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Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn

Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn 

General Discussion  » Whats up with the end game mentality i see alrdy...

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55 posts found
  Eir_S

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/07/11
Posts: 4700

GW2 socialist.

8/10/13 2:04:21 PM#21
What do you mean "already"?  The end game mentality has been the same since 2005.
  User Deleted
8/10/13 2:09:03 PM#22

On the contrary, I think a lot of crafters will call this place home for a while. I could care less about combat or raiding and there will be plenty for me to do in this game for quite a while.

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4609

8/10/13 3:14:13 PM#23

I think players are vastly underestimating the time and work that will be required to be raid ready.

You'll need to have leveled a Job. Not a class but a job, that's going to require minimally leveling 2 classes. From what I've seen Crafting is going to be a big part of endgame too, So I assume you'll probably need to have some crafting classes leveled along side.

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  Murugan

Novice Member

Joined: 4/18/08
Posts: 1567

8/10/13 4:16:46 PM#24
Originally posted by GeezerGamer

I think players are vastly underestimating the time and work that will be required to be raid ready.

You'll need to have leveled a Job. Not a class but a job, that's going to require minimally leveling 2 classes. From what I've seen Crafting is going to be a big part of endgame too, So I assume you'll probably need to have some crafting classes leveled along side.

All crafting is tradeable.  A person does not have to have a craft themselves in order to get crafted gear/materia melds/repairs etc.

 

A job requires leveling one class to 15, and your other subclass to whatever level the abilities are that you want to borrow from them in order to play optimally.

 

It then requires you to finish the main storyline in order to unlock endgame contents, do entry dungeons (AV/CC/possibly others), Primals (Ifrit, Garuda, Titan) to farm for gear, and then you hit the current endgame at launch consisting of Relic Weapon quests for each job, and Labyrinth of Bahamut.

 

Relic Weapon quests requires you to do quite a bit of different endgame activities (extreme versions of primals/dungeons, and certain other things).  It takes quite a bit of work.

 

We don't know how large the 8-person wing of Labyrinth of Bahamut available at launch is, but it is supposed to be very difficult and will likely cater mostly to people who have already completed relic weapons.

 

How long this will take legacy characters many of which already have all 50's is unknown.  However Legacy people have Titan Extreme, possibly relic weapons +1, and LoB to do with Crystal Tower coming in November (and hopefully other endgame activities, especially if the entry wing to Crystal Tower is geared toward casual players).

 

This game NEEDS a variety of endgame content (both casual and hardcore), and to regularly provide it in order to keep some people subscribed.  Yoshida knows it and has acknowledged it.  If you don't like endgame it is not your concern, it is however the concern of the people who matter: those who develop the game.

 

SE also has a good track record of endgame content additions from FFXI, and I would consider their record with FFXIV 1.0 pretty decent considering the limitations of fixing the game as much as they could while still hampered by a faulty engine and also developing ARR alongside it.

 

Originally posted by Dihoru
What happened : Themeparks. If all games were sandboxes then there would be no endgame mentality because there would be no endgame.

Yes what a lazy solution to a problem.  Not enough content?  Don't worry we have NO CONTENT!!  YAY!

 

Hope you like PvP and role playing because that's all you've got to look forward to forever.  Oh and lots of cash shop crap to help you immerse yourself in your psuedo reality!  Second Life best MMORPG of all time!!!!!!!!

http://xivpads.com/?1595680
http://guildwork.com/users/murugan

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4609

8/10/13 4:30:16 PM#25
Originally posted by Murugan
Originally posted by GeezerGamer

I think players are vastly underestimating the time and work that will be required to be raid ready.

You'll need to have leveled a Job. Not a class but a job, that's going to require minimally leveling 2 classes. From what I've seen Crafting is going to be a big part of endgame too, So I assume you'll probably need to have some crafting classes leveled along side.

All crafting is tradeable.  A person does not have to have a craft themselves in order to get crafted gear/materia melds/repairs etc.

 

A job requires leveling one class to 15, and your other subclass to whatever level the abilities are that you want to borrow from them in order to play optimally.

 

It then requires you to finish the main storyline in order to unlock endgame contents, do entry dungeons (AV/CC/possibly others), Primals (Ifrit, Garuda, Titan) to farm for gear, and then you hit the current endgame at launch consisting of Relic Weapon quests for each job, and Labyrinth of Bahamut.

 

Relic Weapon quests requires you to do quite a bit of different endgame activities (extreme versions of primals/dungeons, and certain other things).  It takes quite a bit of work.

 

We don't know how large the 8-person wing of Labyrinth of Bahamut available at launch is, but it is supposed to be very difficult and will likely cater mostly to people who have already completed relic weapons.

 

How long this will take legacy characters many of which already have all 50's is unknown.  However Legacy people have Titan Extreme, possibly relic weapons +1, and LoB to do with Crystal Tower coming in November (and hopefully other endgame activities, especially if the entry wing to Crystal Tower is geared toward casual players).

 

This game NEEDS a variety of endgame content (both casual and hardcore), and to regularly provide it in order to keep some people subscribed.  Yoshida knows it and has acknowledged it.  If you don't like endgame it is not your concern, it is however the concern of the people who matter: those who develop the game.

 

SE also has a good track record of endgame content additions from FFXI, and I would consider their record with FFXIV 1.0 pretty decent considering the limitations of fixing the game as much as they could while still hampered by a faulty engine and also developing ARR alongside it.

 

Originally posted by Dihoru
What happened : Themeparks. If all games were sandboxes then there would be no endgame mentality because there would be no endgame.

Yes what a lazy solution to a problem.  Not enough content?  Don't worry we have NO CONTENT!!  YAY!

 

Hope you like PvP and role playing because that's all you've got to look forward to forever.  Oh and lots of cash shop crap to help you immerse yourself in your psuedo reality!  Second Life best MMORPG of all time!!!!!!!!

It may be an impression I got from soemthign i read, because I can't find it, but didn't SE say that crafting was going to be important for endgame? And I don't mean that just everything being tradeable, but that raiding itself was going to involve crafting? Like high end mats being part of loot drops and such. I say that because it could just have been a hypothetical conversation so I can't verify it. 

 

Also, I thought the job leveled with the classes, but you still had to level at least 2 classes at a minimum.

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  Murugan

Novice Member

Joined: 4/18/08
Posts: 1567

8/10/13 4:36:08 PM#26
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by Murugan
Originally posted by GeezerGamer

I think players are vastly underestimating the time and work that will be required to be raid ready.

You'll need to have leveled a Job. Not a class but a job, that's going to require minimally leveling 2 classes. From what I've seen Crafting is going to be a big part of endgame too, So I assume you'll probably need to have some crafting classes leveled along side.

All crafting is tradeable.  A person does not have to have a craft themselves in order to get crafted gear/materia melds/repairs etc.

 

A job requires leveling one class to 15, and your other subclass to whatever level the abilities are that you want to borrow from them in order to play optimally.

 

It then requires you to finish the main storyline in order to unlock endgame contents, do entry dungeons (AV/CC/possibly others), Primals (Ifrit, Garuda, Titan) to farm for gear, and then you hit the current endgame at launch consisting of Relic Weapon quests for each job, and Labyrinth of Bahamut.

 

Relic Weapon quests requires you to do quite a bit of different endgame activities (extreme versions of primals/dungeons, and certain other things).  It takes quite a bit of work.

 

We don't know how large the 8-person wing of Labyrinth of Bahamut available at launch is, but it is supposed to be very difficult and will likely cater mostly to people who have already completed relic weapons.

 

How long this will take legacy characters many of which already have all 50's is unknown.  However Legacy people have Titan Extreme, possibly relic weapons +1, and LoB to do with Crystal Tower coming in November (and hopefully other endgame activities, especially if the entry wing to Crystal Tower is geared toward casual players).

 

This game NEEDS a variety of endgame content (both casual and hardcore), and to regularly provide it in order to keep some people subscribed.  Yoshida knows it and has acknowledged it.  If you don't like endgame it is not your concern, it is however the concern of the people who matter: those who develop the game.

 

SE also has a good track record of endgame content additions from FFXI, and I would consider their record with FFXIV 1.0 pretty decent considering the limitations of fixing the game as much as they could while still hampered by a faulty engine and also developing ARR alongside it.

 

Originally posted by Dihoru
What happened : Themeparks. If all games were sandboxes then there would be no endgame mentality because there would be no endgame.

Yes what a lazy solution to a problem.  Not enough content?  Don't worry we have NO CONTENT!!  YAY!

 

Hope you like PvP and role playing because that's all you've got to look forward to forever.  Oh and lots of cash shop crap to help you immerse yourself in your psuedo reality!  Second Life best MMORPG of all time!!!!!!!!

It may be an impression I got from soemthign i read, because I can't find it, but didn't SE say that crafting was going to be important for endgame? And I don't mean that just everything being tradeable, but that raiding itself was going to involve crafting? Like high end mats being part of loot drops and such. I say that because it could just have been a hypothetical conversation so I can't verify it. 

 

Also, I thought the job leveled with the classes, but you still had to level at least 2 classes at a minimum.

Yes it will have that, but none of that requires you yourself to have the craft leveled.

 

There are benefits economically and to convenience to level up crafts.  However it is not necessary for your own progression of your battle job

 

Jobs do level the class it is equipped to, but if you aren't going to play Dragoon there is no reason you have to level Lancer past 34 when you get the last cross class ability (well there are achievements etc.).

 

I doubt most fresh start players will even have started working on their first relic weapons by November.  But that isn't the point, it is about keeping those that do, and the many legacy players content with content.

http://xivpads.com/?1595680
http://guildwork.com/users/murugan

  KingAlkaiser

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/12/12
Posts: 56

8/10/13 4:39:17 PM#27

OP you can thank World of warcraft for this "endgame mentality" as FF14 ARR looks into WoW for inspiration for their game and "WoW standards".   no offense to any but its true.

 

I also played FF11 and also feel the same way, I played for 6 years and endgame was more after thought because of the journey to endgame was like a adventure.......like a rpg.  Nowadays everyone tries to copy WoW and this has become the standard which many mmorpg copy from.

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4739

8/10/13 4:57:03 PM#28

- OP

Welcome to linear, lvl progression based games. It's one of the bi-products of this form of game design and has been so even before WoW. As long as a game is structured this way, it will only get worse with each new game. Because as each new game gets made, more and more people have already done that race to 'endgame'. Many are tired of it, and just wanna get it out of the way.

This is an issue that has been talked about for over a decade now, and is a large part of why newer MMOs are trying to abandon these older game designs, and start experimenting with new approaches.

  Quorina

Novice Member

Joined: 12/06/12
Posts: 43

8/10/13 5:00:25 PM#29
Originally posted by Fish_Tacos

It's just that there are different people with different psychological types. People who are into RP and exploration probably have different psychologies than min/maxers and hardcore raiders. An introverted intuitive type will be different than an extroverted judgmental type (just offering examples from one psych type test: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keirsey_Temperament_Sorter ).

 

It's funny that you bring that up, because I've always wondered how our personality affects the way we play. Personally, as an INFP, I like both the journey and the end-game to be good.

I remember playing in Vanilla WoW and it took me 3 months to get to end-game. I was mostly messing around in 40-49 BGs as a 49 mage killing all the Alliance in sight in Arathi Basin. People thought I was weird spending so much time in low-level BGs, but I didn't. It was probably the best time I've ever had in a MMO. Ever.

Now? Everything is rush, rush, rush, and I agree with the person on top of page 4 who blamed WoW, the granddaddy of themeparks, for this mentality. That's pretty much where it started I noticed, around the time of WotLK, but perhaps even during TBC. 

Sometimes people accuse me of "rushing" when I play a game a little too much and reach end-game a little too early. Happened in SWTOR. Not my fault that they made the journey way too short and easy.

But all in all, this rush to end-game mentality makes me uncomfortable, but it is a fact of life in a themepark MMO. I won't be rushing to end-game in FFXIV, and if some guild or whatever doesn't like it? They can KMFA!

  Chrisbox

Elite Member

Joined: 7/15/10
Posts: 1496

8/10/13 5:02:23 PM#30

Why is it a problem if I'm in a guild that enjoys progressing through the hardest content in the game?

That doesn't mean we are rushing to do said content, but that is our goal.  

Played-Everything
Playing-FFXIV:ARR

  time007

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/09/09
Posts: 349

"Get your FPS out of my MMORPG" - Timetrapper (me)

8/10/13 5:10:07 PM#31

Ugh, that's another phrase I don't like.  The phrase "geared for endgame".  The word "geared" came from WoW and its stupid tiers and gear grind.  WTF happened to just zerging non instanced monsters in zones and in dungeons where there weren't any player caps?  I mean, there's nothing better than just sending wave after wave of bodies at huge dragons or whatever monster and just watching hundreds of people take em down.  Now you get this lame 10 man, 20 man instanced raid crap.  Bleh, lets go back to old school mechanics, where everything wasn't about the little circle of 10 people fully tweaked out in their T5 gear running the same dungeon at 6:30pm everyweek because all the other dungeons they are locked out of blah blah.

 

Dungeon locks, gear grinding, it all comes from WoW and contributes to the end game mentality for raiding that the OP is talking about.  They need to make the way to endgame hard as hell, like make it take months.  That'll take people's minds off endgame and make em worry about what's in front of them.

  Murugan

Novice Member

Joined: 4/18/08
Posts: 1567

8/10/13 5:11:00 PM#32
Originally posted by Chrisbox

Why is it a problem if I'm in a guild that enjoys progressing through the hardest content in the game?

That doesn't mean we are rushing to do said content, but that is our goal.  

It is a problem because not everyone is in a guild that does endgame content.  So their jealousy fuels their rage against the "endgame mentality", then they name drop tropes like "WoW did it" despite the fact that endgame has been a focus in MMORPG's since EQ1, was through FFXI, and just because leveling (which was always something many people did to get to endgame) is shorter these days they claim the focus has shifted.

 

It hasn't.

 

Some people enjoy endgame, some either don't or can't.  However they (developers) have always catered to endgame players, the alternative would be a never ending leveling grind (with constant cap raises), or an empty sandbox void.  People play games to have something to do, and for many leveling is not only not enough to satisfy their time in game but it is not something they look forward to.

http://xivpads.com/?1595680
http://guildwork.com/users/murugan

  twrule

Novice Member

Joined: 7/15/09
Posts: 1260

8/10/13 5:11:42 PM#33
I don't see why these two things (planning for endgame and 'enjoying the journey')are mutually exclusive. I'm excited about the game, so I'm already planning out how I'm going to go about my leveling 'journey' and speculating about how to best end up in a good position for endgame content. That doesn't mean I have to spend every moment of gameplay watching my xp bar instead of enjoying the atmosphere or something. If anything, because I already have a plan, I can spend less time bumbling around to figure out the games systems, and more time enjoying the game. Do I really have to point out that planning is actually *fun* in its own way for someone who is excited about the game?
  Murugan

Novice Member

Joined: 4/18/08
Posts: 1567

8/10/13 5:13:41 PM#34
Originally posted by time007

Ugh, that's another phrase I don't like.  The phrase "geared for endgame".  The word "geared" came from WoW and its stupid tiers and gear grind.  WTF happened to just zerging non instanced monsters in zones and in dungeons where there weren't any player caps?  I mean, there's nothing better than just sending wave after wave of bodies at huge dragons or whatever monster and just watching hundreds of people take em down.  Now you get this lame 10 man, 20 man instanced raid crap.  Bleh, lets go back to old school mechanics, where everything wasn't about the little circle of 10 people fully tweaked out in their T5 gear running the same dungeon at 6:30pm everyweek because all the other dungeons they are locked out of blah blah.

 

Dungeon locks, gear grinding, it all comes from WoW and contributes to the end game mentality for raiding that the OP is talking about.  They need to make the way to endgame hard as hell, like make it take months.  That'll take people's minds off endgame and make em worry about what's in front of them.

So just do FATE?

 

They are a lot more challenging than most EQ1/FFXI zergable content because they all scale depending on the number of players, but they still allow for it.

 

That is exactly how they are designed, you can totally zerg them.  Most of us don't like zerging as much at endgame (and even in EQ1/FFXI we preferred to gear ourselves and rely on smaller groups to take down the same HNM/World bosses).  We prefer more challenging content (though I agree I am not a fan of low player capped content, and prefer large scale raiding).

 

I am also vehemently opposed to lockouts at endgame, and "dailies" which imo are the real problem in today's endgames.  Luckily I don't see ARR having either of those, as 1.0 did not.

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  KingAlkaiser

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/12/12
Posts: 56

8/10/13 5:18:18 PM#35
Originally posted by time007

Ugh, that's another phrase I don't like.  The phrase "geared for endgame".  The word "geared" came from WoW and its stupid tiers and gear grind.  WTF happened to just zerging non instanced monsters in zones and in dungeons where there weren't any player caps?  I mean, there's nothing better than just sending wave after wave of bodies at huge dragons or whatever monster and just watching hundreds of people take em down.  Now you get this lame 10 man, 20 man instanced raid crap.  Bleh, lets go back to old school mechanics, where everything wasn't about the little circle of 10 people fully tweaked out in their T5 gear running the same dungeon at 6:30pm everyweek because all the other dungeons they are locked out of blah blah.

 

Dungeon locks, gear grinding, it all comes from WoW and contributes to the end game mentality for raiding that the OP is talking about.  They need to make the way to endgame hard as hell, like make it take months.  That'll take people's minds off endgame and make em worry about what's in front of them.

 

this guy clearly gets it and read the OP first post about it.

maybe people forgot and have derailed a bit but:

/quote

"Why are people thinking about end game before its even released yet?

Back in 2003 when ffxi came out, end game was an after thought. All the expention pacts that came out for the first 1-2 years was focused for all levels. There was leterally tons of stuff to do from 1-75. I played ffxi for prolly a year before I even got into end-game. That game for a long time was about the journey not the endgame."

 

This is exactly how a lot of us feel and were discussing tho.  no one flaming WoW but it needs credit were its due, and yes they are looking into WoW "standards" which was heavily involved around rushing and zerging to endgame as fast as possible/skipping everything in between and be all about tiers/etc as the "starting point of the game and all focus"

nothing against this style but its been bleed and done to death. /endquote

  Murugan

Novice Member

Joined: 4/18/08
Posts: 1567

8/10/13 5:22:19 PM#36
Originally posted by KingAlkaiser
Originally posted by time007

Ugh, that's another phrase I don't like.  The phrase "geared for endgame".  The word "geared" came from WoW and its stupid tiers and gear grind.  WTF happened to just zerging non instanced monsters in zones and in dungeons where there weren't any player caps?  I mean, there's nothing better than just sending wave after wave of bodies at huge dragons or whatever monster and just watching hundreds of people take em down.  Now you get this lame 10 man, 20 man instanced raid crap.  Bleh, lets go back to old school mechanics, where everything wasn't about the little circle of 10 people fully tweaked out in their T5 gear running the same dungeon at 6:30pm everyweek because all the other dungeons they are locked out of blah blah.

 

Dungeon locks, gear grinding, it all comes from WoW and contributes to the end game mentality for raiding that the OP is talking about.  They need to make the way to endgame hard as hell, like make it take months.  That'll take people's minds off endgame and make em worry about what's in front of them.

 

this guy clearly gets it and read the OP first post about it.

maybe people forgot and have derailed a bit but:

/quote

"Why are people thinking about end game before its even released yet?

Back in 2003 when ffxi came out, end game was an after thought. All the expention pacts that came out for the first 1-2 years was focused for all levels. There was leterally tons of stuff to do from 1-75. I played ffxi for prolly a year before I even got into end-game. That game for a long time was about the journey not the endgame."

 

This is exactly how a lot of us feel and were discussing tho.  no one flaming WoW but it needs credit were its due, and yes they are looking into WoW "standards" which was heavily involved around rushing and zerging to endgame as fast as possible/skipping everything in between and be all about tiers/etc as the "starting point of the game and all focus"

nothing against this style but its been bleed and done to death. /endquote

There was NOTHING good about FFXI's "content" before cap.  BCNM, missions, unlocking advanced jobs, they were all a grind, they were all easy, and maybe you played for them but if it weren't for the promise of endgame myself and many others would never have made through the long monotonous grind of the same mobs, in the same few zones that was pre-endgame FFXI.

 

I was camping Kings well within a year of launch of FFXI, I killed my first HNM within 6 months.  You know nothing about FFXI, and yet you keep preaching as if just because you didn't do endgame that it was an afterthought to the game's design.

 

By the time NA players were even allowed onto servers JP players were doing endgame 24/7.  Endgame was a central focus of FFXI.

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  elocke

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/15/04
Posts: 4105

8/10/13 5:22:37 PM#37
Originally posted by ZenTaoYingYang
I wish I can stop caring and not post replies, because most of the people are mis-informed to an extent. there are mis-translation, mis-quotations and selective phrasing everywhere that makes the game different 180 degrees. I am sure once all settled people will be enjoying the game and will forget all the stupid stuff said here and there.

This is a good point.  Once the initial WoW/EQ/EQ2 mentality of Raid or Die! people realize the game isn't JUST about raiding or JUST endgame, either most of them will leave or they will adapt and in a few months from launch the game will have a nice solid community base, just like FFXI.  I can't wait.  Good thing is, I'm in a nice guild that isn't just focused on endgame but more on just playing the game so that from launch I will be among like minded folks.

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  k11keeper

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/15/04
Posts: 1034

"" "" "" ""

8/10/13 5:25:16 PM#38

To answer the OP question it's very simple. For anyone who has played an MMO and reached endgame and participated in endgame to the fullest endgame has and always will be the most challenging, fun, and rewarding content.

I like many others took a long time to get my first 75 in ffxi (a few months before CoP release and started at launch so about 8-9 months). That said by the time ToAU came out I had a few lvl 75s and had been doing plenty of sky, dynamis, Limbus, HNMS, and KS99s. Though I did make great friends my first go to 75 and did enjoy the journey the vast majority of my great memories are killing giant endgame bosses and completing brand new content as it was released. I did love CoP though because it brought challenging content to lower lvls and opened up opportunities for me to use jobs I didn't have to 75 for rewarding content that wasn't bland overdone BCNMs for gil. After about the 500th time of royal jelly it stops being challenging or fun....

So with that said I can imagine that this go around it will be similar. I will enjoy my journey as best I can on the way to lvl cap but the majority of my time, energy, and overall fun times will happen while participating in endgame.

  stringboi

Novice Member

Joined: 5/08/05
Posts: 395

8/10/13 5:30:46 PM#39
End game is going to be where you spend a good portion of your playing....why wouldnt people worry about end game material? 
  FoxyShoxzy

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/12
Posts: 119

8/10/13 5:31:06 PM#40
Originally posted by k11keeper

So with that said I can imagine that this go around it will be similar. I will enjoy my journey as best I can on the way to lvl cap but the majority of my time, energy, and overall fun times will happen while participating in endgame.

 

Sounds about right :)

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