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WildStar

WildStar 

General Discussion  » Telegraph system: Do you like it?

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124 posts found
  tyrlaan

Novice Member

Joined: 9/18/07
Posts: 18

8/06/13 11:04:49 PM#21
Originally posted by Demalis

I don't know I haven't played it yet, won't need mods I guess (DBM). Sometimes when I read some of the posts I am reminded of that old guy who says things like " When I used the phone to call someone I had to use a turn dial, humph, those were tough days."

Exactly this.

  NagelRitter

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/18/13
Posts: 613

8/07/13 11:52:33 AM#22

I don't care for them, but a lot of it comes because MMO's have really poor indication of anything happening.

I mean, your average dungeon is a complete mess with stuff flying in every direction. It can be hard to figure out what is fire and what is not and the game often mushes those together.

Favorite MMO: Vanilla WoW
Currently playing: GW2, EVE
Excited for: Wildstar, maybe?

  nilden

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/26/05
Posts: 998

8/07/13 12:13:56 PM#23
Originally posted by DMKano

I personally abhor the telegraph system - it reduces the game to a flat 2d surface where you avoid red shapes on the ground.

Immersion killer - I don't even watch the mobs or their animations, I just watch rudimentary shapes on the ground. They could replace mob graphics with floating cubes - the gameplay would still be the same as its all about dodging red shapes on the ground.

I agree and would argue the best way to do a telegraph system is with the mob animations. Example dragon is going to breath fire, before that it does an inhale animation. I'm sure given minor amounts of attention and a reasonable responce time aloud people will avoid obvious dangers. Fire/acid/spikes on the ground is something your going to avoid it doesn't need to be avoid the red shapes.

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  CrazKanuk

Elite Member

Joined: 10/06/09
Posts: 1611

8/07/13 12:29:38 PM#24

I don't have a problem with telegraphs. I think that telegraphs give you an opportunity to do unique things, like randomizing attack areas. Think about any game without telegraphs. Those who actually master the content need to learn the triggers and then react accordingly, but the attacks themselves don't change. What telegraphs allow devs to do is create dynamic attacks which may not be the same each time. If you really think about it, attacks are telegraphed as it is, whether visually or otherwise. I think that with visual telegraphs you can actually make it more difficult. 

 

Based on what I've read of Wildstar to date, they are seeking to create extremely difficult content, so I don't see them implementing a telegraph system in such a way that the content is extremely easy to play through. 

 

So I guess my real question is, did you play it? Or did you even have an opportunity to play it? If so, what was the difficulty ramp like? or was it entirely non-existent? Or are you just going off whatever Youtube videos you've seen?

Crazkanuk

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  jesusjuice69

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/07/13
Posts: 293

8/08/13 12:47:37 AM#25

Telegraphs have been in MMOs for a long time now!

This system is much better than DBM + Vague telegraph system that exists in WoW.

 

Originally posted by nilden
Originally posted by DMKano

I personally abhor the telegraph system - it reduces the game to a flat 2d surface where you avoid red shapes on the ground.

Immersion killer - I don't even watch the mobs or their animations, I just watch rudimentary shapes on the ground. They could replace mob graphics with floating cubes - the gameplay would still be the same as its all about dodging red shapes on the ground.

I agree and would argue the best way to do a telegraph system is with the mob animations. Example dragon is going to breath fire, before that it does an inhale animation. I'm sure given minor amounts of attention and a reasonable responce time aloud people will avoid obvious dangers. Fire/acid/spikes on the ground is something your going to avoid it doesn't need to be avoid the red shapes.

Sorry, but that doesn't work.

It just isn't realistic to give hundreds or thousands of mobs numerous animation tells, and expect the players to memorize them all.  Tell me a game that does that, and maybe we can talk!

  Realbigdeal

Novice Member

Joined: 9/28/08
Posts: 1652

 
OP  8/08/13 1:14:57 AM#26
Originally posted by jesusjuice69

Telegraphs have been in MMOs for a long time now!

This system is much better than DBM + Vague telegraph system that exists in WoW.

 

Originally posted by nilden
Originally posted by DMKano

I personally abhor the telegraph system - it reduces the game to a flat 2d surface where you avoid red shapes on the ground.

Immersion killer - I don't even watch the mobs or their animations, I just watch rudimentary shapes on the ground. They could replace mob graphics with floating cubes - the gameplay would still be the same as its all about dodging red shapes on the ground.

I agree and would argue the best way to do a telegraph system is with the mob animations. Example dragon is going to breath fire, before that it does an inhale animation. I'm sure given minor amounts of attention and a reasonable responce time aloud people will avoid obvious dangers. Fire/acid/spikes on the ground is something your going to avoid it doesn't need to be avoid the red shapes.

Sorry, but that doesn't work.

It just isn't realistic to give hundreds or thousands of mobs numerous animation tells, and expect the players to memorize them all.  Tell me a game that does that, and maybe we can talk!

I never played wow for too long to notice a telegraph. I played it for 3 months when the level cap was 70.

If by vague, you mean that the spell or ability appear instantly: right when the telegraph appear, then i think it's fine that way. I just searched youtube, guildwars 2 dungeon. There's indeed a telegraph system, but once the telegraph appears, the ability drops instantly and most of the time, it's a debuff, a dot type or support and from players.

Basically, the telegraph system of guild wars 2 is made for the same type of telegraph that a player use during pvp meaning that you still have to be punished in order to know what to watch for next time to try to fight this monster or this player and that's how it should be for every games with a telegraph. 

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  OldManFunk

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/29/06
Posts: 900

8/08/13 1:22:06 AM#27

I'm sorry but this is ridiculous and self-serving.

 

I've raided since raiding and telegraphing is a much better system than staring at text boxes, listening to vent cue's, or memorizing patterns from youtube videos.

 

Anyone who has raided in a MMO can tell you that the real challenge comes from trying to fulfill your role while doing the dance, and that the particular dances are the only things that differentiate one raid from the next.

 

Telegraphing is fine.

 

Teletubbies are not.

  Realbigdeal

Novice Member

Joined: 9/28/08
Posts: 1652

 
OP  8/08/13 8:16:57 PM#28
Originally posted by OldManFunk

I'm sorry but this is ridiculous and self-serving.

 

I've raided since raiding and telegraphing is a much better system than staring at text boxes, listening to vent cue's, or memorizing patterns from youtube videos.

 

Anyone who has raided in a MMO can tell you that the real challenge comes from trying to fulfill your role while doing the dance, and that the particular dances are the only things that differentiate one raid from the next.

 

Telegraphing is fine.

 

Teletubbies are not.

why telegraph and text box should be placed in the same category? I think you're the only one who is setting that up that way.

It's target, partly target based like guildwars 2 or full on action with no targets at all. Does not mean that a telegraph system should always be used as a filler. I always use darksouls as an example coz it's the hardest game to date and it sold 2.5millions copies. They got like 0 telegraph and the first few time, it's hard to see what each enemies will do, but the difference, i'm sure you will have a lot more hp in wild star to survive multiple mistakes.

Now, i never said that i hated telegraph and you seem to assume that. I hate how wildstar is doing it since it's more like a warning for everything that an enemy will do during the initial animation and the warning  takes too long meaning that you have to be a full retard to stay in to get hit. 

One more thing, we don't only raid in mmorpg's. I played wow for 3 months and i never did a raid and i had enough fun, but i left. I don't take raiding as a point to buy a game and i'm sure many don't either. Still, would it not be annoying to see all these red lights in a dungeon or in a raid party? That's what on my mind always when i think about wildstar.

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  Draemos

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/20/10
Posts: 1478

8/08/13 8:23:10 PM#29
Originally posted by Realbigdeal

My little cousin is trying to get me in wildstar. I was never interested in this game before. While i tried to like it for him, i could not stop making fun of this game while he took it as an offense. I made fun of one feature: The telegraph system and how overused it is.

I feel like you can dodge everything. I'm from the megaman X era and i'm one of these players that have to learn to die before dodging everything. From watching one pve video of wild star, i don't see myself dying unless i get tired of trying to kill an high level enemy when i'm level 10-20 because it might take an hour. 

I just beat dark souls and i'm waiting for the next one. That's one game i would not play if they had a telegraph system.

My question is: Will there be a server to completely remove these silly red lights that you see everyday at each intersections? 

 

I'm not a big fan of them myself, I play Dark Souls and Monster Hunter; and I don't dig the whole painted red circles nonsense. but I can see how it can be useful as a MMO tool

At the same time we don't really know how many of the tells are painted.  Tera has a lot of red painted tells, but it also has a ton of tells that are much more subtle.  So I'll reserve judgement.  As long as they don't overuuse them for everything, I think it's fine.

Having said that, MMO players are generally terrible and they'd rage quit so fast if they had to actually watch animations and learn attack patterns...

  Draemos

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/20/10
Posts: 1478

8/08/13 8:26:09 PM#30
Originally posted by OldManFunk

I'm sorry but this is ridiculous and self-serving.

 

I've raided since raiding and telegraphing is a much better system than staring at text boxes, listening to vent cue's, or memorizing patterns from youtube videos.

 

Anyone who has raided in a MMO can tell you that the real challenge comes from trying to fulfill your role while doing the dance, and that the particular dances are the only things that differentiate one raid from the next.

 

Telegraphing is fine.

 

Teletubbies are not.

The real challenge of raiding in an MMO is gathering up a party of people of whom at least 50% are not mentally incompetent goobers who are watching porn or reality TV or e-flirting via /tells with the token girl-gamer in the raid while spamming 1,2,3

  Draemos

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/20/10
Posts: 1478

8/08/13 8:30:50 PM#31
Originally posted by jesusjuice69

Telegraphs have been in MMOs for a long time now!

This system is much better than DBM + Vague telegraph system that exists in WoW.

 

Originally posted by nilden
Originally posted by DMKano

I personally abhor the telegraph system - it reduces the game to a flat 2d surface where you avoid red shapes on the ground.

Immersion killer - I don't even watch the mobs or their animations, I just watch rudimentary shapes on the ground. They could replace mob graphics with floating cubes - the gameplay would still be the same as its all about dodging red shapes on the ground.

I agree and would argue the best way to do a telegraph system is with the mob animations. Example dragon is going to breath fire, before that it does an inhale animation. I'm sure given minor amounts of attention and a reasonable responce time aloud people will avoid obvious dangers. Fire/acid/spikes on the ground is something your going to avoid it doesn't need to be avoid the red shapes.

Sorry, but that doesn't work.

It just isn't realistic to give hundreds or thousands of mobs numerous animation tells, and expect the players to memorize them all.  Tell me a game that does that, and maybe we can talk!

Monster hunter.  And I don't know of an MMO that has more than a few dozen mob types; they usually have 2-3 dozen basetypes and the rest are retextured with slightly different abilities/qualities but the same base AI.

  Draemos

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/20/10
Posts: 1478

8/08/13 8:35:23 PM#32
Originally posted by DMKano

I personally abhor the telegraph system - it reduces the game to a flat 2d surface where you avoid red shapes on the ground.

Immersion killer - I don't even watch the mobs or their animations, I just watch rudimentary shapes on the ground. They could replace mob graphics with floating cubes - the gameplay would still be the same as its all about dodging red shapes on the ground.

That will get you absolutely demolished in a game like Tera, where you need to take audio and visual clues from several different sources to know what the enemy is going to do next.

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 6131

8/08/13 8:36:59 PM#33

I usually like it when game telegraph, especially in the case of Neverwinter and Tera.  You have limited quick mobility in those games, you need to use it efficiently or you can get stuck in a sea of telegraphs with no place to go.  It's like seeing a critical hit coming in slow motion.

Maybe someday the mechanic can be improved, but right now with latency and performance challenges, telegraphs are pretty necessary in an action mmo.  With that in mind you usually only have a second to move out of the attack or it will snag you.

I'm all for a more organic feeling feedback system though, but I'm not unhappy with telegraphs.

Curse you AquaScum!

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 6131

8/08/13 8:42:37 PM#34
Originally posted by Draemos
Originally posted by DMKano

I personally abhor the telegraph system - it reduces the game to a flat 2d surface where you avoid red shapes on the ground.

Immersion killer - I don't even watch the mobs or their animations, I just watch rudimentary shapes on the ground. They could replace mob graphics with floating cubes - the gameplay would still be the same as its all about dodging red shapes on the ground.

That will get you absolutely demolished in a game like Tera, where you need to take audio and visual clues from several different sources to know what the enemy is going to do next.

This is very true.  Not every attack is telegraphed, usually only the most powerful or those with an effect like a debuff, snare, daze/stun, knockback, knockdown, skill disable, etc.  Many strong damage attack don't telegraph and I typically want to avoid those.  The challenge for me, in action combat, is how many mobs can I take and how much damage can I put out, all while avoiding the most damage.  That means all damage, not just telegraphs.

If I can get good at not taking damage that is less self-healing/mitigation skills that I need to account for which leaves me more room for damage and buff/debuff skills.

 

Curse you AquaScum!

  Realbigdeal

Novice Member

Joined: 9/28/08
Posts: 1652

 
OP  8/09/13 3:40:29 AM#35
Originally posted by Draemos
Originally posted by Realbigdeal

My little cousin is trying to get me in wildstar. I was never interested in this game before. While i tried to like it for him, i could not stop making fun of this game while he took it as an offense. I made fun of one feature: The telegraph system and how overused it is.

I feel like you can dodge everything. I'm from the megaman X era and i'm one of these players that have to learn to die before dodging everything. From watching one pve video of wild star, i don't see myself dying unless i get tired of trying to kill an high level enemy when i'm level 10-20 because it might take an hour. 

I just beat dark souls and i'm waiting for the next one. That's one game i would not play if they had a telegraph system.

My question is: Will there be a server to completely remove these silly red lights that you see everyday at each intersections? 

 

 

Having said that, MMO players are generally terrible and they'd rage quit so fast if they had to actually watch animations and learn attack patterns...

Have you heard of darkfall UW? That's the most hardcore pvp mmo on the market. While it's not a success like wow, the game still cost 15$ a month and with a very healthy population. You can find players everywhere and the world is the biggest i ever seen for an mmo. It is made by an indie team and initially darkfall sold more than 100k units years ago and it has sold even more today, but i can't find a number. I play that game and the community is still kicking. 

This is just to say that a lot of players are still looking for none target based hardcore sandbox mmo's. With wow that is still good, guild wars and tera online, you have to be original or back to what used to work like ultima online in order to pick up the interest of those who are looking for something new or players looking for the old things that used to work and there's a lot of peeps waiting.

I could go on with EvE online; an other hardcore game with a great success, but space/mother ships are not my style.

We can always wait and see how the telegraph system of wildstar is really gonna be, but i think i have every bit of info that i need to judge the game. I looked at a lot of gameplay videos, i read a lot about it and the telegraph still look bad. It's there for everything and during the animation. I thought higher level enemies would pull these off faster, but i don't think so since even bosses are easy except for when they use their normal attack since there's no telegraph for that.

Last thing, if a game goes F2P unless it;s a moba or a game that was developed with the idea of making a f2p game, it's a failure. Wild star publishers still don't know what payment model they are gonna use. 

C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif

  jesusjuice69

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/07/13
Posts: 293

8/11/13 1:29:09 AM#36
Originally posted by Draemos
Originally posted by OldManFunk

I'm sorry but this is ridiculous and self-serving.

 

I've raided since raiding and telegraphing is a much better system than staring at text boxes, listening to vent cue's, or memorizing patterns from youtube videos.

 

Anyone who has raided in a MMO can tell you that the real challenge comes from trying to fulfill your role while doing the dance, and that the particular dances are the only things that differentiate one raid from the next.

 

Telegraphing is fine.

 

Teletubbies are not.

The real challenge of raiding in an MMO is gathering up a party of people of whom at least 50% are not mentally incompetent goobers who are watching porn or reality TV or e-flirting via /tells with the token girl-gamer in the raid while spamming 1,2,3

Yah, you keep telling yourself that.

  Reehay

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/15/05
Posts: 178

8/11/13 1:38:50 AM#37
Originally posted by DMKano

I personally abhor the telegraph system - it reduces the game to a flat 2d surface where you avoid red shapes on the ground.

Immersion killer - I don't even watch the mobs or their animations, I just watch rudimentary shapes on the ground. They could replace mob graphics with floating cubes - the gameplay would still be the same as its all about dodging red shapes on the ground.

agree 10000%

Scott Hawkes from ZAM.com got a sneak preview of Wildstar and he said recently: "I found myself ignoring the target completely and just playing the telegraphs."

ZZZZZzzzzzz

fuck that. worst fucking trend in MMO's. fuck all these moronic telegraphs.

sick of this handholding bullshit. and even more than handholding.. it just spoils the entire game experience.

  jesusjuice69

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/07/13
Posts: 293

8/11/13 3:29:50 AM#38
Originally posted by Reehay
Originally posted by DMKano

I personally abhor the telegraph system - it reduces the game to a flat 2d surface where you avoid red shapes on the ground.

Immersion killer - I don't even watch the mobs or their animations, I just watch rudimentary shapes on the ground. They could replace mob graphics with floating cubes - the gameplay would still be the same as its all about dodging red shapes on the ground.

agree 10000%

Scott Hawkes from ZAM.com got a sneak preview of Wildstar and he said recently: "I found myself ignoring the target completely and just playing the telegraphs."

ZZZZZzzzzzz

fuck that. worst fucking trend in MMO's. fuck all these moronic telegraphs.

sick of this handholding bullshit. and even more than handholding.. it just spoils the entire game experience.

You don't know WTF you are talking about kid.  Handholding my ass.  Deadly boss mods is hand holding.   This is for the hardcore.

  User Deleted
8/11/13 5:10:39 AM#39

well what can i say at the beginning its all new and shiny but imo it gets annoying and silly quite fast

telegraphs are just a lazy way to compensate for poor mob attack animations or the yare for people who dont know how to watch the opponents animations and figure from them what attack is coming

well its a good idea in its core but something is missing

  jesusjuice69

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/07/13
Posts: 293

8/11/13 6:53:44 AM#40
Originally posted by OfficialFlow

well what can i say at the beginning its all new and shiny but imo it gets annoying and silly quite fast

telegraphs are just a lazy way to compensate for poor mob attack animations or the yare for people who dont know how to watch the opponents animations and figure from them what attack is coming

well its a good idea in its core but something is missing

Yah, aiming, rolling, and jumping.  All of which is in the game.

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