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News & Features Discussion  » Elder Scrolls Online: Subscription Model Announced

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246 posts found
  SpottyGekko

Elite Member

Joined: 9/26/04
Posts: 2775

8/21/13 2:09:11 PM#201

I might now actually play this game. If they're going to attempt a sub model, then they might actually put in enough effort to make the game interesting and attractive to me.

If the open beta is fun, I'll be pre-ordered and subbed faster than you can say "Skyrim" !

 

The F2P freeloaders can wait until the subscription elite have had their fun. Then they'll get their turn. Let them deal with the F2P nickle-and-diming after the rest of us have moved on... 

  Stizzled

Gumshoe

Joined: 9/13/07
Posts: 1002

Kill Your Heroes

8/21/13 2:22:39 PM#202
Originally posted by LungingWolf


When I read all these posts which zealously advocate the F2P model, I genuinely cannot help but get freeloader vibes from a lot of it. Seriously, valid dissatisfaction with the services which currently existing subscription oriented MMOs provide has been made into a trojan horse which freeloaders use to push for free stuff.

Ironically, the people who zealously swear by the F2P model are the same people who buy all kinds of stuff from F2P games' cash shops. But never mind that ...

Subscriptions, microtransactions ... it's the same expense, just repackaged. And pretending otherwise is just wishful thinking. But never mind that ...

Good grief ...  there's just no reasoning with greedy people ...

 

Of course those of us who are all for the F2P model buy things in cash shops. People who prefer F2P don't hate spending money, we just like the option to choose what we pay for. I would think that any reasonable person would prefer choosing when they spend money as apposed to being forced to spend money every month.

 

But, I guess I'm wrong on that. There seems to be quite a few people, who I'm sure are quite reasonable, that much prefer being forced to pay if they want to continue to play. Somehow they have convinced themselves that requiring a monthly fee produces a higher quality product, even though the games of the past have proven that to be completely false.

  LungingWolf

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/18/13
Posts: 50

Stuck in the desert as I look for the promised land of MMOs, or at least a nice oasis to sit at.

8/21/13 2:58:05 PM#203
Originally posted by Stizzled
Originally posted by LungingWolf


When I read all these posts which zealously advocate the F2P model, I genuinely cannot help but get freeloader vibes from a lot of it. Seriously, valid dissatisfaction with the services which currently existing subscription oriented MMOs provide has been made into a trojan horse which freeloaders use to push for free stuff.

Ironically, the people who zealously swear by the F2P model are the same people who buy all kinds of stuff from F2P games' cash shops. But never mind that ...

Subscriptions, microtransactions ... it's the same expense, just repackaged. And pretending otherwise is just wishful thinking. But never mind that ...

Good grief ...  there's just no reasoning with greedy people ...

 

Of course those of us who are all for the F2P model buy things in cash shops. People who prefer F2P don't hate spending money, we just like the option to choose what we pay for. I would think that any reasonable person would prefer choosing when they spend money as apposed to being forced to spend money every month.

 

But, I guess I'm wrong on that. There seems to be quite a few people, who I'm sure are quite reasonable, that much prefer being forced to pay if they want to continue to play. Somehow they have convinced themselves that requiring a monthly fee produces a higher quality product, even though the games of the past have proven that to be completely false.

 


First, if an MMO is oriented solely around a subscription model after one buys the game, then you automatically get access to all of the game's content. You get what you want anyways and more.

But, conversely, under a microtransactional model, the problem is that if you don't spend a certain amount of money at a certain rate at an MMO's cash shop, then others must spend more money at a higher rate at the said cash shop to make up for a lack of income from you. And, if everyone spends less money at the said cash shop, then the developers have less funds to work with and the game suffers overall.

Either way, the subscription model wins in terms of your first point.

Second, if you reorient an MMO's income around a cash shop and other microtransactions, then the developers behind the said MMO will prioritize making new content for the cash shop and/or making up other micotransactional schemes above making new content for the game in general. So, as soon as a game starts experiencing any financial needs or even instability, the rest of the game suffers first as they circle the wagons around their microtransactions and push a higher focus on it.

Conversely, solely under the subscription model, the developers behind an MMO always focus on the game itself and never waste resources with things like cash shops.

Again, the subscription model wins in terms of your second point.

 
 

Currently playing: Rift.
Waiting for: The Elder Scrolls Online (when it is F2P), Everquest: Next.

  Zeroxin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/21/06
Posts: 2508

My words are not here to sway you,they are here to make you understand.

8/21/13 3:10:32 PM#204
Originally posted by mikelafalce

 

Posted by someone else, but take a look at how great B2P can be!

Some would disagree.

This is not a game.

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15384

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

8/21/13 3:23:33 PM#205
Originally posted by Precusor
Originally posted by bloodaxes

Hahaha, oh god this is hilarious!

I saw posts saying wildstar will fail for being P2P when there's ESO and EQN being f2p.

Now that ESO is P2P too their only hope for free is EQN.

Unless..... 

I know, right? and i don't think iv seen this much desperation from the f2p gamers.

 

 

Not actually sure what desperation has to do with this topic. I'm concerned about the sustainability of this model with games like these, there's actual evidence that supports such concerns, none of these games (WS, ESO, FFXIV) have shown any key element that renders them above past failures to deliver with such a model.

Subscriptions are great if what you're receiving is worth it in the long run. It's an investment of more than just time. AN investment many other games do not require. WIth that extra investment one would expect a steady flow of content, and features that support and promote long-term play. None have talked much about any such plans.

 

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Stizzled

Gumshoe

Joined: 9/13/07
Posts: 1002

Kill Your Heroes

8/21/13 3:34:14 PM#206
Originally posted by LungingWolf


First, if an MMO is oriented solely around a subscription model after one buys the game, then you automatically get access to all of the game's content. You get what you want anyways and more.

I'll agree with that, but it also makes you feel as if you need to keep playing to justify the money you spent. With a F2P, I can try it first, see everything on offer and then if I so choose, start paying money. With a sub I have to pay upfront, and if I don't like it, then I'm SOL.

But, conversely, under a microtransactional model, the problem is that if you don't spend a certain amount of money at a certain rate at an MMO's cash shop, then others must spend more money at a higher rate at the said cash shop to make up for a lack of income from you. And, if everyone spends less money at the said cash shop, then the developers have less funds to work with and the game suffers overall.

It's a sound theory but, show me a case where that has happened. Show me a F2P game that couldn't sustain itself because of all the supposed freeloaders. I can show you plenty of cases where subscription games couldn't sustain themselves.

Either way, the subscription model wins in terms of your first point.


Second, if you reorient an MMO's income around a cash shop and other microtransactions, then the developers behind the said MMO will prioritize making new content for the cash shop and/or making up other micotransactional schemes above making new content for the game in general. So, as soon as a game starts experiencing any financial needs or even instability, the rest of the game suffers first as they circle the wagons around their microtransactions and push a higher focus on it.

What difference is there if they offer up new content in the shop, or in an expansion? Subscription games don't give you everything for your sub, they still expect you to spend more money. And don't even kid yourself into thinking that P2P games are focused on being fun over being profitable, the only difference here is that it's more evident in a P2P game. A F2P game first says "Here, come try our game!", while the P2P says "Here, give us money and then you can try our game!".

As for your last point, that's any game. if a game is experiencing financial difficulty then they have to do something. As evidenced by the past, even subscription games start to focus on microtransactions in hard times. So, I'm not sure what your point was here.

Conversely, solely under the subscription model, the developers behind an MMO always focus on the game itself and never waste resources with things like cash shops.

Completely false, but I've already touched on this, so I'm not going to repeat myself.

Again, the subscription model wins in terms of your second point.

 
 

You have your opinions, and I have mine, simple as that. But, don't sit there on your high horse and try to act like people who prefer F2P are all a bunch of greedy, unreasonable people. It's easy to think the same thing about P2P proponents.

  rygard49

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/11
Posts: 985

8/21/13 3:46:23 PM#207
Originally posted by Stizzled
 

Of course those of us who are all for the F2P model buy things in cash shops. People who prefer F2P don't hate spending money, we just like the option to choose what we pay for. I would think that any reasonable person would prefer choosing when they spend money as apposed to being forced to spend money every month.

Subscription people choose when to spend their money as well. They choose every month whether or not to resubscribe, and earn access to everything that would have been in your cash shop. The only advantage I see to a cash shop model is over the long term, purchasing an item once to permanently unlock. For me, the disadvantages far outweigh that.

 

But, I guess I'm wrong on that. There seems to be quite a few people, who I'm sure are quite reasonable, that much prefer being forced to pay if they want to continue to play. Somehow they have convinced themselves that requiring a monthly fee produces a higher quality product, even though the games of the past have proven that to be completely false.

A price structure doesn't ever ensure a higher quality game, whether it be free to play, buy to play, or sub model. However, with any business that relies on a cash shop as it's dominant revenue source, their goal is to drive consumers to that cash shop. In the gaming world, this typically means making one or more aspects of the gaming experience just irritating enough to make you want to spend money to fix it in some way, i.e. slow gear progression unless you can unlock chests with keys, limiting bag space, limiting character slots, etc. Any price model that encourages developers to make the game less fun for the player in order to be successful, is not a price model I can get behind (note: I'm not lumping all cash shops together here, some do it right).

The sub model only encourages developers to make the game desirable to play, to add features and content.

I've seen both models applied to games that were successful, and games that were failures, but overall the sub model just sits better with me.

Edit: Rather, I should say that the cash shop model rarely sits well with me, and the sub model is the only other alternative.

  SirFubar

Novice Member

Joined: 7/21/11
Posts: 403

8/21/13 3:47:36 PM#208
Originally posted by bdew

So FFXIV, Wildstar and now TESO are all sub based, I can't be happier.

So tired of all thos bullshit nickle-and-dime P2W cash shop crap.

Only idiots fail to understand that nearly every F2P isn't P2W and that you don't have to spend a dime to do all the content. But yeah, paying 15$ a month to play the same type of game with nearly the same restrictions is a lot more brilliant... especially in a time where P2P doesn't work anymore and the game will see the same faith as others, started P2P and went F2P in the next 6 months.

  Theocritus

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/15/08
Posts: 3613

8/21/13 3:59:38 PM#209
AH was hoping this would be 30 bucks a month....i mean the more we pay monthly the better the game right?
  Yamota

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6503

"I fight so you don't have to."

8/21/13 4:14:00 PM#210
Well will it be a pure P2P game or will they double dip and go for a cash shop as well?

  Yamota

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6503

"I fight so you don't have to."

8/21/13 4:27:32 PM#211
Originally posted by SirFubar
Originally posted by bdew

So FFXIV, Wildstar and now TESO are all sub based, I can't be happier.

So tired of all thos bullshit nickle-and-dime P2W cash shop crap.

Only idiots fail to understand that nearly every F2P isn't P2W and that you don't have to spend a dime to do all the content. But yeah, paying 15$ a month to play the same type of game with nearly the same restrictions is a lot more brilliant... especially in a time where P2P doesn't work anymore and the game will see the same faith as others, started P2P and went F2P in the next 6 months.

No, only idiots dont understand that every F2P game is P2W, to some extent. Even if you can get an exp bonus it gives you a small edge and that is P2W.

And you are right, failed games which cant cut it as P2P go F2P/P2W. So if ESO is a failure then you F2P players can have fun with it.

  Hellidol

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/14/12
Posts: 354

8/21/13 4:31:38 PM#212
Originally posted by SirFubar
Originally posted by bdew

So FFXIV, Wildstar and now TESO are all sub based, I can't be happier.

So tired of all thos bullshit nickle-and-dime P2W cash shop crap.

Only idiots fail to understand that nearly every F2P isn't P2W and that you don't have to spend a dime to do all the content. But yeah, paying 15$ a month to play the same type of game with nearly the same restrictions is a lot more brilliant... especially in a time where P2P doesn't work anymore and the game will see the same faith as others, started P2P and went F2P in the next 6 months.

glad to see there are a lot of people crying over this, happy I wont see them in the game I want to play, no cry babies in ESO leave it all here woot!

 

P2W models are really bad for those of us with money and no time to burn, the temptation is there and it will work when you see stuff like buying a potion that is 300% more effective then any of those that you can make.

People will QQ about this and I can only pray to the ESO gods that all every single one of those people QQing about the best paying model for mmos (sub base) is crap will never ever play this game, most of them are people I would never want in the game i play

  skaaz1

Novice Member

Joined: 4/30/13
Posts: 15

8/21/13 4:33:49 PM#213
Glad to hear this.
  Searias

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/23/08
Posts: 663

8/21/13 4:35:31 PM#214

I guess the developers realized the faults of the F2P and B2P models and decided that the future is the P2P model. It's a great day for us gamers :). 

I am really happy about this, finally don't have to worry about stupid cash shops :).

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  User Deleted
8/21/13 4:40:46 PM#215

If any company is upfront and honest. And if they sell a good product, I'll bite.

So more than likely I will buy this. But I will wait for 3 months after release, to make sure all BS is gone.

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5575

8/21/13 4:45:45 PM#216
Originally posted by Searias

I guess the developers realized the faults of the F2P and B2P models and decided that the future is the P2P model. It's a great day for us gamers :). 

I am really happy about this, finally don't have to worry about stupid cash shops :).

They didn't realize the long line of faults with P2P though did they.  They're mirroring the steps of every game before them.  It's like watching "Dev Studio Lemmings" on Wild Kingdom.  Every dev studio lemming thinks they won't hit the bottom when they jump over the cliff like the studio before them, but they do.  Every time.  It's boggling.

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5575

8/21/13 4:49:33 PM#217
Originally posted by Yamota
Well will it be a pure P2P game or will they double dip and go for a cash shop as well?

You left a few other double dips with the p2p like box/dlc/xpac fees, RMT gold sales, bonus dlc packs for pre-orders and "digital collector's editions", not to mention the inevitable cash shop.  Everyone is conveniently glossing over how Carbine said they would add a cash shop down the road if needed.

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  Hellidol

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/14/12
Posts: 354

8/21/13 4:54:58 PM#218
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by Searias

I guess the developers realized the faults of the F2P and B2P models and decided that the future is the P2P model. It's a great day for us gamers :). 

I am really happy about this, finally don't have to worry about stupid cash shops :).

They didn't realize the long line of faults with P2P though did they.  They're mirroring the steps of every game before them.  It's like watching "Dev Studio Lemmings" on Wild Kingdom.  Every dev studio lemming thinks they won't hit the bottom when they jump over the cliff like the studio before them, but they do.  Every time.  It's boggling.

It  really comes down to how they want to make their money, if they want to produce crappy product but very fast and satisfying to those that are simply please then P2W is their model. If they want the player to hang a round for years to come then sub is the best model they can use. Sub doesnt allow for a lot of flex ability but it does offer sustainment, and  it can offer the ability for devs to make quality product giving you a reason to feel invested in the game.

 

If someone is looking for the next quick cool thing to play and quit and come back to now and again this game might just not be for you which is something I would think the whole ESO team wasnt aiming for to begin.

 

I will be supporting this game for sure, I like the team making and have a ton of respect for the company producing it.

  Searias

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/23/08
Posts: 663

8/21/13 4:56:45 PM#219
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by Searias

I guess the developers realized the faults of the F2P and B2P models and decided that the future is the P2P model. It's a great day for us gamers :). 

I am really happy about this, finally don't have to worry about stupid cash shops :).

They didn't realize the long line of faults with P2P though did they.  They're mirroring the steps of every game before them.  It's like watching "Dev Studio Lemmings" on Wild Kingdom.  Every dev studio lemming thinks they won't hit the bottom when they jump over the cliff like the studio before them, but they do.  Every time.  It's boggling.

You do realize that they will make more money that way than doing a B2P or F2P game right? Look at what happened to defiance at least if a P2P game doesn't make it as a P2P game it could always go with the F2P or B2P route and advertise it as being a triple A title going F2P/B2P and pull in a lot of people that way. Where are a F2P/B2P game which is not doing so well has nowhere else to go. 

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  Stizzled

Gumshoe

Joined: 9/13/07
Posts: 1002

Kill Your Heroes

8/21/13 5:32:26 PM#220
Originally posted by nttajira
Originally posted by NL-Rikkert
And they just lost a large chunck of potential customers.. why would you pay monthly for a game when you have hundreds of alternatives. Was curious if they could bring the SP experience combined with friends and the best of MMOs, but I have lost all my interest now. Not everyone has money to spent these days. Sub will just not work for me atm.

can you name me just ''one good'' allternatives ?? i was looking for a mmorpg since 2 year .... none of these ',hundreds'' of crap cash shop worked for me , in the end it was more expensive that a p2p game.... im happy about subs and support them , will pay them , since im stoping mmorpg .

 

I made the switch to F2P games only sometime around 2010 or so. Since then I've spent a grand total of $70 across all the F2P games I've played. I've yet to feel like I was ever at a disadvantage and needed to spend more.

 

I hate it when I see someone claim that F2P games are more expensive than P2P. Learn to control your spending and you won't need a subscription to do it for you.

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