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WildStar

WildStar 

General Discussion  » What makes you certain that this game will do well as a P2P?

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64 posts found
  velmax

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/13/11
Posts: 203

 
OP  8/19/13 3:36:20 PM#1
In the past few years SWTOR, Rift, The Secret World, Aion, Tera and tons of more mmo's have gone F2P. What makes you certain that THIS game will do it right? 
  Robokapp

Elite Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4464

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

8/19/13 3:38:17 PM#2

the players it caters to entered the genre when it was P2P dominant.

 

 

  fubarbox1

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/29/12
Posts: 23

8/19/13 3:59:56 PM#3

Here's the thing, no one can be certain and whether it can flourish as a P2P game rest squarely on the developers shoulders. I personally do not believe there is some paradigm shift to F2P because P2P is outdated, games like WoW and EvE are doing just fine. I feel the reason for this false positive of F2P = better than P2P, is because we have been inundated with nothing but a string of mediocre games at best in the past few years.

Every game you have listed has had some major flaw that have caused it to be abandoned by player populations at large. The industry has just gotten into a rut in general trying to chase the formula that made WoW successful and they keep failing. Other than mediocre titles, the only other thing that pushes F2P/B2P are developers knowing they can get a large enough segment of the population to pay much more than they would have under a P2P model. This creates an environment that balances between P2Win and games that tend to be interesting enough to spend money in, but shallow overall. Which allows company to squeeze more short term money out of their players instead of focusing on keeping players long term.

The only game I feel that has used a free type model for the better is GW2, which was B2P. With that said, even though I loved the game at first and used the Gem Shop (short term) for some cosmetics, in the end, I got bored very fast. The game just felt shallow to me and I had no reason to stay. But as I go back over what I spent on bags and supplies, it came out to about $15 a month and a tad more sometimes when averaged. However, they did do something right by having new monthly content, even if it is only so so. this allows them to pull those short term burnouts back in occasionally and get them to buy something shinny, even if they rarely play.

Obviously this is all just my opinion and others will feel vastly different. Some of those different opinions will come from the "I want nice stuff and I want people to give it to me free, no matter how much it costs them" crowed or the part of the population that has game ADD, and probably a segment who actually think these games are cheaper in the long run (and they can be for a small bit of the population). But when it comes down to it, companies make money and if it was cheaper for the population as a whole, that would mean less money and that would not be acceptable to them. Finally, I think a P2P can do wonderful in this market, but it needs to get over this slump of mediocrity we have been bombarded with. If it cannot do this, it might as well go F2P, but only because its really not worth our time or money....

  Xarko

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/10/11
Posts: 374

8/19/13 4:03:16 PM#4
Well even for those few p2p months it will make them quite a lot of money.. so why not, I'd do the same. I bet a lot of hyped people will buy 3month or 6 month sub even before their free month is over. :)
  Karteli

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/09/12
Posts: 2704

8/19/13 4:06:34 PM#5

I was wondering about that as well, so I watched the latest trailer / gameplay footage.

 

It looks fairly kid friendly so maybe NCSoft / CS is banking on parents keeping active subs for their children?  $15 / month is a very cheap babysitter.  It has some quirky humor also to keep parents amused as well.

 

Overall though I'm amazed it didn't go B2P, since it isn't really offering anything other games don't already have, and the housing model offers a huge potential for a successful cashshop w/ B2P.

Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  Zanagi

Novice Member

Joined: 7/06/13
Posts: 30

8/19/13 4:30:45 PM#6

P2P!! If it keep the freeloaders out.  I'm in!!! 

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5492

8/19/13 4:50:12 PM#7

It won't.  No one has given a compelling reason why this will do well.  The same goes for FFXIV:ARR, only they aren't shooting for mass appeal like Wildstar so they might actually survive and flourish on a niche sub user base.

Subs are really only going to work for niche games going forward.

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  furbans

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/10/13
Posts: 870

8/19/13 5:43:10 PM#8

OP pretty much echoed my thoughts on Carbines business model.  Too many times have devs tooted their horn on how their game is so great or how it is different or why you should play their game vs WoW.

The market has expanded tremendously with EQN, Rift, Neverwinter, ect ect that makes P2P MMOs hard to justify.  I'm dubious that Wildstar will be much different.

I like all the trailers and game concepts but with their business model announcement I'll be waiting on the side lines to see how it pans out.  If the game is all this and that then I would gladly pay to retail + sub but too many times have I fallen for the eagerness of a new shiney MMO and delve head first instead of waiting and testing the waters. 

2014 will be a very good year just with single player RPGs like Wastelands 2 and Project Eternity and the prospect of EQN so I'll be biding my time.

  jesusjuice69

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/07/13
Posts: 293

8/19/13 5:46:12 PM#9
Originally posted by furbans

OP pretty much echoed my thoughts on Carbines business model.  Too many times have devs tooted their horn on how their game is so great or how it is different or why you should play their game vs WoW.

The market has expanded tremendously with EQN, Rift, Neverwinter, ect ect that makes P2P MMOs hard to justify.  I'm dubious that Wildstar will be much different.

I like all the trailers and game concepts but with their business model announcement I'll be waiting on the side lines to see how it pans out.  If the game is all this and that then I would gladly pay to retail + sub but too many times have I fallen for the eagerness of a new shiney MMO and delve head first instead of waiting and testing the waters. 

2014 will be a very good year just with single player RPGs like Wastelands 2 and Project Eternity and the prospect of EQN so I'll be biding my time.

Name a F2P MMORPG that isn't shit.

Go on, I will wait.   Ohh, what is that?  There aren't any...well damn!

How long do you think it will take?  20 years?

Well you keep on waiting, and I will enjoy WS!

  Precusor

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 4687

Aim Bot

8/19/13 5:55:15 PM#10
Originally posted by jesusjuice69
Originally posted by furbans

OP pretty much echoed my thoughts on Carbines business model.  Too many times have devs tooted their horn on how their game is so great or how it is different or why you should play their game vs WoW.

The market has expanded tremendously with EQN, Rift, Neverwinter, ect ect that makes P2P MMOs hard to justify.  I'm dubious that Wildstar will be much different.

I like all the trailers and game concepts but with their business model announcement I'll be waiting on the side lines to see how it pans out.  If the game is all this and that then I would gladly pay to retail + sub but too many times have I fallen for the eagerness of a new shiney MMO and delve head first instead of waiting and testing the waters. 

2014 will be a very good year just with single player RPGs like Wastelands 2 and Project Eternity and the prospect of EQN so I'll be biding my time.

Name a F2P MMORPG that isn't shit.

Go on, I will wait.   Ohh, what is that?  There aren't any...well damn!

How long do you think it will take?  20 years?

Well you keep on waiting, and I will enjoy WS!

The greatest irony about the f2p market is that the former p2p mmos are their best games. lol

  Chuckanar

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/05/04
Posts: 186

8/19/13 5:58:29 PM#11
For the usual reasons. I believe in thinking positive. If you look for failure you will find it.
  Slappy1

Novice Member

Joined: 12/27/12
Posts: 464

8/19/13 6:03:21 PM#12
I see the game going ftp within 6-9 month's or so.I just don't see this pay model working and with other ftp options that are just as good,nahh.

Some day I'm going to put a sword through your eye and out the back of your skull!

Arya Stark

  jesusjuice69

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/07/13
Posts: 293

8/19/13 6:19:45 PM#13
Originally posted by Slappy1
I see the game going ftp within 6-9 month's or so.I just don't see this pay model working and with other ftp options that are just as good,nahh.

You haven't played it, but the other options are just as good?  lol

  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 6538

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

8/19/13 8:36:05 PM#14

Doing well is just an opinion,i don't believe in any form of free loading,your not going to get money from a stone.

A sub fee works because it gives the developer a MUCH better idea on how to handle it's resources,there is a lot less guess work.

The only thing i question is their over confidence in their own game,they need to get in more touch with the community.

FFXI for example has more content than ANY MMORPG on the planet,that game never had big numbers.Wow had big numbers and all it did was yellow marker questing,poor graphics,and instances,so not like it delivered a big time Triple A effort.Even the START of Wow is quite uninspiring,you are tossed into a boring wilderness with a few NPC's and yellow markers,not a very exciting way to entice gamer's.

Point is success has a LOT of luck behind it,timing is huge,marketing is huge and a lot of BS PR work seems to work wonders as well.There is a LOT more to success than simply having confidence that you are delivering the content.

None the less,imo they are doing the right thing,i like their pay model at least on the surface it looks good.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Napolianboo#p/u/15/rCYLLQCNc1w
Samoan Diamond

  Dornin34

Novice Member

Joined: 8/13/13
Posts: 16

8/19/13 10:05:49 PM#15
Everyone likes to point to wow as being a success for the monthly sub model. People forget that game came out a decade ago when the market was drastically different. It is also losing market share and subs at a very rapid rate. Somehow NCsoft managed to bring all the disadvantages of pay to play and pay to win into one failed business model. This short term cash grab pretty much just tells me they are only interested in making a big chunk of money at release and then they don't really care. Probably because they will be more interested in their own title LE by then. Sorry carbine, it looks like you are going to be getting the Tabula Rasa treatment from NCsoft. WoW says thank you for being so short sighted. 
  Prepared

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/11/13
Posts: 85

8/19/13 10:07:03 PM#16
Originally posted by velmax
In the past few years SWTOR, Rift, The Secret World, Aion, Tera and tons of more mmo's have gone F2P. What makes you certain that THIS game will do it right? 

 

Several things...

 

1. It's cartoony look that all of the current players in the number 1 MMORPG in the nation will be looking at.  That didn't exist for those other games you mentioned.

2. A lot of the employees of the company that make this game are from the number 1 MMORPG in the nation.  That didn't exist for those other games you mentioned.  Sure there may have been 1 or two or a few but not like this company which is based in the same area as the other company (around the Los Angeles area).

3. Player housing is designed into the game from the ground up, not as an add-on later after the game was put together.  This is HUGE!  This doesn't exist in any of the games you mentioned nor in most of the MMORPGs available.

4. The PvP aspect of this game is more similar to the number 1 MMORPG than those other MMORPGs you've mentioned.

 

 

  Ryowulf

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/28/05
Posts: 667

8/19/13 10:38:59 PM#17

There is no reason to think Wildstar has it right assuming its even possible to get and hold onto a large sub base over a long period of time.  Lets not forget, the cash shop-less sub model can only work by having at least X number of subs (based on how much was spent/is being spent on the game etc).

A smaller game can do sub and find a niche, because its costs are lower.  A big AAA title cost ALOT to make in today's world.  What that means is that the game needs to retain a higher number of people than older games like WoW or DAOC.  Why didn't SW or Tor or Tera stay sub?  One reason was because, there are sooo many games in the market that it was impossible for them to hold onto enough people over the long haul.

Either Wildstar understands the current market and is just doing a cash grab then will add some trial/ftp/btp when they have milked all the subbers dry.

or

They don't understand the market or think they are that one special pony that will win where every other new AAA mmo failed.

Oh and all that Wow talk, remember WoW is/was a big ip.  Wildstar isn't 

But hey spend your money however you want, but understand it will add some sort of cashshop/ftp down the road.  Then again, after 4-6 months you might have played your fill and won't care anyway?

  Slappy1

Novice Member

Joined: 12/27/12
Posts: 464

8/19/13 10:53:37 PM#18
Originally posted by jesusjuice69
Originally posted by Slappy1
I see the game going ftp within 6-9 month's or so.I just don't see this pay model working and with other ftp options that are just as good,nahh.

You haven't played it, but the other options are just as good?  lol

How do you know I haven't played it?Stop assuming!!!

Some day I'm going to put a sword through your eye and out the back of your skull!

Arya Stark

  Slappy1

Novice Member

Joined: 12/27/12
Posts: 464

8/19/13 11:03:27 PM#19
Originally posted by jesusjuice69
Originally posted by Slappy1
I see the game going ftp within 6-9 month's or so.I just don't see this pay model working and with other ftp options that are just as good,nahh.

You haven't played it, but the other options are just as good?  lol

here's another for you,even if the game played as well as WoW and has housing,it's below what I can play for free.I can play Rift/Neverwinter/EQ2/PoE/Tera and so on for free,why would I pay $15 a month for less?Rift offers more for free.

Some day I'm going to put a sword through your eye and out the back of your skull!

Arya Stark

  TalRasha

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/20/05
Posts: 825

8/21/13 8:26:35 AM#20
Originally posted by Slappy1
Originally posted by jesusjuice69
Originally posted by Slappy1
I see the game going ftp within 6-9 month's or so.I just don't see this pay model working and with other ftp options that are just as good,nahh.

You haven't played it, but the other options are just as good?  lol

here's another for you,even if the game played as well as WoW and has housing,it's below what I can play for free.I can play Rift/Neverwinter/EQ2/PoE/Tera and so on for free,why would I pay $15 a month for less?Rift offers more for free.

Because it's new.

This will be reason enough for many. Only a few will remain for long of course (that is, those players who are always looking for something new). But perhaps by that time it will be converted to f2p just like the rest.
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