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General Discussion  » Changing factions

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44 posts found
  deviliscious

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/09/07
Posts: 6929

"Adjusts ponytails and pulls the lollipop out of my mouth"

 
OP  7/31/13 6:10:40 AM#21
Originally posted by Iselin

And switching factions fixes this how exactly? The guild of uber PVPers splits up to fight against itself?

And why are all the uber guilds on the same side to begin with? You're saying an even population won't be likely to produce an even representation of good and bad PVPers in each faction?

If you've been PVPing for 10 years as you say, and as have I, then I wouldn't need to tell you that there's something different going on today. MMOers don't pay $150 bucks a month for 10 subs so they can multibox and rule the world. That would be the hyper-competitive esport gamer slumming from COD. I know the type very well. I doubt they'd last 30 days in ESO with no instant gratification scenario PVP and scoreboards...which is the type of PVP they love.

In the old days of Dark Age of Camelot, there would be one or two guys multiboxing and we all thought they were weird. And FPSers didn't MMO back then... they do now.

You're right, this game doesn't cater to the uber PVP crowd. Don't they have DFUW for the ones who have the balls, or WOW for the scenario junkies?

The best thinking man's PVP game ever was DAoC. Lot's of room for strategy and tactics there when planning and executing relic keep assaults or defenses. Their only problems was that they didn't merge servers quickly enough and once Mark Jacobs realized he couldn't beat WOW, he tried to join them with all kinds of weird changes. The original, for the 1st couple of years, just worked... and oh yeah, they had 3 locked factions.

 

YES. It actually does.  You see Good PvPers WANT challenging pvp. It will be the randoms that will rush into the winning side, and  when one side gets too overpowered, they hop to the other side for challenging gameplay.  They can choose to be the underdogs for a better fight. If you remove their ability to do so easily, all it does is keep having more people pour into the winning team instead. One of my fav things to do was to pit me and a few other guildies against the ENTIRE guild to show 'em how it's done. LOL I prefer that, but you aren't going to want to move to the other realm permanently, or have to change race to do so, that is just stupid.

 Idk what you are wowing about, just take a look at EVE to get a better understanding of how guilds work in reality.

 The Wowers are going to be the first ones to run over to the winning side and make a mess of it. LOL

Everyone has been leaving that game.. guess where they will turn up next? AHHH! The horror!

  PAL-18

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/14/13
Posts: 740

7/31/13 6:13:11 AM#22

No matter how it is now but in the end they will allow it.

Just look what happened to PS2.

Planet earth triples its water mass and islands will sink   when those peeps(WTJs) starts crying why they *need* faction change.I.E winning team joiner (WTJ)

Just wait.

So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.
By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
**On the radar:http://cyberpunk.net/**

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2805

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

7/31/13 6:15:58 AM#23
Originally posted by deviliscious
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by deviliscious
Originally posted by keithian
Originally posted by DavisFlight
If the answer is yes, this game is even more fucked than it seems already.

That post helped a lot. I prefer a game where people can switch factions on the fly to completely destroy the balance of the game. That way I can always ensure I am on the winning side. Genius.

You do realize that the guilds that offset the balance of the game will be able to do that already don't you? Hell on one game I played every guild member had  different accounts they payed subs on. David payed over $150 a month in sub fees  a month to ONE game.  People play on multiple computers at the same time. That is the reality of this. I have 8 Pc's sitting here at my disposal if I really wanted to..

 

As for ruining the balance of the game, that is pretty much guaranteed with race locked factions. People will  get tired of losing and permanently switch to the winning realm and the other two realms will be evacuated for PvP. That cripples the PvP for everyone when you have one side  overpowered. It always happens regardless. People will either switch or quit the game all together. Been there done that, why would you want to see it die that way again?

 

They are going to switch sides anyhow. If you make it easier for them to do so, the balance actually gets corrected FASTER, instead of staying unbalanced forever.

 DAoC says otherwise

How is that working for them these days?

Would of worked extremely well if they hadn't done a 180 on game design and try and turn the game into a PvE game.  Same as any game that starts out with a general market they try to reach then alienate them with a change in course.  It being a 3 faction RvR game wasn't what drove them to mediocrity.  Its the same correlation as UO's Trammel, SWG's NGE etc. etc. etc.

 

If WoW was to change their model from a raid game in the next expansion and not implemented any new raids, the game would die as well.  SO it isn't the game that's the problem its the change that caused DAoC to fail.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3910

7/31/13 6:18:53 AM#24
Originally posted by deviliscious
You know warhammer tried to resuscitate DAoC and failed. GW2 tried to perform a Frankenstein..  the bottom line is, it isn't working for DAoC anymore,  Guild Loyalty> Game loyalty every time. Guilds have grown from their infancy and become large  massive forces to be reckoned with moving from game to game. Failing to understand that has changed from the past  is shortsighted and not well thought through.  This is the reality of gaming in 2013. When one side gets too many guilds, it is going to win and keep winning. So what  are they implementing to allow guilds to balance it out when too many of them choose the same side? Can they just go to the underdog realm and solve it? ....

 

WAR screwed it up by having multiple PVP "lakes", 2-sided PVP and a whole shit pile of scenarios. RVR style PVP happened by accident when people weren't just racking up the points keep flipping or leaving because their scenario was ready.

GW2 tried and got some of it right, But ultimately, just WTF is server allegiance? If they had Asurans fighting against the humans and the leafy elf replacement in that kind of 3 sided PVP (or hell, make it 4-sided and throw in the Gar) that would have made a much more interesting game. Plus there's way too much server flipping there because it's easy to do and go to the winning server. A big part of the problem there is what you're saying is the cure.

 

  deviliscious

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/09/07
Posts: 6929

"Adjusts ponytails and pulls the lollipop out of my mouth"

 
OP  7/31/13 6:22:54 AM#25
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by deviliscious
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by deviliscious
Originally posted by keithian
Originally posted by DavisFlight
If the answer is yes, this game is even more fucked than it seems already.

That post helped a lot. I prefer a game where people can switch factions on the fly to completely destroy the balance of the game. That way I can always ensure I am on the winning side. Genius.

You do realize that the guilds that offset the balance of the game will be able to do that already don't you? Hell on one game I played every guild member had  different accounts they payed subs on. David payed over $150 a month in sub fees  a month to ONE game.  People play on multiple computers at the same time. That is the reality of this. I have 8 Pc's sitting here at my disposal if I really wanted to..

 

As for ruining the balance of the game, that is pretty much guaranteed with race locked factions. People will  get tired of losing and permanently switch to the winning realm and the other two realms will be evacuated for PvP. That cripples the PvP for everyone when you have one side  overpowered. It always happens regardless. People will either switch or quit the game all together. Been there done that, why would you want to see it die that way again?

 

They are going to switch sides anyhow. If you make it easier for them to do so, the balance actually gets corrected FASTER, instead of staying unbalanced forever.

 DAoC says otherwise

How is that working for them these days?

Would of worked extremely well if they hadn't done a 180 on game design and try and turn the game into a PvE game.  Same as any game that starts out with a general market they try to reach then alienate them with a change in course.  It being a 3 faction RvR game wasn't what drove them to mediocrity.  Its the same correlation as UO's Trammel, SWG's NGE etc. etc. etc.

 

If WoW was to change their model from a raid game in the next expansion and not implemented any new raids, the game would die as well.  SO it isn't the game that's the problem its the change that caused DAoC to fail.

Yes but if you created  DAoC now, it would be all screwed up as well because the player demographics are very different now. Games have to be equipped to deal with the mega guilds rather than just soloers/ small guilds or balance gets crushed quick.

  deviliscious

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/09/07
Posts: 6929

"Adjusts ponytails and pulls the lollipop out of my mouth"

 
OP  7/31/13 6:25:12 AM#26
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by deviliscious
You know warhammer tried to resuscitate DAoC and failed. GW2 tried to perform a Frankenstein..  the bottom line is, it isn't working for DAoC anymore,  Guild Loyalty> Game loyalty every time. Guilds have grown from their infancy and become large  massive forces to be reckoned with moving from game to game. Failing to understand that has changed from the past  is shortsighted and not well thought through.  This is the reality of gaming in 2013. When one side gets too many guilds, it is going to win and keep winning. So what  are they implementing to allow guilds to balance it out when too many of them choose the same side? Can they just go to the underdog realm and solve it? ....

 

WAR screwed it up by having multiple PVP "lakes", 2-sided PVP and a whole shit pile of scenarios. RVR style PVP happened by accident when people weren't just racking up the points keep flipping or leaving because their scenario was ready.

GW2 tried and got some of it right, But ultimately, just WTF is server allegiance? If they had Asurans fighting against the humans and the leafy elf replacement in that kind of 3 sided PVP (or hell, make it 4-sided and throw in the Gar) that would have made a much more interesting game. Plus there's way too much server flipping there because it's easy to do and go to the winning server. A big part of the problem there is what you're saying is the cure.

 

How is making the overpowered servers stay over powered rather than allow guilds to go underdog solving that issue? That doesn't solve it, it just makes it stay broken. They will just go to the winning  server and stay there... Who's going to hop to the losing server to fix it? Oh yea.. no one.

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2805

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

7/31/13 6:27:55 AM#27
Originally posted by deviliscious
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by deviliscious
Originally posted by Iselin

 

 

All this does is:

1) Forces players to spend more time waiting in game than actually playing it.

2) Prevents players from playing the game with the people they wish to play the game with.

3) guarantees overpowered teams stay over powered longer.

  1. How does it force people to wait when everyone in your guild will be assigned to the same campaign?  I can't imagine your guild fielding a 2000 zerg every single hour of the day.
  2. If your in the same guild you'll be able to play in the Alliance versus Alliance area at any time, there shouldn't be any queue's since the area is so large and population limit is so large.
  3. Well then, you best be coordinating with that 3rd faction to create a temporary truce to tackle an existing enemy.  But chances are you're the type of player who instead of working out a solution will run off and gank the nearest non winning faction member you want to get your PvP fix. 
It worked in DAoC and it'll work in TESO if the players allow it work.  I played Albion Guinevere for close to 3 years and the entire time we were the most populated realm but I assure you, the Hibs and Mids kept us busy every single day.  Often times kept us choked in within our own Milegate because they worked together to overcome a greater threat.  If Hib or Mid had gone their own way we would of annihilated both sides and kept both realms choked up at their own MG.  And the game would of become extremely unfun but because the 2 weaker realms worked together as the game was designed to be, our overwhelming numbers were kept in check night in and night out.

1) Who are they going to play when everyone moved to the winning realm? How long are they going to have to wait to play if one realm becomes more populated for pvp than the others?

2) Say your guild is Ebonheart, can you , as a Breton fight alongside them as a Breton?  Oh wait...

3) What are you going o0n about? If you want to know the type of PvP I am you can read my post in developers corner here rather than make ridiculous assumptions:  http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/159765/the-best-pvp-combat-a-girls-perspective.html

You know warhammer tried to resuscitate DAoC and failed. GW2 tried to perform a Frankenstein..  the bottom line is, it isn't working for DAoC anymore,  Guild Loyalty> Game loyalty every time. Guilds have grown from their infancy and become large  massive forces to be reckoned with moving from game to game. Failing to understand that has changed from the past  is shortsighted and not well thought through.  This is the reality of gaming in 2013. When one side gets too many guilds, it is going to win and keep winning. So what  are they implementing to allow guilds to balance it out when too many of them choose the same side? Can they just go to the underdog realm and solve it? ....

 

 

  1. You might be able to change campaigns but you wont be able to change factions.  And then you're going to lose all your realm points for switching campaigns.  And then your guaranteed to get into a winning side.
  2. I think this is a stupid decision to allow cross faction guilding but this is more for the PvE crowd and I seriously doubt many PvP guilds will allow cross faction guild mates.
  3. Warhammer failed because it had 2 factions and the RvR Lakes were extremely small which made zerging the defacto best way to play.  GW2's WvW areas were small as well, and not only that they were separated across 4 maps and it was extremely queue heavy.  Plus none of those games had things like relics, realm ranks, or Darkness Falls.  In short those 2 games PvP mode failed not because they went an RvR route but because they strayed too far from the RvR route.
If one side gets the advantage which they most likely will, then if you allow them to continue to dominate then you have no one but your self to blame and should play something more to your liken. In DAoC as I've said, the underdogs banded together day in and day out to even the odds, and even break the odds on many days.  The tools are available for you to use, if you choose not to then you deserve to lose repeatedly.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3910

7/31/13 6:29:37 AM#28
Originally posted by deviliscious
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by deviliscious
You know warhammer tried to resuscitate DAoC and failed. GW2 tried to perform a Frankenstein..  the bottom line is, it isn't working for DAoC anymore,  Guild Loyalty> Game loyalty every time. Guilds have grown from their infancy and become large  massive forces to be reckoned with moving from game to game. Failing to understand that has changed from the past  is shortsighted and not well thought through.  This is the reality of gaming in 2013. When one side gets too many guilds, it is going to win and keep winning. So what  are they implementing to allow guilds to balance it out when too many of them choose the same side? Can they just go to the underdog realm and solve it? ....

 

WAR screwed it up by having multiple PVP "lakes", 2-sided PVP and a whole shit pile of scenarios. RVR style PVP happened by accident when people weren't just racking up the points keep flipping or leaving because their scenario was ready.

GW2 tried and got some of it right, But ultimately, just WTF is server allegiance? If they had Asurans fighting against the humans and the leafy elf replacement in that kind of 3 sided PVP (or hell, make it 4-sided and throw in the Gar) that would have made a much more interesting game. Plus there's way too much server flipping there because it's easy to do and go to the winning server. A big part of the problem there is what you're saying is the cure.

 

How is making the overpowered servers stay over powered rather than allow guilds to go underdog solving that issue? That doesn't solve it, it just makes it stay broken. They will just go to the winning  server and stay there... Who's going to hop to the losing server to fix it? Oh yea.. no one.

Any guild who wants to do exactly that, for the sake of improving the game, can do so easily in GW2...do they do it? 

You're overemphasizing things to hold-on to a rapidly vanishing point :)

 

And PS...why aren't we asleep? My place is too hot, what's everyone else's excuse for a thread rapidly filling up at 4:30 AM PDT? 

  deviliscious

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/09/07
Posts: 6929

"Adjusts ponytails and pulls the lollipop out of my mouth"

 
OP  7/31/13 6:32:28 AM#29
Originally posted by PAL-18

No matter how it is now but in the end they will allow it.

Just look what happened to PS2.

Planet earth triples its water mass and islands will sink   when those peeps(WTJs) starts crying why they *need* faction change.I.E winning team joiner (WTJ)

Just wait.

The thing is the WTJs are unorganized and uncoordinated and it will be real easy to make them LTJ's by just going to the other side after they hop. >: )

As long as you can switch sides too, it ensures that no one team always wins.

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2805

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

7/31/13 6:36:54 AM#30
Originally posted by deviliscious
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by deviliscious
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by deviliscious
Originally posted by keithian
Originally posted by DavisFlight
If the answer is yes, this game is even more fucked than it seems already.

That post helped a lot. I prefer a game where people can switch factions on the fly to completely destroy the balance of the game. That way I can always ensure I am on the winning side. Genius.

You do realize that the guilds that offset the balance of the game will be able to do that already don't you? Hell on one game I played every guild member had  different accounts they payed subs on. David payed over $150 a month in sub fees  a month to ONE game.  People play on multiple computers at the same time. That is the reality of this. I have 8 Pc's sitting here at my disposal if I really wanted to..

 

As for ruining the balance of the game, that is pretty much guaranteed with race locked factions. People will  get tired of losing and permanently switch to the winning realm and the other two realms will be evacuated for PvP. That cripples the PvP for everyone when you have one side  overpowered. It always happens regardless. People will either switch or quit the game all together. Been there done that, why would you want to see it die that way again?

 

They are going to switch sides anyhow. If you make it easier for them to do so, the balance actually gets corrected FASTER, instead of staying unbalanced forever.

 DAoC says otherwise

How is that working for them these days?

Would of worked extremely well if they hadn't done a 180 on game design and try and turn the game into a PvE game.  Same as any game that starts out with a general market they try to reach then alienate them with a change in course.  It being a 3 faction RvR game wasn't what drove them to mediocrity.  Its the same correlation as UO's Trammel, SWG's NGE etc. etc. etc.

 

If WoW was to change their model from a raid game in the next expansion and not implemented any new raids, the game would die as well.  SO it isn't the game that's the problem its the change that caused DAoC to fail.

Yes but if you created  DAoC now, it would be all screwed up as well because the player demographics are very different now. Games have to be equipped to deal with the mega guilds rather than just soloers/ small guilds or balance gets crushed quick.

 And that is why you create an RvR area so massive in scope that any large guild would not be able to lock it down.  You do realize that Cyrodiil is the same size as all the other 3 factions zones combined.  Plus there's more to do in the RvR then just PvP.  The best crafting drops will come from there, some of the best items will come from there.  You will acquire a separate skill tree to use there.  They'll be PvE dungeons and a Darkness Falls dungeon going on there.  In short there's going to be so much room and so much content to do besides PvP that it couldn't possibly fail in this age.  2000 people in 1 zone is large, larger then most games servers handle. 

I've ragged on TESO a lot lately, and for good reason, but its PvP system is the one thing they got right and if theres one thing that Matt Firor knows is how to create a successful RvR game.  And as Iselin pointed out, do not discredit the fact that your enemy is an entire different race.  Everything will play out even in this age of McMMO players and WoW rejects.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  deviliscious

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/09/07
Posts: 6929

"Adjusts ponytails and pulls the lollipop out of my mouth"

 
OP  7/31/13 6:38:46 AM#31
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by deviliscious
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by deviliscious
Originally posted by Iselin

 

 

All this does is:

1) Forces players to spend more time waiting in game than actually playing it.

2) Prevents players from playing the game with the people they wish to play the game with.

3) guarantees overpowered teams stay over powered longer.

  1. How does it force people to wait when everyone in your guild will be assigned to the same campaign?  I can't imagine your guild fielding a 2000 zerg every single hour of the day.
  2. If your in the same guild you'll be able to play in the Alliance versus Alliance area at any time, there shouldn't be any queue's since the area is so large and population limit is so large.
  3. Well then, you best be coordinating with that 3rd faction to create a temporary truce to tackle an existing enemy.  But chances are you're the type of player who instead of working out a solution will run off and gank the nearest non winning faction member you want to get your PvP fix. 
It worked in DAoC and it'll work in TESO if the players allow it work.  I played Albion Guinevere for close to 3 years and the entire time we were the most populated realm but I assure you, the Hibs and Mids kept us busy every single day.  Often times kept us choked in within our own Milegate because they worked together to overcome a greater threat.  If Hib or Mid had gone their own way we would of annihilated both sides and kept both realms choked up at their own MG.  And the game would of become extremely unfun but because the 2 weaker realms worked together as the game was designed to be, our overwhelming numbers were kept in check night in and night out.

1) Who are they going to play when everyone moved to the winning realm? How long are they going to have to wait to play if one realm becomes more populated for pvp than the others?

2) Say your guild is Ebonheart, can you , as a Breton fight alongside them as a Breton?  Oh wait...

3) What are you going o0n about? If you want to know the type of PvP I am you can read my post in developers corner here rather than make ridiculous assumptions:  http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/159765/the-best-pvp-combat-a-girls-perspective.html

You know warhammer tried to resuscitate DAoC and failed. GW2 tried to perform a Frankenstein..  the bottom line is, it isn't working for DAoC anymore,  Guild Loyalty> Game loyalty every time. Guilds have grown from their infancy and become large  massive forces to be reckoned with moving from game to game. Failing to understand that has changed from the past  is shortsighted and not well thought through.  This is the reality of gaming in 2013. When one side gets too many guilds, it is going to win and keep winning. So what  are they implementing to allow guilds to balance it out when too many of them choose the same side? Can they just go to the underdog realm and solve it? ....

 

 

  1. You might be able to change campaigns but you wont be able to change factions.  And then you're going to lose all your realm points for switching campaigns.  And then your guaranteed to get into a winning side.
  2. I think this is a stupid decision to allow cross faction guilding but this is more for the PvE crowd and I seriously doubt many PvP guilds will allow cross faction guild mates.
  3. Warhammer failed because it had 2 factions and the RvR Lakes were extremely small which made zerging the defacto best way to play.  GW2's WvW areas were small as well, and not only that they were separated across 4 maps and it was extremely queue heavy.  Plus none of those games had things like relics, realm ranks, or Darkness Falls.  In short those 2 games PvP mode failed not because they went an RvR route but because they strayed too far from the RvR route.
If one side gets the advantage which they most likely will, then if you allow them to continue to dominate then you have no one but your self to blame and should play something more to your liken. In DAoC as I've said, the underdogs banded together day in and day out to even the odds, and even break the odds on many days.  The tools are available for you to use, if you choose not to then you deserve to lose repeatedly.

1)You will be able to keep campaigns and change factions. My 8 pc's and multiple bank accounts guarantees it. Most hardcore Pvpers already know that trick. LMAO. It is just the newbies that will have to start over.

2)So you find out your sister going to college in another state has joined an ooposing alliance, are you just going to say she can't play with you? LMAO!

It isn't like " you" will be able to do anything about it. Outnumbered and uncoordinated just gets their ass handed to them. Remember, you are going to have 8 year olds playing this game as well. Yea.. gather up 'em 8 yr olds and go wip the tar outta 'em vets. That is really going to work. LOL

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2805

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

7/31/13 6:39:18 AM#32
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by deviliscious
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by deviliscious
You know warhammer tried to resuscitate DAoC and failed. GW2 tried to perform a Frankenstein..  the bottom line is, it isn't working for DAoC anymore,  Guild Loyalty> Game loyalty every time. Guilds have grown from their infancy and become large  massive forces to be reckoned with moving from game to game. Failing to understand that has changed from the past  is shortsighted and not well thought through.  This is the reality of gaming in 2013. When one side gets too many guilds, it is going to win and keep winning. So what  are they implementing to allow guilds to balance it out when too many of them choose the same side? Can they just go to the underdog realm and solve it? ....

 

WAR screwed it up by having multiple PVP "lakes", 2-sided PVP and a whole shit pile of scenarios. RVR style PVP happened by accident when people weren't just racking up the points keep flipping or leaving because their scenario was ready.

GW2 tried and got some of it right, But ultimately, just WTF is server allegiance? If they had Asurans fighting against the humans and the leafy elf replacement in that kind of 3 sided PVP (or hell, make it 4-sided and throw in the Gar) that would have made a much more interesting game. Plus there's way too much server flipping there because it's easy to do and go to the winning server. A big part of the problem there is what you're saying is the cure.

 

How is making the overpowered servers stay over powered rather than allow guilds to go underdog solving that issue? That doesn't solve it, it just makes it stay broken. They will just go to the winning  server and stay there... Who's going to hop to the losing server to fix it? Oh yea.. no one.

Any guild who wants to do exactly that, for the sake of improving the game, can do so easily in GW2...do they do it? 

You're overemphasizing things to hold-on to a rapidly vanishing point :)

 

And PS...why aren't we asleep? My place is too hot, what's everyone else's excuse for a thread rapidly filling up at 4:30 AM PDT? 

My excuse is I am too excited about my doctors appointment later this morning.  After a lengthy rehab I am hoping for good news so I can return to work.  Being cooped up with an hallow around my leg due to a knee replacement has taken its toll on me lol.  I want to get back out on the street so I can protect and serve.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  deviliscious

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/09/07
Posts: 6929

"Adjusts ponytails and pulls the lollipop out of my mouth"

 
OP  7/31/13 6:41:51 AM#33
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by deviliscious
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by deviliscious
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by deviliscious
Originally posted by keithian
Originally posted by DavisFlight
If the answer is yes, this game is even more fucked than it seems already.

That post helped a lot. I prefer a game where people can switch factions on the fly to completely destroy the balance of the game. That way I can always ensure I am on the winning side. Genius.

You do realize that the guilds that offset the balance of the game will be able to do that already don't you? Hell on one game I played every guild member had  different accounts they payed subs on. David payed over $150 a month in sub fees  a month to ONE game.  People play on multiple computers at the same time. That is the reality of this. I have 8 Pc's sitting here at my disposal if I really wanted to..

 

As for ruining the balance of the game, that is pretty much guaranteed with race locked factions. People will  get tired of losing and permanently switch to the winning realm and the other two realms will be evacuated for PvP. That cripples the PvP for everyone when you have one side  overpowered. It always happens regardless. People will either switch or quit the game all together. Been there done that, why would you want to see it die that way again?

 

They are going to switch sides anyhow. If you make it easier for them to do so, the balance actually gets corrected FASTER, instead of staying unbalanced forever.

 DAoC says otherwise

How is that working for them these days?

Would of worked extremely well if they hadn't done a 180 on game design and try and turn the game into a PvE game.  Same as any game that starts out with a general market they try to reach then alienate them with a change in course.  It being a 3 faction RvR game wasn't what drove them to mediocrity.  Its the same correlation as UO's Trammel, SWG's NGE etc. etc. etc.

 

If WoW was to change their model from a raid game in the next expansion and not implemented any new raids, the game would die as well.  SO it isn't the game that's the problem its the change that caused DAoC to fail.

Yes but if you created  DAoC now, it would be all screwed up as well because the player demographics are very different now. Games have to be equipped to deal with the mega guilds rather than just soloers/ small guilds or balance gets crushed quick.

 And that is why you create an RvR area so massive in scope that any large guild would not be able to lock it down.  You do realize that Cyrodiil is the same size as all the other 3 factions zones combined.  Plus there's more to do in the RvR then just PvP.  The best crafting drops will come from there, some of the best items will come from there.  You will acquire a separate skill tree to use there.  They'll be PvE dungeons and a Darkness Falls dungeon going on there.  In short there's going to be so much room and so much content to do besides PvP that it couldn't possibly fail in this age.  2000 people in 1 zone is large, larger then most games servers handle. 

I've ragged on TESO a lot lately, and for good reason, but its PvP system is the one thing they got right and if theres one thing that Matt Firor knows is how to create a successful RvR game.  And as Iselin pointed out, do not discredit the fact that your enemy is an entire different race.  Everything will play out even in this age of McMMO players and WoW rejects.

Have you ever played Eve? It will be locked down. Easy. I am not concerned with the PvE content, it is the PvP I see serious problems with already. I live in PvP, that is all I do.

  deviliscious

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/09/07
Posts: 6929

"Adjusts ponytails and pulls the lollipop out of my mouth"

 
OP  7/31/13 6:42:54 AM#34
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by deviliscious
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by deviliscious
You know warhammer tried to resuscitate DAoC and failed. GW2 tried to perform a Frankenstein..  the bottom line is, it isn't working for DAoC anymore,  Guild Loyalty> Game loyalty every time. Guilds have grown from their infancy and become large  massive forces to be reckoned with moving from game to game. Failing to understand that has changed from the past  is shortsighted and not well thought through.  This is the reality of gaming in 2013. When one side gets too many guilds, it is going to win and keep winning. So what  are they implementing to allow guilds to balance it out when too many of them choose the same side? Can they just go to the underdog realm and solve it? ....

 

WAR screwed it up by having multiple PVP "lakes", 2-sided PVP and a whole shit pile of scenarios. RVR style PVP happened by accident when people weren't just racking up the points keep flipping or leaving because their scenario was ready.

GW2 tried and got some of it right, But ultimately, just WTF is server allegiance? If they had Asurans fighting against the humans and the leafy elf replacement in that kind of 3 sided PVP (or hell, make it 4-sided and throw in the Gar) that would have made a much more interesting game. Plus there's way too much server flipping there because it's easy to do and go to the winning server. A big part of the problem there is what you're saying is the cure.

 

How is making the overpowered servers stay over powered rather than allow guilds to go underdog solving that issue? That doesn't solve it, it just makes it stay broken. They will just go to the winning  server and stay there... Who's going to hop to the losing server to fix it? Oh yea.. no one.

Any guild who wants to do exactly that, for the sake of improving the game, can do so easily in GW2...do they do it? 

You're overemphasizing things to hold-on to a rapidly vanishing point :)

 

And PS...why aren't we asleep? My place is too hot, what's everyone else's excuse for a thread rapidly filling up at 4:30 AM PDT? 

My excuse is I am too excited about my doctors appointment later this morning.  After a lengthy rehab I am hoping for good news so I can return to work.  Being cooped up with an hallow around my leg due to a knee replacement has taken its toll on me lol.  I want to get back out on the street so I can protect and serve.

I woke up for a glass of water. LOL

  PAL-18

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/14/13
Posts: 740

7/31/13 6:43:04 AM#35
Originally posted by deviliscious
Originally posted by PAL-18

No matter how it is now but in the end they will allow it.

Just look what happened to PS2.

Planet earth triples its water mass and islands will sink   when those peeps(WTJs) starts crying why they *need* faction change.I.E winning team joiner (WTJ)

Just wait.

The thing is the WTJs are unorganized and uncoordinated and it will be real easy to make them LTJ's by just going to the other side after they hop. >: )

As long as you can switch sides too, it ensures that no one team always wins.

And because of WTJs rest of the players are forced to change faction,who did not want faction changes in the first place.soz not a good idea.

heres 2 fast solutions.

a)Counter Strike model,votekick WTJs out of the server / faction.

b) rp , pvp, pve and WTJ servers.

in WTJ server peeps can change factions on the fly and in others they cant.

 

So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.
By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
**On the radar:http://cyberpunk.net/**

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2805

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

7/31/13 6:48:23 AM#36
Originally posted by deviliscious
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by deviliscious
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by deviliscious
Originally posted by Iselin

 

 

All this does is:

1) Forces players to spend more time waiting in game than actually playing it.

2) Prevents players from playing the game with the people they wish to play the game with.

3) guarantees overpowered teams stay over powered longer.

  1. How does it force people to wait when everyone in your guild will be assigned to the same campaign?  I can't imagine your guild fielding a 2000 zerg every single hour of the day.
  2. If your in the same guild you'll be able to play in the Alliance versus Alliance area at any time, there shouldn't be any queue's since the area is so large and population limit is so large.
  3. Well then, you best be coordinating with that 3rd faction to create a temporary truce to tackle an existing enemy.  But chances are you're the type of player who instead of working out a solution will run off and gank the nearest non winning faction member you want to get your PvP fix. 
It worked in DAoC and it'll work in TESO if the players allow it work.  I played Albion Guinevere for close to 3 years and the entire time we were the most populated realm but I assure you, the Hibs and Mids kept us busy every single day.  Often times kept us choked in within our own Milegate because they worked together to overcome a greater threat.  If Hib or Mid had gone their own way we would of annihilated both sides and kept both realms choked up at their own MG.  And the game would of become extremely unfun but because the 2 weaker realms worked together as the game was designed to be, our overwhelming numbers were kept in check night in and night out.

1) Who are they going to play when everyone moved to the winning realm? How long are they going to have to wait to play if one realm becomes more populated for pvp than the others?

2) Say your guild is Ebonheart, can you , as a Breton fight alongside them as a Breton?  Oh wait...

3) What are you going o0n about? If you want to know the type of PvP I am you can read my post in developers corner here rather than make ridiculous assumptions:  http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/159765/the-best-pvp-combat-a-girls-perspective.html

You know warhammer tried to resuscitate DAoC and failed. GW2 tried to perform a Frankenstein..  the bottom line is, it isn't working for DAoC anymore,  Guild Loyalty> Game loyalty every time. Guilds have grown from their infancy and become large  massive forces to be reckoned with moving from game to game. Failing to understand that has changed from the past  is shortsighted and not well thought through.  This is the reality of gaming in 2013. When one side gets too many guilds, it is going to win and keep winning. So what  are they implementing to allow guilds to balance it out when too many of them choose the same side? Can they just go to the underdog realm and solve it? ....

 

 

  1. You might be able to change campaigns but you wont be able to change factions.  And then you're going to lose all your realm points for switching campaigns.  And then your guaranteed to get into a winning side.
  2. I think this is a stupid decision to allow cross faction guilding but this is more for the PvE crowd and I seriously doubt many PvP guilds will allow cross faction guild mates.
  3. Warhammer failed because it had 2 factions and the RvR Lakes were extremely small which made zerging the defacto best way to play.  GW2's WvW areas were small as well, and not only that they were separated across 4 maps and it was extremely queue heavy.  Plus none of those games had things like relics, realm ranks, or Darkness Falls.  In short those 2 games PvP mode failed not because they went an RvR route but because they strayed too far from the RvR route.
If one side gets the advantage which they most likely will, then if you allow them to continue to dominate then you have no one but your self to blame and should play something more to your liken. In DAoC as I've said, the underdogs banded together day in and day out to even the odds, and even break the odds on many days.  The tools are available for you to use, if you choose not to then you deserve to lose repeatedly.

1)You will be able to keep campaigns and change factions. My 8 pc's and multiple bank accounts guarantees it. Most hardcore Pvpers already know that trick. LMAO. It is just the newbies that will have to start over.

2)So you find out your sister going to college in another state has joined an ooposing alliance, are you just going to say she can't play with you? LMAO!

It isn't like " you" will be able to do anything about it. Outnumbered and uncoordinated just gets their ass handed to them. Remember, you are going to have 8 year olds playing this game as well. Yea.. gather up 'em 8 yr olds and go wip the tar outta 'em vets. That is really going to work. LOL

  1. So you'll reroll a new faction and level up all over again just because your loosing?  Sounds extremely silly if you ask me, but that'll be your only choice in rerolling a new faction.  For the record if you want to ignore this step might I suggest you and your guild rolling Aldmeri Dominion.  Mark my words that is going to be the OP side based on research I've done with PvP guilds.  Not gonna let it deter me from rolling my beloved Dunmer however.  And my best guess we'll be the most populated side but probably the worst in PvP and I am fine with that.
  2. If  knew my sister was going to college and I wanted her to join my side then I'd tell her to join me before choosing that other state.  The whole, well my friend rolled on another server is a BS argument because if he/she is your friend in the first place, you'll both let each other know prior to starting the game where you'll both go.  Else she isn't much of a friend.
Again, instead of pouting and worrying about an issue that may or may not crop up, why not do something about it.  Something the developers have inherently integrated into the game.  That being the 3rd faction.  Join with them, make alliances, do not backstab them, create a defacto alliance til lthe winning side is demolished.  It worked beautifully in DAoC and it can work again in this age of MMO players, but someone's got to take the first step.  And like I said, if you're unwilling to be that person to handle the situation with tools given, you deserve to lose and I have no pity for that mentality and hope your ego gets crushed day in and day out.  Metaphorically speaking of course.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2805

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

7/31/13 6:52:06 AM#37
Originally posted by deviliscious
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by deviliscious
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by deviliscious
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by deviliscious
Originally posted by keithian
Originally posted by DavisFlight
If the answer is yes, this game is even more fucked than it seems already.

That post helped a lot. I prefer a game where people can switch factions on the fly to completely destroy the balance of the game. That way I can always ensure I am on the winning side. Genius.

You do realize that the guilds that offset the balance of the game will be able to do that already don't you? Hell on one game I played every guild member had  different accounts they payed subs on. David payed over $150 a month in sub fees  a month to ONE game.  People play on multiple computers at the same time. That is the reality of this. I have 8 Pc's sitting here at my disposal if I really wanted to..

 

As for ruining the balance of the game, that is pretty much guaranteed with race locked factions. People will  get tired of losing and permanently switch to the winning realm and the other two realms will be evacuated for PvP. That cripples the PvP for everyone when you have one side  overpowered. It always happens regardless. People will either switch or quit the game all together. Been there done that, why would you want to see it die that way again?

 

They are going to switch sides anyhow. If you make it easier for them to do so, the balance actually gets corrected FASTER, instead of staying unbalanced forever.

 DAoC says otherwise

How is that working for them these days?

Would of worked extremely well if they hadn't done a 180 on game design and try and turn the game into a PvE game.  Same as any game that starts out with a general market they try to reach then alienate them with a change in course.  It being a 3 faction RvR game wasn't what drove them to mediocrity.  Its the same correlation as UO's Trammel, SWG's NGE etc. etc. etc.

 

If WoW was to change their model from a raid game in the next expansion and not implemented any new raids, the game would die as well.  SO it isn't the game that's the problem its the change that caused DAoC to fail.

Yes but if you created  DAoC now, it would be all screwed up as well because the player demographics are very different now. Games have to be equipped to deal with the mega guilds rather than just soloers/ small guilds or balance gets crushed quick.

 And that is why you create an RvR area so massive in scope that any large guild would not be able to lock it down.  You do realize that Cyrodiil is the same size as all the other 3 factions zones combined.  Plus there's more to do in the RvR then just PvP.  The best crafting drops will come from there, some of the best items will come from there.  You will acquire a separate skill tree to use there.  They'll be PvE dungeons and a Darkness Falls dungeon going on there.  In short there's going to be so much room and so much content to do besides PvP that it couldn't possibly fail in this age.  2000 people in 1 zone is large, larger then most games servers handle. 

I've ragged on TESO a lot lately, and for good reason, but its PvP system is the one thing they got right and if theres one thing that Matt Firor knows is how to create a successful RvR game.  And as Iselin pointed out, do not discredit the fact that your enemy is an entire different race.  Everything will play out even in this age of McMMO players and WoW rejects.

Have you ever played Eve? It will be locked down. Easy. I am not concerned with the PvE content, it is the PvP I see serious problems with already. I live in PvP, that is all I do.

 Nope I haven't but that's more to do with its FFA PvP model then anything else.  Same thing happened with my most beloved MMO of all time Asheron's Call.  It is one of the pitfalls of FFA PvP and it is not mutually exclusive of an RvR game.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  deviliscious

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/09/07
Posts: 6929

"Adjusts ponytails and pulls the lollipop out of my mouth"

 
OP  7/31/13 6:52:42 AM#38
Originally posted by PAL-18
Originally posted by deviliscious
Originally posted by PAL-18

No matter how it is now but in the end they will allow it.

Just look what happened to PS2.

Planet earth triples its water mass and islands will sink   when those peeps(WTJs) starts crying why they *need* faction change.I.E winning team joiner (WTJ)

Just wait.

The thing is the WTJs are unorganized and uncoordinated and it will be real easy to make them LTJ's by just going to the other side after they hop. >: )

As long as you can switch sides too, it ensures that no one team always wins.

And because of WTJs rest of the players are forced to change faction,who did not want faction changes in the first place.soz not a good idea.

heres 2 fast solutions.

a)Counter Strike model,votekick WTJs out of the server / faction.

b) rp , pvp, pve and WTJ servers.

in WTJ server peeps can change factions on the fly and in others they cant.

 

They are going to be forced to regardless. The WTJ's don't care they will hop anyhow, regardless of how hard they make it to do so. 

They cannot even do your suggestions. The email  I received earlier is saying that is not possible:

"Hi there!

Thank you for contacting The Elder Scrolls Online Team and expressing your interest in helping us test The Elder Scrolls Online.

I hope I am not misunderstanding your question here, but you are asking about changing realms? If so, there will only be one server in game. The megaserver technology featured in The Elder Scrolls Online will allow PC (Windows OS) players and Mac players to play together. Xbox One players will play on a specific megaserver with other players using an Xbox One. PlayStation 4 players will have a specific megaserver dedicated to only those players using a PS4.

I hope this answers your question, if you are unsure about my reply or it did not cover your question, please reply back :)

Warm Regards,

John

The Elder Scrolls Online Team"

And oo I got a reply to my original question!

"Hi again Carrie!

The game is still pretty far from launch and as such a lot of things can change, but yes at the moment there is 3 different factions fighting eachother and if you choose a race then you represent that faction and you cannot change factions.

For instance, if you choose the Breton as a race then you represent the Daggerfall Covenant and you cannot fight alongside races from the other two factions as they are your enemies.

Again, all of this might change and our developers are keeping an eye on the community and listening to the fans. I recommend you open this topic for discussion on our official forum which you can find here: http://forums.bethsoft.com/forum/190-elder-scrolls-online-general-discussion/

Thank you again for taking time to write to this :)

Warm Regards,

John

The Elder Scrolls Online Team" 

However, it gives me hope this may change.

You realize that you are going to have a very young player base as well given the fans of this? There is going to be some serious hopping going on.

  deviliscious

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/09/07
Posts: 6929

"Adjusts ponytails and pulls the lollipop out of my mouth"

 
OP  7/31/13 6:55:16 AM#39
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by deviliscious
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by deviliscious
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by deviliscious
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by deviliscious
Originally posted by keithian
Originally posted by DavisFlight
If the answer is yes, this game is even more fucked than it seems already.

That post helped a lot. I prefer a game where people can switch factions on the fly to completely destroy the balance of the game. That way I can always ensure I am on the winning side. Genius.

You do realize that the guilds that offset the balance of the game will be able to do that already don't you? Hell on one game I played every guild member had  different accounts they payed subs on. David payed over $150 a month in sub fees  a month to ONE game.  People play on multiple computers at the same time. That is the reality of this. I have 8 Pc's sitting here at my disposal if I really wanted to..

 

As for ruining the balance of the game, that is pretty much guaranteed with race locked factions. People will  get tired of losing and permanently switch to the winning realm and the other two realms will be evacuated for PvP. That cripples the PvP for everyone when you have one side  overpowered. It always happens regardless. People will either switch or quit the game all together. Been there done that, why would you want to see it die that way again?

 

They are going to switch sides anyhow. If you make it easier for them to do so, the balance actually gets corrected FASTER, instead of staying unbalanced forever.

 DAoC says otherwise

How is that working for them these days?

Would of worked extremely well if they hadn't done a 180 on game design and try and turn the game into a PvE game.  Same as any game that starts out with a general market they try to reach then alienate them with a change in course.  It being a 3 faction RvR game wasn't what drove them to mediocrity.  Its the same correlation as UO's Trammel, SWG's NGE etc. etc. etc.

 

If WoW was to change their model from a raid game in the next expansion and not implemented any new raids, the game would die as well.  SO it isn't the game that's the problem its the change that caused DAoC to fail.

Yes but if you created  DAoC now, it would be all screwed up as well because the player demographics are very different now. Games have to be equipped to deal with the mega guilds rather than just soloers/ small guilds or balance gets crushed quick.

 And that is why you create an RvR area so massive in scope that any large guild would not be able to lock it down.  You do realize that Cyrodiil is the same size as all the other 3 factions zones combined.  Plus there's more to do in the RvR then just PvP.  The best crafting drops will come from there, some of the best items will come from there.  You will acquire a separate skill tree to use there.  They'll be PvE dungeons and a Darkness Falls dungeon going on there.  In short there's going to be so much room and so much content to do besides PvP that it couldn't possibly fail in this age.  2000 people in 1 zone is large, larger then most games servers handle. 

I've ragged on TESO a lot lately, and for good reason, but its PvP system is the one thing they got right and if theres one thing that Matt Firor knows is how to create a successful RvR game.  And as Iselin pointed out, do not discredit the fact that your enemy is an entire different race.  Everything will play out even in this age of McMMO players and WoW rejects.

Have you ever played Eve? It will be locked down. Easy. I am not concerned with the PvE content, it is the PvP I see serious problems with already. I live in PvP, that is all I do.

 Nope I haven't but that's more to do with its FFA PvP model then anything else.  Same thing happened with my most beloved MMO of all time Asheron's Call.  It is one of the pitfalls of FFA PvP and it is not mutually exclusive of an RvR game.

You should understand though,  the demographics of who is going to be playing this is going to be HUGE.

Eve guilds are coming, wow guilds are coming and 8 year olds are coming... It is going to be a mad house. LOL

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2805

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

7/31/13 7:05:46 AM#40
Originally posted by deviliscious
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by deviliscious
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by deviliscious
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by deviliscious
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by deviliscious
Originally posted by keithian
Originally posted by DavisFlight
If the answer is yes, this game is even more fucked than it seems already.

That post helped a lot. I prefer a game where people can switch factions on the fly to completely destroy the balance of the game. That way I can always ensure I am on the winning side. Genius.

You do realize that the guilds that offset the balance of the game will be able to do that already don't you? Hell on one game I played every guild member had  different accounts they payed subs on. David payed over $150 a month in sub fees  a month to ONE game.  People play on multiple computers at the same time. That is the reality of this. I have 8 Pc's sitting here at my disposal if I really wanted to..

 

As for ruining the balance of the game, that is pretty much guaranteed with race locked factions. People will  get tired of losing and permanently switch to the winning realm and the other two realms will be evacuated for PvP. That cripples the PvP for everyone when you have one side  overpowered. It always happens regardless. People will either switch or quit the game all together. Been there done that, why would you want to see it die that way again?

 

They are going to switch sides anyhow. If you make it easier for them to do so, the balance actually gets corrected FASTER, instead of staying unbalanced forever.

 DAoC says otherwise

How is that working for them these days?

Would of worked extremely well if they hadn't done a 180 on game design and try and turn the game into a PvE game.  Same as any game that starts out with a general market they try to reach then alienate them with a change in course.  It being a 3 faction RvR game wasn't what drove them to mediocrity.  Its the same correlation as UO's Trammel, SWG's NGE etc. etc. etc.

 

If WoW was to change their model from a raid game in the next expansion and not implemented any new raids, the game would die as well.  SO it isn't the game that's the problem its the change that caused DAoC to fail.

Yes but if you created  DAoC now, it would be all screwed up as well because the player demographics are very different now. Games have to be equipped to deal with the mega guilds rather than just soloers/ small guilds or balance gets crushed quick.

 And that is why you create an RvR area so massive in scope that any large guild would not be able to lock it down.  You do realize that Cyrodiil is the same size as all the other 3 factions zones combined.  Plus there's more to do in the RvR then just PvP.  The best crafting drops will come from there, some of the best items will come from there.  You will acquire a separate skill tree to use there.  They'll be PvE dungeons and a Darkness Falls dungeon going on there.  In short there's going to be so much room and so much content to do besides PvP that it couldn't possibly fail in this age.  2000 people in 1 zone is large, larger then most games servers handle. 

I've ragged on TESO a lot lately, and for good reason, but its PvP system is the one thing they got right and if theres one thing that Matt Firor knows is how to create a successful RvR game.  And as Iselin pointed out, do not discredit the fact that your enemy is an entire different race.  Everything will play out even in this age of McMMO players and WoW rejects.

Have you ever played Eve? It will be locked down. Easy. I am not concerned with the PvE content, it is the PvP I see serious problems with already. I live in PvP, that is all I do.

 Nope I haven't but that's more to do with its FFA PvP model then anything else.  Same thing happened with my most beloved MMO of all time Asheron's Call.  It is one of the pitfalls of FFA PvP and it is not mutually exclusive of an RvR game.

You should understand though,  the demographics of who is going to be playing this is going to be HUGE.

Eve guilds are coming, wow guilds are coming and 8 year olds are coming... It is going to be a mad house. LOL

The PvP should be fun and for once a true spiritual successor to DAoC is getting released.  I have 100% confidence in the AvA system because of who's behind the helm.  Look at my post history, I have been very critical of this game for a while now but its not the PvP that I am worried about.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

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