if I had a few friends playing, but they're not wanting to dish money each month for a game either when there's plenty of other options of equivalent quality. Fact of the matter is, I'd like to buy a game and have it stop there so I can own my character and do as I please in regards to DLC or whatever else.


Novice Member

Joined: 10/06/13
Posts: 1

10/13/13 10:45:34 AM#83
i would love to play ESO all year non-stop and i would pay the fee gladly, but i'm 15 years old and my parents aren't going to help pay any sort of subscription. So i'm probably not going to be able to afford ESO month after month. Im sure i am not the only kid in this situation checking under couches and vending machines for loose change. 

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 1954

10/13/13 10:47:32 AM#84
I play all F2P MMOS with monthly sub so not an issue for me however i am quite sure that this MMO will follow the same path as Rift, SWTOR etc and go F2P in a year or so.

"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell

"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney


Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 18479

10/13/13 11:11:37 AM#85
Originally posted by Zairu


I buy 'games', not 'membership to access'. (done with that scam)


and I'll gladly pay a box price for a game. I don't expect anything to be free in life. I don't expect companies to entertain me for free. I will gladly pay for a product I want. But you don't own a game if it has a sub. you 'rent it'.

the real question is (for me).

Why 15$? they don't need that much to maintain servers and staff. it's not like the idea of 'free server' games is outlandish. it is actually MORE common to find a game with a free server than one you pay to access monthly. This scam only exists within MMO's. and it is not very justified when most of the sharded pieces of broken up game world's in MMO's are no more advanced than the maps in rts games, or games of other genres.


15$ might not be much money at all, but it is a waste if you aren't playing. it is tedious and tiresome (and maybe impossible) to try and 'estimate' how long you are going to have fun playing a game. I have wasted too much money in the past on games with subs, because 'fun' is not a predetermined matter and I might lose my spark at the end of the month after I have already been billed, just to cancel it and then get the spark again out of nowhere, and have to decide if it is worth turning it back on or not. I got to the point, where I just don't.

I don't want that to EVER be a part of my gaming experience again.



Then how do you propose, given that these games cost far more than your "box price" will cover, the game remain financially viable?

If the game costs 100 million to make and the game costs 59.99 then over 1 million and 666 thousand players need to buy that box BUT the developer doesn't even keep all that money so it needs to be even more people.

And then that's it, game over because that is just covering the initial investment.

So your box price covers 1 month's play and the game folds.

They won't even have enough to make an expansion.

So they have to either charge a subscription or sell fancy hats with the hope that enough people by those hats to keep the game going.

I can't subscribe to your idea of "I won't pay 15 per month because it's a waste if you aren't playing" idea. I have a gym membership and I don't go every minute of the day. I have a phone plan and I don't feel like I have to use every allotted minute under that plan or else it's a waste.

One pays 15 (or whatever) per month and you can play as much or as little as your heart desires. You can play every day for 16 hours a day if you want.

You can play 1 hour per day if you want and that is still a better bargain than going to the movies where you pay 12 dollars for 2 hours of entertainment.


Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/10/13
Posts: 986

10/13/13 11:22:50 AM#86

If the game is fun then I have no qualms paying a sub fee.

However paying a retail price of $60 plus monthly fee just to do a "trial" I have issues with.  I'm sick of paying $75-$90 on every new MMO to just try a game out since they never offer trial versions so one can really try the game.  I'll be waiting on the sidelines for user reviews and for some sort of trial.


Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/15/04
Posts: 238

10/13/13 11:32:16 AM#87
As much as I like the idea of ESO, I just have this bad feeling about the game failing to deliver.  Hoping to be able to give it a try before I buy, be it some form of beta or stress test.   I don't mind paying a sub for a good game, as long as the cash shop is cosmetic.

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/11/06
Posts: 1081

10/13/13 11:36:32 AM#88
Originally posted by Kaynos1972
It all goes down to the fun factor. If i'm having fun i have no problem paying 15$ a month.

same here , if they bring me TES game without limitations no big deal to pay 15$ monthly

only EVE is real MMO...but I am impressive with TSW


MMO Business Correspondent

Joined: 2/16/09
Posts: 1151

10/13/13 11:42:53 AM#89
Originally posted by Zairu


I buy 'games', not 'membership to access'. (done with that scam)

You should really look up the definition of the word "scam," because you clearly don't understand what it means. 

Check out my monthly column on


Advanced Member

Joined: 6/13/13
Posts: 584

10/13/13 11:47:52 AM#90
P2P and in game cash shop too? That's retarded...
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