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News & Features Discussion  » Elder Scrolls Online: Subscription Model Announced

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245 posts found
  DijonCyanide

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/21/03
Posts: 265

8/21/13 1:21:57 PM#181
Subscription based games are fine but nowadays I think the majority of the player base has at least at one time been burn by them.  An enticement of the freemiums with the option to, after earning justly credit, subscribing or paying by some method.  The days of subscribe to my game based on the brand, the hype, my word alone about it's awesomeness is practically over.  Games should be trying to build trust with a player base not just state how to blindly trust us because of this or that down the road.  Economically it is difficult times anyway for too many, & keeping with that older subscription model might be out of touch.  Yes a subscription game filters a certain player base away from it but if the game is that good, or going to be that good, then it shouldn't be afraid to reveal itself.  There are good quality freemium MMOs out there with more being developed along with good quality subscription MMOs with more being created.  The other side, which there also has always been, are there are for both sides poorly MMOs as well.  They are all bidding for my $ by one method or another.  The choice is ours ... subscribe while trusting you will get good fun, or tryout then decide if worth it.  I hope ESO succeeds & it has far more potential than many recently given it's brand standard of quality.  I was surprised with the recent Anthology that Battlespire wasn't included too. 
  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 6100

8/21/13 1:22:05 PM#182
Originally posted by Nadia
Originally posted by Torvaldr

We'll see if Matt Firor was just talking shit when it comes to a box, dlc, and xpac fees.  He said he doesn't want to gate the experience, but those are hard gates right there.  This is nothing more than a money grab on his part.

agree

a good example is EVE, a sub game that doesnt charge for expansion content

Lineage also uses this sort of sub model.  If you sub to Lineage that is all you pay. I think that is why Lin is still one of the most popular sub based games even 15 years after launch.

Curse you AquaScum!

  User Deleted
8/21/13 1:23:20 PM#183
Originally posted by someforumguy
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by someforumguy
Originally posted by NBlitz
Originally posted by someforumguy
<>

I guess Arenenet is running a charitable organization then with their B2P payment model.

I don't know about ANet.

I would wait for more of NCSOFT's Quarterly Earnings Reports before claiming anything else regarding ANet's B2P payment model. I take it you mean GW2 by this?

It did work well for GW1 but GW1 was an entirely different game altogether with expansions and what not.

Did you read the rest of that quoted thread? I was being sarcastic. Next time I will definately use /sarcasm ... /sarcasm off or something :/

now now, sarcasm doesn't always come off well on forum threads. It's so easy to miss that unless it's over the top.

Lol now now, there there tsk tsk.

If he read my comments in that same thread, he would've understood that I was being sarcastic.

I often can tell when someone's being sarcastic online. To me you didn't seem it. And the way I chose to respond to your...post, was me being as polite as possible and giving a response I could live with. I'm not sure you're being as polite at the moment.

He also wouldn't have to ask if we were talking about GW2. Which made it obvious that he took my last comment out of context.

You didn't state that it was GW2. Just "Arenanet" and B2P. Perhaps you meant GW1 too. Or maybe only GW2. Or maybe both. I don't know so I asked.

  Razeekster

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 7/09/11
Posts: 2026

May the game be ever in your favor.

8/21/13 1:24:51 PM#184
Originally posted by Kickaxe
Originally posted by Razeekster
I am so happy to hear this. I am getting so sick and tired of nickel and dime cash shops. Guess what this means? NO HAVING TO PAY FOR EXTRA BAG SPACE OR FOR EXTRA HOTBARS (looking at you SWTOR)!
 

You are excited to pay a subscription cause it means you can avoid the free-to-play pitfalls of a game that also has a subscription option to avoid said pitfalls?

Yeah, because it's cheaper in the end. $15 a month for bag space, hotbars, all the mounts that cash shops sell. Gear and costumes will be in the game too... There are a lot of reasons why subscription is better than F2P. A set price per month for everything is a huge bonus. Also in subscription games there is no "P2W."
 
 

Smile

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17599

8/21/13 1:25:54 PM#185
Originally posted by Torvaldr
 

I'm not talking group versus solo play.  Nearly every mmo offers some solo play.  He specifically inferred there would be a small group and single player experience.  Maybe I'm reading too much into that and he was just using marketing speak.

You are, the solo experience is the main quest and many of the quests in general. It's unfortunate because these companies, if they are going to use scripted quest materials, should offer solo and group options with varying rewards.

It's just like The Secret World's Main quest or LOTRO's main quest or SWToR's main quest.

Or, one can go out and  explore solo though one can do that in most games to greater or lesser success.

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15956

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

8/21/13 1:26:04 PM#186
Originally posted by Razeekster
Originally posted by Kickaxe
Originally posted by Razeekster
I am so happy to hear this. I am getting so sick and tired of nickel and dime cash shops. Guess what this means? NO HAVING TO PAY FOR EXTRA BAG SPACE OR FOR EXTRA HOTBARS (looking at you SWTOR)!
 

You are excited to pay a subscription cause it means you can avoid the free-to-play pitfalls of a game that also has a subscription option to avoid said pitfalls?

Yeah, because it's cheaper in the end. $15 a month for bag space, hotbars, all the mounts that cash shops sell. Gear and costumes will be in the game too... There are a lot of reasons why subscription is better than F2P. A set price per month for everything is a huge bonus.

Not to mention one that released just as ESO is releasing.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  nolic1

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/01/07
Posts: 673

8/21/13 1:27:06 PM#187
Well as a true fan of the series before the move to mmo's i will say I like the games that came before and I like what I see here but I will not sub to a game again but thats just my choice game looks good but payment model not my thing so to those getting it enjoy.


To me I enjoy gaming I dont play to be uber I play to have fun. If a game is not fun to me guess what I move on and play something else till I find one that is. When I find that great game and not sure if in my life time there will be one I hope it has everything I want in an mmo.

  someforumguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/25/07
Posts: 3517

8/21/13 1:34:02 PM#188
Originally posted by NBlitz
Originally posted by someforumguy
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by someforumguy
Originally posted by NBlitz
Originally posted by someforumguy
<>

I guess Arenenet is running a charitable organization then with their B2P payment model.

I don't know about ANet.

I would wait for more of NCSOFT's Quarterly Earnings Reports before claiming anything else regarding ANet's B2P payment model. I take it you mean GW2 by this?

It did work well for GW1 but GW1 was an entirely different game altogether with expansions and what not.

Did you read the rest of that quoted thread? I was being sarcastic. Next time I will definately use /sarcasm ... /sarcasm off or something :/

now now, sarcasm doesn't always come off well on forum threads. It's so easy to miss that unless it's over the top.

Lol now now, there there tsk tsk.

If he read my comments in that same thread, he would've understood that I was being sarcastic.

I often can tell when someone's being sarcastic online. To me you didn't seem it. And the way I chose to respond to your...post, was me being as polite as possible and giving a response I could live with. I'm not sure you're being as polite at the moment.

He also wouldn't have to ask if we were talking about GW2. Which made it obvious that he took my last comment out of context.

You didn't state that it was GW2. Just "Arenanet" and B2P. Perhaps you meant GW1 too. Or maybe only GW2. Or maybe both. I don't know so I asked.

I didn't in that comment, but in the comments you snipped out. It is all still there, go and read if you want. I could look it up for you and quote the exact same quotes again that you snipped out ofc to give my lonely snippet the much needed context.

It doesn't even matter if I meant GW1 or GW2 or both. For the discussion, the payment model mattered. So either or both would work, because they both made it a success.

I give up.

 

  Zeroxin

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/21/06
Posts: 2518

My words are not here to sway you,they are here to make you understand.

8/21/13 1:34:59 PM#189
Originally posted by Adalwulff

This is great news!!!

No crappy item shops, no more nickel and dime bs, I couldn't be happier!!

This will promote a great community, one that plans to stay, not buzz thru the content and then flame the game on every forum on the internet.

This is just awesome!

I don't think you've been around long enough.

This is not a game.

  Magicabbage

Novice Member

Joined: 1/12/11
Posts: 95

8/21/13 1:41:44 PM#190

I can afford it , so it's not that. A lot of us are just tired of buying games and having to pay a monthly fee to play and are now obligated to play because "it would be stupid to pay for something and not use it" so now you are stuck. The f2p models are not all pay to win, actually I have never played one that is. I play a variety of game and I missed all of that during the years from EQ1-WoW and several other MMOs in between. During the peak of WoW, I didn't play one single game. I woke up- WoW, Got out of work- WoW. Any free time I had- WoW. I felt tied to the game BECAUSE of the sub fee. Rift is a good game. Some hate it because it seems to be a clone of a certain game, but their shop is great and the game is 100% completely free to play.

GW2 is not P2P, I admit there is no end game that I can think of, but there is very competitive PVP. nothing pay to win here.

Finally, if you think p2p is the answer and that it fixes a lot of things wrong in MMO community, then you are sorely mistaken and delusional.

  IceAge

Novice Member

Joined: 8/23/05
Posts: 1023

8/21/13 1:52:12 PM#191
Originally posted by r3t3
Originally posted by IceAge
Originally posted by Wighty

Looks like 2013/2014 is going to be dark days for the leechers who feel it's their right and entitlement to not have to pay nor support the very entertainment they are so passionate about.

Right there, just right there. To the cave with them..

Also, to does with a crystal ball , I don't care if Wildstar, or FF XIV ( nor TESO ), will go F2P in 1-2 years. Because I'll have fun in this time, without leechers, cryers and alike. I had a blast in Aion for 2 years when it has P2P, and I am expecting the same for Wildstar or FF.

So then, you should wait ...wait as much as you want until they go F2P, while I will enjoy them from the very first release day.

Good luck.

Realistically 1 to 2 years is a pipe dream in today's model of FTP you'll be lucky to get 3 months before there is talk of F2P and will go F2P well under 6 months.

I'm not being negative here or trolling, I was genuinely excited about hearing FF14 being P2P, then even more so with ESO, but i put my reality hat on and well, let’s be realistic here, there was a reason subs exited stage left years ago, right now atm they seems like a “cool” “shiny” thing, and that’s what they are banking on, it’s literally like ESO was just waiting to hear what the community thought of FF14 being P2P and it was well received, very well received,  “OK that’s our best milk the players option, while we finish off the F2P model”

I just get the feeling ESO doesn’t know what to do, as they are in over their heads, and after the initial negative community response to Whoop-Dee-Doo another wow clone, they seriously went into a tailspin are winging it every day, like they seriously don’t know what to do, just a feeling I get whenever I’ve tapped into hear what they have to say.

You know P2P does seem like a great option until all the realities of why it disappeared start to come back, and once it hits people’s reality again. They notice all the free to pay options again, no upfront cost, play whenever you want, don’t worry about anything other than your password to log in.

The biggest problem I had with subs is “ALL” games were subs. Then that one day, usually the day right after I paid for a fresh month I simply don't feel like playing that game for a while, so i cancel thinking f@ck, now I’m paying for something I’m not playing and how the beep does that make any sense. A month a half later I get and urge, but dunno, the whole sub thing, and what if the divine spark isn't there to play right now. So screw it I’ll go play something for free right now.

Problem we face right now is that more companies are going to take the SWTOR business model. Get box sales, milk the monthly while they work on the F2P model until this P2P novelty isn’t well received again, the industry will cool it then reintroduce it again, rinse repeat.

Yeah no way you'll see subs past 6 months. No way.

I don't know about you, but I always took the best decisions when it comes to MMO. I did not pre-order the fiasco SWTOR, beta it and I knew it's nothing. Same goes with AOC , WAR and other "big" games.

Before I go and pre-order a game, I am , and I mean, I AM deeply look into it, then if it's worth it, I will go ahead and pre-order. It worked very good , and I am sure it will work from now on too. I did not bought a single game without playing it with joy for at least 1 year.  So give me a P2P game which I enjoy very much for at least 1 year ( 2 preferable ) and I will be VERY happy. Tell me, if you are playing them, which F2P game lasted longer then a 1 year for you to play it, before moving on? Or 6 months. Or 3 months ..

On the other hand, I do NOT support F2P games, with their P2W cash shop. I cannot stand a cool kid, using his father credit card to buy things which he normally wouldn't have earned them ( or at least not to soon ) , and then laugh at my face as to how cool and good he is ( specially in PVP games ).

So thanks, but no thanks! F2P is a no no for me in every way. Also your 3 to 6 months comment for P2P games going F2P is a bit (very much) unrealistic. Give me an exemple of a game who was P2P and after 6 months he swiched to F2P. Even the all-mighty SWOTR took longer if I am not mistaken.

All in all, to each his own, but I simply cannot stand the people who think is their right to play any game for free. Do I want a BMW? Sure. Can I afford it? No. But that does not mean I am entitle to have one.

 

Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!

  Husvik

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/21/05
Posts: 447

Having fun who cares.

8/21/13 2:21:52 PM#192
Originally posted by DijonCyanide
Economically it is difficult times anyway for too many...

Exactly, reality bites!


My family wants to play this so I’m looking at 5 boxes, there is $300 up front then 75 a month to play, all to watch it go free a couple months later, yeah I’ll just let the one boy who’s really into ESO get it and have fun, then when it’s F2P well all play, for free.
 

  orbitxo

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/25/06
Posts: 1250

8/21/13 2:31:19 PM#193
Originally posted by grimgryphon
Thank the Gods!!!

Now if they can only guarantee it will keep the trash out. ;-)

unfortunately the ones paying a  sub and not getting what they feel they are entitled of the game are the ones who create the trash in the forums...

just sayin'

 

<.<

 
  orbitxo

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/25/06
Posts: 1250

8/21/13 2:37:37 PM#194
Originally posted by Magicabbage

I can afford it , so it's not that. A lot of us are just tired of buying games and having to pay a monthly fee to play and are now obligated to play because "it would be stupid to pay for something and not use it" so now you are stuck. The f2p models are not all pay to win, actually I have never played one that is. I play a variety of game and I missed all of that during the years from EQ1-WoW and several other MMOs in between. During the peak of WoW, I didn't play one single game. I woke up- WoW, Got out of work- WoW. Any free time I had- WoW. I felt tied to the game BECAUSE of the sub fee. Rift is a good game. Some hate it because it seems to be a clone of a certain game, but their shop is great and the game is 100% completely free to play.

GW2 is not P2P, I admit there is no end game that I can think of, but there is very competitive PVP. nothing pay to win here.

Finally, if you think p2p is the answer and that it fixes a lot of things wrong in MMO community, then you are sorely mistaken and delusional.

 

xcly.

 

when ur in college you have all this free time weeeeee!!!!

 

but when you step into the real world. your time becomes crucial on how to spend it financially and hourly. so i pick n choose my games wisely now.

lessonlearne di recently resubbed to eve- and logged in a few times to just skill and maintnance. i spent more time on my other games etc etc.

its not a financial thing for many it is , for me is more of would i rather b2p or resub, heck if i would resub i would goback to warhammer online!<--fave!

but lately the f2p and b2p games are pretty awsome! (GW2, firefall, Dead island, borderlands2..) it may not appeal to some but they do to me! oh and diablo 3 reaper of souls!!!!!!<--with a RMAH!

  Husvik

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/21/05
Posts: 447

Having fun who cares.

8/21/13 2:47:52 PM#195
Originally posted by IceAge
Originally posted by r3t3
Originally posted by IceAge
Originally posted by Wighty

Looks like 2013/2014 is going to be dark days for the leechers who feel it's their right and entitlement to not have to pay nor support the very entertainment they are so passionate about.

Right there, just right there. To the cave with them..

Also, to does with a crystal ball , I don't care if Wildstar, or FF XIV ( nor TESO ), will go F2P in 1-2 years. Because I'll have fun in this time, without leechers, cryers and alike. I had a blast in Aion for 2 years when it has P2P, and I am expecting the same for Wildstar or FF.

So then, you should wait ...wait as much as you want until they go F2P, while I will enjoy them from the very first release day.

Good luck.

Realistically 1 to 2 years is a pipe dream in today's model of FTP you'll be lucky to get 3 months before there is talk of F2P and will go F2P well under 6 months.

I'm not being negative here or trolling, I was genuinely excited about hearing FF14 being P2P, then even more so with ESO, but i put my reality hat on and well, let’s be realistic here, there was a reason subs exited stage left years ago, right now atm they seems like a “cool” “shiny” thing, and that’s what they are banking on, it’s literally like ESO was just waiting to hear what the community thought of FF14 being P2P and it was well received, very well received,  “OK that’s our best milk the players option, while we finish off the F2P model”

I just get the feeling ESO doesn’t know what to do, as they are in over their heads, and after the initial negative community response to Whoop-Dee-Doo another wow clone, they seriously went into a tailspin are winging it every day, like they seriously don’t know what to do, just a feeling I get whenever I’ve tapped into hear what they have to say.

You know P2P does seem like a great option until all the realities of why it disappeared start to come back, and once it hits people’s reality again. They notice all the free to pay options again, no upfront cost, play whenever you want, don’t worry about anything other than your password to log in.

The biggest problem I had with subs is “ALL” games were subs. Then that one day, usually the day right after I paid for a fresh month I simply don't feel like playing that game for a while, so i cancel thinking f@ck, now I’m paying for something I’m not playing and how the beep does that make any sense. A month a half later I get and urge, but dunno, the whole sub thing, and what if the divine spark isn't there to play right now. So screw it I’ll go play something for free right now.

Problem we face right now is that more companies are going to take the SWTOR business model. Get box sales, milk the monthly while they work on the F2P model until this P2P novelty isn’t well received again, the industry will cool it then reintroduce it again, rinse repeat.

Yeah no way you'll see subs past 6 months. No way.

I don't know about you, but I always took the best decisions when it comes to MMO. I did not pre-order the fiasco SWTOR, beta it and I knew it's nothing. Same goes with AOC , WAR and other "big" games.

Before I go and pre-order a game, I am , and I mean, I AM deeply look into it, then if it's worth it, I will go ahead and pre-order. It worked very good , and I am sure it will work from now on too. I did not bought a single game without playing it with joy for at least 1 year.  So give me a P2P game which I enjoy very much for at least 1 year ( 2 preferable ) and I will be VERY happy. Tell me, if you are playing them, which F2P game lasted longer then a 1 year for you to play it, before moving on? Or 6 months. Or 3 months ..

On the other hand, I do NOT support F2P games, with their P2W cash shop. I cannot stand a cool kid, using his father credit card to buy things which he normally wouldn't have earned them ( or at least not to soon ) , and then laugh at my face as to how cool and good he is ( specially in PVP games ).

So thanks, but no thanks! F2P is a no no for me in every way. Also your 3 to 6 months comment for P2P games going F2P is a bit (very much) unrealistic. Give me an exemple of a game who was P2P and after 6 months he swiched to F2P. Even the all-mighty SWOTR took longer if I am not mistaken.

All in all, to each his own, but I simply cannot stand the people who think is their right to play any game for free. Do I want a BMW? Sure. Can I afford it? No. But that does not mean I am entitle to have one.

 


SWTOR was under a year before going F2P, the talk of it F2P was much sooner than anyone expected even the biggest pessimist’s didn’t see it coming that soon.


As I stated I was very excited to find P2P back as an option however realistically, there is too much money to be made from F2P and as the novelty of the game wears out and subs plummet within 3 month of launch, which we all know is going to happen, they will immediately tap straight into F2P. Overall thats just wrong becasue people were helping them to support a certain model. You know.


I too had my hopes up too but even for me realistically, it’s allot of money just to be able to play a game with the family.
Sure if it’s just me, $30-60 entrance and $15 month is laughable if you’re getting your entertainment out of it, but let’s throw in another game, and another, or xx amount of family members, now it’s ridiculous especially when there are free options which are raking in the money. I can’t believe anyone in today’s market would buy an MMO, and play that and absolutely nothing else for a year or more, MMO’s are simply not built to sustain this sort of playing behavior anymore.


In the end I can’t take this P2P seriously from any mmo making such an announcement, it’s just not feasible in the long run, and the mmo industry didn’t change to F2P because they had too they did so to survive.
 

  Manestream

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/10/03
Posts: 579

8/21/13 2:48:35 PM#196

Don't mind the P2P model. Though the game HAS to be good, smooth, nice looking and worth the subscription. If its buggy, graphically inferior (not seen game footage yet) then it will flop, just like many others have done so recently. One will tell after the 1st 1-3months at the outcome.

  Precusor

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 4734

Aim Bot

8/21/13 2:49:33 PM#197
Hallelujah!
  LungingWolf

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/18/13
Posts: 60

Stuck in the desert as I look for the promised land of MMOs, or at least a nice oasis to sit at.

8/21/13 2:57:57 PM#198
Originally posted by SpottyGekko
Originally posted by bloodaxes

Hahaha, oh god this is hilarious!

I saw posts saying wildstar will fail for being P2P when there's ESO and EQN being f2p.

Now that ESO is P2P too their only hope for free is EQN.

Unless..... 

It is totally hilarious !

 

Great news, made even more enjoyable by the freeloader tears and predictions of doom, lol

 

2 down, 1 to go ?

 

I believe EQ:Next will definitely launch as an F2P title. However, I also expect it will have some VERY attractive freemium options and a huge marketing campaign to sell "Starter Packs". I cannot believe SOE will be happy to recoup the significant development cost of EQ:Next over 5 or 10 years of CS income from "cosmetic item" sales.


When I read all these posts which zealously advocate the F2P model, I genuinely cannot help but get freeloader vibes from a lot of it. Seriously, valid dissatisfaction with the services which currently existing subscription oriented MMOs provide has been made into a Trojan horse which freeloaders use to push for free stuff.

Ironically, the people who zealously swear by the F2P model are the same people who buy all kinds of stuff from F2P games' cash shops. But never mind that ...

Subscriptions, microtransactions ... it's the same expense, just repackaged. And pretending otherwise is just wishful thinking. But never mind that ...

Good grief ...  there's just no reasoning with greedy people ...

 

Waiting for: Citadel of Sorcery. Along the way, The Elder Scrolls Online (when it is F2P), Everquest: Next.

  Precusor

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 4734

Aim Bot

8/21/13 3:05:44 PM#199
Originally posted by bloodaxes

Hahaha, oh god this is hilarious!

I saw posts saying wildstar will fail for being P2P when there's ESO and EQN being f2p.

Now that ESO is P2P too their only hope for free is EQN.

Unless..... 

I know, right? and i don't think iv seen this much desperation from the f2p gamers.

 

 

  SpottyGekko

Elite Member

Joined: 9/26/04
Posts: 3169

8/21/13 3:09:11 PM#200

I might now actually play this game. If they're going to attempt a sub model, then they might actually put in enough effort to make the game interesting and attractive to me.

If the open beta is fun, I'll be pre-ordered and subbed faster than you can say "Skyrim" !

 

The F2P freeloaders can wait until the subscription elite have had their fun. Then they'll get their turn. Let them deal with the F2P nickle-and-diming after the rest of us have moved on... 

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