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WildStar

WildStar 

General Discussion  » Why is one weapon not enough?

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73 posts found
  Phry

Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 5507

7/28/13 2:42:57 AM#41
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
Originally posted by Chrisbox
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by Chrisbox
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by Chrisbox
[mod edit]
[mod edit]

[mod edit]

 

 [mod edit]

 [mod edit]

[mod edit]

Well actually wildsar openly admits they are trying to copy the succes formula of WoW...  which does not mean that the game will be an exact copy of WoW, far from that, being fresh and orriginal is one of the keyfeatures of WoW, as that allowed them to turn casual gamers that never played an MMo before into MMo addicts.

The Graphics are an other example of where both Wildstar and WoW are on the same track.. and there are many more.

A strange thing to admit to when WoW is now approaching its own 'End of Life' stage, the game was massively successful, and it may well survive for another 3 or 4 years, but with even more year on year subscriber losses. And there is the further limitations placed on the classes/players, sure it probably makes sense from a developers standpoint, doesnt mean the players will agree though, or even like it. If anything it sounds a bit Neverwinter rather than WoW, probably with a bunch of phasing/intances too. Not a winning formula imo.

  Lord.Bachus

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8860

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

7/28/13 5:21:49 AM#42
Originally posted by Phry
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
Originally posted by Chrisbox
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by Chrisbox
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by Chrisbox
[mod edit]
[mod edit]

[mod edit]

 

 [mod edit]

 [mod edit]

[mod edit]

Well actually wildsar openly admits they are trying to copy the succes formula of WoW...  which does not mean that the game will be an exact copy of WoW, far from that, being fresh and orriginal is one of the keyfeatures of WoW, as that allowed them to turn casual gamers that never played an MMo before into MMo addicts.

The Graphics are an other example of where both Wildstar and WoW are on the same track.. and there are many more.

A strange thing to admit to when WoW is now approaching its own 'End of Life' stage, the game was massively successful, and it may well survive for another 3 or 4 years, but with even more year on year subscriber losses. And there is the further limitations placed on the classes/players, sure it probably makes sense from a developers standpoint, doesnt mean the players will agree though, or even like it. If anything it sounds a bit Neverwinter rather than WoW, probably with a bunch of phasing/intances too. Not a winning formula imo.

I think the neverwinter formula is awesome for certain people... not everyone is looking for the same thing in an MMO, and Neverwinter will certainly have its own niche and share,.... there is a lot of incredible adventures to be found in the foundry, yes its instanced, but some awesome stories are told inthere.

 

Back on your WoW remarks.. i predict a revival of WoW if they go F2P, everyone currently not doing so because its a subbed game, will go back just to see what has changed and was added since they left, if it was only so for getting the feeling.  And as we have seen in many other games F2P made a good revival, raised the income, and in the end added even more subs.... So if WoW goes the F2P with optional sub route, then we certainly will see a revival..

 

Subs currently only works if a game is clearly better then the competition, that phase for WoW has been long passed... 

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  Wildaboutwildstar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/26/13
Posts: 43

 
OP  7/28/13 11:10:51 AM#43
Originally posted by Gormogon

So OP's assessment is that "WildStar has only one weapon type per class, therefore one weapon type per class is better for WildStar."   That's awesome...

 

The devs should just tell the truth, which is likely that it was a design decision stemming from aping another action combat game (TERA) and be done with it.  This "You don't understand, we had to do it this way; if we did it the way you want it would ruin everything!" garbage is insulting to the intelligence of everybody who isn't coked out on the game. 

 

Especially in this case, where you're trying to argue for a visual enhancement over an opportunity for greater gameplay diversity and complexity in a game that mostly downplays the "gamer pr0n" aspect because it's supposedly the gameplay that really matters.

 

For the record: I support the one-weapon-per-class concept for WildStar.  It doesn't bother me in TERA where the argument for its use is that it reinforces a certain identity for every class.   On the other hand, GW2 has weapons spread out over a bunch of classes and nobody at present will successfully argue that two classes in GW2 play the same.

 

So yeah, people are going to need to deal with it, but the "You're wrong for wanting more weapon options; a single weapon per class is better" argument is ridiculous.

 

Insulting your intelligence? Lol, no. 

The LAS has nothing to do with this decision...

 

More weapons doesn't yield more diversity unless there are skills designed specifically for those weapons.  That was never in the cards, so adding more is merely cosmetic.  Which has already been proven false, and you have the other issues I posted in OP to consider.

 

You didn't refute any point layed out, but merely claimed the arguments as ridiculous.

Something here is ridiculous alright....

  Thane

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/14/03
Posts: 1961

I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.

7/28/13 11:12:42 AM#44
Originally posted by Wildaboutwildstar
Well I am here to tell you it is!

 

I continually hear people raise this complaint about WS. Though, the only point these people are able to raise is that other games, such as WoW, have multiple weapons available per class. As if that in itself is some kind of argument. Hint, its not. But, we will pretend it is, and this is my rebuttal.

 

 

 

It works in WoW, because multiple classes can use the same weapons. That isn't the case in WS though! For instance, a 1h axe in WoW can be used by an enhancement shaman, a rogue, or a fury warrior. In WS though, it could be used by the stalker, but who else? No one! All the classes use unique types of weapons, so creating more is pointless! Furthermore, could you imagine how cluttered the loot tables of bosses would be if the devs had to include multiple weapons for each class?

It could simply never work!

 

What if you like tons of animations?

In fact, the Devs already commented on this, the more weapon types the less animations per weapon.  So, having 1 weapon allows them to have more unique animations in total.

one word: diversity.

 

people do not wanna play a champion when playing mmos, that's what mobas are for. in mmos (even tho they took our the RPG), we want to be able to have at least sth that is not used by EVERYONE.

imo quite simple.

"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  Wildaboutwildstar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/26/13
Posts: 43

 
OP  7/28/13 11:14:11 AM#45
Originally posted by DOGMA1138
That's a very stupid response, and i don't even think that quote is accurate, you can have 300 weapon types with 30 attack animations per weapon, and you can have 3 weapon types with a single attack animation.

 

As for the whole single weapon issue, it is an issue and depending on your own preferences it might be a show stopper or it might be an issue. At any time that a game takes customization options away from the player it's bad. Now that said pretty much every "Themepark" MMO these days is based around class abilities which are not bound or affected by the type of weapon you use. In WoW A hunter with a bow will behave just as a hunter with a gun, a warrior with a 2H axe will act just like a warrior with a 2H sword. But and that's a big but I've played a hunter and i didn't used guns even if they were BIS because  i hated the look(well sound) and feel of them compared to bows.
 

That said there are plenty of customization options even with 1 weapon per class, granted that the weapons could be customized sufficiently. SWTOR did it quite well, for better and for worse SWTOR had quite good customization options considering every class was locked into pretty much a single type of weapons.

Stupid?  It is paraphrasing from the devs.  They said it, and it is true.  Your rebuttal is what is 'stupid'.  In a world with unlimited resources, then sure you could have near infinite animations.  But that just isn't the case!  Please insert some reality in your thought process.

WS is aiming at a niche market.

If you want to Roleplay instead of gearing your character properly, then that is fine.  Just don't expect to make it far in raids in WS with that type of attitude.

 

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
Originally posted by R.I.O.T

I'd have to agree with tkreep..

The option and freedom to actually choose which weapons you want to use, is always a positive thing imo.

Positives:

1. Different looks

2. Variety of roles to play

3. Option to change / Freedom to change

Negatives:

1. Complicated

"The Secret World" MMO does this quite well, in giving me the options / freedom to choose weapons (class / roles).

 

To me your negative is a possitive.... as an old time rpg i want MMos with more choices and more depth...

You literally could not be more wrong.   You think you get more choices, but in actuality you get 0 choices.  A choice indicates that you choose one thing over others.  There are no choices in TSW, because you can pick anything at any time.

The game is based around complete skill freedom, just like those other games mentioned. In ESO a very small portion of stuff is blocked behind your class, but not much. This sounds great, but there are some major flaws. In the end there is almost no incentive to ever make more than one character. The game completely lacks variety as cookie cutter specs emerge, and everyone merely copies them. There is no sense of uniqueness for the same reason. People like to feel special, and different, but in a world of monotonicity everything is gray. It is an absolutely horrid way to do skill systems imo.

  Nitth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/29/10
Posts: 3446

Magic Propels my Rolly Chair.

7/28/13 11:52:43 AM#46

Funny. Ive seen this posted on multiple websites..


TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  zeeshzun

Novice Member

Joined: 7/23/13
Posts: 15

7/28/13 12:15:50 PM#47
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
Originally posted by Chrisbox
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by Chrisbox
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by Chrisbox
[mod edit]
[mod edit]

[mod edit]

[mod edit]

 

[mod edit]

[mod edit]

Well actually wildsar openly admits they are trying to copy the succes formula of WoW...  which does not mean that the game will be an exact copy of WoW, far from that, being fresh and orriginal is one of the keyfeatures of WoW, as that allowed them to turn casual gamers that never played an MMo before into MMo addicts.

The Graphics are an other example of where both Wildstar and WoW are on the same track.. and there are many more.

If they are going to copy the success of WoW, they need to start by giving us more options, or even a similar amount of options, not less. I just can't believe it when I hear about their inability to create proper animations as a reason to only have one weapon per class. I also can't imagine how they would be unable to create more weapon models if each class is able to use multiple weapons. Are their modelers and animators overworked? Hire some Koreans imo.

  Wildaboutwildstar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/26/13
Posts: 43

 
OP  7/28/13 12:24:44 PM#48
Originally posted by zeeshzun

Well actually wildsar openly admits they are trying to copy the succes formula of WoW...  which does not mean that the game will be an exact copy of WoW, far from that, being fresh and orriginal is one of the keyfeatures of WoW, as that allowed them to turn casual gamers that never played an MMo before into MMo addicts.

The Graphics are an other example of where both Wildstar and WoW are on the same track.. and there are many more.

If they are going to copy the success of WoW, they need to start by giving us more options, or even a similar amount of options, not less. I just can't believe it when I hear about their inability to create proper animations as a reason to only have one weapon per class. I also can't imagine how they would be unable to create more weapon models if each class is able to use multiple weapons. Are their modelers and animators overworked? Hire some Koreans imo.

Weapons in and of themselves in a game are aesthetic and do not affect game-play whatsoever, unless programmed to.  So theoretically you could just program the class itself to be more customizable without the guise of a "weapon" causing the customizability.

  zeeshzun

Novice Member

Joined: 7/23/13
Posts: 15

7/28/13 1:24:39 PM#49
Originally posted by Wildaboutwildstar
Originally posted by zeeshzun

Well actually wildsar openly admits they are trying to copy the succes formula of WoW...  which does not mean that the game will be an exact copy of WoW, far from that, being fresh and orriginal is one of the keyfeatures of WoW, as that allowed them to turn casual gamers that never played an MMo before into MMo addicts.

The Graphics are an other example of where both Wildstar and WoW are on the same track.. and there are many more.

If they are going to copy the success of WoW, they need to start by giving us more options, or even a similar amount of options, not less. I just can't believe it when I hear about their inability to create proper animations as a reason to only have one weapon per class. I also can't imagine how they would be unable to create more weapon models if each class is able to use multiple weapons. Are their modelers and animators overworked? Hire some Koreans imo.

Weapons in and of themselves in a game are aesthetic and do not affect game-play whatsoever, unless programmed to.  So theoretically you could just program the class itself to be more customizable without the guise of a "weapon" causing the customizability.

So, because the devs didn't have the foresight to properly program a game to utilize multiple weapon types per class, we should not even discuss how it is lazy or puts us off from the game? Why oversimplify things? Regardless of how many different types of lazers my character can shoot out of his butt, I am not going to be happy using a 2 handed sword for the entirety of my character's life. Once I get the (7?) LAS skills that best suit my playstyle, I am not going to be making many changes at that point. It's going to feel like GW2, minus the multiple weapon options.

  User Deleted
7/28/13 1:34:08 PM#50
Originally posted by Gormogon

So OP's assessment is that "WildStar has only one weapon type per class, therefore one weapon type per class is better for WildStar."   That's awesome...

 

The devs should just tell the truth, which is likely that it was a design decision stemming from aping another action combat game (TERA) and be done with it.  This "You don't understand, we had to do it this way; if we did it the way you want it would ruin everything!" garbage is insulting to the intelligence of everybody who isn't coked out on the game. 

 

Especially in this case, where you're trying to argue for a visual enhancement over an opportunity for greater gameplay diversity and complexity in a game that mostly downplays the "gamer pr0n" aspect because it's supposedly the gameplay that really matters.

 

For the record: I support the one-weapon-per-class concept for WildStar.  It doesn't bother me in TERA where the argument for its use is that it reinforces a certain identity for every class.   On the other hand, GW2 has weapons spread out over a bunch of classes and nobody at present will successfully argue that two classes in GW2 play the same.

 

So yeah, people are going to need to deal with it, but the "You're wrong for wanting more weapon options; a single weapon per class is better" argument is ridiculous.

+1

  DOGMA1138

Novice Member

Joined: 8/25/11
Posts: 477

7/28/13 1:48:41 PM#51
Originally posted by Wildaboutwildstar
Originally posted by DOGMA1138
That's a very stupid response, and i don't even think that quote is accurate, you can have 300 weapon types with 30 attack animations per weapon, and you can have 3 weapon types with a single attack animation.

 

As for the whole single weapon issue, it is an issue and depending on your own preferences it might be a show stopper or it might be an issue. At any time that a game takes customization options away from the player it's bad. Now that said pretty much every "Themepark" MMO these days is based around class abilities which are not bound or affected by the type of weapon you use. In WoW A hunter with a bow will behave just as a hunter with a gun, a warrior with a 2H axe will act just like a warrior with a 2H sword. But and that's a big but I've played a hunter and i didn't used guns even if they were BIS because  i hated the look(well sound) and feel of them compared to bows.
 

That said there are plenty of customization options even with 1 weapon per class, granted that the weapons could be customized sufficiently. SWTOR did it quite well, for better and for worse SWTOR had quite good customization options considering every class was locked into pretty much a single type of weapons.

Stupid?  It is paraphrasing from the devs.  They said it, and it is true.  Your rebuttal is what is 'stupid'.  In a world with unlimited resources, then sure you could have near infinite animations.  But that just isn't the case!  Please insert some reality in your thought process.

WS is aiming at a niche market.

If you want to Roleplay instead of gearing your character properly, then that is fine.  Just don't expect to make it far in raids in WS with that type of attitude.

.

I'm not sure if you know what paraphrasing means, quoting out of context is not paraphrasing. Until you actually provide a citation for that "quote" I'll keep calling it bullshit. If you also think that attack animations require some large investment of resources you delude yourself, this is something an intern at the animation department can do in a day, and in most cases what actually ends up happening.

Where did i even mentioned rule playing? every one role plays to one extent or another, plenty of people complain when an armor set looks ugly or when the animation or graphics of a spell don't look good.

WS is not aiming to be a niche game, this isn't how developers work, and most importantly this isn't how publishers work.

Considering the scope and scale of the game, as well as the talent involved this would be one of the most expensive MMO's produced in recent years. I doubt it's any where near the 300M SWTOR price tag, but it's in the 120-150M range. No one in their right mind will ever say yeah I'll invest 150M $ for a niche product which you can't charge more than market value for, heck considering the MMO market today you won't be able to charge that for long if at all.

Hardcore raiding is not niche, it's not some reclusive crowed, it's the manifestation of the environment produced by WoW in it's first couple of years. Sure EQ1 had harder competition before the instanced content that required phone-lists and camping, but much of that content was either solo content or small group content. WoW was really the first game that required an instrumental effort in order to raid, especially on any "competitive" level either on a server or global scale.

When it took the effort of an entire guild to gear tanks, healers, gather reagents for potions and other consumables, resist gear and when raiding sessions could take 6-8 hours it forced people to become hard core raiders. And for the most part that what kept WoW on the map, the epic feel of achievement(with out getting a popup to stroke your ego) and the awe that the majority of the people on the server had for the 1% was something that fueled the game for years.

Will WS manage to replicate it? honestly i doubt it, while it will have 40man raids it will also have achievements for doing nothing than talking to some guy or killing a single non elite mob.

P.S.

My attitude is just fine, for some reason i have a feeling that i achieved a "bit" more than you did in WoW.

Ascent... :)

 

  Purutzil

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 2908

The Critical Hit Pretzel!

7/28/13 1:51:09 PM#52
I just find it silly honest to limit it to 1 weapon or restrict stuff you do to one weapon. It just always bothered me when games did it. I get it, saves resources not having to do animations for each weapon, but really I just like the have varied weapons. It only helps to further the feel of progression like you actually get something new instead of just varient #4 of 1,000 claw or such and such. This only becomes MORE prominent if its also cutting back on variations of what classes can do, granted thats more based on skills then the weapon.
  Fadervor

Novice Member

Joined: 8/07/09
Posts: 27

The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other peoples money.

7/29/13 10:18:42 AM#53
Originally posted by Roxtarr
Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by Wildaboutwildstar
Well I am here to tell you it is!

 

I continually hear people raise this complaint about WS. Though, the only point these people are able to raise is that other games, such as WoW, have multiple weapons available per class. As if that in itself is some kind of argument. Hint, its not. But, we will pretend it is, and this is my rebuttal.

 

 

 

It works in WoW, because multiple classes can use the same weapons. That isn't the case in WS though! For instance, a 1h axe in WoW can be used by an enhancement shaman, a rogue, or a fury warrior. In WS though, it could be used by the stalker, but who else? No one! All the classes use unique types of weapons, so creating more is pointless! Furthermore, could you imagine how cluttered the loot tables of bosses would be if the devs had to include multiple weapons for each class?

It could simply never work!

 

What if you like tons of animations?

In fact, the Devs already commented on this, the more weapon types the less animations per weapon.  So, having 1 weapon allows them to have more unique animations in total.

 You obviously haven't been playing MMO's for long. It's only until recently that many games have limited the available weapons to a single class. A few games like EQ EQ2 AO WoW and etc all allow multiple types of weapons for their classes and it's the players choice of which weapon(s) they want to use. Limiting the games of features is bad and you're only going to see less and less with the way you think.

 

Yes, it is obvious he has no clue what MMO combat can and should be about, pretty much a console player and won't grasp why one weapon is not only a bad thing, but thinks this is a positive feature instead of lazy game design.

 

Gotta chime in. What an insulting assumption. To assume one weapon per class is lazy design is the kind of arm-chair nit-picking that drives the MMO community into the cynical and negative place it has become. I understand that it's become the norm to call devs lazy and make baseless statements based on zero experience or research, but the guy actually did his homework and the devs have clearly stated their case on the matter will full reasoning. Agree or disagree with the DEISGN choice, but to write them off is lazy shows no research on the subject, which is in fact, by definition, lazy posting.

I agree, and when I look back at other MMO's did having a different weapon even make a difference in how I played ? nope. Neither in GW2, Wow, NWN, TSW, Aion. A ccaster casts spells, he doesnt even use the staff/whatever for anything else but show/stats. Basically I am ok with WS not having multiple weapons to choose from. From what Ive seen there are different looks to the weapons and that is fine by me. I would like though in an expansion that weapons could give certain effects, like chance of stun, extra small attack/ spell etc. I like proc kinda things as it makes the combat special.

  Gishgeron

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/05/07
Posts: 1297

7/29/13 10:26:20 AM#54

  You guys are all pretty crazy.  Look, I think most of you have fallen WAY victim to the illusion of choice.  Outside of very specific examples (GW2) this "variety" you speak of does not exist.  The difference in weapons is almost completely cosmetic and even then there are usually one specific weapon that is at the top of the pile for each class in nearly every game.  Otherwise I'd be seeing way more weapon diversity in WoW than I do. 

  GW2 had the benefit of having skills tied to weapon use and the changing of that changed the entire way a class was played.  For the rest of the MMO world there is no change beyond cosmetic. 

  djazzy

Novice Member

Joined: 6/20/05
Posts: 3623

7/29/13 10:31:36 AM#55

Gishgeron,

TSW also changes depending on your weapon choice.

But yeah, I said it before in this thread earlier and it seems to have gone ignored. Weapons are pretty much cosmetic stat sticks in the majority of mmos.

Now I can understand wanting a different aesthetic with different weapons, and I agree with that, but other than that there is no real argument. The only differences in most mmos are between melee and ranged weapons (if the class allows any difference in the first place).

  sketocafe

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/19/11
Posts: 679

7/29/13 10:33:37 AM#56
It wasn't a huge thing, but one of the many reasons I quit playing wow was because blizzard got very lazy with their  gear design for classes.  Hunters in TBC had options with weapon enchants to go for two-handers like axes and polearms with a lot of agility or dual wielding axes or a few daggers. Now it's nothing but polearms. In wrath, blizzard had fast swords and one handed axes in loot tables and at least one fast fist ( i think) so you could find rogues using swords, daggers, axes or fists. Now it's just daggers. 
These things ware just stat sticks, but I was happy to have options to aim for, and less than pleased when the reduced resources Blizz put into the game began to show in this area.
 
  Tinybina

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/28/04
Posts: 2124

7/29/13 2:01:20 PM#57

I hate games where everyone pretty much looks the same.. Even if you can put different colors on your gear, you will pretty much all look the same.

 

Major turn off.  Sad that my house will be able to look completely different from anyone else's.  While I will look like a freaking clone...

------------------------------
You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith

  Gormogon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 166

7/29/13 4:06:06 PM#58
Originally posted by Fadervor

I agree, and when I look back at other MMO's did having a different weapon even make a difference in how I played ? nope. Neither in GW2, Wow, NWN, TSW, Aion. A caster casts spells (um, duh???)

 

 

You're allowed to prefer one weapon per class, but you're completely full of rubbish with respect to GW2 and TSW.

 

First of all, TSW doesn't even have classes.  Your weapon defines your potential set of abilities.  If you have a caster weapon, then you're a caster (and even here an argument can be made about different playstyles depending on the specific caster weapon).  BUT you also have the option to use a machine gun, hammer, shot gun, katana, dual pistols, and fist weapons.  They all offer different styles of play and you can play all of them on a single character. Suggesting they're stacks sticks is ridiculous.

 

In GW2 the weapons themselves often function similarly across different classes, but warriors can also use rifles and bows in addition to traditional melee weapons.  Thieves can use shortbows to fight multiple opponents from range, while playing with a longsword and pistol is very little like the backstab-based dagger/dagger play.    Bow rangers and greatsword or longsword rangers play completely differently and both are effective.  For necromancer casting ground-targeted marks with a staff is nothing like the direct condition application with scepter.   The up-close and personal dagger/X or dagger/dagger style on a necro or elementalist (where it is one of the most effective builds in the game) is a completely different playstyle than standing back with a ranged weapon.  If you want to deal melee damage wielding daggers instead of spell damage, you can do that too.... it's called playing a thief.

 

I never say this about anybody because I find it obnoxious, but if "having a different weapon didn't even make a difference" in how you played in GW2 and TSW, then you either didn't play past the first few hours of the game or you're a horrible player.

 

Having multiple weapon options certainly can be a superficial choice.  I would never argue otherwise.  But, having played both of them, TSW and GW2 (along with FFXIV:ARR) are the absolute two worst examples I can think of to support that point.  The. Worst. 

 

WoW's (as you cited) ranged casters on the other hand are probably the perfect example of the superficiality of weapon choice.  Whether you're using a staff, dagger, sword, or mace, your set of abilities remain exactly the same ... literally nothing changes about your abilities or the way you play the class.  They are truly stat sticks.

 

GW2 shows that WoW's way is not the only way to go with weapons, so the superficiality of choice, while being true in individual cases, is not at all some universal law.  It's how the developer employs choice that matters.  Do most developers do it poorly?  Maybe.  Would Carbine have done it poorly?  Who knows?

 

One of the issues, I think, is that there are some players who merely want a cosmetic option.  They don't even want the abilities to change (or don't care), they want a greataxe instead of a greatsword, or daggers instead of claws, or a rifle instead of dual pistols.  It's here where I diverge from them, because I think having abilities (and animations) specific to a weapon (ie "Fists of Fury" for claws or "Rapid Shot" for pistols or "Skewer" for greatsword) can definitely reinforce the player's connection with his character. 

 

Of course, no outside force stopped Carbine from coming up with a second weapon option with some unique abilities for each class -- of which their are only six -- that made the weapons feel different and therefore added diversity to the player's combat experience.  Is it a lot of additional work between creating the weapons, animating them, inventing abilities, and balancing them?  Absolutely.  Would it have been worth it?   It would have been to some people.  To Carbine?  Nobody can honestly say one way or another in this particular case.  Not even Carbine knows to what extent the lack of choice in this area will, after, a time, contribute to players leaving who might otherwise have stayed, or encourage people not to pick up the game to begin with.

 

We can all come up with many many examples where, if the option is between more content (or more story/more graphical detail/etc.) and more player choice, you absolutely sacrifice the former.  If WildStar had just two classes but four more zones, we're not even here discussing this because the game wouldn't even be on most people's radar.  If going with eight human races with different skin tones allows you to make six more dungeons, in a game like WildStar you sacrifice the dungeons to offer Chua, Aurin, Granok, Mechari, Draken, and Mordesh.  So yes, there are tradeoffs, but plenty of tradeoffs are absolutely worth it, both to many players and even sometimes to the developer too.

 

Again, not saying additional weapon options would indisputably be worth it in WildStar's case, but the existence of examples where it is not used effectively doesn't establish some universal truth about having additional weapon options ... and flat out misrepresenting how weapon choice affects combat in GW2 or TSW doesn't help.

  Fadervor

Novice Member

Joined: 8/07/09
Posts: 27

The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other peoples money.

7/30/13 3:47:40 AM#59

I have played both, and to me it all ended up in having the same abilities. Lets take GW2 for instance, where if i had one weapon i shoot fire and have a couple of aoe abilities maybe some cc. Another time I would have frost and shoot frost and have a couple of aoe abilities maybe some cc. Smae thing with huge axes, swords etc. To me it didnt really change the way I played, I ended up killing my foes one way or another with out a huge change in flavour. In the end it was all up to having different graphics in doing so.

TSW, there the weapon would matter in regards to if you were tank, dps or had healing capabilities. Again to me it didnt matter, I pressed buttons none the less, and hitting a mob with a sword or with fist weapons were much the same only difference lay in how fast they died or how many times I had to heal myself due to killing too slowly. Now granted riffels had yu running about more than melee weapons did.

At the end of the day, the games are all about killing your opponent(s) if I do that with one wapon or have choices between multiple doesnt really matter. As stated above the choice was more of an illusion than actually having any true meaning to me atleast.

  Nitth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/29/10
Posts: 3446

Magic Propels my Rolly Chair.

7/30/13 6:58:13 AM#60


Originally posted by Fadervor
I have played both, and to me it all ended up in having the same abilities. Lets take GW2 for instance, where if i had one weapon i shoot fire and have a couple of aoe abilities maybe some cc. Another time I would have frost and shoot frost and have a couple of aoe abilities maybe some cc. Smae thing with huge axes, swords etc. To me it didnt really change the way I played, I ended up killing my foes one way or another with out a huge change in flavour. In the end it was all up to having different graphics in doing so.

TSW, there the weapon would matter in regards to if you were tank, dps or had healing capabilities. Again to me it didnt matter, I pressed buttons none the less, and hitting a mob with a sword or with fist weapons were much the same only difference lay in how fast they died or how many times I had to heal myself due to killing too slowly. Now granted riffels had yu running about more than melee weapons did.

At the end of the day, the games are all about killing your opponent(s) if I do that with one wapon or have choices between multiple doesnt really matter. As stated above the choice was more of an illusion than actually having any true meaning to me atleast.


Why not give everyone a stick to run around with then?


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