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Diablo 3

Diablo 3 

General Discussion  » Breakdown of new Xpansion Trailer

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43 posts found
  User Deleted
8/24/13 2:04:04 PM#21

Originally posted by Mr.Kujo

Originally posted by TheMaahes

D3 is literally an average aRPG; not terrible, but not good either.

Can you tell me what are the good aRPG's in your opinion. Don't want to make much offtopic, but damn, as a player new to the IP I enjoyed D3 so much, it is one of the best games I played, so if there is an entire world of aRPG's much better than this hidden from me, then I'm all ears.

Torchlight 1/2, Path of Exile, A Quest For Epic Loot, Titan Quest, and of course Diablo 2 + X-Pack.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Betaguy
Like it a lot, can't wait to play...

I don't think many play ARPGs for the story and i certainly i wouldn't pick apart a 5 min intro that the core is setting up good vs bad.

Most don't, A Quest For Epic Loot is proof of that, but Diablo actually has an engaging universe with solid story potential. I actually dislike the aRPG-genre, but D2 sucked me in with the universe (and the Necromancer).

Originally posted by Magnetia

They fucked up the writing royally on this one. 

First of all Cain is dead.

Second of all why the hell am I fighting ANGELS in a game called DIABLO.

Just...it's all....ugh. 

The Horadrim are Human order, created by Tyrael, and the order is not exclusively made up of Cain and the other wizards.

As for the second remark, because Blizzard decided to rush to the end of a already poorly crafted story.

  Gorwe

Elite Member

Joined: 9/16/11
Posts: 1836

8/24/13 7:51:17 PM#22
While we're at the topic of trailer:

Anyone want to discuss about lore of Diablo and any possible reasons why Malthael did what he did? Could be a nice little conversation :D
  User Deleted
8/25/13 10:21:40 AM#23
Originally posted by Gorwe
While we're at the topic of trailer:

Anyone want to discuss about lore of Diablo and any possible reasons why Malthael did what he did? Could be a nice little conversation :D

He disappeared after Tyrael destroyed the Worldstone, unable to comprehend the devastation that the event caused. Having been the Archangel of Wisdom, his thought paths probably lead him down a road to something like, "Everything eventually perishes, so why not embrace Death.". If that is the case, he should now be akin to the Harbinger of Death, becoming the physical manifestation of it. 

I can look into this as much as I want to, but I have the gut feeling that Blizzard is just making him the next boss that people need to kill & loot. I highly doubt we'll get a more detailed story in the expansion. Almost as evidence to this is the end of the cinematic with Malthael taking the Black Soulstone for himself (typical villan thinking he can control the Prime Evils himself, typical lazy Blizzard plotline).

  Shadowguy64

Novice Member

Joined: 4/11/13
Posts: 880

8/25/13 11:21:11 AM#24
Originally posted by TheMaahes
Originally posted by Gorwe
While we're at the topic of trailer:

Anyone want to discuss about lore of Diablo and any possible reasons why Malthael did what he did? Could be a nice little conversation :D

He disappeared after Tyrael destroyed the Worldstone, unable to comprehend the devastation that the event caused. Having been the Archangel of Wisdom, his thought paths probably lead him down a road to something like, "Everything eventually perishes, so why not embrace Death.". If that is the case, he should now be akin to the Harbinger of Death, becoming the physical manifestation of it. 

I can look into this as much as I want to, but I have the gut feeling that Blizzard is just making him the next boss that people need to kill & loot. I highly doubt we'll get a more detailed story in the expansion. Almost as evidence to this is the end of the cinematic with Malthael taking the Black Soulstone for himself (typical villan thinking he can control the Prime Evils himself, typical lazy Blizzard plotline).

 

You almost had a nice post until you threw in that "typical lazy Blizzard" garbage. So close...yet so far. 

  User Deleted
8/25/13 4:09:42 PM#25
Originally posted by Shadowguy64

You almost had a nice post until you threw in that "typical lazy Blizzard" garbage. So close...yet so far. 

When it comes to Blizzard, the only thing I really hammer them for is stories, because they are consistently lazy. Not terrible mind you, but very basic and with little exploration of it inside the actual game. They need to constantly push their writers to come up with better ideas and intricacies. I don't have any beef with them using the plot line of "absolute power corrupts absolutely" (even if it is the same theme from the others), but there is no "meat 'n potatoes" in the story.

This is almost certainly the route they intend to go with Malthael; he goes mad, falls, and joins the Prime Evils. Malthael could be created into something much more complicated though; if he is indeed the physical manifestation of Death in the material realms now, his main opponent in the High Heavens should be Itherael (the archangel of Fate) and that would allow them to explore a new character. Also, he shouldn't join the forces of Hell either, but instead "wage war" against everyone since Death itself is a neutral force. That would expand the general idea of Diablo from the standard good vs. evil as well. Why also would Baal even accept Death as an ally, when (as the Lord of Destruction) he would want to destroy and claim souls for himself. Baal's very nature is to be nihilistic and reckless, the complete opposite nature of ever patient Death. Malthael's only real "ally" among Hell is Diablo himself (Next to Terror itself, Death inspires the most fear in mortals), who should be the weakest member now after scheming against his brothers (who probably won't take too kindly to that).

There is also the big question of: How did he get all those sweet powers? My first thought was there may still be existing remnants of power from Tathamet and Anu in the universe and it would make sense that Malthael may going looking for those associated with Death after his musings over the devastation from the Worldstone's destruction. To re-combine elements of both gods would assumably be considered sacreligious to both Hell and Heaven however, not to mention difficult. Being the Archangel of Wisdom he could have feasibly discovered the means to do so, but it wouldn't explain why he goes after the Black Soulstone though. I wouldn't accept the fact that his madness replaces his accumulated wisdom with the blind arrogance to do that.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20166

8/25/13 4:25:45 PM#26
Originally posted by TheMaahes
 

When it comes to Blizzard, the only thing I really hammer them for is stories, because they are consistently lazy. Not terrible mind you, but very basic and with little exploration of it inside the actual game. They need to constantly push their writers to come up with better ideas and intricacies. I don't have any beef with them using the plot line of "absolute power corrupts absolutely" (even if it is the same theme from the others), but there is no "meat 'n potatoes" in the story.

I would prefer they spend their resources on stuff that matter more to me, like polishing combat (which they do).

The story in D3 works. Given how much time i am spending on farming vs going through the stories .... i am glad they made combat fun.

In fact, things like loot run in the expansion is 1000x more exciting to me, than any stories.

 

  sportsfan

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/20/12
Posts: 382

8/25/13 4:29:50 PM#27
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by TheMaahes
 

When it comes to Blizzard, the only thing I really hammer them for is stories, because they are consistently lazy. Not terrible mind you, but very basic and with little exploration of it inside the actual game. They need to constantly push their writers to come up with better ideas and intricacies. I don't have any beef with them using the plot line of "absolute power corrupts absolutely" (even if it is the same theme from the others), but there is no "meat 'n potatoes" in the story.

I would prefer they spend their resources on stuff that matter more to me, like polishing combat (which they do).

The story in D3 works. Given how much time i am spending on farming vs going through the stories .... i am glad they made combat fun.

In fact, things like loot run in the expansion is 1000x more exciting to me, than any stories.

 

Do not even discuss with this guy. He takes on Blizzard for having a lazy story in an ... Action packed dungeon crawler and then comes up with TL1/2 as being better games.

 

What a joke this guy is.

 

Listen ANYONE, yes ANYONE who comes up with such garbage as TL1/TL2 better then D3 should have his head examined.

It takes exaclty 15 seconds to see the difference in ART style and ENGINE to see the TL garbage and D3.

Not even talking about the excellent combo of hardcore play and hardcore economy (AH) in D3.

Stop insulting our intelligence dude.

 

  Gorwe

Elite Member

Joined: 9/16/11
Posts: 1836

8/26/13 5:38:23 PM#28
But if Malthael has fallen(well...I reckon he has, but seeing how High Heavens themselves tried to kill you for uncovering some secrets in D2, I wouldn't be so sure), what act made him go crazy?

I take it for granted that you know about the balance...

(If not I'll gladly explain)

And Diablo's just fine. The problem is with the game and not with the setting(it being one of better settings I encountered). The game is what it is. A Hack n Slash. That's why I am rooting for Diablo classical(typical RPG set in Diablo universe). One simply can't Expect much from trite stuff such as beat em ups!/Hack n Slashes. While fun, they are very marginal in the story dept. which I find odd seeing how much time, money and, most importantly, love Blizz put into the lore of Diablo.
  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20166

8/27/13 10:47:43 AM#29
Originally posted by Gorwe
One simply can't Expect much from trite stuff such as beat em ups!/Hack n Slashes. While fun, they are very marginal in the story dept. which I find odd seeing how much time, money and, most importantly, love Blizz put into the lore of Diablo.

Agreed.

The cut-scenes are all beautifully produced. The quality of animation is better than most animated movies out there.

But at the end of the day, it is just gravy.

  User Deleted
8/27/13 4:41:56 PM#30

Originally posted by sportsfan

Do not even discuss with this guy. He takes on Blizzard for having a lazy story in an ... Action packed dungeon crawler and then comes up with TL1/2 as being better games.

 

What a joke this guy is.

 

Listen ANYONE, yes ANYONE who comes up with such garbage as TL1/TL2 better then D3 should have his head examined.

It takes exaclty 15 seconds to see the difference in ART style and ENGINE to see the TL garbage and D3.

Not even talking about the excellent combo of hardcore play and hardcore economy (AH) in D3.

Stop insulting our intelligence dude.

 

You're the one that's a joke if you think aRPGs should even have an economy. They sub-genre itself has evolved into grinding out dungeons for items, not buying everything you need off an AH.

And while aRPGs don't need stories (like I said in the same post that you quoted), Diablo's universe is extremely compelling to many people. So forgive us if we like to discuss it.

Originally posted by Gorwe
But if Malthael has fallen(well...I reckon he has, but seeing how High Heavens themselves tried to kill you for uncovering some secrets in D2, I wouldn't be so sure), what act made him go crazy?

I take it for granted that you know about the balance...

(If not I'll gladly explain)

In the overall sense, the destruction of the Worldstone starts his "madness" and I'm guessing he encountered one of the Prime Evils who manipulated him to fall completely (remember, he disappeared quite a bit before the events in D3). Also (at your mentioning of balance), I'm not really sure Blizzard remembers Trag'Oul. The D3 story focused more on aspects of humanity and it being the rising power in the universe; which actually makes no sense when you realize how the Acts unfold. If Hell did indeed invade Heaven, Trag'Oul can very much stop the Prime Evil at will because it is his responsibility towards creation. Blizzard can probably just make the statement of "Trag'Oul's fixing of the situation was actually the Nephalem", but one can go a step further than that and ask "How does he keep the Nephaelm in check then? If they can swing the balance in favor of either faction, shouldn't Trag'Oul destroy the Nephalem entirely (since they actually helped create the Prime Evil)?"

What would be interesting to see would be Malthael as Traq'Oul's Harbinger, come back to release the Prime Evils and destroy the Nephalem in an attempt to restore balance to where it was before Inarius and Lilith created Sanctuary. Afterall, Humanity in the Diablo universe has made the war between Heaven and Hell far more destructive and perilous than it ever had been before; best to get rid of the problem.

  Gorwe

Elite Member

Joined: 9/16/11
Posts: 1836

8/27/13 7:10:15 PM#31
Somehow I doubt that we're going to see Trag(or Trang-I prefer this one, love the ng sound). And it's a mighty shame indeed! But it is what it is(Blizzard). And they love action and awesome stuff. Complicated plots(Starcraft 1, Diablo 1+2 anyone?) are the thing of the past for them. The future is, sadly, filled with Buff looking characters and bazinga! KABOOOOM! explosions and other assorted FX. Shame.

I completely forgot who were the Nephalem. If the memory serves, that term had to sth with Harrogath and barbarians. That and I keep mixing them with RL Nephilim lol! Tho that plot of yours sounds VERY interesting, I highly doubt It'd happen. One good reason is enough. When you ask Blizzard who are the Heroes, the answer you're going to get is "well those that Save the world and all the people". By acting against Malthael and Trang in that example of yours, our Heroes would just be helping Diablo himself lol. He'd try to fix the only error that Angels ever had, we'd resist, more errors would happen...

OH HAI THAR DIABLO 4! (or another expansion)

A good theory maah. Very good indeed.
  User Deleted
8/28/13 8:28:22 AM#32
Originally posted by Gorwe
Somehow I doubt that we're going to see Trag(or Trang-I prefer this one, love the ng sound). And it's a mighty shame indeed! But it is what it is(Blizzard). And they love action and awesome stuff. Complicated plots(Starcraft 1, Diablo 1+2 anyone?) are the thing of the past for them. The future is, sadly, filled with Buff looking characters and bazinga! KABOOOOM! explosions and other assorted FX. Shame.

I completely forgot who were the Nephalem. If the memory serves, that term had to sth with Harrogath and barbarians. That and I keep mixing them with RL Nephilim lol! Tho that plot of yours sounds VERY interesting, I highly doubt It'd happen. One good reason is enough. When you ask Blizzard who are the Heroes, the answer you're going to get is "well those that Save the world and all the people". By acting against Malthael and Trang in that example of yours, our Heroes would just be helping Diablo himself lol. He'd try to fix the only error that Angels ever had, we'd resist, more errors would happen...

OH HAI THAR DIABLO 4! (or another expansion)

A good theory maah. Very good indeed.

The original Nephalem were the direct offspring on Inarius and Lilith and they had the combined power of both races. Through a series of events, the descendants of the Nephalem lost that power until the destruction of the Worldstone at the end of D2 LoD. We then got the new generation of Nephalem (the characters we play in D3) because their power began returning with the absence of the Worldstone. Funny, that gives Traq'Oul even more reason to seek out their destruction; at least before they didn't have powers, now they do.

  Gorwe

Elite Member

Joined: 9/16/11
Posts: 1836

8/28/13 5:18:07 PM#33
So, only Diablo 3(which would include Diablo 2's barbarian as well) characters are Nephalem? Or are the protagonists of the other two as well? I don't think they are seeing how all the Heroes from Tristram(Diablo 1) have fallen. Warrior was...rather well known( ;) ), Rogue was known as the Blood and, if I'm right, that guy who impersonates the Summoner would be the Sorcerer from Diablo 1. Come to think of it:

Is Diablo 3's barbarian just an older version of Diablo 2's? I got lost in Blizz designers' ideas. First it was, then it wasn't and wtf is it now? If you ask me, it is, but that could be true only for my barbarian because his name ends on -Kathos. I thought it wise if an actual heir of Bul's rose up to fight the evil( :D ). So are those two barbs(d2, d3) the exact same person?

As to the lore: Would I be wrong if I said that twas Tyrael that doomed the sanctuary? I mean when he descended from Heavens above, so did Diablo ascend from the Hells below. In his perhaps rather zealous, but ultimately good intended act he unleashed the unspeakable. That which nobody should name, remember or depict. Him Himself-the Lord of Terror. Diablo.

(How could Tyrael be so naive as to forget about the balance? Anyhow, I LOVE Blizzard's version of Prometheus-Tyrael himself. And how he brings doom instead of salvation lol)

And I see that Tyrael just can't learn, can he? He stubbornly remains with the humans, IN the sanctuary as if he is provoking the balance to just churn its wrath upon the sanctuary. Because as long as he is there, the awkward shit is just going to repeat itself in various patterns. Look what happened to the poor world because of his intervention in Diablo 2-it nearly got destroyed! And now he is here again, hoping to help the humans. The only thing he is going to do is provoke evil to strike. And the only way for him to help the sanctuary is for him to simply withdraw and NEVER again meddle with affairs of mortals. Come to think of it, wasn't he punished in the High Heavens because of helping humans? But somehow I doubt that he is ABLE to LEAVE the humans to FEND for THEMSELVES. As long as his hubris stands, so long are the doors to the sanctuary wide open for the hordes of fathomless, unspeakable horrors from the Maw of Burning Hells itself.

Dam that was inspired!
  User Deleted
8/29/13 9:08:50 AM#34
Originally posted by Gorwe
Is Diablo 3's barbarian just an older version of Diablo 2's? I got lost in Blizz designers' ideas. First it was, then it wasn't and wtf is it now? If you ask me, it is, but that could be true only for my barbarian because his name ends on -Kathos. I thought it wise if an actual heir of Bul's rose up to fight the evil( :D ). So are those two barbs(d2, d3) the exact same person?

As to the lore: Would I be wrong if I said that twas Tyrael that doomed the sanctuary? I mean when he descended from Heavens above, so did Diablo ascend from the Hells below. In his perhaps rather zealous, but ultimately good intended act he unleashed the unspeakable. That which nobody should name, remember or depict. Him Himself-the Lord of Terror. Diablo.

(How could Tyrael be so naive as to forget about the balance? Anyhow, I LOVE Blizzard's version of Prometheus-Tyrael himself. And how he brings doom instead of salvation lol)

And I see that Tyrael just can't learn, can he? He stubbornly remains with the humans, IN the sanctuary as if he is provoking the balance to just churn its wrath upon the sanctuary. Because as long as he is there, the awkward shit is just going to repeat itself in various patterns. Look what happened to the poor world because of his intervention in Diablo 2-it nearly got destroyed! And now he is here again, hoping to help the humans. The only thing he is going to do is provoke evil to strike. And the only way for him to help the sanctuary is for him to simply withdraw and NEVER again meddle with affairs of mortals. Come to think of it, wasn't he punished in the High Heavens because of helping humans? But somehow I doubt that he is ABLE to LEAVE the humans to FEND for THEMSELVES. As long as his hubris stands, so long are the doors to the sanctuary wide open for the hordes of fathomless, unspeakable horrors from the Maw of Burning Hells itself.

Dam that was inspired!

No, they are not the same person.

It would be wrong, yes. In The Sin War novels, the Burning Hells discover Sanctuary first and attempt to subvert control over it via the religion called the Triune. The High Heavens only become aware of its existence at the end of the conflict.

Neither the angels or demons know of Traq'Oul's existence. Tyrael does what he does because he is blindly lead by the virtue he personifies, exactly like Imperius. When he destroys the Worldstone, you can actually see this blindness because he considers none of the consequences of the action, just that Baal tainted it and he needs to finish bringing Justice by destroying it. The fact that he became the Archangel of Wisdom at the end of D3 was after all his actions is simply wrong. He was a being created to be Justice, not Wisdom, and by saying his actions in the name of Justice were so Wise that he now personifies Wisdom is completely counter-intuitive. I've always seen him and Imperius as the same beast, and it's why I think Tyrael should wear the brass armor of the Warrior Pantheon instead of the robes for the Scholar Pantheon. They make the same rash decisions, except it's easier for the common person today to relate to Justice instead of Valor, and that is why he is the "hero" in D3.

So, in a way, you are right in thinking Tyrael causes a number of problems. I wish we got to see the Angiris Council's reasoning for making him the Arch-Nephalem(?) of Wisdom. Imperius wouldn't vote for it, Itherael would abstain (like he always does; Fate simply has to run its course), Auriel would vote for it (blindly giving Hope regardless of reason), so who broke the stalement? One could argue that since Tyrael is now a Nephalem, Itherael casted a vote since he can't see that race's Fate, but that is counter to what he personifies, since he would be meddling in destiny and potentially altering it.

  Gorwe

Elite Member

Joined: 9/16/11
Posts: 1836

8/29/13 11:43:49 AM#35
I believe they are the same one. It makes more sense than the opposite, but Hey! We're talking about modern Blizz here...

And the last statement explains quite a lot actually. It seems to me as if Blizz himself forgot about some parts of Diablo and just went for the "McKool" solutions. Whatever makes the least sense, but the most awesome/cool effects is what they choose these days. In all their franchises sadly.
  User Deleted
9/03/13 2:05:03 AM#36
Originally posted by Gorwe
I believe they are the same one. It makes more sense than the opposite, but Hey! We're talking about modern Blizz here...

And the last statement explains quite a lot actually. It seems to me as if Blizz himself forgot about some parts of Diablo and just went for the "McKool" solutions. Whatever makes the least sense, but the most awesome/cool effects is what they choose these days. In all their franchises sadly.

Not overly thrilled about Brian Kindregan's description of the plot here.

  Gorwe

Elite Member

Joined: 9/16/11
Posts: 1836

9/04/13 8:18:23 AM#37

So, about my hardcore characters...

From where do the Monk, Hunter, Wizard and Doctor originate? IE: what are the proper ways of naming them(besides stupid things :D )? 

  PsychoticHamster

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/01/12
Posts: 98

9/04/13 8:24:04 AM#38
The only Nephalem left is you the player. That's why he yell to fund the Nephalem, dragging you into the story.

  mrshroom89

Novice Member

Joined: 11/23/10
Posts: 234

9/04/13 9:41:15 AM#39
Hey bud I don't think anyone actually cares about the story in diablo. And clearly you never beat the hardest difficulty settings if you think people "beat it with their eyes closed". Most people quit because you would get face rolled so hard in inferno b4 the nerf (6+ months after release). Diablo is about slaying monsters and collecting loot, always has been always will be. Hence the largest selling point of this new expansion, random generates levels with random boss encounters.

C

  Gorwe

Elite Member

Joined: 9/16/11
Posts: 1836

9/04/13 1:37:29 PM#40

I care about its story. Hell, I ought to buy the Sin War trilogy. Should even.

But then again, I could be the odd man out. Focusing on the wrong things xD.

But yeah, beating the shit out of monsters and getting generous l0Ot is fun as well.

p.s I hate how Diablo 3 forbids the use of these two signs: - '. So many nice names could be made with those two signs(hell they broke my Barb down to just Bron{or rather Bron with that scandinavian o with a strikethrough-sounds good?}). Doctors could use ' imo by adding 'Iar or 'Amo/'Amu. What a shame. You could do it in d2 btw.

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