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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » [POLL] Still going to play ESO with sub?

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232 posts found
  Grixxitt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/18/12
Posts: 556

8/22/13 8:49:05 AM#41
Originally posted by DMKano
 
Agree with Eleenb4, and I believe that those who pay a subscription are:
  • "more invested" Yea for the first 3 months before unsubbing
  • "more mature" Highly subjective - IMO it makes very little difference
  • and frankly a better class of committed player. Sorry but this is utter bull
I for one am ecstatic that games are  going back to subscription based play.

 

How about...

- Bots screwing up the economy

- Hackers in a PvP game

- Chinese Goldspammers making global and regional chat unusable 

- Squeakers in local

- Griefing with no retribution

- Hackers using many free accounts for money laundering

The above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)

-The MMO Forum Community

  Betaguy

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/31/04
Posts: 2603

Some folks are like Slinkies, totally useless but great fun to watch when pushed down stairs

8/22/13 8:56:43 AM#42
It's the best payment model, I tend to gravitate towards subscription base games.  They hold my attention longer just because I find the communities better than F2P or B2P.  If anything this will be one big reason I play it and because it is going to be a great game.

  Whiskey_Sam

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/12
Posts: 275

Nemo me impune lacessit.

8/22/13 9:06:20 AM#43
Won't be playing ESO, but the sub requirement has nothing to do with it.  I prefer subs over F2P/B2P.

___________________________
Have flask; will travel.

  Cecropia

Gumshoe

Joined: 3/06/09
Posts: 3266

Poacher killer.

8/22/13 9:14:21 AM#44
Post deleted.

"Chuck's a good fighter but he's a UFC fighter... this is Pride." - Quinton Rampage Jackson
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  Phry

Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 5196

8/22/13 9:18:45 AM#45
Originally posted by Grixxitt
Originally posted by DMKano
 
Agree with Eleenb4, and I believe that those who pay a subscription are:
  • "more invested" Yea for the first 3 months before unsubbing
  • "more mature" Highly subjective - IMO it makes very little difference
  • and frankly a better class of committed player. Sorry but this is utter bull
I for one am ecstatic that games are  going back to subscription based play.

 

How about...

- Bots screwing up the economy

- Hackers in a PvP game

- Chinese Goldspammers making global and regional chat unusable 

- Squeakers in local

- Griefing with no retribution

- Hackers using many free accounts for money laundering

One of the biggest problems associated with F2P, not the only one perhaps but its something that does seem to be prevalent in a lot of F2P games. Not that P2P games don't have these things, its just that closing down said accounts involved in those activities involves real monetary loss, although it usually ends up with gold spammers etc, using hacked accounts, which goes onto the next subject, does the game have or intend to have authenticator tokens/apps to help prevent account theft? Its something i do use if its available, not because i can't protect my system (i can) but it also works as a deterrent against account theft in the first place. Personally i think every P2P game should have security systems in place that utilise authenticator tokens, its such a big thing these days, i just wish CCP would do the same for Eve.

  Brabbit1987

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 653

8/22/13 9:20:18 AM#46
Originally posted by BrooksTech
P2P is the only reason I will be playing the game.  And, if I may, the F2p 'Freeloaders" greatly overestimate the power of their vote. $.0.50 a day is not now, nor has ever been, a deal breaker for me.

This whole $0.50 a day thing is really stupid.

That is like saying a $1,000,000 house is cheap because it only costs $0.19 a minute if you plan to pay it off in 10 years.

If you don't get that example, what i mean is. No matter what you say, or how you say it, it still costs the same amount. It doesn't matter you take the monthly fee and divide into a daily cost. It still doesn't change the fact that it will cost over $200 the first year, which is a lot of a game. If you plan to play it for even longer, like 3 years, you are looking at about $550 for a single game.

This is of course assuming it remains P2P for 3 years. Those numbers are also based on if you are not playing on a console.

Anything sounds cheap when you divide into a lower number.

Then I also have to mention for the 5th or 6th time, no one really is saying anything about F2P. Most of us who have an issue with P2P wanted B2P with a minor cosmetic cash shop and DLC content now and then. Much like Guild Wars.

  SpottyGekko

Elite Member

Joined: 9/26/04
Posts: 2854

8/22/13 9:31:37 AM#47

I'll decide after Open Beta.

 

The payment model is largely irrelevant, the only exception to that is if they go with a Cash Shop that irritates me. In that case I won't play it.

  Reklaw

Elite Member

Joined: 1/07/06
Posts: 6148

The adult I am takes care of most things real life. However my inner-child is a GAMER!!

8/22/13 9:32:28 AM#48
Originally posted by Samuel107

Just interested to see who is still going to play with this payment method.

*Edit* I guess I could have made this poll better with maybe or with more info. Say yes for maybe then, because I'm just seeing how many just got turned off by the idea of subscription based and know they aren't playing because of it. 

Indeed for me also a maybe. Must admit due to it's sub-fee I am allot more interested in ESO. But in this time and age I do want to get a taste for what's ahead, meaning some form of open beta, trails or what ever to try the game before buying.

My interest has also grown towards Wildstar and Final Fantasy XIV:ARR, again mainly because they are going for the sub-fee model.

 

  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 6663

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

8/22/13 9:56:56 AM#49

I have not tried the game yet but i do see some good things in the game,especially the class design.

If the game was any good,i wouldn't care about a sub fee,matter of fact, i would want it .Last thing i want in my games are a million rmt accounts  all ruining my game for free.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Napolianboo#p/u/15/rCYLLQCNc1w
Samoan Diamond

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17085

8/22/13 10:02:23 AM#50
Originally posted by Brabbit1987
Originally posted by BrooksTech
P2P is the only reason I will be playing the game.  And, if I may, the F2p 'Freeloaders" greatly overestimate the power of their vote. $.0.50 a day is not now, nor has ever been, a deal breaker for me.

This whole $0.50 a day thing is really stupid.

That is like saying a $1,000,000 house is cheap because it only costs $0.19 a minute if you plan to pay it off in 10 years.

If you don't get that example, what i mean is. No matter what you say, or how you say it, it still costs the same amount. It doesn't matter you take the monthly fee and divide into a daily cost. It still doesn't change the fact that it will cost over $200 the first year, which is a lot of a game. If you plan to play it for even longer, like 3 years, you are looking at about $550 for a single game.

This is of course assuming it remains P2P for 3 years. Those numbers are also based on if you are not playing on a console.

Anything sounds cheap when you divide into a lower number.

Then I also have to mention for the 5th or 6th time, no one really is saying anything about F2P. Most of us who have an issue with P2P wanted B2P with a minor cosmetic cash shop and DLC content now and then. Much like Guild Wars.

If you want to go that route anything can be considered "A lot of money".

My gym membership was $468.00 per year,  I spend from $480 to 720 (maybe more) per year just on "B movie night movies", I spend $382.00 per year on sesame snacks.

Life costs money, game companies need to make money and hopefully will "do right" by their customers. The only difference between p2p and f2p is "who" is ponying up that money and how much they are "ponying up".

  Dalexith78

Novice Member

Joined: 5/18/10
Posts: 29

8/22/13 10:04:15 AM#51
Oh cool, you have already played and gone through all the content so u can say it's a sub par game..........
  Brabbit1987

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 653

8/22/13 10:43:09 AM#52
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Brabbit1987
Originally posted by BrooksTech
P2P is the only reason I will be playing the game.  And, if I may, the F2p 'Freeloaders" greatly overestimate the power of their vote. $.0.50 a day is not now, nor has ever been, a deal breaker for me.

This whole $0.50 a day thing is really stupid.

That is like saying a $1,000,000 house is cheap because it only costs $0.19 a minute if you plan to pay it off in 10 years.

If you don't get that example, what i mean is. No matter what you say, or how you say it, it still costs the same amount. It doesn't matter you take the monthly fee and divide into a daily cost. It still doesn't change the fact that it will cost over $200 the first year, which is a lot of a game. If you plan to play it for even longer, like 3 years, you are looking at about $550 for a single game.

This is of course assuming it remains P2P for 3 years. Those numbers are also based on if you are not playing on a console.

Anything sounds cheap when you divide into a lower number.

Then I also have to mention for the 5th or 6th time, no one really is saying anything about F2P. Most of us who have an issue with P2P wanted B2P with a minor cosmetic cash shop and DLC content now and then. Much like Guild Wars.

If you want to go that route anything can be considered "A lot of money".

My gym membership was $468.00 per year,  I spend from $480 to 720 (maybe more) per year just on "B movie night movies", I spend $382.00 per year on sesame snacks.

Life costs money, game companies need to make money and hopefully will "do right" by their customers. The only difference between p2p and f2p is "who" is ponying up that money and how much they are "ponying up".

Right, understandable, however in order to say something is expensive or is a lot of money, the comparison has to be made to the same type of thing. Also by what a particular thing is worth to that person.

Remember, I am not the one who was making such dumb claims by saying it's only $0.50 per day. My example is just to show you how stupid it is. It is stupid in both ways.

Just as you can make anything look cheap, you can make anything look expensive.

So what is and what isn't expensive is decided by each person independently on their own. 

Just keep in mind ,you pretty much are agreeing with me, by disagreeing with what I did. That was the point I was making. Multiplying or dividing the cost to make it look expensive or cheaper is equally stupid.

Also, you mention F2P AGAIN right after I made a statement on that. ... Why are you mentioning F2P .. when we are talking about B2P?

AGAIN, no one is saying we want F2P. -.-

I feel like a broken record.

  CoNk3r

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/13/09
Posts: 45

8/22/13 10:55:42 AM#53

The single player versions were great, except for Obilvion. I was more keen on getting a copy of WildStar, but after reading what they are trying to "How to milk the cow beyond limits".. it completely vanished from my radar. With TESO you have at least the Lore to back it up, to some extent. I think many are going to try it out and have fun (while it last).

If i wanted to raid, i could go back and do that in Lotro which has prolly the best F2P Model out there. And then we have Everquest Next, which to me seems the real new game changer in this biziniz... so i think, i´m going to pass on TESO.

Judging the videos, it looked great. But paying 15 bucks a month for having an EGO Expierence is not worth it. Havent heard anything about their PVP implementations, so this might be their last remaing ace card.

Also how is this going to work on the PS4 with the PS+ requirement ?.. 15+ 4 PS4 ~20$ per month if you are single, 30 (PC) 40 on the PS4 if more than 2 are playing in the same household.

Anyways, have my eye set on :

-Everquest next landmark and EQN

-Black Desert

 

  Sleepyfish

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/25/09
Posts: 342

8/22/13 11:57:58 AM#54

Sub fee is not a big deal, I want to see some beta footage on how world pvp, crafting and the difference between pvp and pve gear, perhaps player housing if they have it. The combat looks good at first glance but I do not want it to be too simple. Two things I learned playing GW2 limited skills are not such a big deal, limited options in those limited slots however are. Also the intangibles, crafting, pvp, exploration, pve, gear and loot have to have some importance.

What are the trade skills if any, people may not like it but you will have to keep the uncle Owens happy and useful not all of us play one way. I typically like some crafting, exploration and world pvp stalking myself and I could enjoy none of those things in GW2. It cant just be Group finder pve with ten man pvp rooms. 

I hear there will not be an AH which isnt so bad, I just hope we can set up npc vendors so we can log off, I have played in games where you have to stay afk all day to sell, thats not fun. 

 

I do like that there seems to be some actual range in the combat so we can see some actual snipe tactics for once. 

  Kuanshu

Novice Member

Joined: 5/19/04
Posts: 277

8/22/13 12:23:04 PM#55

Alot of the new MMOs are going to be subscription based it seems

FFXIV

Wildstar

and now ESO

Did ya'll care to read the article on here about P2P and F2P? I recommend it as it was very insightful and educational...most interesting indeed.

I will most likely play it, cuz anyway you look at it you paying. If its time, energy, cash shop, micro transactions, etc...they get ya one way or another these days anyways so why not just see it for what it is and get over it and ourselves as we are all in this together and until we realize this much moreso then how the weather is going to be or whats goin on with twitter or your smartphone, etc...

Better off keepin a positive attitude and enjoying the moment for what it is as there are no ordinary moments folks

 

  Brabbit1987

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 653

8/22/13 1:50:00 PM#56
 

Many companies are going F2P because they find it works well. Those who say only crappy games go F2P .. tell that to Valve and TF2 because they would like to have a word with you. Actually, they where kinda shocked themselves that a F2P game could make.

However, this doesn't mean the F2P model is all that good for the consumers. Most do not enjoy the cash shop crap, and most of all pay to win.

Not all F2P games have a bad cash shop. Nor are all F2P games bad. Anyone who says that clearly has no idea what they are talking about. You can't base your claims on a handful of games you tried, because I bet there are tons you have not tried. Actually most people who complain about F2P don't even play F2P game, so their opinion is fairly biased and not really based on evidence at all. They base most of their claims on older games, or game that just where plainly not good at all. Some people even mention games they didn't even try themselves.

I personally do not mind a F2P model, however, it isn't the choice I would make if I had to make that choice. The choice I like is B2P.

B2P allows you to pay for the game just as you would any other game. You actually get more sales then you would get from a P2P option since more are willing to take the risk, thus making you more money to at least keep up with the P2P model for the first year. They have to include a cash shop that sells very minor aesthetic items. This increases and helps cover server costs. This also doesn't cause any of the so called pay gates that are mentioned. You could technically not even include the cash shop if you release DLC content as often as passed Elder Scrolls games did. Elder Scrolls has a very large backing with Skyrim having sold about 9 - 12 million copies. These numbers can easily sustain ESO as a B2P even with out a cash shop if they release their DLC content on a yearly bases.

P2P model I do not find to be all that viable despite what some will tell you, it's a hard model to actually keep going. P2P requires to to not only purchase the game initially for $60, but has you pay an extra $15 fee. Some will say it's worth it if they release enough content. I say poppy cock to that. If you really are getting your monies worth, would you not expect to have as much content as a full single player games content when you reach the $120 payment mark? You essentially have been playing for 5 months since the first month is free. You payed the price of 2 games at this point. At the 9 month mark, you payed for the price of 3 games.

Now I know some people are obviously willing to pay this price. That is fine. What you don't understand though is, a LOT of people are not willing. I don't claim to know the exact amount of people, however, it has to be near the 50% mark give or take. Even though other players could care less who plays and who doesn't. The developer certainly does give a crap.

Why is this an issue? Because if the developer finds they alienated to many of their potential customer base, they could end up switching to F2P which then would piss off their current customers. Those who say it will not happen, are fooling themselves. It most certainly WILL happen, it's just a matter of how long will it go before it does so? Will it be able to last longer then all the passed attempts in recent years? If not, they can actually see a possible loss rather then a gain if they had gone B2P to begin with.

This is just one of the many issues with the P2P model. A double edge sword for those who feel obligated to play the game. On one hand we have players who like the idea, that it will give them a reason to continue to play. However, this doesn't work the same way for everyone. Other people like to play many games. This can create a wall for them. They will feel they HAVE to play this game because they payed for that month. They may drop their subscription if they want to play a different game rather then just keep paying for it. In which case, they may not resub for a few months until a few updates have been made. This type of thing can also cause problems with making enough money.

Other issues involve a lot of their player base include college students who currently can't pay the $15 fee per month. Some of which may decide to not even purchase the game at all due to this. You also have to remember, a lot of the console crowd are not used to paying a service for for 1 specific game. At least not a large majority of them. If you look at passed statistics, you will find console players actually made up the vast majority of sales for Skyrim. Kind of shocking since i would have expected it being the other way around. I will include links to my sources below.

I see a lot of P2P who are perfectly fine with this, but really they should be a little more worried. This could effect the quality of this game overall. The very model you like, could actually prevent this game from doing well enough to remain a P2P game. I realize a lot of people have a lot of hope the model will work out, but they really are going to have to set the bar far and above all past and present MMO games. A $15 tagged onto it, means it's going to need to be better then any of the F2P or B2P alternatives. You also have to realize they will be competing with all the other P2P MMOs as well.

Let me ask you this. Would you rather a game be a great B2P game from the start and remain great till the very end? Or would you rather it start as a great P2P game and turn into a crappy F2P in the end? Now you could say, why not turn into a B2P instead? Yes they could go from P2P to B2P. However, that really depends on how well it did while it was P2P. B2P may not drag the numbers in that are needed after the P2P model failed.

Now the excuse people have used for a P2P game failing is that the game sucked. However, I do not agree with this. If the game really was bad, why are people still playing these games? Sure the numbers may not be extremely high to keep the game P2P, but that is because it takes a lot to remain as such. They games show they do really well after the transition to F2P. If these games where bad, why do they do well even after the transition?

Then the other argument is, if you don't like it, don't play it. I love how often this argument is used, because from a business stand point it makes no sense. As a player it doesn't matter to you. However, for Zenimax, it matters a lot. Can you imagine if they used that excuse for their customers? You forget, each and every customer matters to companies. However, numbers speak for themselves. If they are going to lose 25 - 50% of their customers, that may not matter to you, but that is a very very big deal to a company. That is a lot of potential profit lost. This means for them to succeed they have to really believe, they will keep those subs for a very long time to counter that loss.

Skyrim Statistics:

PS3 http://www.vgchartz.com/game/49113/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/  - 4.79 million units sold

Xbox 360 http://www.vgchartz.com/game/49112/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/ - 7.39 million units sold

PC http://www.vgchartz.com/game/49111/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/ - 3.03 million units sold

Sorry for such a long winded response. However, that is my thoughts on the entire matter.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17085

8/22/13 5:40:48 PM#57
Originally posted by Brabbit1987
 

Right, understandable, however in order to say something is expensive or is a lot of money, the comparison has to be made to the same type of thing. Also by what a particular thing is worth to that person.

Remember, I am not the one who was making such dumb claims by saying it's only $0.50 per day. My example is just to show you how stupid it is. It is stupid in both ways.

Just as you can make anything look cheap, you can make anything look expensive.

So what is and what isn't expensive is decided by each person independently on their own. 

Just keep in mind ,you pretty much are agreeing with me, by disagreeing with what I did. That was the point I was making. Multiplying or dividing the cost to make it look expensive or cheaper is equally stupid.

Also, you mention F2P AGAIN right after I made a statement on that. ... Why are you mentioning F2P .. when we are talking about B2P?

AGAIN, no one is saying we want F2P. -.-

I feel like a broken record.

Yes it's true that people can decide on how expensive and inexpensive something is. However, up until this point in time, these games have been sub based and rarely raised their prices over time. The 14.99 now is a lot less than the 14.99 when it was first introduced.

so "yes" one can compare the same thing and say video games cost less money over time for subscriptions. However, I do see your point where one can say it costs pennies per day yet the reality is it costs "x per year".

As far as as the last part, throw in b2p as well. It wasn't my direct intention to exclude it.  Regardless of  p2p, b2p or f2p,  "x" amount of dollars needs to be made.

It's just that some players don't want to pay their share of that cost. B2P might seem to be the way to go but in reality it doesn't cover the costs hence the additional cash shop. The only difference between b2p and f2p is that in b2p you pay for the game up front. There is still the cash shop to hopefully make up the difference they are losing in not charging a sub.

Even GW has a cash shop. GW2 launched with it. They knew they needed additional revenue.

And before someone cries "there is no pay to win" I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about additional revenue streams and allowing a small minority to fill those revenue streams.

 

  Fion

Novice Member

Joined: 7/25/03
Posts: 2356

forums.3305local.com

We are recruiting.

8/22/13 9:28:35 PM#58
Originally posted by Brabbit1987
Skyrim Statistics:

PS3 http://www.vgchartz.com/game/49113/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/  - 4.79 million units sold

Xbox 360 http://www.vgchartz.com/game/49112/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/ - 7.39 million units sold

PC http://www.vgchartz.com/game/49111/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/ - 3.03 million units sold

Sorry for such a long winded response. However, that is my thoughts on the entire matter.

 

Just FYI those statistics do not include digital purchases, in which it is widely believed the PC version has outsold the console versions combined thanks to Steam. For those who don't know, Skyrim has been on the top 10 seller list on Steam pretty much every week since it released near on two years ago.

  Brabbit1987

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 653

8/23/13 1:57:40 AM#59
Originally posted by Fion
Originally posted by Brabbit1987
Skyrim Statistics:

PS3 http://www.vgchartz.com/game/49113/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/  - 4.79 million units sold

Xbox 360 http://www.vgchartz.com/game/49112/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/ - 7.39 million units sold

PC http://www.vgchartz.com/game/49111/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/ - 3.03 million units sold

Sorry for such a long winded response. However, that is my thoughts on the entire matter.

 

Just FYI those statistics do not include digital purchases, in which it is widely believed the PC version has outsold the console versions combined thanks to Steam. For those who don't know, Skyrim has been on the top 10 seller list on Steam pretty much every week since it released near on two years ago.

In all honesty, while it can't be proven and it is certainly possible what you say. It's very doubtful. I really can't see the steam sales topping the console numbers. That would essentially mean they would need to have sold around 8 million copies or so on steam. Do you have any idea how unlikely that is?

Now however, considering steam never seems to like to release numbers, I really do not have a very strong argument sadly. However, neither do you really either XD.

  blazeicer

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/06/10
Posts: 60

8/23/13 6:25:13 AM#60
They messed up with the subscription model they added... This will turn many players away.
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