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WildStar

WildStar 

General Discussion  » Rapid drop in hype score. Will NCSoft reconsider pricing?

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116 posts found
  ariboersma

Novice Member

Joined: 9/26/11
Posts: 1817

8/20/13 3:54:44 PM#61
Originally posted by CrazKanuk
Originally posted by ariboersma
Originally posted by CrazKanuk
Originally posted by ariboersma
Originally posted by CrazKanuk

Considering that F2P/Cash Shop models have overtaken Subscription models as far as industry revenues are concerned, I'm really surprised that they went subscription. Seems so 90's, doesn't it? 

 

I would have much rather have seen a B2P with a sub option. People who say that F2P players don't pay are in the dark, imo. I've been playing F2P games for a while now and invest in nearly every game that I have played regularly. Only difference is that I don't feel obligated to play like I do with a subscription game. I think that's probably my biggest gripe with a subscription game. You invest all this time and at the end of it, if you don't continue to invest money every month, all your hard work is down the drain, unless you re-sub.

just an FYI, your tag is all wow related. So are you still paying for wow?

Lol, no, no I'm not (for like 4 months), but just goes to show that I'm not against subs. I just think that the model is out-dated. Unfortunately I think that using WoW as a measure for what should be subscription leaves very few games which are even close to being worthy. I have subbed to SWTOR, Rift, and others in addition to and after WoW as well, though, and I like the option to unsubscribe and still play periodically. 

see thats the problem.. there havent been any games WORTHY of a sub since wow was new.. nothing that has come out has been as good and I have hated wow for two expansions.. even though I still sub.. mostly because I REALLY want to see Garrosh dead! and my husband pretty much talking me into coming back for MOP then I got pokemon.. err I mean battle pet fever ;) Now I sure as hell do not know if Wildstar will be worthy but if it is... I want it to be a sub based game so that I am not forced to fork out so much cash to be competetive or to play the way I want and as I said before I want the devs to have to work to keep me wanted to pay 15 bucks a month. If Wildstar works out that way I will be in hog heaven.. if not I wait for ESO and play that until there is something better.

 

This is why I think that B2P with a sub option would have been much more effective. I think that going strictly subscription will make people sit back a little bit. Even though there are people here saying they prefer subscription and it's going to make them buy it, those are the exact same people who will wait and see, and let some other suckers try it first before they sink their own money into it. Result? Slow pre-sales, slower launch sales. If they can weather the storm for a few months AND be as good or better than WoW, then they might make it. Just too much of a risk to go 100% subscription, IMO. 

 

I would play this as a B2P game, but there are so many other games which are looking equally as good as this, that are free, that I just don't know if I will find the value to pay a sub. 

not with 3 free week trials per account.. and what games look equally good and are coming out and have said they would be free because I cant think of one.. ESO and to my knowledge EQN havent stated their payment platforms and nothing else is on the radar as far as I can tell (for this TYPE of game).

  CrazKanuk

Elite Member

Joined: 10/06/09
Posts: 1018

8/20/13 3:55:04 PM#62
Originally posted by VassagoMael

Who even tracks hype that closely? Who cares, there is a literal horde of free to play people that go around wrecking games and then move on to the next one. No one wants them. They will not get to do this to WildStar so they are mad. *world's smallest violin*

 

OMG, yes, and somehow they got into WoW....... Immaturity isn't exclusive to F2P games I'm afraid, nor is it exclusive to children, unfortunately. 

Crazkanuk

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  Rattenmann

Elite Member

Joined: 12/08/05
Posts: 327

8/20/13 3:55:19 PM#63

How can a sub be an "outdated method"?

Having fun ingame, without constantly flashing dollar signs all over the place... is outdated?

Playing a game and being even with others,... is outdated?

Doing pvp, without getting owned by people with a bigger wallet,... is outdated?

Enjoying a game and having a good time for a full month, for a fixed and NEVER raising sum of xx dollar, about even with ONE venture to a cinema (without buying a coke and popcorn),.... is outdated?

 

Seriously guys. I understand the desire to log into a game for free to check out if it suits you. I am in the same boat. But why did games become so dumbed down that we started to feel the need to try before we buy? Think about that and let good games get the money they deserve. They WILL get less then with a FTP model, due to missing out on the whales spending 10.000th of dollar.

But WE, as the player, will get a full experience of a good game. No drawbacks, no dumbing down, no roadblocks... just plain fun without needing to have the credit card next to our keyboard all the time.

Be glad, damn it. For me this news changed the hype as well. From "what the fuck is wildstar?" to "oh, a game doing it right... lets check what it is all about".

MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.

Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?

  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

8/20/13 3:58:23 PM#64
Originally posted by VassagoMael

Who even tracks hype that closely? Who cares, there is a literal horde of free to play people that go around wrecking games and then move on to the next one. No one wants them. They will not get to do this to WildStar so they are mad. *world's smallest violin*

 Same post was made for SWTOR...TERA...AOC...and so many others only to then be turned around with anger by the same person who cant figure out why their game went F2P and is in a massive downward spiral.

antiquated model, antiquated outlook...new failure.

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  VassagoMael

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/09/12
Posts: 515

8/20/13 4:02:30 PM#65
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by VassagoMael

Who even tracks hype that closely? Who cares, there is a literal horde of free to play people that go around wrecking games and then move on to the next one. No one wants them. They will not get to do this to WildStar so they are mad. *world's smallest violin*

 Same post was made for SWTOR...TERA...AOC...and so many others only to then be turned around with anger by the same person who cant figure out why their game went F2P and is in a massive downward spiral.

antiquated model, antiquated outlook...new failure.

I never played TERA, but for the other two, they were bad games that didn't deliver promised features. That is why they failed as pay to play. 

Free to play = content updates for the cash shop. Buy to play = content updates for the cash shop.
Subscription = Actual content updates!

  udon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/23/07
Posts: 1614

8/20/13 4:04:14 PM#66

My personal hype meter ticked up quite a lot when they confirmed it would be P2P.  My main concern now is the cash shop.  We know there will be one but don't know what's going to be in it.

I have said time and time again here that if a game wants any chance of drawing the hard core raid crowd it has to be sub based.  Like it or hate it Wildstar does seem to be aiming firmly at the large group progression based raiding crowd.  Given that we have not had a game like that in many years (Rift could arguably be called the last one with EQ2 and WoW being the last real ones) and the tendency of the raid games left like WoW and EQ2 to race to the bottom I think it's about time.

I don't know if it's a wise business strategy or not in 2013/2014 to focus a game so much on group gear progression.  I guess we will see how it turns out and anyways they can always relaunch as F2P in 6-9 months if it doesn't work out.  It's not like you can relaunch a F2P game as P2P.
  ariboersma

Novice Member

Joined: 9/26/11
Posts: 1817

8/20/13 4:05:07 PM#67
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by VassagoMael

Who even tracks hype that closely? Who cares, there is a literal horde of free to play people that go around wrecking games and then move on to the next one. No one wants them. They will not get to do this to WildStar so they are mad. *world's smallest violin*

 Same post was made for SWTOR...TERA...AOC...and so many others only to then be turned around with anger by the same person who cant figure out why their game went F2P and is in a massive downward spiral.

antiquated model, antiquated outlook...new failure.

SWTOR, Tera and AoC did not fail because of payment model.. the failed for copy cat syndrome, terrible combat + grindfest and laziness on the part of the devs.

  Jinxys

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/30/05
Posts: 366

8/20/13 4:07:11 PM#68

I am elated and very happy that they went with the subscription  based model. Cash shops are a trap and I've often ended up spending WAY over the monthly $14.95 I would pay for a regular sub. $15 bucks a month in my country is pretty much is the price of a couple of coffees and a fat muffin. I can imagine over time they will add more and more items to an in game store though and if the game does poorly then they will of course adopt a F2P model of some sort.

No matter how much the F2P crowd mooches and moans and whines about it  if the game is fun and keeps people interested they WILL pay and keep paying to play. F2P has never kept me in a game that was shit

 

- Jinxy

  Siris23

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/13/09
Posts: 188

8/20/13 4:09:46 PM#69
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by VassagoMael

Who even tracks hype that closely? Who cares, there is a literal horde of free to play people that go around wrecking games and then move on to the next one. No one wants them. They will not get to do this to WildStar so they are mad. *world's smallest violin*

 Same post was made for SWTOR...TERA...AOC...and so many others only to then be turned around with anger by the same person who cant figure out why their game went F2P and is in a massive downward spiral.

antiquated model, antiquated outlook...new failure.

The sub cost  wasn't the downfall of those games.

 

p2p is still a valid model as long as your game is worth the sub cost at release, or at least within 30 days of release.

  Ryowulf

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/28/05
Posts: 671

8/20/13 4:18:25 PM#70

I think Wildstar wants nice safe known chunk of change coming in right after going live to offset costs.  When subs start to decline they will add a trial or maybe go Btp or even ftp.  

The biggest problem with this is that you piss off your current base a little (although there will still be a sub option) and it can be seen from the outside as the game being a failure.

So to answer the question, no they will stick with the sub model, but they will talk up the credd system and try to convince people its just like ftp.

 

As for all the pro-sub talk. How are you able to talk about subbing like its such a great thing, when the proof is in the pudding?

Go back 5 years. Look at the AAA mmos that were released between then and now and tell me how many are successful subs with no cash shops? Yeah I thought so. Oh but that's because they are such bad games right? Funny how they are doing okay for themselves after changing their payment model.

 

  ariboersma

Novice Member

Joined: 9/26/11
Posts: 1817

8/20/13 4:23:47 PM#71
Originally posted by Ryowulf

I think Wildstar wants nice safe known chunk of change coming in right after going live to offset costs.  When subs start to decline they will add a trial or maybe go Btp or even ftp.  

The biggest problem with this is that you piss off your current base a little (although there will still be a sub option) and it can be seen from the outside as the game being a failure.

So to answer the question, no they will stick with the sub model, but they will talk up the credd system and try to convince people its just like ftp.

 

As for all the pro-sub talk. How are you able to talk about subbing like its such a great thing, when the proof is in the pudding?

Go back 5 years. Look at the AAA mmos that were released between then and now and tell me how many are successful subs with no cash shops? Yeah I thought so. Oh but that's because they are such bad games right? Funny how they are doing okay for themselves after changing their payment model.

 

there havent been any games good enough to be p2p in the last 5 years.. that why they are all f2p now. Very few of us(I wish me) have had the chance to play Wildstar more than a demo at a con to see whether it is worth the sub fee.. We HOPE it is.. it LOOKS like it is but we will not know until open beta or release. You cannot just assume it will bad like the rest of the games that came out within the last 5 years. You have to be weary but have hope for it.. or if its not your style.. just do not care. Also the only reason the are doing alright for themselves is because they cut back their employees enough and charge for things ppl need to buy and dont care if the ppl leave the game later as they already got money out of them.. they also do not have to put out new content like if they were a p2p game.

  Speakzzz

Novice Member

Joined: 4/16/11
Posts: 24

8/20/13 4:26:16 PM#72
Ok this is to the people that are saying F2P only people wouldn't pay money for a F2P game.  I, myself have spent around 2-300$ on League of Legends champs and skins.  That game is F2P and I usually only play F2P games.  This is majorly because high paying jobs are few and far between where I live.  I can throw 20$ at a game every now and then, but to pay 60$ upfront for a game and feel like im locked in to paying 20$ a month or I can't play just isn't viable for me.  Now with the F2P model with people like me you might actually get more like 60-80$ a month from me when I have it.  But maybe F2P gamers like me are few and far between as well.
  Zeus.CM

Novice Member

Joined: 6/13/10
Posts: 1797

www.croatian-maniacs.com

8/20/13 4:28:12 PM#73
B2P + Soft Cash Shop would be much better choice of business model for Wildstar.
  Shadowguy64

Novice Member

Joined: 4/11/13
Posts: 880

8/20/13 4:28:18 PM#74

Something tells me Widlstar isn't betting their financial success on an easily manipulated hype meter that they do not control or supervise.

 

Just a guess.

  doodphace

Elite Member

Joined: 6/19/12
Posts: 1471

8/20/13 4:34:42 PM#75
Originally posted by Eir_S
Originally posted by Precusor

Why do f2p players keep bringing up WoW as some sort of proof that the p2p mmos are dying out?

Not a F2P player myself, but you have a point.  They should be bringing up just about EVERY OTHER P2P GAME SINCE.  WoW is the exception, not the rule.  Why do non-F2P players keep forgetting that?

Except that the only F2P game where the developer actually announces current player numbers, SWTOR, still has a very sizable subscription base...one could argue that the amount of subs they do have (500k) is actually more than the active total players in a lot of other MMOs.

  Destai

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/31/09
Posts: 494

8/20/13 4:36:07 PM#76
Originally posted by brihtwulf

While there has been some support from the MMO community when it was announced that WildStar would be a full-purchase and subscription-based game, there has been a rather staggering negative response as well.  Their facebook page was full of irritated fans and prospective players ditching their plans to play the game, and on this website the game dropped from the top 5 anticipated, falling out of the top 10.

My question is, does anyone think they will reconsider this decision while they still have time, and was the timing of the announcement perhaps a way for them to "test the waters" to see if players would accept their plans?

It seems completely illogical that this would be their plan, considering the bleeding of subscribers WoW is experiencing, and the success of games that have gone to a hybrid model, like TERA, SWTOR, Lord of the Rings Online, and Rift.

Or, are they simply trying to milk as much money out of the die-hard fans as possible, then pull a "switcheroo" after 6 months and move the game to a hybrid model after getting full purchase price and subscriptions out of the dedicated few? 

Fine by me. I can't stand f2p games and them hounding money from me at every turn. LoTRO can rot in hell for their conversion, I could care less if the game is "successful" - I want it to be fun. Subscription and box purchase have far more content, people are on equal ground, and you don't get game hoppers. I'm fine if everyone and their little brother doesn't play Wildstar. I'll glad fork over the money to know the game is getting content. Based on what I've experienced in the game, it'll be worth playing. 

Current MMOs: Wildstar, Guild Wars 2, the Secret World, World of Warcraft

Past Loves: Guild Wars, Lord of the Rings Online, Everquest

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4735

8/20/13 4:59:27 PM#77
Originally posted by Precusor
Originally posted by kitarad
Originally posted by brihtwulf

 

It seems completely illogical that this would be their plan, considering the bleeding of subscribers WoW is experiencing, and the success of games that have gone to a hybrid model, like TERA, SWTOR, Lord of the Rings Online, and Rift.

 

By all accounts  and threads on this site SWTOR is a miserable failure but here to advance an argument it is deemed a success. I must applaud you Sir.

Sadly on this site... any mmo with 500k subs is considered a failed MMO..

Except EVE, Quite the success story too. Even though the unique player base is only a fraction of that. 

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  udon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/23/07
Posts: 1614

8/20/13 6:00:40 PM#78
Originally posted by Ryowulf

As for all the pro-sub talk. How are you able to talk about subbing like its such a great thing, when the proof is in the pudding?

Go back 5 years. Look at the AAA mmos that were released between then and now and tell me how many are successful subs with no cash shops? Yeah I thought so. Oh but that's because they are such bad games right? Funny how they are doing okay for themselves after changing their payment model.

What I take away from the last few years of this industry is that no game can support P2P unless it's best in class for what it does.  EVE and WoW can command a sub because they fit into that category even if many people have a hard time seeing why.

That doesn't mean a game can't survive being sub in this market but it better do what it does really well.  My personal opinion as someone who has raided progression content for a long time is there is a market for a game that does raid sized group content with progression really well.  WoW, EQ2 and Rift have all lost their way chasing after the more solo friendly market in that regard and there is a lot of discontent overall among people who raid towards those games.  If they can hit a home run there they will be able to carve out a good sized market niche for themselves.  Now that's a lot easier said than done with the siren song of PVP and solo players always trying to lure the developers into making design decisions that drive raiders away so I won't even guess if they will be able to pull it off or not.

What I do know is trying to fight F2P games and WoW for solo players or true PVP games for PVP players is a fools errand for a sub game for more than the first 60 days or so.

  doodphace

Elite Member

Joined: 6/19/12
Posts: 1471

8/20/13 6:04:10 PM#79
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by VassagoMael

Who even tracks hype that closely? Who cares, there is a literal horde of free to play people that go around wrecking games and then move on to the next one. No one wants them. They will not get to do this to WildStar so they are mad. *world's smallest violin*

 Same post was made for SWTOR...TERA...AOC...and so many others only to then be turned around with anger by the same person who cant figure out why their game went F2P and is in a massive downward spiral.

antiquated model, antiquated outlook...new failure.

If you think a game like SWTOR "failed" (in my view it only "failed" at its intended goal to overtake wow, but 500k subs is by no means a failed MMO) because of its payment model, and not because of its lackluster endgame, buggy and utterly broken game engine, and lack of features, then you need to stop drinking the EA PR cool aid....

 

  TheCrow2k

Novice Member

Joined: 10/19/09
Posts: 956

8/20/13 6:09:35 PM#80
I fully support Buy 2 Play, even B2P + Cash shop (no p2win) but subscription is dead. If they want wildstar to be niche like Eve then so be it. If not then they will have to lose the sub.
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