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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] General: MMO’s New Buzzwords: Dynamic Events

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57 posts found
  BillMurphy

Managing Editor

Joined: 7/28/06
Posts: 1658

 
OP  7/29/13 4:55:05 AM#1

Buzzwords seem to attract a lot of attention to topics of interest. Showcasing his unique inside perspective, Mark Kern takes a look at the power of buzzwords. Keep reading before heading to the comments to discuss the article.

MMOs after World of Warcraft have long tried to imitate its success.This meant creating Themepark worlds, where quest hubs and fixed attractions dominated the content and gameplay. While many publishers tried for a decade to capture the WoW audience, none of them ever came close and many actually failed. As gamers hopped on MMO after MMO hoping for that next “spark”, we became disappointed and jaded as nothing was ever quite as captivating as our first experience in World of Warcraft or other early MMOs.

Read more of Mark Kern's MMO’s New Buzzwords: Dynamic Events.

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 6964

7/29/13 8:57:43 AM#2

Next weeks we tackle another buzz word, "Living World."

 

On the opposite end of the spectrum you have Wushu pvp "dynamic events" such as Script stealing/protection, guild cart escorts/robbing, guild wars, school wars etc. These events happen all over the game world and are driven by players. It's the closest thing I've seen to a "dynamic events". Yet and still there could be more.

 

I'm not sure mmorpg tech is advanced enough to make pve events as dynamic. Maybe EQN with story bricks can make truly dynamic pve events, idk.

 

 

 
  Vorch

Novice Member

Joined: 9/18/11
Posts: 757

7/29/13 9:02:53 AM#3

I do hope that more developers look at creating dynamic worlds and also add content that can occur SPECIFICALLY based on a particular player's choices.

 

This actually happens in GW2, but not NEARLY enough. For instance, let's say you chose to kill some higher ups in the ministry rather than simply spy on them. Hired killers from the ministry may pop up in Krytan areas and say they were sent to kill you, triggering an event in the open world.

Along with dynamic events, these sorts of events that bringe a player's instanced story with the open world should be looked into much more fervently.

 

I would also like to see more player generated content. The Foundry from Neverwinter proved that it's not easy, but it IS possible.

"As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days— those are now the only two states you’ll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2

  Ziegler

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/01/06
Posts: 140

7/29/13 9:06:08 AM#4
Firefall was heading in the right direction when I beta tested it early last year with dynamic event, as was RIFT when I played it.  Those are nice but still not sandboxy enough. Let's face it, SIMs is raging success just because people can design their own.  Throw in some PVP fights, and  scarce resources and the ability to build that house on your own and now you have some staying power.  Theme parks are self defeating for a long time now. We want to provide you everything to do, and you want to do it as fast as possible.......then 3 months into the game, people are leaving in droves because they have topped out. MMO's havent been building with the long term in mind.  sandboxes and randomness...and rarity are going to need to make a comeback for longevity of a MMO now.  Devs...after we have been screaming it for  years...are starting to see the light.
  User Deleted
7/29/13 9:27:32 AM#5

The new problem is that dynamic events are not dynamic enough. Once you've seen one Rift you've seen them all. Once you've killed Jormag every 4 hours for 6 months, it feels pretty static. Truly dynamic events need to actually change each time you play them.

Firefall for example will have you do an event to defend some area. If you lose, you have an event to retake the area. Then an event to defend the area, then an event to retake the area. Rinse repeat forever. Is that dynamic?

  sirphobos

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/10/11
Posts: 594

7/29/13 9:31:25 AM#6

The problem with dynamic events is that they aren't really dynamic, they're really just quests that are only available at certain times, and eventually they become stale just like any regular old quest does.

The closest thing to true dynamic events that I've ever seen in an MMO were the GM run events that you used to see in the first few years of Everquest.  I wish that another MMO would do something like that again as they were usually a pretty fun distraction from the normal grind.

  ButeoRegalis

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/02/10
Posts: 381

7/29/13 9:46:52 AM#7

On the opposite end of the spectrum you have Wushu pvp "dynamic events" such as Script stealing/protection, guild cart escorts/robbing, guild wars, school wars etc. These events happen all over the game world and are driven by players. It's the closest thing I've seen to a "dynamic events". Yet and still there could be more.

A challenge here is balance. If you escort/attack a caravan in an open PvP arrangement you find the caravan attacked/defended by 5 times your numbers, the event is crappy.

Emergent gameplay is awesome when it works, but a frustrating waste of time if it doesn't. Few people are willing to put up money or time to gamble on this.

 
  CrazKanuk

Elite Member

Joined: 10/06/09
Posts: 819

7/29/13 9:49:30 AM#8
Originally posted by mCalvert

The new problem is that dynamic events are not dynamic enough. Once you've seen one Rift you've seen them all. Once you've killed Jormag every 4 hours for 6 months, it feels pretty static. Truly dynamic events need to actually change each time you play them.

Firefall for example will have you do an event to defend some area. If you lose, you have an event to retake the area. Then an event to defend the area, then an event to retake the area. Rinse repeat forever. Is that dynamic?

Yes, I tend to agree. I think that the advancement that Firefall makes with regards to this subject is "dynamic". I mean whether you like it or not, Firefall is based around an invasion, so "The Chosen" are always taking over your stuff, or trying to. I would consider it dynamic in the dictionary sense of the word. I don't ever see one attack on an outpost that's the same as the last.

 

This is an improvement over GW2 where it's like "Escort this merchant to the next city" then complete that and walk back to the starting point and you're able to do the same escort all over again, same path, same obstacles. Again, this may still be dynamic in the dictionary sense of the world in that the event is triggered dynamically by someone, whoever that may be. However, it's still programmed. 

 

Both can be tedious at times, but I wouldn't slam either of them. These are progressions in the concept and also in AI. In Firefall, for instance, I've watched Chosen forces headed for one outpost actually change direction and, literally, move towards an easier target. So then you've got to actually go and chase them down. Sure, there is still logic behind that, but it's an improvement. For as shallow as Firefall might seem, initially, I actually find myself more invested in that world, at times, than I do in other games. It provides some sense of urgency. I will actually stop what I'm doing in order to go and help to stop an Incursion because I know it's simply not something that someone can do on their own. 

 

So it's all about the progression of the experience and I think that we've seen some huge improvements in both Firefall and GW2. Unfortunately, the inherent problem with games is that we don't get to see lessons learned until after they release, so it could be another 5 years before we see substantial updates to those ideas. So it's definitely something that's slow to improve :(

Crazkanuk

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  PAL-18

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/14/13
Posts: 679

7/29/13 9:53:58 AM#9

New?

Anarchy Online had dynamic content like 10 years ago but its mmorpg tho.

 

So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.
By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
On the radar : http://www.darkestdungeon.com/

  DavisFlight

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2388

7/29/13 9:58:03 AM#10

What's sad is that this was the direction MMOs were headed back in the 90s, getting bigger, more advanced, more impressive, and more innovative. Then there was that whole 9 year dead stop followed by regression, thanks to publishers.

 

Imagine how amazing MMOs would be today without their interference?

  botrytis

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 2445

7/29/13 10:01:56 AM#11
Originally posted by PAL-18

New?

Anarchy Online had dynamic content like 10 years ago but its mmorpg tho.

 

Anarchy online was very scripted and not as dynamic as you think it was. Dynamic scripting takes alot of coding and horsepower to do. We are just getting into the time where that is possible.

"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 6964

7/29/13 10:02:31 AM#12
Originally posted by sirphobos

The problem with dynamic events is that they aren't really dynamic, they're really just quests that are only available at certain times, and eventually they become stale just like any regular old quest does.

The closest thing to true dynamic events that I've ever seen in an MMO were the GM run events that you used to see in the first few years of Everquest.  I wish that another MMO would do something like that again as they were usually a pretty fun distraction from the normal grind.

GM's in Wushu do this. Last night at 9pm cst, they hosted a "come challenge the GMs" event.

 

I'n the past they've placed bounties on themselves (behind a cool lil story). If you catch them you get the bounty. They then told the server the scene they would spawn in. This cause EVERYONE to grab constable status and go hunt them. They just pop up from time to time here and there, ask questions and show off stuff not yet in the game.

 

I see where you're coming from here. Man if someone could get pve right though. ?I might start to enjoy it again.

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 6964

7/29/13 10:07:53 AM#13
Originally posted by ButeoRegalis

On the opposite end of the spectrum you have Wushu pvp "dynamic events" such as Script stealing/protection, guild cart escorts/robbing, guild wars, school wars etc. These events happen all over the game world and are driven by players. It's the closest thing I've seen to a "dynamic events". Yet and still there could be more.

A challenge here is balance. If you escort/attack a caravan in an open PvP arrangement you find the caravan attacked/defended by 5 times your numbers, the event is crappy.

Emergent gameplay is awesome when it works, but a frustrating waste of time if it doesn't. Few people are willing to put up money or time to gamble on this.

 

you exactly right about this one. The rewards just aren't enough for vets to go attack when the alert pops, so you end up with a bunch of newbs who run out and get slaughtered. The last few nights I've been trying to solo these event carts, 1-6. I haven't gotten one yet, but I've attacked one from emei to chengdu. I got it to about 25%, and died 3 times in the process. 

  Hedeon

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/27/05
Posts: 904

7/29/13 10:10:25 AM#14
dynamic events is so last year, not to say Id personally dislike them yet...
  Mr_Mechanical

Novice Member

Joined: 7/08/13
Posts: 88

7/29/13 10:33:57 AM#15

I agree with a lot of the responses here.   After playing WAR, GW2, Rift, Firefall, FFXIV: ARR, I'm just sick to death of "Dynamic Events" being the new hotness, because they really aren't impressive.   

They get really dull really fast and building a game around it just makes the game feel shallow and repetitive.  The problem truly is that they aren't actually as dynamic as the publishers ever promise.   They are scripted events that are on Timers, or triggered by player interactions just the same as a normal quest is triggered by hitting the 'accept' button.    It's actually quite insulting that we've been tricked into thinking big things about a game just because they boast a crap dynamic system that's supposed to entertain us for 'years" (yeah right.)

  FFXIV: ARR is at least a real MMORPG with adventure, exploration, story, and staying power built right in, and only uses F.A.T.E.S. as sort of an 'extra' for those that got too used to grinding dynamic events for the last 6 years.      You can completely ignore them and still have a full mmorpg experience without feeling forced to go sprinting after every dynamic event that pops up.

I can see the wires, though.    Dynamic Events in their current state is nothing more than a scam to get people to buy a game that, yet again, can't figure out how to "beat wow" and is too scared to provide a player-driven world.

 
  Nemesis7884

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/21/10
Posts: 451

7/29/13 11:16:35 AM#16
Dynamic events are so yesterday
  Lord.Bachus

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8525

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

7/29/13 11:20:20 AM#17
Dynamic events is just a first step towards dynamic zone design, where the things that are happening (events) truely influence eachother.   

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations)
Currently playing : The Elder Scrolls Online and Wildstar

  Ozmodan

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/27/07
Posts: 6562

7/29/13 11:22:40 AM#18

UO had tons of dynamic events, put on by Seers.  Some actually effected the shards they were on if a GM took the time to get involved.

So none of these current MMO's invented it, it was done in UO a long time ago......

  Foomerang

Elite Member

Joined: 11/10/05
Posts: 4652

A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still

7/29/13 11:30:15 AM#19

Dynamic Events as a buzzword has lost its impact thanks to Anet. Some dev could come along and make a truly dynamic event system and poeple will roll their eyes because of the over promising Anet did with theirs.

If you thought the events were dynamic, you'll think the stories are living.

  achesoma

Novice Member

Joined: 5/05/05
Posts: 958

7/29/13 11:45:06 AM#20
For starters, dynamic events need to be more than just leveling fodder. To me, something that is dynamic means it should change regularly and be unpredictable. Something that can't be studied in a guide or YouTube video. GW2 and others dynamic events are anything but. They make great leveling fodder IMO but lack depth and end game replayability.

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