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WildStar 

General Discussion  » Why is one weapon not enough?

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73 posts found
  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19103

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

7/27/13 6:40:00 PM#21
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by Wildaboutwildstar
Well I am here to tell you it is!

 

I continually hear people raise this complaint about WS. Though, the only point these people are able to raise is that other games, such as WoW, have multiple weapons available per class. As if that in itself is some kind of argument. Hint, its not. But, we will pretend it is, and this is my rebuttal.

 

 

 

It works in WoW, because multiple classes can use the same weapons. That isn't the case in WS though! For instance, a 1h axe in WoW can be used by an enhancement shaman, a rogue, or a fury warrior. In WS though, it could be used by the stalker, but who else? No one! All the classes use unique types of weapons, so creating more is pointless! Furthermore, could you imagine how cluttered the loot tables of bosses would be if the devs had to include multiple weapons for each class?

It could simply never work!

 

What if you like tons of animations?

In fact, the Devs already commented on this, the more weapon types the less animations per weapon.  So, having 1 weapon allows them to have more unique animations in total.

 You obviously haven't been playing MMO's for long. It's only until recently that many games have limited the available weapons to a single class. A few games like EQ EQ2 AO WoW and etc all allow multiple types of weapons for their classes and it's the players choice of which weapon(s) they want to use. Limiting the games of features is bad and you're only going to see less and less with the way you think.

 

Yes, it is obvious he has no clue what MMO combat can and should be about, pretty much a console player and won't grasp why one weapon is not only a bad thing, but thinks this is a positive feature instead of lazy game design.

 

Arrogant, Condescending, Dismissive, Elitist, you speak as if these are bad things?
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  Mtibbs1989

Elite Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2728

7/27/13 10:10:52 PM#22
Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by Wildaboutwildstar
Well I am here to tell you it is!

 

I continually hear people raise this complaint about WS. Though, the only point these people are able to raise is that other games, such as WoW, have multiple weapons available per class. As if that in itself is some kind of argument. Hint, its not. But, we will pretend it is, and this is my rebuttal.

 

 

 

It works in WoW, because multiple classes can use the same weapons. That isn't the case in WS though! For instance, a 1h axe in WoW can be used by an enhancement shaman, a rogue, or a fury warrior. In WS though, it could be used by the stalker, but who else? No one! All the classes use unique types of weapons, so creating more is pointless! Furthermore, could you imagine how cluttered the loot tables of bosses would be if the devs had to include multiple weapons for each class?

It could simply never work!

 

What if you like tons of animations?

In fact, the Devs already commented on this, the more weapon types the less animations per weapon.  So, having 1 weapon allows them to have more unique animations in total.

 You obviously haven't been playing MMO's for long. It's only until recently that many games have limited the available weapons to a single class. A few games like EQ EQ2 AO WoW and etc all allow multiple types of weapons for their classes and it's the players choice of which weapon(s) they want to use. Limiting the games of features is bad and you're only going to see less and less with the way you think.

 

Yes, it is obvious he has no clue what MMO combat can and should be about, pretty much a console player and won't grasp why one weapon is not only a bad thing, but thinks this is a positive feature instead of lazy game design.

 

 Well, I wouldn't even consider him a console gamer either. Because there are many console games that also utilize the ability for players to wield many different weapons. God of War, Assassins creed, call of duty, gears of war, and even older games like castlevania share this feature.


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  User Deleted
7/27/13 10:22:43 PM#23
Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by Wildaboutwildstar
Well I am here to tell you it is!

 

I continually hear people raise this complaint about WS. Though, the only point these people are able to raise is that other games, such as WoW, have multiple weapons available per class. As if that in itself is some kind of argument. Hint, its not. But, we will pretend it is, and this is my rebuttal.

 

 

 

It works in WoW, because multiple classes can use the same weapons. That isn't the case in WS though! For instance, a 1h axe in WoW can be used by an enhancement shaman, a rogue, or a fury warrior. In WS though, it could be used by the stalker, but who else? No one! All the classes use unique types of weapons, so creating more is pointless! Furthermore, could you imagine how cluttered the loot tables of bosses would be if the devs had to include multiple weapons for each class?

It could simply never work!

 

What if you like tons of animations?

In fact, the Devs already commented on this, the more weapon types the less animations per weapon.  So, having 1 weapon allows them to have more unique animations in total.

 You obviously haven't been playing MMO's for long. It's only until recently that many games have limited the available weapons to a single class. A few games like EQ EQ2 AO WoW and etc all allow multiple types of weapons for their classes and it's the players choice of which weapon(s) they want to use. Limiting the games of features is bad and you're only going to see less and less with the way you think.

 

Yes, it is obvious he has no clue what MMO combat can and should be about, pretty much a console player and won't grasp why one weapon is not only a bad thing, but thinks this is a positive feature instead of lazy game design.

 

Gotta chime in. What an insulting assumption. To assume one weapon per class is lazy design is the kind of arm-chair nit-picking that drives the MMO community into the cynical and negative place it has become. I understand that it's become the norm to call devs lazy and make baseless statements based on zero experience or research, but the guy actually did his homework and the devs have clearly stated their case on the matter will full reasoning. Agree or disagree with the DEISGN choice, but to write them off is lazy shows no research on the subject, which is in fact, by definition, lazy posting.

  jimdandy26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 559

7/27/13 10:27:06 PM#24
Originally posted by Roxtarr

Gotta chime in. What an insulting assumption. To assume one weapon per class is lazy design is the kind of arm-chair nit-picking that drives the MMO community into the cynical and negative place it has become. I understand that it's become the norm to call devs lazy and make baseless statements based on zero experience or research, but the guy actually did his homework and the devs have clearly stated their case on the matter will full reasoning. Agree or disagree with the DEISGN choice, but to write them off is lazy shows no research on the subject, which is in fact, by definition, lazy posting.

Agreed. I am siding with the devs on this one. I much prefer animations that look right than have different weapons that I am going to get pigeonholed into later anyway.

I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  Mtibbs1989

Elite Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2728

7/27/13 10:31:58 PM#25
Originally posted by Roxtarr
Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by Wildaboutwildstar
Well I am here to tell you it is!

 

I continually hear people raise this complaint about WS. Though, the only point these people are able to raise is that other games, such as WoW, have multiple weapons available per class. As if that in itself is some kind of argument. Hint, its not. But, we will pretend it is, and this is my rebuttal.

 

 

 

It works in WoW, because multiple classes can use the same weapons. That isn't the case in WS though! For instance, a 1h axe in WoW can be used by an enhancement shaman, a rogue, or a fury warrior. In WS though, it could be used by the stalker, but who else? No one! All the classes use unique types of weapons, so creating more is pointless! Furthermore, could you imagine how cluttered the loot tables of bosses would be if the devs had to include multiple weapons for each class?

It could simply never work!

 

What if you like tons of animations?

In fact, the Devs already commented on this, the more weapon types the less animations per weapon.  So, having 1 weapon allows them to have more unique animations in total.

 You obviously haven't been playing MMO's for long. It's only until recently that many games have limited the available weapons to a single class. A few games like EQ EQ2 AO WoW and etc all allow multiple types of weapons for their classes and it's the players choice of which weapon(s) they want to use. Limiting the games of features is bad and you're only going to see less and less with the way you think.

 

Yes, it is obvious he has no clue what MMO combat can and should be about, pretty much a console player and won't grasp why one weapon is not only a bad thing, but thinks this is a positive feature instead of lazy game design.

 

Gotta chime in. What an insulting assumption. To assume one weapon per class is lazy design is the kind of arm-chair nit-picking that drives the MMO community into the cynical and negative place it has become. I understand that it's become the norm to call devs lazy and make baseless statements based on zero experience or research, but the guy actually did his homework and the devs have clearly stated their case on the matter will full reasoning. Agree or disagree with the DEISGN choice, but to write them off is lazy shows no research on the subject, which is in fact, by definition, lazy posting.

 Zero experience or research? Do you have any idea how much content and customization have been utterly removed from the MMO genre? No ability to apply stats, smaller world, less item selection, little to no death penalties, less overall content, no grind, no RPing, less dungeons, little to no raids, this MMO genre has significantly less content now than it has ever had before. I believe you're out of place and have no understanding of how little you're getting for you money these days.


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  User Deleted
7/27/13 10:36:25 PM#26
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by Roxtarr
Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by Wildaboutwildstar
Well I am here to tell you it is!

 

I continually hear people raise this complaint about WS. Though, the only point these people are able to raise is that other games, such as WoW, have multiple weapons available per class. As if that in itself is some kind of argument. Hint, its not. But, we will pretend it is, and this is my rebuttal.

 

 

 

It works in WoW, because multiple classes can use the same weapons. That isn't the case in WS though! For instance, a 1h axe in WoW can be used by an enhancement shaman, a rogue, or a fury warrior. In WS though, it could be used by the stalker, but who else? No one! All the classes use unique types of weapons, so creating more is pointless! Furthermore, could you imagine how cluttered the loot tables of bosses would be if the devs had to include multiple weapons for each class?

It could simply never work!

 

What if you like tons of animations?

In fact, the Devs already commented on this, the more weapon types the less animations per weapon.  So, having 1 weapon allows them to have more unique animations in total.

 You obviously haven't been playing MMO's for long. It's only until recently that many games have limited the available weapons to a single class. A few games like EQ EQ2 AO WoW and etc all allow multiple types of weapons for their classes and it's the players choice of which weapon(s) they want to use. Limiting the games of features is bad and you're only going to see less and less with the way you think.

 

Yes, it is obvious he has no clue what MMO combat can and should be about, pretty much a console player and won't grasp why one weapon is not only a bad thing, but thinks this is a positive feature instead of lazy game design.

 

Gotta chime in. What an insulting assumption. To assume one weapon per class is lazy design is the kind of arm-chair nit-picking that drives the MMO community into the cynical and negative place it has become. I understand that it's become the norm to call devs lazy and make baseless statements based on zero experience or research, but the guy actually did his homework and the devs have clearly stated their case on the matter will full reasoning. Agree or disagree with the DEISGN choice, but to write them off is lazy shows no research on the subject, which is in fact, by definition, lazy posting.

 Zero experience or research? Do you have any idea how much content and customization have been utterly removed from the MMO genre? No ability to apply stats, smaller world, less item selection, little to no death penalties, less overall content, no grind, no RPing, less dungeons, little to no raids, this MMO genre has significantly less content now than it has ever had before. I believe you're out of place and have no understanding of how little you're getting for you money these days.

Saying that Carbine made the design choice of one weapon per class was a 'lazy' design choice is baseless incorrect because they've clearly stated their design reasons behind it. It wasn't an issue of laziness, but of preference for a multitude of reasons they have clearly stated.

Your argument about a number of issues that the MMO genre has, and many of your points are valid but it sounds like you're using WildStar as a whipping post for the devolution of the genre. Your anger is pointed in the wrong direction.

  Mtibbs1989

Elite Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2728

7/27/13 10:38:24 PM#27
Originally posted by Roxtarr
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by Roxtarr
Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by Wildaboutwildstar
Well I am here to tell you it is!

 

I continually hear people raise this complaint about WS. Though, the only point these people are able to raise is that other games, such as WoW, have multiple weapons available per class. As if that in itself is some kind of argument. Hint, its not. But, we will pretend it is, and this is my rebuttal.

 

 

 

It works in WoW, because multiple classes can use the same weapons. That isn't the case in WS though! For instance, a 1h axe in WoW can be used by an enhancement shaman, a rogue, or a fury warrior. In WS though, it could be used by the stalker, but who else? No one! All the classes use unique types of weapons, so creating more is pointless! Furthermore, could you imagine how cluttered the loot tables of bosses would be if the devs had to include multiple weapons for each class?

It could simply never work!

 

What if you like tons of animations?

In fact, the Devs already commented on this, the more weapon types the less animations per weapon.  So, having 1 weapon allows them to have more unique animations in total.

 You obviously haven't been playing MMO's for long. It's only until recently that many games have limited the available weapons to a single class. A few games like EQ EQ2 AO WoW and etc all allow multiple types of weapons for their classes and it's the players choice of which weapon(s) they want to use. Limiting the games of features is bad and you're only going to see less and less with the way you think.

 

Yes, it is obvious he has no clue what MMO combat can and should be about, pretty much a console player and won't grasp why one weapon is not only a bad thing, but thinks this is a positive feature instead of lazy game design.

 

Gotta chime in. What an insulting assumption. To assume one weapon per class is lazy design is the kind of arm-chair nit-picking that drives the MMO community into the cynical and negative place it has become. I understand that it's become the norm to call devs lazy and make baseless statements based on zero experience or research, but the guy actually did his homework and the devs have clearly stated their case on the matter will full reasoning. Agree or disagree with the DEISGN choice, but to write them off is lazy shows no research on the subject, which is in fact, by definition, lazy posting.

 Zero experience or research? Do you have any idea how much content and customization have been utterly removed from the MMO genre? No ability to apply stats, smaller world, less item selection, little to no death penalties, less overall content, no grind, no RPing, less dungeons, little to no raids, this MMO genre has significantly less content now than it has ever had before. I believe you're out of place and have no understanding of how little you're getting for you money these days.

Saying that Carbine made the design choice of one weapon per class was a 'lazy' design choice is baseless incorrect because they've clearly stated their design reasons behind it. It wasn't an issue of laziness, but of preference for a multitude of reasons they have clearly stated.

Your argument about a number of issues that the MMO genre has, and many of your points are valid but it sounds like you're using WildStar as a whipping post for the devolution of the genre. Your anger is pointed in the wrong direction.

Hey now, I like how Wild Star is turning out from what I've seen however, I'm just pointing out the lack of everything in MMOs and this includes the lack of weapon diversity for classes.


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  jimdandy26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 559

7/27/13 10:45:02 PM#28
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989

 Zero experience or research? Do you have any idea how much content and customization have been utterly removed from the MMO genre? No ability to apply stats, smaller world, less item selection, little to no death penalties, less overall content, no grind, no RPing, less dungeons, little to no raids, this MMO genre has significantly less content now than it has ever had before. I believe you're out of place and have no understanding of how little you're getting for you money these days.

I would definately say zero research. Most of the stuff that you claim has been "lost" has been removed either due to the community asking for it and refusing to accept it back, or because players are dicks. Look at UO and how much many of "you" whine about how much freedom you lost and it was due entirely to the devs having to solve edgecases created by players.

I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  Tinybina

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/28/04
Posts: 2115

7/27/13 11:14:28 PM#29

WOW and Wildstar fan here and I can honestly tell you that I don't like being locked down to one weapon one bit!

I hate it in fact, I think that early on a lot of the characters will look the same because of it, which is another turn off.

 

I really think they will eventually have to add more weapons in game, at some point.

------------------------------
You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith

  Mtibbs1989

Elite Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2728

7/27/13 11:19:21 PM#30
You know what weapon I never see in a medieval game? Flails, seriously Medieval fantasy and no flails?


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  rojoArcueid

Elite Member

Joined: 8/13/09
Posts: 5585

"It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver". - Niccolo Machiavelli

7/27/13 11:21:28 PM#31

as long as i am not stuck with the same type of weapon from lvl 1 to infinity i am happy.

In TERA every class can only equip one weapon and nothing more. That makes my gameplay miserable. If the game breaks from the chains of generic mmos and its actually fresh and fun to play then one weapon wouldnt be too much of a deal, but if the game is generic and on top of that dont offer combat variety, im out.

 

I hope WS offers variety of weapons per class but if it doesnt then its gotta be really fun to play for me to ignore that flaw. So far i like what ive seen but until i play it i cant say much.

My endgame begins with character creation and ends with a new mmorpg

  jimdandy26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 559

7/27/13 11:22:42 PM#32
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
You know what weapon I never see in a medieval game? Flails, seriously Medieval fantasy and no flails?

Trying to get the chain to animate properly so it doesn't look like crap is really hard. Also, its an exotic weapon, which traditionally does not get much support anyway.

I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  simsalabim77

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/27/13
Posts: 617

7/27/13 11:30:39 PM#33
I like variety. Why only have an axe when I can have a rifle and a great sword too? It may be easier for the developers, but I think it's pretty dumb. 
  jimdandy26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 559

7/27/13 11:50:40 PM#34
Originally posted by simsalabim77
I like variety. Why only have an axe when I can have a rifle and a great sword too? It may be easier for the developers, but I think it's pretty dumb. 

I think its pretty dumb that a dagger and a greatsword both have the same animation, not to mention getting the same model with different colors. There is a break point where we as a playerbase cannot just demand moar, because we can't get it. Its too expensive to produce.

I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  Gatlan

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/19/13
Posts: 104

7/27/13 11:55:28 PM#35
I like a choice as well.  I also think that having only 5-6 abilities at a time is dull.  Seems like a lot of newer games are doing this.  GW2 and TSW, anyway.  Add dodging and you're still doing the same 1-5 things over and over until you switch out your abilities and do another 1-5 things over and over.
  djazzy

Novice Member

Joined: 6/20/05
Posts: 3623

7/27/13 11:57:54 PM#36
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by Chrisbox

It's so funny how you keep referencing WoW.  "It work's in WoW, it works in WoW".

Having 1 weapon just like WoW's system is just another reason I could chalk up as too why this game is another generic clone.

I anticipate this lying in the grave nice and comfy next to swtor after the hype train dies out.  

WoW has multiple weapons....

 

WoW's weapon choice is mostly cosmetic, very few skills and abilities are dependent on weapon choice.

  ignore_me

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/04/11
Posts: 2034

7/28/13 12:03:09 AM#37
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by simsalabim77
I like variety. Why only have an axe when I can have a rifle and a great sword too? It may be easier for the developers, but I think it's pretty dumb. 

I think its pretty dumb that a dagger and a greatsword both have the same animation, not to mention getting the same model with different colors. There is a break point where we as a playerbase cannot just demand moar, because we can't get it. Its too expensive to produce.

Is it too expensive to produce? Because when you lose customers because your game is a simple, repetitive piece of shit that costs more money.

What are you, some sort of short-sighted game designer who abhors work?

Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  L3nnyGp

Novice Member

Joined: 2/16/12
Posts: 147

7/28/13 12:48:20 AM#38

I'd have to agree with tkreep..

The option and freedom to actually choose which weapons you want to use, is always a positive thing imo.

Positives:

1. Different looks

2. Variety of roles to play

3. Option to change / Freedom to change

Negatives:

1. Complicated

"The Secret World" MMO does this quite well, in giving me the options / freedom to choose weapons (class / roles).

 

  Lord.Bachus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8599

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

7/28/13 1:18:48 AM#39
Originally posted by Chrisbox
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by Chrisbox
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by Chrisbox
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Well actually wildsar openly admits they are trying to copy the succes formula of WoW...  which does not mean that the game will be an exact copy of WoW, far from that, being fresh and orriginal is one of the keyfeatures of WoW, as that allowed them to turn casual gamers that never played an MMo before into MMo addicts.

The Graphics are an other example of where both Wildstar and WoW are on the same track.. and there are many more.

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  Lord.Bachus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8599

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

7/28/13 1:20:23 AM#40
Originally posted by R.I.O.T

I'd have to agree with tkreep..

The option and freedom to actually choose which weapons you want to use, is always a positive thing imo.

Positives:

1. Different looks

2. Variety of roles to play

3. Option to change / Freedom to change

Negatives:

1. Complicated

"The Secret World" MMO does this quite well, in giving me the options / freedom to choose weapons (class / roles).

 

To me your negative is a possitive.... as an old time rpg i want MMos with more choices and more depth...

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

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