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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Number one reason why this game will fail hard

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37 posts found
  Komandor

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/17/09
Posts: 260

 
OP  8/25/13 7:23:20 AM#1
No PVP and no player looting. Typical carebare BS. Modern day MMO devs are behaving like clowns: "HERP A DERPA, There are 99% MMOS on Market with carbare catering and no HARDCORE PVP...LET'S MAKE ANOTHER ONE!" Yeah, people have achieved a lot with copying others and not being innovative.

Keep on rockin'!

  Burntvet

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/16/07
Posts: 2747

8/25/13 7:30:44 AM#2

Personally, I lost most interest when the devs came out and said, "Each player will be in their own instanced universe..." or words to that effect.

So not only can players not really influence the world, but they can't even affect what other players do/see/interact with.

In the end, it will likely do "well enough" because some people will play anything. But I don't expect ESO to be anything special, either. (Too many compromises to gameplay and too much "That's too hard...." from the devs.)

 

 

 

  Vonatar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/18/10
Posts: 573

8/25/13 7:40:10 AM#3
Originally posted by Komandor
No PVP and no player looting. Typical carebare BS. Modern day MMO devs are behaving like clowns: "HERP A DERPA, There are 99% MMOS on Market with carbare catering and no HARDCORE PVP...LET'S MAKE ANOTHER ONE!" Yeah, people have achieved a lot with copying others and not being innovative.

There isn't a single full loot pvp game on the market that has come anywhere close to the success of the types of games you label as "carebear catering", and even EVE fits into that description. The reason is that only a small minority like full loot pvp games. There is no good commercial reason for publishers and developers to cater for such a minority, which is why that group of players relies on indie games (like the upcoming Divergence Online) and probably feels unloved by the major companies.

  Komandor

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/17/09
Posts: 260

 
OP  8/25/13 7:45:54 AM#4
Originally posted by Vonatar
Originally posted by Komandor
No PVP and no player looting. Typical carebare BS. Modern day MMO devs are behaving like clowns: "HERP A DERPA, There are 99% MMOS on Market with carbare catering and no HARDCORE PVP...LET'S MAKE ANOTHER ONE!" Yeah, people have achieved a lot with copying others and not being innovative.

There isn't a single full loot pvp game on the market that has come anywhere close to the success of the types of games you label as "carebear catering", and even EVE fits into that description. The reason is that only a small minority like full loot pvp games. There is no good commercial reason for publishers and developers to cater for such a minority, which is why that group of players relies on indie games (like the upcoming Divergence Online) and probably feels unloved by the major companies.

 

What is Ultima Online. EVE is hardcore too

Keep on rockin'!

  Latronus

Novice Member

Joined: 1/10/08
Posts: 718

PC is not political correctness, it means Political Cowardice!

8/25/13 7:45:56 AM#5
Originally posted by Komandor
No PVP and no player looting. Typical carebare BS. Modern day MMO devs are behaving like clowns: "HERP A DERPA, There are 99% MMOS on Market with carbare catering and no HARDCORE PVP...LET'S MAKE ANOTHER ONE!" Yeah, people have achieved a lot with copying others and not being innovative.

That's because your HARDCORE PVP is a FAIL.  Always has been and always will be.  There aren't enough of you overinflated egomaniacs out there to keep a game such as you want afloat.  Deal with it.

  Vonatar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/18/10
Posts: 573

8/25/13 7:49:01 AM#6
Originally posted by Komandor
Originally posted by Vonatar
Originally posted by Komandor
No PVP and no player looting. Typical carebare BS. Modern day MMO devs are behaving like clowns: "HERP A DERPA, There are 99% MMOS on Market with carbare catering and no HARDCORE PVP...LET'S MAKE ANOTHER ONE!" Yeah, people have achieved a lot with copying others and not being innovative.

There isn't a single full loot pvp game on the market that has come anywhere close to the success of the types of games you label as "carebear catering", and even EVE fits into that description. The reason is that only a small minority like full loot pvp games. There is no good commercial reason for publishers and developers to cater for such a minority, which is why that group of players relies on indie games (like the upcoming Divergence Online) and probably feels unloved by the major companies.

 

What is Ultima Online. EVE is hardcore too

And neither are as successful as "carebear catering" games. Is my point.

  Lord.Bachus

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8591

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

8/25/13 8:29:40 AM#7

You fooled me...

 

 

I was expecting an orriginal reason...

 

 

well, maybe time will learn you to accept that 99% of all players dont like player looting, resulting in all AAA+ MMOs not supporting this feature. the last major game with this feature was UO, and there is a reason for this.  Feutures like this prevented UO from growing and  attracting new gamers.

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  Kuanshu

Novice Member

Joined: 5/19/04
Posts: 277

8/25/13 9:36:07 AM#8
Originally posted by Komandor
No PVP and no player looting. Typical carebare BS. Modern day MMO devs are behaving like clowns: "HERP A DERPA, There are 99% MMOS on Market with carbare catering and no HARDCORE PVP...LET'S MAKE ANOTHER ONE!" Yeah, people have achieved a lot with copying others and not being innovative.

Uh not sure where you've been as there is a massive PvP zone called Cryodiil and it has dynamic PvP with Siege warfare, Keeps, Alliance vs Alliance, etc...

Player looting is only going to occur in games designed entirely with Non Consensual Open World PvP in mind

Elder Scrolls Online is the name of the game, take some time to catch up on the info train before you troll these forums

 

  Sleepyfish

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/25/09
Posts: 347

8/25/13 11:58:50 AM#9
Originally posted by Kuanshu
Originally posted by Komandor
No PVP and no player looting. Typical carebare BS. Modern day MMO devs are behaving like clowns: "HERP A DERPA, There are 99% MMOS on Market with carbare catering and no HARDCORE PVP...LET'S MAKE ANOTHER ONE!" Yeah, people have achieved a lot with copying others and not being innovative.

Uh not sure where you've been as there is a massive PvP zone called Cryodiil and it has dynamic PvP with Siege warfare, Keeps, Alliance vs Alliance, etc...

Player looting is only going to occur in games designed entirely with Non Consensual Open World PvP in mind

Elder Scrolls Online is the name of the game, take some time to catch up on the info train before you troll these forums

 

I am not actually an advocate for full loot in most cases I do think it is a niche market for that. However on the point of no world pvp OP is correct. Centralized pvp areas or instances are not world pvp, I think of them more as events, just as Arena is another type of pvp event. There is a point to be made that the most successful mmorpgs do indeed have world pvp even if that world pvp has lots of save zones and brutally powerful town guards. The worry with this game is its doing the same mistakes GW2 made, thinking they can simply make a casual pve game with some warzones and call it a day. 

Now  if the naysayers are right and the PVE is not challenging then you will really have problems because then the entire game is about fighting over the middle. Then you have to ask yourself how long do I want to do this same thing with my character, like doing the same battleground however large forever will get boring at some point. Which means they are depending on players the be so enthralled by elder scrolls lore that they will not notice there is not much else for them to do other than run pve quests and jump in the massive warzone in the middle. Looks like the GW2 formula to me. 

I have also played every Elder Scrolls game from the beginning and most of us have already enjoyed the pve aspect of the games, the point in making this an mmorpg should not be to take away to one reason most of us wanted an mmo for Elder Scrolls in the first place interaction with other players. This no no bullying PC stuff is just going to make people bored and in a few months like GW2 they will leave. 

And to put it delicately I know a certain player group does not like being messed with when they are questing, gathering, hunting, etc. But those elements have to be in the game for it to hold interest. PVP is not niche thats like calling PVE niche just because some PVE is done in RAIDS, There are a ton of casual pvpers in every pvp zone on ever major mmorpg title. WOW, EVE, Lineage, etc. 

  Robokapp

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4605

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

8/25/13 12:03:43 PM#10
Originally posted by Latronus
Originally posted by Komandor
No PVP and no player looting. Typical carebare BS. Modern day MMO devs are behaving like clowns: "HERP A DERPA, There are 99% MMOS on Market with carbare catering and no HARDCORE PVP...LET'S MAKE ANOTHER ONE!" Yeah, people have achieved a lot with copying others and not being innovative.

That's because your HARDCORE PVP is a FAIL.  Always has been and always will be.  There aren't enough of you overinflated egomaniacs out there to keep a game such as you want afloat.  Deal with it.

EVE's growing. How's your MMO doing ?

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5680

8/25/13 12:05:52 PM#11
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by Latronus
Originally posted by Komandor
No PVP and no player looting. Typical carebare BS. Modern day MMO devs are behaving like clowns: "HERP A DERPA, There are 99% MMOS on Market with carbare catering and no HARDCORE PVP...LET'S MAKE ANOTHER ONE!" Yeah, people have achieved a lot with copying others and not being innovative.

That's because your HARDCORE PVP is a FAIL.  Always has been and always will be.  There aren't enough of you overinflated egomaniacs out there to keep a game such as you want afloat.  Deal with it.

EVE's growing. How's your MMO doing ?

Their players are buying more accounts, but I guess that counts.

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  Brabbit1987

Elite Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 665

8/25/13 12:06:48 PM#12
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by Latronus
Originally posted by Komandor
No PVP and no player looting. Typical carebare BS. Modern day MMO devs are behaving like clowns: "HERP A DERPA, There are 99% MMOS on Market with carbare catering and no HARDCORE PVP...LET'S MAKE ANOTHER ONE!" Yeah, people have achieved a lot with copying others and not being innovative.

That's because your HARDCORE PVP is a FAIL.  Always has been and always will be.  There aren't enough of you overinflated egomaniacs out there to keep a game such as you want afloat.  Deal with it.

EVE's growing. How's your MMO doing ?

I don't even know how you can compare EVE to a fantasy MMO to begin with. What works with EVE may not work with different types of MMOs.

  Reklaw

Elite Member

Joined: 1/07/06
Posts: 6154

The adult I am takes care of most things real life. However my inner-child is a GAMER!!

8/25/13 12:08:20 PM#13
Originally posted by Komandor
No PVP

http://elderscrollsonline.com/en/game-guide/the-alliance-war

http://elderscrollsonline.info/pvp

and no player looting. Typical carebare BS. Modern day MMO devs are behaving like clowns: "HERP A DERPA, There are 99% MMOS on Market with carbare catering and no HARDCORE PVP...LET'S MAKE ANOTHER ONE!" Yeah, people have achieved a lot with copying others and not being innovative.

PVP see links

 

True there is no player looting, but that doesn't mean the pvp can be fun, exciting, challenging.....

Have you played it already?

I havn't so I keep judgement untill I actually get a taste of it.

The carebare statement doesn't really seem to apply towards ESO atleast not from what I have read. So again perhaps you OP might have already played the game to come up with your number one reason.

  Reehay

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/15/05
Posts: 178

8/25/13 12:28:55 PM#14

ESO's Matt Frior: "you can solo the entire game." "ESO is not a MMO."

rofl. pass. ya i can do that in Skyrim too and i dont have to pay a subscription. So basically a subscription is for the massive amount of phasing youll experience even with friends playing next to you. So basically 15$ a month so you can play a watered down, inferior version of Skyrim. With weak pvp thrown in.  As much as i'd love a true ES themed MMO.. this just isnt it. Doesnt interest me in the slightest bit.

  Kuanshu

Novice Member

Joined: 5/19/04
Posts: 277

8/25/13 2:27:13 PM#15

Well how about we dispense with the wisenheimer BS concerning how PvP should be in an MMORPG and get right down to the nitty gritty concerning how PvP should be implimented in an Elder Scrolls MMO which is linked to a well established RPG franchise...shall we?

I've participated in enough PvP in MMOs to handle any debate you can bring to these forums derived from your fantastical PvP ideas for ESO.

Take a moment and consider there are plenty of niche PvP MMOs out there which should surely wet any PvP enthusiasts appetite for open world non consensual pvp, even with looting options of players corpses.

So why would anyone want to ruin this franchise with this kind of nonsense as it certainly is entirely as this is a self centered notion at best.

I was one of many who question how challenging PvE is going to be in this game with what I have viewed to date as it isn't hard to find leaked videos of any MMO in development if anyone is really curious, committed and resourceful enough. Though it has been stated that demos and leaked videos shouldn't be taken so seriously as they are beta builds (duh) which shouldn't reflect how the game will be upon release as any of us with any kind of beta experience should comprehend. Im sure the MOBs are on easy mode and will be tweaked throughout beta as spring 2014 is the projected release date. Also, it was stated by Firor himself that certain instanced dungeons difficulty level can be adjusted as I would hope risk vs reward is also taken into account upon the achievement of successful completion of said dungeons (if you catch my drift).

Cryodiil isn't enough? Ever play Dark Age of Camelot? Well thankfully I have and it was considered one of the best PvP MMORPGs and it even had an area dedicated to strictly to PvP much as it is being implimented in ESO. Former DAoC developers are at the helm of ESO and we should have be ecstatic instead of constantly being critical/judgemental constantly wanting, wanting, wanting...

Maybe I am just one of those PvP enthusiasts who desire a challenging PvP opponents who are prepared, resourceful and on the ready to meet any challenge that may come their way in an area designed for PvP in mind; Instead of resorting to ganking, griefing, bushwacking, ambushing, etc... which is all too common in PvP MMOs as many have witnessed firsthand and why open world PvP has such a bad rap.

Hopefully they will allow dueling within alliance areas to resolve any dispute, challenge, exercise, competition, etc...that may arise during gameplay.

So before we continue with this charade concerning how PvP should be implimented in ESO, consider first and foremost this is a well established fanchise called Elder Scrolls that has been around for decades as the very title of the game carries much weight upon the shoulders of those developing it... 

  Sleepyfish

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/25/09
Posts: 347

8/25/13 6:24:11 PM#16

I dont know if PVP implemented this way is right for any game, this is not even true RVR this is a designated battle zone basically like GW2 but not instanced well not totally. Which begs two questions in my mind. One Why have strict factions and not have playable Imperials if you are just fighting over the center of the map. Second  you have these major factions bordering each others actual territory, but they cannot fight each other unless they run towards Daggerfall. So, what happens when I take an Argonian to  Hammerfell, they just have to stare at me until I aggro a town guard?

I mean that cant be true right. This is just over the top, this server structure is very PVE centered. At the least they should have some actual pvp servers with cross faction and the main battlezone otherwise I cant see this being very interesting, so far it is infuriating.

  Darwa

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/04/04
Posts: 2143

8/25/13 6:27:22 PM#17
Originally posted by Komandor

....because KoMandor says so....

Gotcha ;)

  Darwa

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/04/04
Posts: 2143

8/25/13 6:28:26 PM#18
Originally posted by Sleepyfish

I dont know if PVP implemented this way is right for any game, this is not even true RVR this is a designated battle zone basically like GW2 but not instanced well not totally. Which begs two questions in my mind. One Why have strict factions and not have playable Imperials if you are just fighting over the center of the map. Second  you have these major factions bordering each others actual territory, but they cannot fight each other unless they run towards Daggerfall. So, what happens when I take an Argonian to  Hammerfell, they just have to stare at me until I aggro a town guard?

I mean that cant be true right. This is just over the top, this server structure is very PVE centered. At the least they should have some actual pvp servers with cross faction and the main battlezone otherwise I cant see this being very interesting, so far it is infuriating.

Don't type in blue; it makes it difficult to read for people that aren't twats ;)

  gamekid2k

Novice Member

Joined: 6/24/12
Posts: 363

8/25/13 7:24:40 PM#19
Originally posted by Komandor
Originally posted by Vonatar
Originally posted by Komandor
No PVP and no player looting. Typical carebare BS. Modern day MMO devs are behaving like clowns: "HERP A DERPA, There are 99% MMOS on Market with carbare catering and no HARDCORE PVP...LET'S MAKE ANOTHER ONE!" Yeah, people have achieved a lot with copying others and not being innovative.

There isn't a single full loot pvp game on the market that has come anywhere close to the success of the types of games you label as "carebear catering", and even EVE fits into that description. The reason is that only a small minority like full loot pvp games. There is no good commercial reason for publishers and developers to cater for such a minority, which is why that group of players relies on indie games (like the upcoming Divergence Online) and probably feels unloved by the major companies.

 

What is Ultima Online. EVE is hardcore too

 

Don't forget Darkfall another full loot pvp hardcore game. It might not be as complete/polish as EVE/UO but it falls in the same category.  I agree with OP 100%.  We are sick of seeing recycle stuff years after years.  Nothing in ESO is revolutionary.  For me it is GW2 reskined.

Now Playing: DARKFALL Unholy Wars "Return to Open World, Full Loot PvP, Conquest in a Sandbox MMO with player driven economy! Just like classic MMOs!"

  eldaris

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/21/06
Posts: 326

8/25/13 7:41:22 PM#20

Eve is not a good argument regarding ffa pvp games because it has a big part of universe where you can avoid pvp. Played it for 2 years, I was only in pvp a few days when I tried faction warfare.

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