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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Dispelling the myths about full PVP

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525 posts found
  Ventlus

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/22/10
Posts: 96

7/27/13 5:35:21 PM#101
Originally posted by killahh

after watching the WOW  vid on this topic where the guy with 1.9 days managed to  do every boss in the game without doing anything, it has occured to me that alot of the people that play mmorpg's have no clue.

no clue how to play, no clue about tactics, teamwork, community, and blind to anything that will affect them, is it their fault? nope not one bit, but that guy proved a point, the so called gamers nowdays in wow, are nothing like  gamers were even 5 years ago.

no wonder most people dont like pvp, can it be that most people nowdays  cant fight their way out of a wet paper bag without reading a guide on ho to do it?

/face in hands

 

 

Well i don't pvp to much i do when i want to. Have i played open world pvp games? yes and I found them tedious only reason. I'm all for facing someone 1v1 but getting ganked by someone far superior in gear/level isn't exactly the funniest thing in the world. Does that mean because many games now of day have taking certain aspects of communication away, people don't like pvp cause of this? no thats a pretty stupid statement to make, it could be perhaps some people like to get massive amount of people to clear content that is fun to them (myself). I am actually pretty good at pvp, I just don't like open world pvp where im forced into it. And i don't like unbalanced pvp games such as WoW's current state. In an MMO guildwars 1 was my favorite pvp game. 

 

And for last part for WoW currently right now it is impossible to do every boss in the game without tactics/teamwork. They have released bosses only available to hardcore modes, so your required to do tactics. And also that reasoning on teamwork/tactics corelates to pvp is also bad. You can get some of the best raiders in the world and they could suck at pvp, and you can get some of the best pvp'ers in the world and they would have a hard time clearing the content consiestent raiders do. Just some people, like hardcore pvp others like a simpler approach to pvp. For my self make a pvp game where its balanced, im not forced to do it unless i want to and i will play it that is all 

  lafaiel

Novice Member

Joined: 12/07/05
Posts: 96

7/27/13 5:39:07 PM#102
Originally posted by killahh

after watching the WOW  vid on this topic where the guy with 1.9 days managed to  do every boss in the game without doing anything, it has occured to me that alot of the people that play mmorpg's have no clue.

no clue how to play, no clue about tactics, teamwork, community, and blind to anything that will affect them, is it their fault? nope not one bit, but that guy proved a point, the so called gamers nowdays in wow, are nothing like  gamers were even 5 years ago.

no wonder most people dont like pvp, can it be that most people nowdays  cant fight their way out of a wet paper bag without reading a guide on ho to do it?

/face in hands

 I think its more the fact that people don't like having thier gameplay disrupted by people who's idea of a fun is to make sure other players don't have any.

 

 

 

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15527

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

7/27/13 5:43:08 PM#103
Originally posted by lafaiel
Originally posted by killahh

after watching the WOW  vid on this topic where the guy with 1.9 days managed to  do every boss in the game without doing anything, it has occured to me that alot of the people that play mmorpg's have no clue.

no clue how to play, no clue about tactics, teamwork, community, and blind to anything that will affect them, is it their fault? nope not one bit, but that guy proved a point, the so called gamers nowdays in wow, are nothing like  gamers were even 5 years ago.

no wonder most people dont like pvp, can it be that most people nowdays  cant fight their way out of a wet paper bag without reading a guide on ho to do it?

/face in hands

 I think its more the fact that people don't like having thier gameplay disrupted by people who's idea of a fun is to make sure other players don't have any.

 

 

This is the crux of it all.. Which I think goes back to the comment made about FFA PVP by one of the devs. "We don't support bad design" or something along those lines.

I highly doubt we'll see PVP where those who don't want to have to (after making a choice to play the game).

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Dr_Shivinski

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/12
Posts: 193

7/27/13 5:44:21 PM#104
I'm guessing most of the people who are bemoan the idea of OWPVP have no friends in game who could help them in a tight spot. The Solo Crowd who have taken a genre meant to played with alot of people and turned it into a multiplayer lobby game with solo play inbetween queues. 

Here Siggy Siggy!

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15527

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

7/27/13 5:50:27 PM#105
Originally posted by Dr_Shivinski
I'm guessing most of the people who are bemoan the idea of OWPVP have no friends in game who could help them in a tight spot. The Solo Crowd who have taken a genre meant to played with alot of people and turned it into a multiplayer lobby game with solo play inbetween queues. 

Haven't seen anyone bemoaning open world PVP, people just want the option to not PVP.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Frostvein

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/11/13
Posts: 159

7/27/13 5:53:48 PM#106
I don't get the point of this post. What are you trying to accomplish?
  CactusJack

Novice Member

Joined: 9/11/10
Posts: 400

Facta, non verba.

7/27/13 5:54:58 PM#107
Originally posted by Ventlus
Originally posted by killahh

after watching the WOW  vid on this topic where the guy with 1.9 days managed to  do every boss in the game without doing anything, it has occured to me that alot of the people that play mmorpg's have no clue.

no clue how to play, no clue about tactics, teamwork, community, and blind to anything that will affect them, is it their fault? nope not one bit, but that guy proved a point, the so called gamers nowdays in wow, are nothing like  gamers were even 5 years ago.

no wonder most people dont like pvp, can it be that most people nowdays  cant fight their way out of a wet paper bag without reading a guide on ho to do it?

/face in hands

 

 

Well i don't pvp to much i do when i want to. Have i played open world pvp games? yes and I found them tedious only reason. I'm all for facing someone 1v1 but getting ganked by someone far superior in gear/level isn't exactly the funniest thing in the world. Does that mean because many games now of day have taking certain aspects of communication away, people don't like pvp cause of this? no thats a pretty stupid statement to make, it could be perhaps some people like to get massive amount of people to clear content that is fun to them (myself). I am actually pretty good at pvp, I just don't like open world pvp where im forced into it. And i don't like unbalanced pvp games such as WoW's current state. In an MMO guildwars 1 was my favorite pvp game. 

 

And for last part for WoW currently right now it is impossible to do every boss in the game without tactics/teamwork. They have released bosses only available to hardcore modes, so your required to do tactics. And also that reasoning on teamwork/tactics corelates to pvp is also bad. You can get some of the best raiders in the world and they could suck at pvp, and you can get some of the best pvp'ers in the world and they would have a hard time clearing the content consiestent raiders do. Just some people, like hardcore pvp others like a simpler approach to pvp. For my self make a pvp game where its balanced, im not forced to do it unless i want to and i will play it that is all 

I think I have heard this close to a thousand times in game. That's probably a conservative estimate. Your first statement, in red, I would like to say..what can you do to stop this from happening or what can you do different next time? If you can put aside your anger/rage from the loss...then you are becoming a better player. 

Next, the green text. Are you a good PvP'er? But you don't like open world PvP when you are FORCED into it? Um, that's just full of contridictions. 1st lesson in PvP is to know when to run. If you're good at PvP in a game, then you know that. Open world PvP means anyone can attack at anytime...if you are playing a game that has that....then it wasn't forced...it means you weren't ready. Does that make sense? If I undock in a hauler in EvE or only have an axe and pickaxe in Darkfall....that means when I go out into the world....i'm saying to myself...Be ready to find a way out. 

You know what happens sometimes? I lose. It wasn't bc it was 3vs1 or whatever. I just lost. I fought back..I tried to run..I ducked and dodged...I bobbed and weaved and they still got me. 

The difference is I can then get some friends and we can hunt your ass down. No one is at a disadvantage when the rule of the land is..."don't undock in anything that you aren't willing to lose". 

I'm not bringing friends to help me beat you, I'm bringing them for your friends. If you don't have any, then you are going to be at a numerical disadvantage. 

Every FFA PvP game i've played it has always been about the PLAYER and not his toon/ship/gear/shinys. A players attitude is what allows the PvP seed take hold, not his hand to eye coordination, class choice, nothing else.

Playing: Rust and Battlefield 4
Hiatus: EvE
Waiting on: World of Darkness(sigh)
Interested in: The Repopulation

  CactusJack

Novice Member

Joined: 9/11/10
Posts: 400

Facta, non verba.

7/27/13 6:07:59 PM#108
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Dr_Shivinski
I'm guessing most of the people who are bemoan the idea of OWPVP have no friends in game who could help them in a tight spot. The Solo Crowd who have taken a genre meant to played with alot of people and turned it into a multiplayer lobby game with solo play inbetween queues. 

Haven't seen anyone bemoaning open world PVP, people just want the option to not PVP.

You do have an option. Draw your weapon and defend yourself or get your corpse looted. If that sounds harsh, then get more friends. OW PvP means, if you are logged in and out in the games open world, you are consenting to PvP. It's as simple as that. 

Solo play in OWPvP games is possible, but I haven't met too many long term solo players in EvE and even less in DF. It's possible to PLAY solo, but bc those companies designed  the game to actually be played with other humans...sometimes people want to play with you, whether you like it or not.

Playing: Rust and Battlefield 4
Hiatus: EvE
Waiting on: World of Darkness(sigh)
Interested in: The Repopulation

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10550

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

7/27/13 6:10:35 PM#109


Originally posted by CactusJack

Originally posted by Ventlus

Originally posted by killahh after watching the WOW  vid on this topic where the guy with 1.9 days managed to  do every boss in the game without doing anything, it has occured to me that alot of the people that play mmorpg's have no clue. no clue how to play, no clue about tactics, teamwork, community, and blind to anything that will affect them, is it their fault? nope not one bit, but that guy proved a point, the so called gamers nowdays in wow, are nothing like  gamers were even 5 years ago. no wonder most people dont like pvp, can it be that most people nowdays  cant fight their way out of a wet paper bag without reading a guide on ho to do it? /face in hands    
Well i don't pvp to much i do when i want to. Have i played open world pvp games? yes and I found them tedious only reason. I'm all for facing someone 1v1 but getting ganked by someone far superior in gear/level isn't exactly the funniest thing in the world. Does that mean because many games now of day have taking certain aspects of communication away, people don't like pvp cause of this? no thats a pretty stupid statement to make, it could be perhaps some people like to get massive amount of people to clear content that is fun to them (myself). I am actually pretty good at pvp, I just don't like open world pvp where im forced into it. And i don't like unbalanced pvp games such as WoW's current state. In an MMO guildwars 1 was my favorite pvp game.    And for last part for WoW currently right now it is impossible to do every boss in the game without tactics/teamwork. They have released bosses only available to hardcore modes, so your required to do tactics. And also that reasoning on teamwork/tactics corelates to pvp is also bad. You can get some of the best raiders in the world and they could suck at pvp, and you can get some of the best pvp'ers in the world and they would have a hard time clearing the content consiestent raiders do. Just some people, like hardcore pvp others like a simpler approach to pvp. For my self make a pvp game where its balanced, im not forced to do it unless i want to and i will play it that is all 
I think I have heard this close to a thousand times in game. That's probably a conservative estimate. Your first statement, in red, I would like to say..what can you do to stop this from happening or what can you do different next time? If you can put aside your anger/rage from the loss...then you are becoming a better player. 

Next, the green text. Are you a good PvP'er? But you don't like open world PvP when you are FORCED into it? Um, that's just full of contridictions. 1st lesson in PvP is to know when to run. If you're good at PvP in a game, then you know that. Open world PvP means anyone can attack at anytime...if you are playing a game that has that....then it wasn't forced...it means you weren't ready. Does that make sense? If I undock in a hauler in EvE or only have an axe and pickaxe in Darkfall....that means when I go out into the world....i'm saying to myself...Be ready to find a way out. 

You know what happens sometimes? I lose. It wasn't bc it was 3vs1 or whatever. I just lost. I fought back..I tried to run..I ducked and dodged...I bobbed and weaved and they still got me. 

The difference is I can then get some friends and we can hunt your ass down. No one is at a disadvantage when the rule of the land is..."don't undock in anything that you aren't willing to lose". 

I'm not bringing friends to help me beat you, I'm bringing them for your friends. If you don't have any, then you are going to be at a numerical disadvantage. 

Every FFA PvP game i've played it has always been about the PLAYER and not his toon/ship/gear/shinys. A players attitude is what allows the PvP seed take hold, not his hand to eye coordination, class choice, nothing else.




How does being killed by a player with a higher level or superior gear make someone a better player? There's no skill that can be learned to overcome the power disparity, so what exactly is happening to make the losing player a better player?

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10550

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

7/27/13 6:11:26 PM#110


Originally posted by CactusJack

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by Dr_Shivinski I'm guessing most of the people who are bemoan the idea of OWPVP have no friends in game who could help them in a tight spot. The Solo Crowd who have taken a genre meant to played with alot of people and turned it into a multiplayer lobby game with solo play inbetween queues. 
Haven't seen anyone bemoaning open world PVP, people just want the option to not PVP.
You do have an option. Draw your weapon and defend yourself or get your corpse looted. If that sounds harsh, then get more friends. OW PvP means, if you are logged in and out in the games open world, you are consenting to PvP. It's as simple as that. 

Solo play in OWPvP games is possible, but I haven't met too many long term solo players in EvE and even less in DF. It's possible to PLAY solo, but bc those companies designed  the game to actually be played with other humans...sometimes people want to play with you, whether you like it or not.




There's always the option to not play the game, which apparently a lot of players choose.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  whisperwynd

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/22/06
Posts: 1365

Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the priviledge to do so as well.

7/27/13 6:11:46 PM#111
Originally posted by CactusJack
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Dr_Shivinski
I'm guessing most of the people who are bemoan the idea of OWPVP have no friends in game who could help them in a tight spot. The Solo Crowd who have taken a genre meant to played with alot of people and turned it into a multiplayer lobby game with solo play inbetween queues. 

Haven't seen anyone bemoaning open world PVP, people just want the option to not PVP.

You do have an option. Draw your weapon and defend yourself or get your corpse looted. If that sounds harsh, then get more friends. OW PvP means, if you are logged in and out in the games open world, you are consenting to PvP. It's as simple as that. 

Solo play in OWPvP games is possible, but I haven't met too many long term solo players in EvE and even less in DF. It's possible to PLAY solo, but bc those companies designed  the game to actually be played with other humans...sometimes people want to play with you, whether you like it or not.

Pretty sure he meant reading about ppl bemoaning not wanting to play OW PvP, not those that do in fact play in one.

  NagelRitter

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/18/13
Posts: 613

7/27/13 6:16:04 PM#112
Originally posted by killahh

after watching the WOW  vid on this topic where the guy with 1.9 days managed to  do every boss in the game without doing anything, it has occured to me that alot of the people that play mmorpg's have no clue.

no clue how to play, no clue about tactics, teamwork, community, and blind to anything that will affect them, is it their fault? nope not one bit, but that guy proved a point, the so called gamers nowdays in wow, are nothing like  gamers were even 5 years ago.

no wonder most people dont like pvp, can it be that most people nowdays  cant fight their way out of a wet paper bag without reading a guide on ho to do it?

Yeah, because WoW is representative of every single PvEer out there. People people are not complaining WoW is too easy left and right.

Because ganking miners is so hard and requires so much teamwork (LOL).

You do realize that games that are pure PvP competition (Dota-likes) have more people in them than even WoW does? Now what?

Originally posted by Utinni

Why do people keep posting about having an MMORPG with FFA pvp? Most of these games are based off DnD which if I can recall noone in any campaign ive ever done was pk'd. Virtually every other genre of game now is focused on you killing other people, why insist that RPG's be the same?

Go play mobas, fps, rts, fighting game... oh wait those are all much more difficult than mmorpg pvp... coincidence? think not.

Burn.

Originally posted by CactusJack

I would like to say..what can you do to stop this from happening or what can you do different next time? If you can put aside your anger/rage from the loss...then you are becoming a better player. 

Well, no, I'll have to play in a manner that I don't enjoy. I have to go put on gear I don't want and play in a manner I don't want the role I don't want. Or, I can never do anything interesting since everything an FFA PvP game usually offers that is interesting is not in safe areas.

So the answer to your question is: make my play time unfun.

Who always wins in FFA PvP? Griefers and gankers. I don't want to be one, even if that means I have to gimp myself. That is also how life works. "The evil usually wins, unless the good are very, very careful."

Are you a good PvP'er? But you don't like open world PvP when you are FORCED into it? Um, that's just full of contridictions.

No, it's not full of contradictions. Plenty of people are pretty good at competitive PvP (Dota likes, FPS, RTS, etc.), but don't particularly care for MMO "PvP". Partially because MMO "PvP" is often shitty and unbalanced, not to mention that a proper fight is virtually impossible to find. Either a stronger guy attacks a weaker guy or he runs away.

Favorite MMO: Vanilla WoW
Currently playing: GW2, EVE
Excited for: Wildstar, maybe?

  Ramanadjinn

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/08/11
Posts: 1304

7/27/13 6:17:13 PM#113
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


How does being killed by a player with a higher level or superior gear make someone a better player? There's no skill that can be learned to overcome the power disparity, so what exactly is happening to make the losing player a better player?

 

 

In regards to losing making one a better player:

In most games it is true that nothing, or very little, can be learned from a higher level character or someone more advanced in the game just coming along and popping you.

But that isn't true for all games. 

Some games offer opportunities for newer characters, characters outfitted for non-combat activities, or solo characters, etc.. to skillfully avoid those that seek them while still accomplishing their activities they are wishing to do.  In Eve Online for example, one can get a lot accomplished in dangerous territory.  

But in Eve one will most likely go through a lot of trial and error learning how to watch their scanner properly and read and interpret what is going on around them properly to avoid getting killed by those more numerous, advanced in skill, or well equipped than they.

It doesn't apply to every game, but it isn't necessarily universally true that a lowbie getting ganked by a highbie is something that can't be helped, and that there is nothing for the lowbie to learn from it.  Eve is one example, the possibilities for game design are limitless.

 

  NagelRitter

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/18/13
Posts: 613

7/27/13 6:21:07 PM#114

The issue isn't that people can't learn to deal with gankers, or that newbies don't have a chance, or whatever, the issue is that a lot of people jsut really have 0 care for that entire paradigm, and they do not want to play games that are as heavily PvP dominated. Especially since most of these games seem to be a Game of Thrones simulator. Why can't you make a game where PvP is rare and gravely punished, like in the civilized world? Or why not make a game that simulates a society that doesn't even exist? What the hell is up with all this "grit", you don't have enough with the news?

Many people play a game to get away from grittiness not get into it, and your dog-eat-dog worlds are bland and boring to them.

Favorite MMO: Vanilla WoW
Currently playing: GW2, EVE
Excited for: Wildstar, maybe?

  CactusJack

Novice Member

Joined: 9/11/10
Posts: 400

Facta, non verba.

7/27/13 6:22:27 PM#115
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by CactusJack

Originally posted by Ventlus

Originally posted by killahh after watching the WOW  vid on this topic where the guy with 1.9 days managed to  do every boss in the game without doing anything, it has occured to me that alot of the people that play mmorpg's have no clue. no clue how to play, no clue about tactics, teamwork, community, and blind to anything that will affect them, is it their fault? nope not one bit, but that guy proved a point, the so called gamers nowdays in wow, are nothing like  gamers were even 5 years ago. no wonder most people dont like pvp, can it be that most people nowdays  cant fight their way out of a wet paper bag without reading a guide on ho to do it? /face in hands    
Well i don't pvp to much i do when i want to. Have i played open world pvp games? yes and I found them tedious only reason. I'm all for facing someone 1v1 but getting ganked by someone far superior in gear/level isn't exactly the funniest thing in the world. Does that mean because many games now of day have taking certain aspects of communication away, people don't like pvp cause of this? no thats a pretty stupid statement to make, it could be perhaps some people like to get massive amount of people to clear content that is fun to them (myself). I am actually pretty good at pvp, I just don't like open world pvp where im forced into it. And i don't like unbalanced pvp games such as WoW's current state. In an MMO guildwars 1 was my favorite pvp game.    And for last part for WoW currently right now it is impossible to do every boss in the game without tactics/teamwork. They have released bosses only available to hardcore modes, so your required to do tactics. And also that reasoning on teamwork/tactics corelates to pvp is also bad. You can get some of the best raiders in the world and they could suck at pvp, and you can get some of the best pvp'ers in the world and they would have a hard time clearing the content consiestent raiders do. Just some people, like hardcore pvp others like a simpler approach to pvp. For my self make a pvp game where its balanced, im not forced to do it unless i want to and i will play it that is all 
I think I have heard this close to a thousand times in game. That's probably a conservative estimate. Your first statement, in red, I would like to say..what can you do to stop this from happening or what can you do different next time? If you can put aside your anger/rage from the loss...then you are becoming a better player. 

 

Next, the green text. Are you a good PvP'er? But you don't like open world PvP when you are FORCED into it? Um, that's just full of contridictions. 1st lesson in PvP is to know when to run. If you're good at PvP in a game, then you know that. Open world PvP means anyone can attack at anytime...if you are playing a game that has that....then it wasn't forced...it means you weren't ready. Does that make sense? If I undock in a hauler in EvE or only have an axe and pickaxe in Darkfall....that means when I go out into the world....i'm saying to myself...Be ready to find a way out. 

You know what happens sometimes? I lose. It wasn't bc it was 3vs1 or whatever. I just lost. I fought back..I tried to run..I ducked and dodged...I bobbed and weaved and they still got me. 

The difference is I can then get some friends and we can hunt your ass down. No one is at a disadvantage when the rule of the land is..."don't undock in anything that you aren't willing to lose". 

I'm not bringing friends to help me beat you, I'm bringing them for your friends. If you don't have any, then you are going to be at a numerical disadvantage. 

Every FFA PvP game i've played it has always been about the PLAYER and not his toon/ship/gear/shinys. A players attitude is what allows the PvP seed take hold, not his hand to eye coordination, class choice, nothing else.




How does being killed by a player with a higher level or superior gear make someone a better player? There's no skill that can be learned to overcome the power disparity, so what exactly is happening to make the losing player a better player?
As I have stated before, the two OW PvP games I've spent the most time in are EvE and DF1. Superior gear and higher levels are easy to overcome with friends. It's why solo play isn't a great choice in those games, more so in DF. Here's the thing..skill progression in EvE in any skill is up to V. Tha'ts five. The killboards are littered with many higher sp players losing to groups of lesser skilled players bc they caught that guy napping or they planned a counter attack. 
It's all BS. If a newb is walking along and I was out hunting in DF...I would attack them sometimes...just to see what they do. Some of them ran, some started typing frantically, some just stopped...you know whom I was looking for...the person that fought back.  If you are willing to fight me with less skill points and lesser gear...but gave it their all...I would reimburse you or even rez them. 
People don't have to win the fight to become better players. I remember the first time I got warp scrambled in an asteroid belt and destroyed..I was pissed. I was angry, but I thought...how did he do that? What skill governs warp disruptors? How do you fit it? What are the power requirements? It made me learn the pvp side because I wanted a counter to it.
I would say that was a positive. Would you not? Look at it like this. You know not to stick your finger in a light socket because of two reasons. One, you did it as a child and it shocked the crap out of you...or Two...you tried to do it and someone smacked your hand. 
Both lessons were imprinted with pain. I don't stick my fingers in light sockets even now. It was a life lesson that has stood the test of time.

 

 

Playing: Rust and Battlefield 4
Hiatus: EvE
Waiting on: World of Darkness(sigh)
Interested in: The Repopulation

  Quirhid

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5511

Correcting wrongs on the Internet...

7/27/13 6:25:19 PM#116
Originally posted by lizardbones
Originally posted by CactusJack
You do have an option. Draw your weapon and defend yourself or get your corpse looted. If that sounds harsh, then get more friends. OW PvP means, if you are logged in and out in the games open world, you are consenting to PvP. It's as simple as that. 

 

Solo play in OWPvP games is possible, but I haven't met too many long term solo players in EvE and even less in DF. It's possible to PLAY solo, but bc those companies designed  the game to actually be played with other humans...sometimes people want to play with you, whether you like it or not.


There's always the option to not play the game, which apparently a lot of players choose.

If you're going to take anything from this thread, CactusJack, take that. If people can't choose in the game, they will choose outside the game. Their choice is to not to buy.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  CactusJack

Novice Member

Joined: 9/11/10
Posts: 400

Facta, non verba.

7/27/13 6:30:31 PM#117
Originally posted by Quirhid
Originally posted by lizardbones
Originally posted by CactusJack
You do have an option. Draw your weapon and defend yourself or get your corpse looted. If that sounds harsh, then get more friends. OW PvP means, if you are logged in and out in the games open world, you are consenting to PvP. It's as simple as that. 

 

Solo play in OWPvP games is possible, but I haven't met too many long term solo players in EvE and even less in DF. It's possible to PLAY solo, but bc those companies designed  the game to actually be played with other humans...sometimes people want to play with you, whether you like it or not.


There's always the option to not play the game, which apparently a lot of players choose.

If you're going to take anything from this thread, CactusJack, take that. If people can't choose in the game, they will choose outside the game. Their choice is to not to buy.

Which is what I've stated all along. If you are unhappy with a game, then don't sub to it. I concur. 

If people complain about OW PvP and then sub to one...I think they should follow that advice. I don't sub to LOTRO bc it's not my type of game. I don't go on and on upset that they didn't make Middle Earth an Open World PvP environment. I either accept it or not. Here's my cc number or "cancel your sub" button are my choices.

It's why these types of threads never go anywhere...some people are just seeking different things in their game experience. 

Playing: Rust and Battlefield 4
Hiatus: EvE
Waiting on: World of Darkness(sigh)
Interested in: The Repopulation

  killahh

Novice Member

Joined: 8/25/04
Posts: 455

As famous as the unknown soldier

7/27/13 6:38:42 PM#118
Originally posted by NagelRitter
Originally posted by killahh

after watching the WOW  vid on this topic where the guy with 1.9 days managed to  do every boss in the game without doing anything, it has occured to me that alot of the people that play mmorpg's have no clue.

no clue how to play, no clue about tactics, teamwork, community, and blind to anything that will affect them, is it their fault? nope not one bit, but that guy proved a point, the so called gamers nowdays in wow, are nothing like  gamers were even 5 years ago.

no wonder most people dont like pvp, can it be that most people nowdays  cant fight their way out of a wet paper bag without reading a guide on ho to do it?

Yeah, because WoW is representative of every single PvEer out there. People people are not complaining WoW is too easy left and right.

Because ganking miners is so hard and requires so much teamwork (LOL).

You do realize that games that are pure PvP competition (Dota-likes) have more people in them than even WoW does? Now what?

Originally posted by Utinni

Why do people keep posting about having an MMORPG with FFA pvp? Most of these games are based off DnD which if I can recall noone in any campaign ive ever done was pk'd. Virtually every other genre of game now is focused on you killing other people, why insist that RPG's be the same?

Go play mobas, fps, rts, fighting game... oh wait those are all much more difficult than mmorpg pvp... coincidence? think not.

Burn.

Originally posted by CactusJack

I would like to say..what can you do to stop this from happening or what can you do different next time? If you can put aside your anger/rage from the loss...then you are becoming a better player. 

Well, no, I'll have to play in a manner that I don't enjoy. I have to go put on gear I don't want and play in a manner I don't want the role I don't want. Or, I can never do anything interesting since everything an FFA PvP game usually offers that is interesting is not in safe areas.

So the answer to your question is: make my play time unfun.

Who always wins in FFA PvP? Griefers and gankers. I don't want to be one, even if that means I have to gimp myself. That is also how life works. "The evil usually wins, unless the good are very, very careful."

Are you a good PvP'er? But you don't like open world PvP when you are FORCED into it? Um, that's just full of contridictions.

No, it's not full of contradictions. Plenty of people are pretty good at competitive PvP (Dota likes, FPS, RTS, etc.), but don't particularly care for MMO "PvP". Partially because MMO "PvP" is often shitty and unbalanced, not to mention that a proper fight is virtually impossible to find. Either a stronger guy attacks a weaker guy or he runs away.

 a few points

people are indeed complaining wow is too easy.

and ganking miners, well there was that, but that was only part of it back in the day, i killed far more wanna be heros than miners, and when i myself got ganked,  i got back on the horse. the miners were the people that despite the warnings, went out unarmed into the wilderness , then got upset when they were killed.

this whole topic is very contentious , meat eaters vs vegans,  heres a few quotes from the  meat eaters of  our times:

The tendency to whining and complaining may be taken as the surest sign symptom of little souls and inferior intellects.

You don't make progress by standing on the sidelines, whimpering and complaining. 

Complainers change their complaints, but they never reduce the amount of time spent in complaining.
 

and my favorite:

Everyone has to make their own decisions. I still believe in that. You just have to be able to accept the consequences without complaining.
 

cheers

Gonada Dahung,over 20 years of mmorpg's and counting....Please Lord, let someone make a game that had all the awesomeness of UO, EQ and EVE...

  Quirhid

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5511

Correcting wrongs on the Internet...

7/27/13 6:39:13 PM#119
Originally posted by Ramanadjinn

In regards to losing making one a better player:

In most games it is true that nothing, or very little, can be learned from a higher level character or someone more advanced in the game just coming along and popping you.

But that isn't true for all games. 

Some games offer opportunities for newer characters, characters outfitted for non-combat activities, or solo characters, etc.. to skillfully avoid those that seek them while still accomplishing their activities they are wishing to do.  In Eve Online for example, one can get a lot accomplished in dangerous territory.  

But in Eve one will most likely go through a lot of trial and error learning how to watch their scanner properly and read and interpret what is going on around them properly to avoid getting killed by those more numerous, advanced in skill, or well equipped than they.

It doesn't apply to every game, but it isn't necessarily universally true that a lowbie getting ganked by a highbie is something that can't be helped, and that there is nothing for the lowbie to learn from it.  Eve is one example, the possibilities for game design are limitless.

Whoa, whoa... Eve far from being a poster boy of game design. It is practically plagued by design decisions that make little sense, and if they wanted to correct those, they would have to "pull a SOE" (=drastically change the game thus alienating the established playerbase). CCP has acknowledged this by saying along the lines of "There are some design decisions we are simply stuck with."

The directional scanner, in particular, is a nonsensical invention which, in any game released today, would update itself automatically and perhaps even give sound ques when combat probes are in the vicinity. It is poor UI design to force the player to manually update the scanner every few seconds. It is also one of those things that are needlessly complicated without offering any additional gameplay value.

Or maybe you meant that Eve offers many opportunities for improvement, which I could agree with: Eve definitely has a lot of room for improvement. And if you didn't mean that, I don't know what the hell you were talking about.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

7/27/13 6:42:22 PM#120
Originally posted by Grym

Ok, we all get it.  You're "Pro" PvP. 

Whoa there, buddy.  Let's not pretend, even jokingly, that open world PVPers are "pro" by any stretch.

MMORPG PVP is casual PVP.  Normal (non-MMO) PVP games involve little to no non-skill elements, while MMORPG PVP involves progression and "full PVP" (eg open world PVP) involves even more.  Non-skill elements in PVP are training wheels to aid an unskilled player in experiencing victory.

The less that casual PVPers get called "pro", even jokingly, the better.  The training wheels already inflate these players' egos enough without it.

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