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WildStar

WildStar 

General Discussion  » Telegraph system: Do you like it?

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124 posts found
  Xarko

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/10/11
Posts: 379

8/12/13 4:23:00 AM#41
Originally posted by Reehay
Originally posted by DMKano

I personally abhor the telegraph system - it reduces the game to a flat 2d surface where you avoid red shapes on the ground.

Immersion killer - I don't even watch the mobs or their animations, I just watch rudimentary shapes on the ground. They could replace mob graphics with floating cubes - the gameplay would still be the same as its all about dodging red shapes on the ground.

agree 10000%

Scott Hawkes from ZAM.com got a sneak preview of Wildstar and he said recently: "I found myself ignoring the target completely and just playing the telegraphs."

ZZZZZzzzzzz

fuck that. worst fucking trend in MMO's. fuck all these moronic telegraphs.

sick of this handholding bullshit. and even more than handholding.. it just spoils the entire game experience.

Thats exactly what I thought will happen when I saw first gameplay videos. Second thing Im afraid of is that for this type of combat to be challenging, they will have to throw telegraphs at you as fast as possible to make you active and under pressure, which will force you to only play telegraphs in order to survive.

MMOs these days are trying to make their combat systems more action and simplier so people dont have to just stare at their action bars during combat, but if staring at the ground and red circles is any better Im not sure.

  Realbigdeal

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/08
Posts: 1647

 
OP  8/13/13 1:02:04 AM#42
Originally posted by Xarko
Originally posted by Reehay
Originally posted by DMKano

I personally abhor the telegraph system - it reduces the game to a flat 2d surface where you avoid red shapes on the ground.

Immersion killer - I don't even watch the mobs or their animations, I just watch rudimentary shapes on the ground. They could replace mob graphics with floating cubes - the gameplay would still be the same as its all about dodging red shapes on the ground.

agree 10000%

Scott Hawkes from ZAM.com got a sneak preview of Wildstar and he said recently: "I found myself ignoring the target completely and just playing the telegraphs."

ZZZZZzzzzzz

fuck that. worst fucking trend in MMO's. fuck all these moronic telegraphs.

sick of this handholding bullshit. and even more than handholding.. it just spoils the entire game experience.

Thats exactly what I thought will happen when I saw first gameplay videos. Second thing Im afraid of is that for this type of combat to be challenging, they will have to throw telegraphs at you as fast as possible to make you active and under pressure, which will force you to only play telegraphs in order to survive.

MMOs these days are trying to make their combat systems more action and simplier so people dont have to just stare at their action bars during combat, but if staring at the ground and red circles is any better Im not sure.

Looking at your action bars vs looking at the telegraph for everything that your enemies do: i chose action bars since you can eventually get used to your action bars and it leaves room for more actions.

I used to play darkfall online and it's an action fps game with third person view for melee. We used to play with 20-50 action bars and we had to remap almost all the keys of our keyboards in order to be good since it was a focus pvp game; a sandbox with full loot...

Action mmo shouldnt mean less action bars and it shouldnt also mean more indication to help the slow minded players to help them dodge better before they even know what their enemies are doing.

I can tolerate 8 action bars max. I can also tolerate telegraph system when it's done the right way, but what they're doing in wild star has never been done before and i cannot call it inovative or next gen. I see it as something that is doomed to fail. 

C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif

  jesusjuice69

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/07/13
Posts: 293

8/13/13 5:42:25 AM#43
Originally posted by Xarko
Originally posted by Reehay
Originally posted by DMKano

I personally abhor the telegraph system - it reduces the game to a flat 2d surface where you avoid red shapes on the ground.

Immersion killer - I don't even watch the mobs or their animations, I just watch rudimentary shapes on the ground. They could replace mob graphics with floating cubes - the gameplay would still be the same as its all about dodging red shapes on the ground.

agree 10000%

Scott Hawkes from ZAM.com got a sneak preview of Wildstar and he said recently: "I found myself ignoring the target completely and just playing the telegraphs."

ZZZZZzzzzzz

fuck that. worst fucking trend in MMO's. fuck all these moronic telegraphs.

sick of this handholding bullshit. and even more than handholding.. it just spoils the entire game experience.

Thats exactly what I thought will happen when I saw first gameplay videos. Second thing Im afraid of is that for this type of combat to be challenging, they will have to throw telegraphs at you as fast as possible to make you active and under pressure, which will force you to only play telegraphs in order to survive.

MMOs these days are trying to make their combat systems more action and simplier so people dont have to just stare at their action bars during combat, but if staring at the ground and red circles is any better Im not sure.

If you just look at the ground, how will you know where the boss is to predict the next telegraph? 

How will you know if you are doing the your priority system without glancing at your bars?

 

Why would you stare at your action bar? 

I can't take anyone who doesn't know keybinding serious when they talk about difficulty.

  Xarko

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/10/11
Posts: 379

8/13/13 7:23:59 AM#44
Originally posted by jesusjuice69
Originally posted by Xarko
Originally posted by Reehay
Originally posted by DMKano

I personally abhor the telegraph system - it reduces the game to a flat 2d surface where you avoid red shapes on the ground.

Immersion killer - I don't even watch the mobs or their animations, I just watch rudimentary shapes on the ground. They could replace mob graphics with floating cubes - the gameplay would still be the same as its all about dodging red shapes on the ground.

agree 10000%

Scott Hawkes from ZAM.com got a sneak preview of Wildstar and he said recently: "I found myself ignoring the target completely and just playing the telegraphs."

ZZZZZzzzzzz

fuck that. worst fucking trend in MMO's. fuck all these moronic telegraphs.

sick of this handholding bullshit. and even more than handholding.. it just spoils the entire game experience.

Thats exactly what I thought will happen when I saw first gameplay videos. Second thing Im afraid of is that for this type of combat to be challenging, they will have to throw telegraphs at you as fast as possible to make you active and under pressure, which will force you to only play telegraphs in order to survive.

MMOs these days are trying to make their combat systems more action and simplier so people dont have to just stare at their action bars during combat, but if staring at the ground and red circles is any better Im not sure.

If you just look at the ground, how will you know where the boss is to predict the next telegraph? 

How will you know if you are doing the your priority system without glancing at your bars?

 

Why would you stare at your action bar? 

I can't take anyone who doesn't know keybinding serious when they talk about difficulty.

Do u even read ? I didnt mention myself when it comes to action bars. Im talking about what developers themselfs saying and are trying to do.

Also, stop making new accounts, everybody knows its you anyway.

  jesusjuice69

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/07/13
Posts: 293

8/13/13 7:44:17 AM#45
Originally posted by Xarko
Originally posted by jesusjuice69
Originally posted by Xarko
Originally posted by Reehay
Originally posted by DMKano

I personally abhor the telegraph system - it reduces the game to a flat 2d surface where you avoid red shapes on the ground.

Immersion killer - I don't even watch the mobs or their animations, I just watch rudimentary shapes on the ground. They could replace mob graphics with floating cubes - the gameplay would still be the same as its all about dodging red shapes on the ground.

agree 10000%

Scott Hawkes from ZAM.com got a sneak preview of Wildstar and he said recently: "I found myself ignoring the target completely and just playing the telegraphs."

ZZZZZzzzzzz

fuck that. worst fucking trend in MMO's. fuck all these moronic telegraphs.

sick of this handholding bullshit. and even more than handholding.. it just spoils the entire game experience.

Thats exactly what I thought will happen when I saw first gameplay videos. Second thing Im afraid of is that for this type of combat to be challenging, they will have to throw telegraphs at you as fast as possible to make you active and under pressure, which will force you to only play telegraphs in order to survive.

MMOs these days are trying to make their combat systems more action and simplier so people dont have to just stare at their action bars during combat, but if staring at the ground and red circles is any better Im not sure.

If you just look at the ground, how will you know where the boss is to predict the next telegraph? 

How will you know if you are doing the your priority system without glancing at your bars?

 

Why would you stare at your action bar? 

I can't take anyone who doesn't know keybinding serious when they talk about difficulty.

Do u even read ? I didnt mention myself when it comes to action bars. Im talking about what developers themselfs saying and are trying to do.

Also, stop making new accounts, everybody knows its you anyway.

That makes slightly more sense, but you still used that to form your flawed conclusion.

In a game like WoW you look at both the boss, the ground, and the bars.  WS is shifting slightly more emphasis from the bars to the ground.   To compensate for the lack of buttons, you are also forced to make use of movement tools to avoid things on the ground.

Gameplay is different, but Difficulty seems identical.

 

What new account?

  Dornin34

Novice Member

Joined: 8/13/13
Posts: 16

8/13/13 7:02:58 PM#46
I love how people think this "telegraphing" is something new. If you think this is new you haven't played an MMO in the past 15 years. It makes no difference if you are looking for lights on the ground or the boss to jump up and down and shake his fist or whatever. I mean really in WoW they put in those mods so that any average window-licker can play that game. What is really sad is that even when they did that people would STILL screw it up. It doesn't matter how much they try to dumb these games down there will always be someone around to lower the bar even further. 
  Realbigdeal

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/08
Posts: 1647

 
OP  8/14/13 1:27:26 AM#47
Originally posted by Dornin34
I love how people think this "telegraphing" is something new. If you think this is new you haven't played an MMO in the past 15 years. It makes no difference if you are looking for lights on the ground or the boss to jump up and down and shake his fist or whatever. I mean really in WoW they put in those mods so that any average window-licker can play that game. What is really sad is that even when they did that people would STILL screw it up. It doesn't matter how much they try to dumb these games down there will always be someone around to lower the bar even further. 

Wow: players Still screw up... of course, they're wow players. I don't expect them to be good. Not sure why you use these players as an example when both games will be nothing alike and they will both attract a different set of audiences. 

If you see some wow players screw up even with a telegraph system, why the hell would they want to play an action game like wild star? We don't see these bad players in our mind when we talk about the telegraph system of wildstar. 

C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif

  jesusjuice69

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/07/13
Posts: 293

8/14/13 8:48:33 AM#48
Originally posted by Realbigdeal
Originally posted by Dornin34
I love how people think this "telegraphing" is something new. If you think this is new you haven't played an MMO in the past 15 years. It makes no difference if you are looking for lights on the ground or the boss to jump up and down and shake his fist or whatever. I mean really in WoW they put in those mods so that any average window-licker can play that game. What is really sad is that even when they did that people would STILL screw it up. It doesn't matter how much they try to dumb these games down there will always be someone around to lower the bar even further. 

Wow: players Still screw up... of course, they're wow players. I don't expect them to be good. Not sure why you use these players as an example when both games will be nothing alike and they will both attract a different set of audiences. 

If you see some wow players screw up even with a telegraph system, why the hell would they want to play an action game like wild star? We don't see these bad players in our mind when we talk about the telegraph system of wildstar. 

WS will attract hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of past and current WoW players.

  Voqar

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/28/04
Posts: 477

8/19/13 11:50:40 AM#49

MMORPGs are what they are.  Although you fight most of the time, there's only so much they can do with combat.  You don't want combat that's so complicated that it makes the fact that you'll fight 10,000 mobs in 10,000 ultimately trivial battles just to level up into a tedious chore.

The real sophistication in MMORPG combat comes from grouping, not from solo combat, and derives from cooperation, blending abilities, teamwork, trust, etc.  This is a concept lost on many people who think MMORPGs are just about soloing and for whatever reason like to solo around a lot of other people (vs just playing single player games where similar combat is usually far more compelling).  Far too many MMORPGs these days are stupidly solo heavy and it just amplifies the simplicity of solo combat.

What's worse, tab targeting and standing next to the mob you're fighting beating on each other til one of you dies, maybe with an occasional interrupt or something to break up the flow.

Or having a more action-oriented system where you can dodge and have to actually land blows?  In such a system, either the dodgeable moves need to be so obvious and slow that joe average can notice when to dodge, or they need to mark the ground.  Marking the ground is the lazy and easy way, and is easier for joe average to handle, so there you go.

You just not going to get anything deeper than either system in an MMORPG because regardless of how much solo ez mode garbage devs pack into MMORPGs these days, the real game is the grouping and the grouping is where combat gets to be more complicated.

 

Premium MMORPGs do not feature built-in cheating via cash for gold pay 2 win. PLAY to win or don't play.

  nennafir

Novice Member

Joined: 10/13/05
Posts: 224

8/19/13 8:17:28 PM#50
User choice, even the illusion of user choice, is very important.  In fact, the importance of this cannot be underestimated.
  rojoArcueid

Elite Member

Joined: 8/13/09
Posts: 5388

"It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver". - Niccolo Machiavelli

8/19/13 8:24:49 PM#51
i dont like Telegraphs. I am not a dumb person, i dont need a telegraph to tell me i have to move away to avoid enemy attacks. I can find that out for my self. I like that GW2 lets you disable it. I havent seen any info about WildStar allowing you to disable it. Having mandatory telegraphs in game combat is an insult to my capabilities as a gamer.

My endgame begins with character creation and ends with a new mmorpg

  rojoArcueid

Elite Member

Joined: 8/13/09
Posts: 5388

"It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver". - Niccolo Machiavelli

8/19/13 8:30:28 PM#52
Originally posted by UWNVME
Originally posted by moosecatlol
Personally I find it disgusting that developers find us too inept to ever learn how to dodge without them.


 How can you dodge them though if you have no idea what the hit area looks like? I mean yeah, a boulder flying straight towards you is pretty obvious, but what about something like spikes rupturing from the ground? There needs be some sort of indicator.

that was the magical spark that kept combat interesting and fun in games that never used telepgraphs. You were fighting unpredictable fights every time. Now these companies consider us mentally disabled that they have to mark every step we take in order to stay alive. That kills every possibility of  combat being fun.

My endgame begins with character creation and ends with a new mmorpg

  avalon1000

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 724

8/19/13 8:37:28 PM#53
The only telegraph I like is the sound of an enemy"sniper  laser on a 3 second charge up (in Firefall) which means you better duck and quick (or you could end up being one shotted).
  moosecatlol

Novice Member

Joined: 8/25/10
Posts: 1172

8/19/13 8:44:12 PM#54
Telegraphs are insulting, that is all.
  Xiaoki

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/07/04
Posts: 2436

8/20/13 2:03:49 PM#55


Originally posted by rojo6934
i dont like Telegraphs. I am not a dumb person, i dont need a telegraph to tell me i have to move away to avoid enemy attacks. I can find that out for my self. I like that GW2 lets you disable it. I havent seen any info about WildStar allowing you to disable it. Having mandatory telegraphs in game combat is an insult to my capabilities as a gamer.

Chimpanzees display almost human-like intelligence because they will use simple tools like sticks and stones to help it obtain food.


The telegraph system is also a tool.


Chimpanzees would not be considered smart if they refused to use those tools even though they knew how to use them and instead starved to death.

  Fion

Novice Member

Joined: 7/25/03
Posts: 2356

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8/22/13 6:30:47 PM#56

I personally think their telegraph system is entirely the wrong way to go about things. Why does every single attack have one? Why do monsters display a big red square or circle when they hit you in melee? It's both immersion breaking and pointless. Instead they should go with a GW2 style 'soft targeting' system where you hit whomever you are facing. Shoot an arrow and it will hit any enemies directly in front of you. Have an enemy tab targeted, it'll hit them if they are in front of you or potentially someone else if that enemy is blocked. Save the big circles for AoE attacks.

For enemies I think they last to long and are at times unimportant. You have an enemy on your ass hitting you? Do you 'really' need a big red box to show they are hitting you? When it comes to AOE's I understand, but regular attacks it's just pointless and I hope it can be turned off. For AOE's I think they last too long. In GW2, especially at high lvl, an AoE 'red circle' only lasts for a split second. If you don't move your ass you get hit, and so it keeps the tension high. In dungeons like Flame & Frost finale, or Aether Blades there were bosses that were very tough if you didn't keep on the edge of your seat and watch those AOE circles. To slow and you're dead. If they lasted a full second like they seem to in Wildstar, that is just way to long, way to obvious and way to easy to avoid. I can understand if they last longer at lower lvls, you gotta teach the player how to play your game, but by mid lvl they should be fast and require timing and positioning to avoid damage.

  Realbigdeal

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/08
Posts: 1647

 
OP  8/23/13 11:48:29 AM#57
Originally posted by Xiaoki

 


Originally posted by rojo6934
i dont like Telegraphs. I am not a dumb person, i dont need a telegraph to tell me i have to move away to avoid enemy attacks. I can find that out for my self. I like that GW2 lets you disable it. I havent seen any info about WildStar allowing you to disable it. Having mandatory telegraphs in game combat is an insult to my capabilities as a gamer.


Chimpanzees display almost human-like intelligence because they will use simple tools like sticks and stones to help it obtain food.

 


The telegraph system is also a tool.


Chimpanzees would not be considered smart if they refused to use those tools even though they knew how to use them and instead starved to death.

There's no sush thing as a telegraph system to survive in the jungle and the telegraph system in game is not a tool, it's just part of the interface.

They used stones to crack up things that can't be eaten as a whole. They use sharpened sticks as a fishing pole for insects. A human tried to do the same thing with a stick and he failed because we don't have the same teeth. This is just to say that nothing would be as easy as the telegraph system in the jungle with no weapons or tools found outside of it.

Last thing, there's no other way for a chimpanzee to eat. Their tools and the way they use it don't make a situation easier to live with, it just adds more possibilities. With or without the telegraph system, you can achieve the same thing with adaptation and becoming better as a player instead of looking on the ground for the red lights that you usually see everyday when you cross the streets

C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif

  jesusjuice69

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/07/13
Posts: 293

8/23/13 1:29:17 PM#58
Originally posted by Realbigdeal
Originally posted by Xiaoki

 


Originally posted by rojo6934
i dont like Telegraphs. I am not a dumb person, i dont need a telegraph to tell me i have to move away to avoid enemy attacks. I can find that out for my self. I like that GW2 lets you disable it. I havent seen any info about WildStar allowing you to disable it. Having mandatory telegraphs in game combat is an insult to my capabilities as a gamer.


Chimpanzees display almost human-like intelligence because they will use simple tools like sticks and stones to help it obtain food.

 


The telegraph system is also a tool.


Chimpanzees would not be considered smart if they refused to use those tools even though they knew how to use them and instead starved to death.

There's no sush thing as a telegraph system to survive in the jungle and the telegraph system in game is not a tool, it's just part of the interface.

They used stones to crack up things that can't be eaten as a whole. They use sharpened sticks as a fishing pole for insects. A human tried to do the same thing with a stick and he failed because we don't have the same teeth. This is just to say that nothing would be as easy as the telegraph system in the jungle with no weapons or tools found outside of it.

Last thing, there's no other way for a chimpanzee to eat. Their tools and the way they use it don't make a situation easier to live with, it just adds more possibilities. With or without the telegraph system, you can achieve the same thing with adaptation and becoming better as a player instead of looking on the ground for the red lights that you usually see everyday when you cross the streets

Your understanding of analogies, definitions, and biology are poor.   Your post is making my head hurt.

Why are you talking about the jungle in response to telegraphs?

The interface itself is a tool.  The telegraph system is a sub category of the interface, thus a tool.   Anything that you would consider technology or a result of technology is a tool.  Which is pretty much anything that isn't part of the natural world.

 

The whole combat system is built around telegraphs, so you can't possibly fight without them. 

 

Wildstar

This is a mid level dungeon, and they increase in difficulty as the game progresses. 

NOTE:  This is a walkthrough in Dev mode.

http://youtu.be/ko4cX0majzg?t=17m26s

 

Watch that, then tell me you could do those encounters without telegraphs, and that telegraphs are for dumb people.

  Tinybina

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/28/04
Posts: 2115

8/24/13 9:22:35 PM#59

 

Yeah folks this telegraph stuff will make this game easy mode!

 

I mean look at this video below of a instance in WILDSTAR, WAY TO FREAKING EASY and BORING!  ZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

http://uk.gamespot.com/gamescom/wildstar-raiding-rampage-6413630/

 

Screw this borefest or a game lemme go log on to FFX8V4 and spool up my 10 second cast spells or wait until I can play Everquest Next and face level 10 mobs with the intelligence of Hal 9000...

 

 

Edit:  /Sarcasm off  (for some reason I felt like I should add this)

 

 

------------------------------
You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith

  droopy

Novice Member

Joined: 2/07/06
Posts: 16

8/24/13 9:23:10 PM#60

Well i've been back and forth on this too but i do not think it being to easy really is an issue with Wildstar as the devs themself said they will cater to the 1% (stupid phrase) anyways if you played WoW back in Vanilla/TBC you know what that means where if lucky there was 2 guilds from each side that could even clear the entire raid on the whole server while most struggle with the first boss for a couple of weeks. 

Allso with Telegraphs it doesn't mean that the Ogre will throw his boulder in the same spot for the duration of the fight with a big fat marker to indicate it even further, most of the videos i've seen and that is public are from the low to early mid level where it's still quite easy to dodge telegraphs unless you're really bad at the game and it will ramp up as you level, i guess faster enemy casts and more random patterns and more devastating blows

Allso what jesusjuice69 said.

No what i'm concerned about:

- Will they use this waaaay to much as in all the monsters ingame? 

- That my focus will mostly be on the ground instead of the monster/player, i've always been using keybinds so i rarely look down, except for some CD's/health etc if i need to.

- And most important, how will players feel after months of playing the game and still need to dodge all the mobs in the game? i love to farm while doing world PvP for an example but i can see it can become VERY annoying with the constant need to dodge mobs 24/7 for a year. Sometimes it's relaxing to kick back with a beer and listen to some chill music while farming some gold and that possible world drop or whatever.

Need to see more or hopefully try it out myself before i can tell how i like it, but that's atleast my thoughts and concerns.

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