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WildStar

WildStar 

General Discussion  » Payment model - Box Sales & Subs more or less confirmed

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60 posts found
  keithian

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/20/06
Posts: 2977

7/25/13 1:19:12 AM#21
Originally posted by jimprouner
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by jimprouner

They have already announced the game won't be Pay to win. 

The devs clearly said that they hate that model.

Has any dev actually said they ARE Pay to Win and they like that model?

I'm pretty sure every F2P or B2P game says that it isn't Pay to Win - but that's only a judgement the players can make and only after investing considerable time into the game.

Funny how that works...

When I saw the rabid bunny race, and now this "hybrid" model nonsense, my interest went from an already low 1 or 2/10 to 0.

Carbine devs seem legit.   They actually care about making a quality game they want to play.  You can tell by the way they talk about the game.  You can feel the excitement in their voice.   On the other hand, you listen to interviews from the ESO devs and to them talking about the game sounds like a chore.

 

This game won't be P2W.

 

If you were 2/10, after hearing all the amazing stuff this game has to offer, then you weren't interested to start with.  Why are you even here?

 Have no idea what you are talking about with the ESO devs making it sound like a chore lol. Really not tied to any sort of reality.

Well hopefully this game will be as good as the ridiculous hype because I don't get your digs into ESO which is a game that seems to be on the surface appealing to the RPG crowd with meaningful PVE and PVP and not some leading someone by a leash with combat circles and arrows saying...go explore.....but make sure you follow the arrow and look for those special exclamation points so you can do a kill x quest that nobody will read or care about.  I'm about to find out to some degree the reason for the hype around Wildstar..though there is an NDA I believe...so I'll have to respect that...who knows...maybe I'll be special and be capable of liking and supporting two games...or maybe it will fit the vibe they give off thats its targeted for the under 18 crowd..hope not.

As far as the payment model, I think I like BTP with a sub option as long as the Cash shop isn't PTW. Unlike a lot of cheapoos in these forums I'll pay a monthly fee for any game that I enjoy..though I really think this $15 a month is ridiculous and they should make it the same price as a Netflix Subscription. Maybe they will.

There Is Always Hope!

  fiontar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/07/04
Posts: 3711

7/25/13 4:54:44 AM#22

From what I understand, GW2 has produced superb earnings using the B2P+cash shop model. NCSoft owns Carbine and is publishing the game. If B2P/Cash Shop is working for GW2 and all indications are that it is, then there is a pretty good chance Wildstar will offer something very similar.

"Hybrid". Well, B2P+Cash Shop is a hybrid. It's almost F2P+CS, but you also have to buy the box. So, there is a possibility that WS will use the same model as GW2. "What if it's a hybrid between the GW2 model and the P2P  model"? I see that as a possibility as well. It could offer the GW2 model, plus an optional subscription that would include an exclusive benefit and maybe some cash shop currency included in the deal.

As to GW2, NCSoft doesn't break down their revenue numbers in much detail. GW2 box sales dropped by 50% vs. the previous quarter, but most MMOs today would be overjoyed to still be selling as many new boxes half a year+ after release. Even with the decline in Box sales, NCSoft Revenue was up over 300% vs. the same quarter a year ago and a good portion of that likely came from GW2 cash shop sales.

I love the GW2 business model and have spent a fair amount in the cash shop since release. However, I'd have no problem at all if Wildstar added an optional sub fee, with reasonable benefits, as long as the game is still playable and fun without the sub.

Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated

  furbans

Elite Member

Joined: 2/10/13
Posts: 927

7/25/13 5:31:18 AM#23
Originally posted by jimprouner
Originally posted by SpottyGekko

I'm absolutely 100% sure that whatever the payment plan will be, there will be a Cash Shop included.

 

All I want to know is how badly that CS will affect my playstyle...

I wouldn't say 100%, but I am about 99% certain you are right about the CS.

 

They have already announced the game won't be Pay to win. 

The devs clearly said that they hate that model.

 

Some, maybe all, furniture gives you a rested XP boost.  So it is possible that you could get a small leveling advantage by buying some furniture early on in the game.  I imagine that there is a limit to the amount of xp boost you can get from your home though, so I doubt it has any impact beyond the first few weeks.

[mod edit]  P2W is subjective at times it seems and really when push comes to shove they will go down the route for profit 9 times out of 10.

  Margulis

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/14/08
Posts: 1643

7/25/13 5:38:23 AM#24
"

We have OFFICIALLY heard from the devs that the game is going to be a hybrid model now.http://wildstar.junkiesnation.com/2013/05/29/wildstar-to-have-hybrid-payment-model/ Also, recent comments by the devs suggest they plan on selling the box. They have also announced the game won't be Pay to Win!"

 

Every pay to win cash shop I've seen, which is most to a certain degree, the developers have said it's not pay to win.  So we'll see....

  jimprouner

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/06/13
Posts: 152

 
OP  7/25/13 8:08:22 AM#25
Originally posted by fiontar

From what I understand, GW2 has produced superb earnings using the B2P+cash shop model. NCSoft owns Carbine and is publishing the game. If B2P/Cash Shop is working for GW2 and all indications are that it is, then there is a pretty good chance Wildstar will offer something very similar.

"Hybrid". Well, B2P+Cash Shop is a hybrid. It's almost F2P+CS, but you also have to buy the box. So, there is a possibility that WS will use the same model as GW2. "What if it's a hybrid between the GW2 model and the P2P  model"? I see that as a possibility as well. It could offer the GW2 model, plus an optional subscription that would include an exclusive benefit and maybe some cash shop currency included in the deal.

As to GW2, NCSoft doesn't break down their revenue numbers in much detail. GW2 box sales dropped by 50% vs. the previous quarter, but most MMOs today would be overjoyed to still be selling as many new boxes half a year+ after release. Even with the decline in Box sales, NCSoft Revenue was up over 300% vs. the same quarter a year ago and a good portion of that likely came from GW2 cash shop sales.

I love the GW2 business model and have spent a fair amount in the cash shop since release. However, I'd have no problem at all if Wildstar added an optional sub fee, with reasonable benefits, as long as the game is still playable and fun without the sub.

NCsoft is just the publisher.  That doesn't mean diddly shit.  They are two completely different games made by two completely different game developers.

GW2 only did good, because they intentionally didn't create any end game, or devote any resources to continually pumping out end game updates.  That is extremely expensive.  WS has 50-70% of its team devoted to doing just that!

  jimprouner

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/06/13
Posts: 152

 
OP  7/25/13 8:15:29 AM#26
Originally posted by furbans

[mod edit]  P2W is subjective at times it seems and really when push comes to shove they will go down the route for profit 9 times out of 10.

P2W isn't that subjective.  To say otherwise is just PR spin after the fact.

 

Just because some shit MMOs didn't mention the fact they were P2W, and then turned out to be, then all new games are automatically assumed to be P2W!  Even if they say they aren't...  Damn, that is a sad cynical pessimistic way to look at things.

I don't get you guys.  If you say your game isn't P2W, then it isn't.  If you had some reason to doubt carbine, then I could understand.  A coupe dishonest people doesn't make everyone dishonest.   Seriously though, how else do you prove the game isn't P2W if plainly stating it isn't sufficient?  What level of proof do you need?

  Theocritus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/15/08
Posts: 3613

7/25/13 8:17:04 AM#27
8 years in development? That seems like an awfully long time to make a game...Also if its box and sub I wont even look at it.....No way am I paying 100 bucks for a game anymore, especially with 100s of free options out there now.
  jimprouner

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/06/13
Posts: 152

 
OP  7/25/13 8:18:25 AM#28
Originally posted by Theocritus
8 years in development? That seems like an awfully long time to make a game...Also if its box and sub I wont even look at it.....No way am I paying 100 bucks for a game anymore, especially with 100s of free options out there now.

They started from scratch.  New IP, new everything, including an in house engine.

 

Quality takes times!

You get what you pay for.  Most of those free options are free for a reason.

  malamor666

Novice Member

Joined: 1/13/13
Posts: 5

7/25/13 8:31:40 AM#29
I hope they include a downloadable trial. Play to level X or whatever. Then purchase the download and sub. My days of blind faith game buying are over for MMO's.
  jimprouner

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/06/13
Posts: 152

 
OP  7/25/13 8:32:15 AM#30
Originally posted by keithian
Originally posted by jimprouner
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by jimprouner

They have already announced the game won't be Pay to win. 

The devs clearly said that they hate that model.

Has any dev actually said they ARE Pay to Win and they like that model?

I'm pretty sure every F2P or B2P game says that it isn't Pay to Win - but that's only a judgement the players can make and only after investing considerable time into the game.

Funny how that works...

When I saw the rabid bunny race, and now this "hybrid" model nonsense, my interest went from an already low 1 or 2/10 to 0.

Carbine devs seem legit.   They actually care about making a quality game they want to play.  You can tell by the way they talk about the game.  You can feel the excitement in their voice.   On the other hand, you listen to interviews from the ESO devs and to them talking about the game sounds like a chore.

 

This game won't be P2W.

 

If you were 2/10, after hearing all the amazing stuff this game has to offer, then you weren't interested to start with.  Why are you even here?

 Have no idea what you are talking about with the ESO devs making it sound like a chore lol. Really not tied to any sort of reality.

Well hopefully this game will be as good as the ridiculous hype because I don't get your digs into ESO which is a game that seems to be on the surface appealing to the RPG crowd with meaningful PVE and PVP and not some leading someone by a leash with combat circles and arrows saying...go explore.....but make sure you follow the arrow and look for those special exclamation points so you can do a kill x quest that nobody will read or care about.  I'm about to find out to some degree the reason for the hype around Wildstar..though there is an NDA I believe...so I'll have to respect that...who knows...maybe I'll be special and be capable of liking and supporting two games...or maybe it will fit the vibe they give off thats its targeted for the under 18 crowd..hope not.

As far as the payment model, I think I like BTP with a sub option as long as the Cash shop isn't PTW. Unlike a lot of cheapoos in these forums I'll pay a monthly fee for any game that I enjoy..though I really think this $15 a month is ridiculous and they should make it the same price as a Netflix Subscription. Maybe they will.

Ok, this is the first interview I found on ESO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6e4gv_GW5gs

I almost went to sleep listening to him talk.  If it weren't for the lies I heard, I probably would have.

 

First WS interview I found,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDfQEhnHFak

He is lively and actually looks like he is enjoying his time spent talking about the game.

  User Deleted
7/25/13 9:24:57 AM#31

Maybe they should change it to "fifty cents a day sub" rather than $15 a month.

I mean has western civilization degraded so much in the last 20 years that two quarters a day has become outrageous and expensive for some?

 

Sad I can remember back when money was actually worth more, dollar gas, could buy a softdrink with a single dollar and get change back...ect...two quarters in an arcade machine a day?  No problem!

Fast forward 20 years and I cant buy shit for a dollar, gas costs like $5 a gallon, and people are actually bitching about wasting two quarters a day on a game they play 10+ hours a week for months.

 

I mean i bet half you complaining lose $50 in change a day to couches, laundry, dropping the coins.

 

Its really quite sad to be honest.

Im just glad i didn't pick up programming as a skill and go into game making...how insulting that so many demand my labor be free.

  furbans

Elite Member

Joined: 2/10/13
Posts: 927

7/25/13 10:09:19 AM#32
Originally posted by jimprouner
Originally posted by furbans

[mod edit]  P2W is subjective at times it seems and really when push comes to shove they will go down the route for profit 9 times out of 10.

P2W isn't that subjective.  To say otherwise is just PR spin after the fact.

 

Just because some shit MMOs didn't mention the fact they were P2W, and then turned out to be, then all new games are automatically assumed to be P2W!  Even if they say they aren't...  Damn, that is a sad cynical pessimistic way to look at things.

I don't get you guys.  If you say your game isn't P2W, then it isn't.  If you had some reason to doubt carbine, then I could understand.  A coupe dishonest people doesn't make everyone dishonest.   Seriously though, how else do you prove the game isn't P2W if plainly stating it isn't sufficient?  What level of proof do you need?

P2W is very subjective.  Hell people were clamoring how even GW2 was "P2W" which is utter nonesense.

I just won't be tooting your horn how a game will not be P2W when no details are given out.

And it's not a couple of dishonest people, time n time again have I seen companies make the claim of "purely cosmetic and itme effeciency items" when in fact the opposite is true.  So much so that it has become a trend.

  jimprouner

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/06/13
Posts: 152

 
OP  7/25/13 10:24:04 AM#33
Originally posted by furbans
Originally posted by jimprouner
Originally posted by furbans

[mod edit]  P2W is subjective at times it seems and really when push comes to shove they will go down the route for profit 9 times out of 10.

P2W isn't that subjective.  To say otherwise is just PR spin after the fact.

 

Just because some shit MMOs didn't mention the fact they were P2W, and then turned out to be, then all new games are automatically assumed to be P2W!  Even if they say they aren't...  Damn, that is a sad cynical pessimistic way to look at things.

I don't get you guys.  If you say your game isn't P2W, then it isn't.  If you had some reason to doubt carbine, then I could understand.  A coupe dishonest people doesn't make everyone dishonest.   Seriously though, how else do you prove the game isn't P2W if plainly stating it isn't sufficient?  What level of proof do you need?

P2W is very subjective.  Hell people were clamoring how even GW2 was "P2W" which is utter nonesense.

I just won't be tooting your horn how a game will not be P2W when no details are given out.

And it's not a couple of dishonest people, time n time again have I seen companies make the claim of "purely cosmetic and itme effeciency items" when in fact the opposite is true.  So much so that it has become a trend.

The definition of P2W is pretty standard actually.  Just because you saw one idiot make a post that GW2 was P2W means nothing.  I could probably find a post that says WoW is P2W. 

 

It doesn't matter how many dishonest people you know.  Do you have any proof carbine is untrustworthy?

Just ooc, do you think it is better for a company to declare it isn't P2W, or do you think it is better for them to not say anything?  Because it looks like you are just going to assume whatever you want regardless.

  Thupli

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/25/11
Posts: 408

7/25/13 10:29:02 AM#34
Originally posted by BadSpock
 

Remember WAR?

With any game you just dont know until it is released, whether B2P or P2P.

 

I think the fact that NC Soft has shown with GW2 that you dont have to have an imbalanced CS is a good sign, but we wont know until W* is released.  It's as simple as that, just like any game.

  Superman0X

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/28/06
Posts: 995

7/25/13 11:05:09 AM#35
Originally posted by jimprouner
Originally posted by Superman0X

The Payment model is most likely straighforward:

 

F2P + Box (Optional Exclusive Item Sales + CS Currency) + Cash Shop (Optional Item Sales) + Sub (Optional Sub for bonus + CS Currency)

 

This makes the game fully F2P, but with incentives to buy the box, sub for bonus, and then use the Cash Shop. No restrictions on content, but bonus items to make it easier/faster/better looking. Why should any game being launched today forgoe any of the monitization options that customers want.

There is not a chance in hell the game is straight up F2P!

The last quote on reddit practically tells you straight up that you will have to buy the box.

 

More than likely this is the model,

Buy Box

Cash shop with only cosmetic items

F2P or Subscription (Subs get CS currency and some other perks)

Bah, this is just a matter of time. I do not disagree that they can make money by requiring a box (physical or virutal) sale to start... and then drop it 3 months in. I would be surprised if they did not already have this planned. There is no real advantage to B2P past the first few months of sales, and it converts to F2P very easily (no real changes, except the requirement to buy). This is why the box sales will basically be exclusive bonus items... which can be sold after they convert.

  jimprouner

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/06/13
Posts: 152

 
OP  7/25/13 11:35:35 AM#36
Originally posted by Superman0X
Originally posted by jimprouner
Originally posted by Superman0X

The Payment model is most likely straighforward:

 

F2P + Box (Optional Exclusive Item Sales + CS Currency) + Cash Shop (Optional Item Sales) + Sub (Optional Sub for bonus + CS Currency)

 

This makes the game fully F2P, but with incentives to buy the box, sub for bonus, and then use the Cash Shop. No restrictions on content, but bonus items to make it easier/faster/better looking. Why should any game being launched today forgoe any of the monitization options that customers want.

There is not a chance in hell the game is straight up F2P!

The last quote on reddit practically tells you straight up that you will have to buy the box.

 

More than likely this is the model,

Buy Box

Cash shop with only cosmetic items

F2P or Subscription (Subs get CS currency and some other perks)

Bah, this is just a matter of time. I do not disagree that they can make money by requiring a box (physical or virutal) sale to start... and then drop it 3 months in. I would be surprised if they did not already have this planned. There is no real advantage to B2P past the first few months of sales, and it converts to F2P very easily (no real changes, except the requirement to buy). This is why the box sales will basically be exclusive bonus items... which can be sold after they convert.

Actually there are 2 massive advantages to selling a box,

 

#1

 

#2

You need the box sales to pay for the overwhelming cost of development!

 

GW2 for instance has sold 2.6 million copies

2.6 million sales * $60 = $156 million dollars

 

That isn't chump change!

 

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5822

7/25/13 12:57:27 PM#37
I don't mind paying an entry cost (box fee).  I hope the content and cash shops are setup like GW2, Tera, and Rift.  Those are my favorite games right now and I really like how they charge for them.  The prices are reasonable, there is some stuff in the cash shop I like, the content is open, and the subs (Rift and Tera only) are boosters not requirements.

Curse you AquaScum!

  keithian

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/20/06
Posts: 2977

7/25/13 1:31:21 PM#38
Originally posted by jimprouner
Originally posted by keithian
Originally posted by jimprouner
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by jimprouner

They have already announced the game won't be Pay to win. 

The devs clearly said that they hate that model.

Has any dev actually said they ARE Pay to Win and they like that model?

I'm pretty sure every F2P or B2P game says that it isn't Pay to Win - but that's only a judgement the players can make and only after investing considerable time into the game.

Funny how that works...

When I saw the rabid bunny race, and now this "hybrid" model nonsense, my interest went from an already low 1 or 2/10 to 0.

Carbine devs seem legit.   They actually care about making a quality game they want to play.  You can tell by the way they talk about the game.  You can feel the excitement in their voice.   On the other hand, you listen to interviews from the ESO devs and to them talking about the game sounds like a chore.

 

This game won't be P2W.

 

If you were 2/10, after hearing all the amazing stuff this game has to offer, then you weren't interested to start with.  Why are you even here?

 Have no idea what you are talking about with the ESO devs making it sound like a chore lol. Really not tied to any sort of reality.

Well hopefully this game will be as good as the ridiculous hype because I don't get your digs into ESO which is a game that seems to be on the surface appealing to the RPG crowd with meaningful PVE and PVP and not some leading someone by a leash with combat circles and arrows saying...go explore.....but make sure you follow the arrow and look for those special exclamation points so you can do a kill x quest that nobody will read or care about.  I'm about to find out to some degree the reason for the hype around Wildstar..though there is an NDA I believe...so I'll have to respect that...who knows...maybe I'll be special and be capable of liking and supporting two games...or maybe it will fit the vibe they give off thats its targeted for the under 18 crowd..hope not.

As far as the payment model, I think I like BTP with a sub option as long as the Cash shop isn't PTW. Unlike a lot of cheapoos in these forums I'll pay a monthly fee for any game that I enjoy..though I really think this $15 a month is ridiculous and they should make it the same price as a Netflix Subscription. Maybe they will.

Ok, this is the first interview I found on ESO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6e4gv_GW5gs

I almost went to sleep listening to him talk.  If it weren't for the lies I heard, I probably would have.

 

First WS interview I found,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDfQEhnHFak

He is lively and actually looks like he is enjoying his time spent talking about the game.

You are entitled to you opinion (I think you should check out my signature), but why bring the thread off topic by even mentioning ESO? A tone of voice in a video has nothing to do with payment options, so why cant you just talk about Wildstar instead of digging another game on an irrelevant topic? By the way, as of now, your first link has thumbs up by 88% of those responding, so it seems like most disagree with you. I actually liked the presenter better for Wildstar even though I felt he targeted my nieces more with expressions like 'super powerful' and ESO still seems more up my alley due to its more mature tone and look, but it was informative and a good video nonetheless.

There Is Always Hope!

  DamonVile

Elite Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4820

7/25/13 2:05:16 PM#39

I don't mind a box price but I wont preorder one. GW2 showed me that no matter how popular or well loved the game is there's always a chance you wont like it....and I didn't

If it's going to be a b2p I'll be waiting to hear how the game plays and what types of features it has. I know enough about what I like to know what I hate.

There's a saying about evolution and why we have two eyes and two ears but only one mouth. Clearly it didn't see the internet coming or it never would have given us ten fingers to type with.

  fiontar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/07/04
Posts: 3711

7/25/13 2:25:38 PM#40
Originally posted by jimprouner
Originally posted by fiontar

From what I understand, GW2 has produced superb earnings using the B2P+cash shop model. NCSoft owns Carbine and is publishing the game. If B2P/Cash Shop is working for GW2 and all indications are that it is, then there is a pretty good chance Wildstar will offer something very similar.

"Hybrid". Well, B2P+Cash Shop is a hybrid. It's almost F2P+CS, but you also have to buy the box. So, there is a possibility that WS will use the same model as GW2. "What if it's a hybrid between the GW2 model and the P2P  model"? I see that as a possibility as well. It could offer the GW2 model, plus an optional subscription that would include an exclusive benefit and maybe some cash shop currency included in the deal.

As to GW2, NCSoft doesn't break down their revenue numbers in much detail. GW2 box sales dropped by 50% vs. the previous quarter, but most MMOs today would be overjoyed to still be selling as many new boxes half a year+ after release. Even with the decline in Box sales, NCSoft Revenue was up over 300% vs. the same quarter a year ago and a good portion of that likely came from GW2 cash shop sales.

I love the GW2 business model and have spent a fair amount in the cash shop since release. However, I'd have no problem at all if Wildstar added an optional sub fee, with reasonable benefits, as long as the game is still playable and fun without the sub.

NCsoft is just the publisher.  That doesn't mean diddly shit.  They are two completely different games made by two completely different game developers.

GW2 only did good, because they intentionally didn't create any end game, or devote any resources to continually pumping out end game updates.  That is extremely expensive.  WS has 50-70% of its team devoted to doing just that!

Just to clarify, Carbine, just like Arenanet, is a wholly owned subsidiary of NCSoft. I assume they have a similar level of creative control, but NCSoft makes the business decisions, even if done so with input from the studio.

I stand by my post and reasoning. Also, any variation on the GW2 business model may provide some insight into how NCSoft views the results of that model.

My take is that the GW2 business model will be one of the most prominent business models for future MMOs, with straight F2P being the the other most prevalent. There seems to be some room for an optional monthly subscription with value added benefits in the mix, but it has to be truly optional. The once dominant P2P  model is making it's exit and once a few more major AAA titles opt out, that business model will likely die a rapid death.

Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated

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