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News & Features Discussion  » Elder Scrolls Online: Subscription Model Announced

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246 posts found
  Drakephire

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/02/13
Posts: 363

8/21/13 9:51:52 AM#121
Originally posted by NBlitz

Does F2P generate more revenue for the company? If it does. Then who are the ones ultimately paying the price? Because everywhere I see folks saying F2P is better they then go on to say they haven't spent a penny in...x months or whatever.

MMOs are a different beast. They're constantly in maintenance. Someone has to pony up for that, no?

That's because you're experiencing confirmation bias. You assume that because one person (or a few) say they don't pay a dime, that everyone who plays doesn't pay.

Well that isn't the case. I for one do buy content in f2p games...mostly the xpacs and rp items.

  marcuslm

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/01/05
Posts: 236

8/21/13 9:55:57 AM#122

P2P simply does not support people who can't or won't devote their lives to one single game. I personally like variety. My play is sporadic, I may hit an online game really hard for a month, then play a single player game with a great story for a while, then come back to the online game. Subscriptions suck for this type of play. Who wants to be obligated to one game and need to play so much time a month or they feel like they are wasting money? There are too many games out there these days (mmorpg, single player, and so on) to lock yourself down in my opinion. No matter how good a game is, I get burned out and want something different for a while. What if I go on vacation or have a deadline at work?

Is F2P truly free? Of course not, salaries have to be paid,  but at least with F2P I can decide WHEN I am willing and/or able to shell out money and what is worth shelling out money for. So others can slap on the P2P ball and chain, I'll pass. 

I will be surprised if they can stick to this, but if they do, good for them. I hope it makes the P2P fans happy for a while.

  User Deleted
8/21/13 9:58:17 AM#123
Originally posted by Drakephire
Originally posted by strellok
Originally posted by orbitxo

so many great games out there F2p. or better cash shop bundles.

 

So many people keep SPAMMING forums EVERYWHERE how many great f2p alternatives there are.

Now I want you show them to me.

 

Not a single f2p or b2p game is worth my time and never was worth my time in the long run. They are not good games. Thats why they are f2p. And I am not talking about p2w. I am talking about good quality video game.

 

 

And you are playing what p2p MMOs right now? 

 

Of course not. 

Its time for new games.

  onlinenow25

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/26/07
Posts: 279

8/21/13 10:03:26 AM#124
Originally posted by DrDream
Originally posted by Xarko
Well this gonna be interesting. Since ESO and Wildstar plan to launch around the same time and both go p2p, most people who wanted to try both will just choose one of them. ESO might win this fight thx to IP.

Personally im still going for Wildstar, i may try ESO when it has a free trial or if i hear amazing things otherwise im not much for Real time combat in my MMO's i like Tab-target.

Wildstar has action combat.....

  ishist

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/27/06
Posts: 138

8/21/13 10:20:37 AM#125
Good, I prefer "Freemium" games like DDO and the EQ brothers, but this will do almost as well. Freemium bulks out the population while keeping the "You're Special!" sub option.

In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. - Douglas Adams

  DeVoDeVo

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/07/13
Posts: 88

8/21/13 10:21:26 AM#126
Originally posted by Burntvet

The frustrated tears

Of the F2P kiddies

Taste just like candy.

 

 

Edit for Haiku

 

So many sub games

Soon they will change their model

F2P laughs last

 

 

Just kidding around:)

  onlinenow25

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/26/07
Posts: 279

8/21/13 10:26:30 AM#127

Not calling the game doomed because it went P2P but its is a huge problem for console players and the console market.  

 

Last I heard PS4 is going to require a $5 dollar monthly fee for PS+ to play online, and we all know Xbone is going to cost the usual xbox live fee.

 

What console player wants to pay another monthly fee to play a single game?  Not to mention on fragmented servers where PC/Xbone/PS4 are all on separate servers.  

 

Also if there isn't a huge sign posted about requiring a subscription fee to play.  I can already see a huge amount of returns.  I could go as far as it becoming news worthy about Bethesda being required to let people that bought the console version unaware of it requiring a subscription to return the game because the information for requiring a sub was not made clear. (Yes I know Zenimax is producing the game but Bethesda is the publisher)

 

This would be due to all other ES games being single player and not requiring a sub.  So the over all 'safe' assumption is it won't require a sub due to history.

 

The PC version should do alright, and will change to F2P/B2P when they lose subscribers.  Its becoming a trend, I almost wonder if market research has been done and found out that the B2P loyalists that stay with a game that converts to F2P/B2P end up becoming the biggest whales.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17231

8/21/13 10:30:38 AM#128
Originally posted by Gorwe
The idea of paying for something that is ABSOLUTELY unnecessary(the sub) just abhors me. As was visible by games such as GW1, GW 2, LoL, DoTA 2, SMITE, TSW(you choose the game),... it is CLEARLY visible that there is NO need for subscriptions.

You have no idea as to what is necessary or not.

GW1 was b2p and slowly added a cash shop. GW 2 launched with a cash shop.

I haven't played the others but do they have cash shops? can you buy things and spend money other than the purchase of the game.?

 

As I said in another thread, these games need "x" amount of dollars to stay afloat. Period. Developers moved to f2p because, though it does lower the barrier to entry and keep a healthy (hopefully) churn going, it uncaps the amounts that players can spend and a certain demographic will spend quite a lot.

But with that model, they don't know how much money they will rake in from month to month and they need to constantly monetize new aspcects of their game to keep money flowing.

The amount of money that it takes to run these things (and I'm not talking about internet use) is still the same. All developres/producers have done is try to figure out a way to get more of it. If you aren't paying then I can assure you someone else is paying for you.

Regardless if this bothers you or not the bill is being paid. And once they have sold as much as they can they will come up with new ways to make ends meet.

Game costs for development and keeping the company afloat haven't magically gone away.

  nuttob

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/25/11
Posts: 231

8/21/13 10:40:45 AM#129
It's easy to see that by the time EQ Next comes out we will have a total of 3 more FTP options...
  DrDream

Novice Member

Joined: 11/17/10
Posts: 166

"Hey...... look a dragon!!"

8/21/13 10:45:35 AM#130
Originally posted by Xarko
Originally posted by vmoped
Originally posted by DrDream
Originally posted by Xarko
Well this gonna be interesting. Since ESO and Wildstar plan to launch around the same time and both go p2p, most people who wanted to try both will just choose one of them. ESO might win this fight thx to IP.

Personally im still going for Wildstar, i may try ESO when it has a free trial or if i hear amazing things otherwise im not much for Real time combat in my MMO's i like Tab-target.

From what I understand I believe Wildstar is action combat as well.  Both use telegraphs, dodge mechanics, limited action bars, and cone/aoe for hit determination.  I haven't played either, so maybe I have the wrong impression here.

Cheers!

 

You are right, Wildstar is not tab-target. Actually even ESO is closer to tab-target than WS, because it has abilities locked on red marked targets.

 

damn i couold have sworn it was tab-target with a splash of aiming kinda like some moba characters from oh say Heroes of newerth mostly devo comes to mind. either way i guess its good i got FFXIV:ARR im hoping it sucks me in as much as ive heard about it.

timeleaper Xfire Miniprofile
  Grixxitt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/18/12
Posts: 556

8/21/13 10:45:39 AM#131
Originally posted by onlinenow25

What console player wants to pay another monthly fee to play a single game?  Not to mention on fragmented servers where PC/Xbone/PS4 are all on separate servers.  

 

It's not like this sort of thing doesn't have precedent

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call_of_Duty:_Elite

http://guardianlv.com/2013/08/xbox-one-unboxing-key-features-locked-behind-subscription-fees-video/

 

 

Hell with Xbox Live they try to lock you into a 24 month (!!!!) contract

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/Legal/xbox-live-contract-terms

Schedule of Early Termination Fees to be paid to Microsoft:

Year One of Subscription (Months After Purchase)

Months Post Purchase  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
ETF for Cancellation $250 $250 $250 $240 $228 $216 $204 $192 $180 $168 $156 $144

 

Year Two of Subscription (Months After Purchase)

Months Post Purchase  13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
ETF for Cancellation $132 $120 $108 $96 $84 $72 $60 $48 $36 $24 $12 $0
 
 

The above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)

-The MMO Forum Community

  DrDream

Novice Member

Joined: 11/17/10
Posts: 166

"Hey...... look a dragon!!"

8/21/13 10:48:47 AM#132
Originally posted by DeVoDeVo
Originally posted by Burntvet

The frustrated tears

Of the F2P kiddies

Taste just like candy.

 

 

Edit for Haiku

 

So many sub games

Soon they will change their model

F2P laughs last

 

 

Just kidding around:)

 

I truly hope F2P doesnt laugh last so many games get ruined by F2P b/c the community of a game is flooded with rude/disgusting/arrogant players who come in a spew out WOW CLONE WOW CLONE! or other stupid stuff like Barrens chat use to be.

timeleaper Xfire Miniprofile
  Gorwe

Elite Member

Joined: 9/16/11
Posts: 1807

8/21/13 10:50:54 AM#133
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Gorwe
The idea of paying for something that is ABSOLUTELY unnecessary(the sub) just abhors me. As was visible by games such as GW1, GW 2, LoL, DoTA 2, SMITE, TSW(you choose the game),... it is CLEARLY visible that there is NO need for subscriptions.

You have no idea as to what is necessary or not.

GW1 was b2p and slowly added a cash shop. GW 2 launched with a cash shop.

I haven't played the others but do they have cash shops? can you buy things and spend money other than the purchase of the game.?

 

As I said in another thread, these games need "x" amount of dollars to stay afloat. Period. Developers moved to f2p because, though it does lower the barrier to entry and keep a healthy (hopefully) churn going, it uncaps the amounts that players can spend and a certain demographic will spend quite a lot.

But with that model, they don't know how much money they will rake in from month to month and they need to constantly monetize new aspcects of their game to keep money flowing.

The amount of money that it takes to run these things (and I'm not talking about internet use) is still the same. All developres/producers have done is try to figure out a way to get more of it. If you aren't paying then I can assure you someone else is paying for you.

Regardless if this bothers you or not the bill is being paid. And once they have sold as much as they can they will come up with new ways to make ends meet.

Game costs for development and keeping the company afloat haven't magically gone away.

Yes, they have costume or such cash shops. Similar to GW 1. But it DOES NOT bother me! It's not like the dreaded pay2win(which is a nonsense outside of TRUE f2ps-as long as it is obtainable within the game, it is not pay2win).

And yes. It is 110% unnecessary. I can't see how have we returned from the Modern ages(B2P, Freemium) to the Middle ages(P2P). Is just...wrong. Heh it reminds me of Egypt and how they are regressing back what with salafists and all.

(I blame the CIA! They are ALWAYS guilty xD )

  onlinenow25

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/26/07
Posts: 279

8/21/13 10:54:02 AM#134
Originally posted by Grixxitt
Originally posted by onlinenow25

What console player wants to pay another monthly fee to play a single game?  Not to mention on fragmented servers where PC/Xbone/PS4 are all on separate servers.  

 

It's not like this sort of thing doesn't have precedent

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call_of_Duty:_Elite

http://guardianlv.com/2013/08/xbox-one-unboxing-key-features-locked-behind-subscription-fees-video/

 

 

Hell with Xbox Live they try to lock you into a 24 month (!!!!) contract

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/Legal/xbox-live-contract-terms

Schedule of Early Termination Fees to be paid to Microsoft:

Year One of Subscription (Months After Purchase)

Months Post Purchase  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
ETF for Cancellation $250 $250 $250 $240 $228 $216 $204 $192 $180 $168 $156 $144

 

Year Two of Subscription (Months After Purchase)

Months Post Purchase  13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
ETF for Cancellation $132 $120 $108 $96 $84 $72 $60 $48 $36 $24 $12 $0
 
 

And that is just another reason I will not be getting the new Xbox.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17231

8/21/13 10:58:55 AM#135
Originally posted by Gorwe
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Gorwe
The idea of paying for something that is ABSOLUTELY unnecessary(the sub) just abhors me. As was visible by games such as GW1, GW 2, LoL, DoTA 2, SMITE, TSW(you choose the game),... it is CLEARLY visible that there is NO need for subscriptions.

You have no idea as to what is necessary or not.

GW1 was b2p and slowly added a cash shop. GW 2 launched with a cash shop.

I haven't played the others but do they have cash shops? can you buy things and spend money other than the purchase of the game.?

 

As I said in another thread, these games need "x" amount of dollars to stay afloat. Period. Developers moved to f2p because, though it does lower the barrier to entry and keep a healthy (hopefully) churn going, it uncaps the amounts that players can spend and a certain demographic will spend quite a lot.

But with that model, they don't know how much money they will rake in from month to month and they need to constantly monetize new aspcects of their game to keep money flowing.

The amount of money that it takes to run these things (and I'm not talking about internet use) is still the same. All developres/producers have done is try to figure out a way to get more of it. If you aren't paying then I can assure you someone else is paying for you.

Regardless if this bothers you or not the bill is being paid. And once they have sold as much as they can they will come up with new ways to make ends meet.

Game costs for development and keeping the company afloat haven't magically gone away.

Yes, they have costume or such cash shops. Similar to GW 1. But it DOES NOT bother me! It's not like the dreaded pay2win(which is a nonsense outside of TRUE f2ps-as long as it is obtainable within the game, it is not pay2win).

And yes. It is 110% unnecessary. I can't see how have we returned from the Modern ages(B2P, Freemium) to the Middle ages(P2P). Is just...wrong. Heh it reminds me of Egypt and how they are regressing back what with salafists and all.

(I blame the CIA! They are ALWAYS guilty xD )

I'm not talking about pay to win. I'm talking about "games need x amount of dollars to stay afloat.

You are essentially making a statement saying that games only need to charge for initial cost of the game and if they have a cosmetic shop then that's fine "no biggie".

I'm saying that games need x amount of dollars and game companies need to make that money. If they charge a monthly fee they make x amount of dollars. If they get rid of that monthly fee they still need those dollars so they hope that they can make enough oncosmetics.

And they constantly have to offer new cosmetics, I see a banker's gollum there and I wonder what else? Doesn't matter, they still need the money. "X" amount of dollars always needs to be made. And if they don't get it one way they get it another. So "no" you don't know what is needed to keep these games afloat. All you see is that "now" they get their money from others willing to pay it and it doesn't affect you as it once did.

But yet you have no idea the costs these business still have to incur.

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12283

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Project Gorgon, and Combat Arms

8/21/13 11:00:46 AM#136
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by nanoentity

KEY WORD!

"changes to which we just were not ready"

Which means the game will go Free 2 Play like the others at the later date...

 

Skyrim is only successful becouse of the 9,000,000,000,000 MODS there are for the game.

Skyrim Online (AKA 

Elder Scrolls Online)

will have 0 MODS...

 
 

I think there's merit in your first statement and your second statement shows that you are just saying things.

Not only do the console sales outmatch the pc sales by a significant portion but if you look at the mod downloads that are, available, very very rarely,do these downloads get into thousands. The most popular downloads, on skyrimnexus, not including their mod manager, "might" break into 1,000 plus and I did see a mod that had 3,000 plus.

that's hardly a dent into the 10 million + sales that the game has sold.

Skyrim Nexus isn't where most people are getting their mods - Steam is. Take a look at the Steam Workshop for Skyrim. It paints a very different picture.;)

 

 

 

 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  Wighty

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/10/08
Posts: 586

8/21/13 11:05:47 AM#137

This is AWESOME!!!!

 

Ok so FF 14 Check!

Wildstar Check!

TESO Check (was not even considering this until now)

 

Looks like 2013/2014 is going to be dark days for the leechers who feel it's their right and entitlement to not have to pay nor support the very entertainment they are so passionate about.

What are your other Hobbies?

Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17231

8/21/13 11:06:49 AM#138
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by nanoentity

KEY WORD!

"changes to which we just were not ready"

Which means the game will go Free 2 Play like the others at the later date...

 

Skyrim is only successful becouse of the 9,000,000,000,000 MODS there are for the game.

Skyrim Online (AKA 

Elder Scrolls Online)

will have 0 MODS...

 
 

I think there's merit in your first statement and your second statement shows that you are just saying things.

Not only do the console sales outmatch the pc sales by a significant portion but if you look at the mod downloads that are, available, very very rarely,do these downloads get into thousands. The most popular downloads, on skyrimnexus, not including their mod manager, "might" break into 1,000 plus and I did see a mod that had 3,000 plus.

that's hardly a dent into the 10 million + sales that the game has sold.

Skyrim Nexus isn't where most people are getting their mods - Steam is. Take a look at the Steam Workshop for Skyrim. It paints a very different picture.;)

 

 

 

 

And can you point me to individual mods that go into the millions?

  rojoArcueid

Elite Member

Joined: 8/13/09
Posts: 5588

"It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver". - Niccolo Machiavelli

8/21/13 11:06:54 AM#139
Let me explore the entire world from level 1, facing all the challenges and progression from every map no matter what race i am, and ill pay the sub. I dont pay for limited content.

My endgame begins with character creation and ends with a new mmorpg

  User Deleted
8/21/13 11:10:09 AM#140
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Gorwe
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Gorwe
The idea of paying for something that is ABSOLUTELY unnecessary(the sub) just abhors me. As was visible by games such as GW1, GW 2, LoL, DoTA 2, SMITE, TSW(you choose the game),... it is CLEARLY visible that there is NO need for subscriptions.

You have no idea as to what is necessary or not.

GW1 was b2p and slowly added a cash shop. GW 2 launched with a cash shop.

I haven't played the others but do they have cash shops? can you buy things and spend money other than the purchase of the game.?

 

As I said in another thread, these games need "x" amount of dollars to stay afloat. Period. Developers moved to f2p because, though it does lower the barrier to entry and keep a healthy (hopefully) churn going, it uncaps the amounts that players can spend and a certain demographic will spend quite a lot.

But with that model, they don't know how much money they will rake in from month to month and they need to constantly monetize new aspcects of their game to keep money flowing.

The amount of money that it takes to run these things (and I'm not talking about internet use) is still the same. All developres/producers have done is try to figure out a way to get more of it. If you aren't paying then I can assure you someone else is paying for you.

Regardless if this bothers you or not the bill is being paid. And once they have sold as much as they can they will come up with new ways to make ends meet.

Game costs for development and keeping the company afloat haven't magically gone away.

Yes, they have costume or such cash shops. Similar to GW 1. But it DOES NOT bother me! It's not like the dreaded pay2win(which is a nonsense outside of TRUE f2ps-as long as it is obtainable within the game, it is not pay2win).

And yes. It is 110% unnecessary. I can't see how have we returned from the Modern ages(B2P, Freemium) to the Middle ages(P2P). Is just...wrong. Heh it reminds me of Egypt and how they are regressing back what with salafists and all.

(I blame the CIA! They are ALWAYS guilty xD )

I'm not talking about pay to win. I'm talking about "games need x amount of dollars to stay afloat.

You are essentially making a statement saying that games only need to charge for initial cost of the game and if they have a cosmetic shop then that's fine "no biggie".

I'm saying that games need x amount of dollars and game companies need to make that money. If they charge a monthly fee they make x amount of dollars. If they get rid of that monthly fee they still need those dollars so they hope that they can make enough oncosmetics.

And they constantly have to offer new cosmetics, I see a banker's gollum there and I wonder what else? Doesn't matter, they still need the money. "X" amount of dollars always needs to be made. And if they don't get it one way they get it another. So "no" you don't know what is needed to keep these games afloat. All you see is that "now" they get their money from others willing to pay it and it doesn't affect you as it once did.

But yet you have no idea the costs these business still have to incur.

Exactly what I was getting at earlier.

Let's not forget that games are becoming more expensive to develop. On WoW it used to take them a week to create a new monster. Nowadays it can take anywhere from 4 to 6 weeks to complete. Add in several more weeks just to complete a boss creature.

Larger feature sets. Graphics. Having to hit the ground running vs other titles already launched and beefed up with content.

These developers are not running a charitable organization.

The investors are not fooling around.

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