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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] Elder Scrolls Online: Yes, Virginia, It’s Pay to Play

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90 posts found
  Arndush

Novice Member

Joined: 10/27/09
Posts: 309

8/27/13 2:33:34 PM#21
Originally posted by JasonJ

"Just a few days after it was announced, I am already sick of all the talk surrounding the price model of Elder Scrolls Online. I do not understand..."

We know you don't understand, you are disconnected from reality and gamers are SICK OF ALL THE MORONIC DEFENSE OF AN OUTDATED PAY MODEL DESIGNED AROUND A LIE."

 

He just said what he thought they needed to do in order to succeed. That the content and quality of the game was more important than the pricing model. He didn't say that they were actually delivering.

  Nasa

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/21/04
Posts: 314

8/27/13 2:33:43 PM#22
A title from Massively made me laugh: "The Elder Subs Online"
  Brabbit1987

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 644

8/27/13 2:38:36 PM#23
Originally posted by rygard49
Originally posted by Brabbit1987

I somewhat feel this is totally the wrong way to look at it. Ya sure, as long as the game is good people are willing to pay. However, just how many are we actually talking about here?

How many what? People?

Saying money isn't a concern if the game is good, is just simply not true at all. This is the same reason why people don't go out to the store buying the most expensive of what they are looking for. They usually try to get the cheapest or something in between if they are able to.

Of course where it stands, it all comes down to quality. However, there is a point where the difference in quality is so little, that the price doesn't seem worth it, unless you are an enthusiast. ESO from what I have seen doesn't show nearly enough for it to really justify it to cost $60 +$15/month.

There's a cost/benefit analysis that runs in your mind before making any purchase. Is the product you're buying worth the amount that you're willing to spend? You performed that same subjective analysis in your last paragraph.

Here's where I take issue with your post. You assert that people never look for the most expensive whatever-it-is, and they only look for the cheapest products.  That may be subjectively true for you and some others, but certainly not true for most people, and certainly it's not as dumbed down as you try to make it seem.

Most people have a budget set for their purchase, and an idea for what worth you're going to get from that budget. If your budget allows for the most expensive stereo, and the most expensive stereo has every feature you want that the others don't, and a better quality, you're going to get the most expensive stereo. If there's a less expensive model with most of the features you want and reasonable quality, you might decide to save some money and get that. It's all on dependent on that cost/benefit measure going on in your head. What will get you the most value for the money you're about to spend.

That's the point here. It doesn't matter what the price model is. Game boxes are all the same price on release anyway, and whether you pay a sub or buy items from the cash shop, all that truly matters is whether the game is worth that expenditure.

For you, it isn't. On to the next game then.

I agree with what I say here, but that doesn't change the fact you are paying for the most expensive and getting quality in return. My point was, you don't get the most expensive if the quality isn't that much different.

Example: A quality car you can buy for $20,000. However, there are cars that cost upward beyond $100,000 to $1,000,000.  People don't just go out and buy the most expensive thing like that. Of course they follow their budget and it also has a lot to do with quality.

Also, you are right, if people HAVE the money, they are more likely to pay more for something. That doesn't mean the price is justifiable. Someone can be bad all they want with their money. That really wasn't the point I was trying to make.

Even if there is a percentage of people that pay for the most expensive item, just to do so, doesn't change much. That percentage is very likely to be fairly low.

  Razeekster

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 7/09/11
Posts: 1881

May the game be ever in your favor.

8/27/13 2:40:48 PM#24
Originally posted by brihtwulf

I think the argument that the game has to be pay-to-play to be quality or not force you to buy things is not a fair one.  Look at Guild Wars 2, for example, or Defiance.  I think the issue that needs to be considered here is "what is this game offering me that the others aren't, and is it worth paying full price and $15 a month for that different aspect?"  Yes, it is about fun first and foremost, but there is also the important factor of competition and don't forget player expectations.  There are many ways to do "free to play" and a variety of hybrid models that have rewarded subscribers while not "punishing" more casual players who don't want to pay full fees for a game they don't regularly get on.

 

There are a lot of casual gamers coming into the MMO genre, and many adults who have been part of it for over a decade but now have families and other responsibilities that make them play less often.  So, subscriptions are often a reason for those mature gamers to quit playing or avoid starting because they feel like they are wasting money to play 15-20 hours a month.

You're saying Defiance is a quality AAA MMORPG? Okaaaay lol

 

Smile

  IridescentOrk

Novice Member

Joined: 5/27/13
Posts: 160

8/27/13 3:00:59 PM#25
The real Elder Scrolls games are Morrowind, Oblivion, etc...where there is immersion in every corner of the world; in TESO as soon as you finish your arch quests, immersion goes down the toilet with heroes all over Tamriel called "dragon" something and a war that doesn't make sense. The factions doesn't make sense. Period. This is another SWTOR all over, using a big IP for the cash grab. At least SWTOR had the factions right.

gameplay > graphics

  GrumpyMel2

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/24/09
Posts: 1789

8/27/13 3:03:27 PM#26

Nice article. The bottom line as you aptly pointed out is a very minor concern when compared to whether the game is any FUN or not. In fact, it really only starts to be a concern when it negatively impacts the fun of a game and Developers seem to have realized that "F2P" is not some sort of magic bullet for earning revenue.

Frankly I have no idea whether ESO will be any fun at all or worth the price of admission. I do know that $15 per month is not a very significant purchasing decision out of most peoples entertainment budget these days. It's less then the cost of going to see a movie in the theatres by yourself with a bag of popcorn. Very few people are going to lose any sleep deciding over that. The only people really priced out of that market are the folks who might be playing a dozen MMO's every month....and clearly that's not ESO's target audience.

However, no one is going to maintain a sub if the game isn't fun and engaging over the long term. No one pays for a service they don't end up using regularly. THAT's ESO's critical hurdle. We'll just have to wait and see on that one.

  JasonJ

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 414

8/27/13 3:09:59 PM#27
Originally posted by Arndush
Originally posted by JasonJ

"Just a few days after it was announced, I am already sick of all the talk surrounding the price model of Elder Scrolls Online. I do not understand..."

We know you don't understand, you are disconnected from reality and gamers are SICK OF ALL THE MORONIC DEFENSE OF AN OUTDATED PAY MODEL DESIGNED AROUND A LIE."

 

He just said what he thought they needed to do in order to succeed. That the content and quality of the game was more important than the pricing model. He didn't say that they were actually delivering.

 No, he told us to stop complaining about the price model and then went on to speak about how we will be getting what we always get from Bethesda games...something this is NOT. Zenimax Studios is NOT Bethesda and even went so far as to tell us the game is all good by giving a bunch of company talking points.

This is just a mouthpiece article.

If it was written by someone able to give an actual personal opinion and not a corporate one the first paragraph would have ended with something other than "That is the real question we should all be asking, and ultimately the payment model will matter less than this important fact." Because the IMPORTANT FACT coming from the vast majority of people complaining has NOTHING TO DO WITH WANTING A FREE MMORPG...since the majority of those complaining DONT PLAY MMORPGS, they play TES GAMES.

The IMPORTANT question is WHY IS ZENIMAX trying to target TES fans, trying to distance themselves from the MMO label to get those fans, yet are doing everything they can to seem to drive those very fans away. A monthly sub is just ONE in a LONG LINE of WTFH are you doing moves!

Stop acting like this is the first time there has been a massive outcry from TES fans about this game.

  Darth-Batman

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/26/05
Posts: 707

Bruce, I am your father.

8/27/13 3:11:15 PM#28
As long as its not a sub with an item shop. Its still hard to pay for a sub after playing gw2 though but I am an elder scrolls fan so i'll have to give it a try, at least for a month.
  SirFubar

Novice Member

Joined: 7/21/11
Posts: 403

8/27/13 3:12:12 PM#29

"There is one thing people forget about MMOs when talking about the hype of the price model and it is simple…is the game in question good? Zenimax Online has a much bigger responsibility to meet for its players and that is to build a solid game. That is the real question we should all be asking, and ultimately the payment model will matter less than this important fact."

This exactly. But from what we know so far and the fact that the game will be released on consoles, I really doubt it will be worth 15$/month to play. I also really doubt we will see a decent playerbase on console, I don't know many consoles players who will be willing to pay to play a game.

So, IMHO, the games has more chances to become F2P soon after it's release or the player base will just start dropping quickly since most people will be disappointed to pay that amount of money to play the game and will switch to the new ones. If we have a "Skyrim Online MMO" experience, then sure most people wouldn't care about this payment model, but seeing how the game is, it's not worth a sub at all IMO.

No themepark MMO since vanilla WoW had the quality, content, fun aspect to be worth a sub and I highly doubt ESO will change that. Just like I wouldn't pay a sub to play GW2.

 

  JasonJ

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 414

8/27/13 3:17:01 PM#30
Originally posted by Darth-Batman
As long as its not a sub with an item shop. Its still hard to pay for a sub after playing gw2 though but I am an elder scrolls fan so i'll have to give it a try, at least for a month.

 It will have a shop. What items it will have we don't know yet.

  Shadanwolf

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/13/10
Posts: 1867

8/27/13 3:23:33 PM#31

OK...your going to have to pay 2x

-the game purchase

-the monthly fee

 

All I can say is they better have one heck of an open beta.No way I'm paying and hoping for a game I like.

  GrumpyMel2

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/24/09
Posts: 1789

8/27/13 3:23:40 PM#32
Originally posted by Brabbit1987
Originally posted by rygard49
Originally posted by Brabbit1987

I somewhat feel this is totally the wrong way to look at it. Ya sure, as long as the game is good people are willing to pay. However, just how many are we actually talking about here?

How many what? People?

Saying money isn't a concern if the game is good, is just simply not true at all. This is the same reason why people don't go out to the store buying the most expensive of what they are looking for. They usually try to get the cheapest or something in between if they are able to.

Of course where it stands, it all comes down to quality. However, there is a point where the difference in quality is so little, that the price doesn't seem worth it, unless you are an enthusiast. ESO from what I have seen doesn't show nearly enough for it to really justify it to cost $60 +$15/month.

There's a cost/benefit analysis that runs in your mind before making any purchase. Is the product you're buying worth the amount that you're willing to spend? You performed that same subjective analysis in your last paragraph.

Here's where I take issue with your post. You assert that people never look for the most expensive whatever-it-is, and they only look for the cheapest products.  That may be subjectively true for you and some others, but certainly not true for most people, and certainly it's not as dumbed down as you try to make it seem.

Most people have a budget set for their purchase, and an idea for what worth you're going to get from that budget. If your budget allows for the most expensive stereo, and the most expensive stereo has every feature you want that the others don't, and a better quality, you're going to get the most expensive stereo. If there's a less expensive model with most of the features you want and reasonable quality, you might decide to save some money and get that. It's all on dependent on that cost/benefit measure going on in your head. What will get you the most value for the money you're about to spend.

That's the point here. It doesn't matter what the price model is. Game boxes are all the same price on release anyway, and whether you pay a sub or buy items from the cash shop, all that truly matters is whether the game is worth that expenditure.

For you, it isn't. On to the next game then.

I agree with what I say here, but that doesn't change the fact you are paying for the most expensive and getting quality in return. My point was, you don't get the most expensive if the quality isn't that much different.

Example: A quality car you can buy for $20,000. However, there are cars that cost upward beyond $100,000 to $1,000,000.  People don't just go out and buy the most expensive thing like that. Of course they follow their budget and it also has a lot to do with quality.

Also, you are right, if people HAVE the money, they are more likely to pay more for something. That doesn't mean the price is justifiable. Someone can be bad all they want with their money. That really wasn't the point I was trying to make.

Even if there is a percentage of people that pay for the most expensive item, just to do so, doesn't change much. That percentage is very likely to be fairly low.

I think you are missing the point a bit. Below a certain price point, the average person just isn't going to place price very high up on thier list of considerations about making a purchase. Where that exact point is will be different for everyone both based upon thier personality and the percentage of thier income (and overall financial situation) the purchase represents.

For example, a car is a very large expenditure compared to most peoples incomes. The price being charged is going to factor very heavly in the purchasing decision. On the other hand, alot of folks aren't going to fret much over the cost of fries at McDonalds vs the cost of fries at Burger King if they take thier kids out to eat once a month. It'll be whatever the kids like better or whatever is in a more convenient location for Mom and Dad or the place that looks cleaner or that has the "friendlier staff", etc....alot of people won't even be able to tell you what the price of the fries are off the top of thier heads.

It's all about what the cost represents to the person. If it's not percieved as much of a hit out of the wallet....it just doesn't enter into the purchasing decision all that much.

 

  Sinaku

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 450

8/27/13 3:29:38 PM#33


Originally posted by Kaynos1972
It all goes down to the fun factor. If i'm having fun i have no problem paying 15$ a month.

This. Also I know that with most games having a sub fee that there isnt a cash shop ruining the game and giving people a great edge to me.

  Vercin

Novice Member

Joined: 3/18/04
Posts: 293

8/27/13 3:33:08 PM#34
I prefer the sub model, keeps me from wondering why I spent 700$ in 2 months on a game.

The Stranger: It's what people know about themselves inside that makes 'em afraid.

  nuttob

Novice Member

Joined: 10/25/11
Posts: 222

8/27/13 3:36:45 PM#35
I find that it doesn't matter how good a game is.  Players have different attention spans when it comes to games.  Most of them are short...
  AtrusV

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/21/07
Posts: 292

8/27/13 3:53:18 PM#36
I'm not too hyped with this game, so it's a win-win situation for me (and for anyone who takes the advice) If the players' reviews tell this game has severe lacks, simply wait until it becomes F2P (it's just matter of time) However, if it proves to be the spiritual sequel of DAoC, I'll consider paying for it. But it will be the rarest case. I have spent enough time in mmorpgs to detect pretentious games just after a couple of reviews.

  Aroukos

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/13/13
Posts: 584

8/27/13 4:01:11 PM#37
p2p? no thank you sir. too much money on sub games thrown away the last few years. too many fail p2p games and many descent f2p titles anymore. so no thank you, i prefer to stay in RIFT until Archeage and EQ Next comes out. Both will be f2p btw
  deveilblad

Novice Member

Joined: 4/25/13
Posts: 149

8/27/13 4:02:20 PM#38
Originally posted by brihtwulf

I think the argument that the game has to be pay-to-play to be quality or not force you to buy things is not a fair one.  Look at Guild Wars 2, for example, or Defiance.  I think the issue that needs to be considered here is "what is this game offering me that the others aren't, and is it worth paying full price and $15 a month for that different aspect?"  Yes, it is about fun first and foremost, but there is also the important factor of competition and don't forget player expectations.  There are many ways to do "free to play" and a variety of hybrid models that have rewarded subscribers while not "punishing" more casual players who don't want to pay full fees for a game they don't regularly get on.

 

There are a lot of casual gamers coming into the MMO genre, and many adults who have been part of it for over a decade but now have families and other responsibilities that make them play less often.  So, subscriptions are often a reason for those mature gamers to quit playing or avoid starting because they feel like they are wasting money to play 15-20 hours a month.

Even if you play 15 hours in the whole month... Its still 1$ an hour ; where can can you get enjoyment for that amount ?

 

dont teat at mcdonalds two times in the month and youve got your money and youre heatlhier. See ? MMOs make you healthy ! Lol

  Badaboom

Elite Member

Joined: 10/04/10
Posts: 2376

8/27/13 4:09:03 PM#39
Sub model is the best payment model.  I'm an older player and view the $15.00/month that I pay for is the "service fee" to play.  The MMO is a everchanging world, thus the justification for the charge.  However, as an older player, the last thing that I want to do is pay real money for a virtual item.  It's much easier for me to believe that I'm paying for a service instead of virtual sparkly items.  Just saying it makes me think I'm to old for this shit.
  grammiton

Novice Member

Joined: 9/18/05
Posts: 2

8/27/13 4:15:39 PM#40

It's tough. I payed a sub fee for World of Warcraft for probably 4-5 years. That's almost $1,000 and I don't regret it. Not all anyway (looking at you, Mists...). I'm sure that if the game is good, it's well justified, blah blah blah.

Consider this, however. Right now I'm playing a fantastic game that has tons of content, is updated regularly, and has recently gone sub-free: RIFT. Having purchased Guild Wars 2, I could log into that and play completely free of charge for the considerable future, and that game is also great and updated regularly (almost too much so, imo).

I just need more incentive than that. ESO, Wildstar, and FFXIV need to consider that they have more competition than just each other and other sub games, there are some very powerful free to play contenders in the mix.

And lets not forget the looming giant EQ Next is supposedly Free-to-Play as well...

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