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WildStar

WildStar 

General Discussion  » Payment model - Box Sales & Subs more or less confirmed

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60 posts found
  jimprouner

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/06/13
Posts: 152

 
OP  7/24/13 10:52:59 AM#1

We have OFFICIALLY heard from the devs that the game is going to be a hybrid model now.

http://wildstar.junkiesnation.com/2013/05/29/wildstar-to-have-hybrid-payment-model/

Also, recent comments by the devs suggest they plan on selling the box.

They have also announced the game won't be Pay to Win!

 

There are 3 possibilities,
Sub + Buy box
Buy Box + F2P + (Maybe item store)
F2P + item store

3 possible hybrid combinations
Sub + Buy box or Buy Box +F2P + item store
Sub + Buy Box or F2P + item store
F2P + item store or Buy Box + F2P


The third option is nonsensical.

#1 The game has been in development for nearly 8 years

#2 Its a triple A MMO, and they have suggested 100 millions price tag.  "There is no better way to set fire to 100 million dollars than to develop an MMO and not have end game".

It is estimated that SWTOR cost over 300-400 million dollars.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2012/08/01/five-lessons-learned-as-swtor-surrenders/

#3 They are planning content for a full year after release, and continual end game updates. 

#4 This is a game designed to endure years!  They need a semi consistent revenue coming in to pay for that development.

Even if you want to consider the GW2 model, Buy box + itemstore, as a hybrid, do you honestly think it could pay for all that?  No way in hell.  They have far higher costs than GW2 ever did.  If the game does incredibly well then they could MAYBE get their initial investment back from box sales, but the item store isn't going to be able to fund all that new content.  Even, if we took another step towards crazy town and said the item store could pay for continual future content, then where is the profit?

 

On reddit, Carbine said that they acknowledge that the payment models of SWTOR/Tera/Rift weren't working, and that they plan on doing something different, because they believe that if they do what other failing MMOs did, then they'd fail as well.  He compared being unique to gambling Wildstar, acknowledging it'll either be a hit or a miss.

Obviously there will be box sales, it won't be free to play for sure.  They've defended the idea of box sales to a point where they made it obvious the game won't be free.

 

 

That last quote is very very telling... He practically comes and tells us what to expect.

 

TLDR:

More than likely this is the model,

Buy Box

Cash shop with only cosmetic items

F2P or Subscription (Subs get CS currency and some other perks)

 

  SpottyGekko

Elite Member

Joined: 9/26/04
Posts: 2857

7/24/13 10:59:05 AM#2

I'm absolutely 100% sure that whatever the payment plan will be, there will be a Cash Shop included.

 

All I want to know is how badly that CS will affect my playstyle...

  jimprouner

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/06/13
Posts: 152

 
OP  7/24/13 11:09:51 AM#3
Originally posted by SpottyGekko

I'm absolutely 100% sure that whatever the payment plan will be, there will be a Cash Shop included.

 

All I want to know is how badly that CS will affect my playstyle...

I wouldn't say 100%, but I am about 99% certain you are right about the CS.

 

They have already announced the game won't be Pay to win. 

The devs clearly said that they hate that model.

 

Some, maybe all, furniture gives you a rested XP boost.  So it is possible that you could get a small leveling advantage by buying some furniture early on in the game.  I imagine that there is a limit to the amount of xp boost you can get from your home though, so I doubt it has any impact beyond the first few weeks.

  Venomania

Novice Member

Joined: 7/12/11
Posts: 42

7/24/13 11:13:22 AM#4

Sounds to me like it will be like GW2 with tierd subs is all

 

B2P + CS + Tiered Sub Options

 

FF14 has tiered Sub Options btw, I'm sure there is another MMO with it. Higher Sub costs unlock more features. It would make sense. 

  jimprouner

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/06/13
Posts: 152

 
OP  7/24/13 11:17:21 AM#5
Originally posted by Venomania

Sounds to me like it will be like GW2 with tierd subs is all

 

B2P + CS + Tiered Sub Options

 

FF14 has tiered Sub Options btw, I'm sure there is another MMO with it. Higher Sub costs unlock more features. It would make sense. 

On reddit, Carbine said that they acknowledge that the payment models of SWTOR/Tera/Rift weren't working, and that they plan on doing something different, because they believe that if they do what other failing MMOs did, then they'd fail as well.  He compared being unique to gambling Wildstar, acknowledging it'll either be a hit or a miss.

Obviously there will be box sales, it won't be free to play for sure.  They've defended the idea of box sales to a point where they made it obvious the game won't be free.

  Hanthos

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/17/13
Posts: 222

PROUD P2P Elitist...

7/24/13 11:21:55 AM#6

I have no problem with paying for a box or a sub, but I'm completely done with the discriminatory cash shops requiring me to pay more for anything. Subs work just fine, they create balance for all players, do not disrupt the in game economy or crafters and encourage invested players.

 

Cash Shop = Next game please...

  jimprouner

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/06/13
Posts: 152

 
OP  7/24/13 11:27:11 AM#7
Originally posted by Hanthos

I have no problem with paying for a box or a sub, but I'm completely done with the discriminatory cash shops requiring me to pay more for anything. Subs work just fine, they create balance for all players, do not disrupt the in game economy or crafters and encourage invested players.

 

Cash Shop = Next game please...

I have no issues with them as long as they only sell cosmetic junk like WoW.  If someone wants to blow $10 on a pet, then more power to him.  That is another $10 that the game company can use to continue development!  Hell, I have even bought pets when the proceeds go to a relief fund.

  Superman0X

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/28/06
Posts: 972

7/24/13 11:29:28 AM#8

The Payment model is most likely straighforward:

 

F2P + Box (Optional Exclusive Item Sales + CS Currency) + Cash Shop (Optional Item Sales) + Sub (Optional Sub for bonus + CS Currency)

 

This makes the game fully F2P, but with incentives to buy the box, sub for bonus, and then use the Cash Shop. No restrictions on content, but bonus items to make it easier/faster/better looking. Why should any game being launched today forgoe any of the monitization options that customers want.

  jimprouner

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/06/13
Posts: 152

 
OP  7/24/13 11:44:58 AM#9
Originally posted by Superman0X

The Payment model is most likely straighforward:

 

F2P + Box (Optional Exclusive Item Sales + CS Currency) + Cash Shop (Optional Item Sales) + Sub (Optional Sub for bonus + CS Currency)

 

This makes the game fully F2P, but with incentives to buy the box, sub for bonus, and then use the Cash Shop. No restrictions on content, but bonus items to make it easier/faster/better looking. Why should any game being launched today forgoe any of the monitization options that customers want.

There is not a chance in hell the game is straight up F2P!

The last quote on reddit practically tells you straight up that you will have to buy the box.

 

More than likely this is the model,

Buy Box

Cash shop with only cosmetic items

F2P or Subscription (Subs get CS currency and some other perks)

  SpottyGekko

Elite Member

Joined: 9/26/04
Posts: 2857

7/24/13 11:59:00 AM#10
Originally posted by jimprouner
Originally posted by Hanthos

I have no problem with paying for a box or a sub, but I'm completely done with the discriminatory cash shops requiring me to pay more for anything. Subs work just fine, they create balance for all players, do not disrupt the in game economy or crafters and encourage invested players.

 

Cash Shop = Next game please...

I have no issues with them as long as they only sell cosmetic junk like WoW.  If someone wants to blow $10 on a pet, then more power to him.  That is another $10 that the game company can use to continue development!  Hell  I have even bought pets when they proceeds go to a relief fund.

Aye, there are Cash Shops and cash shops...

 

But any game that is relying 100% on CS sales to pay the bills is not going to have a CS filled with a few "optional" items, unless it was developed by 2 guys in their spare time.

WoW has a very inoffensive CS, because that's purely "money-on-the-side" for them. Their huge monthly sub revenues are what keeps them going.

  Warruz

Novice Member

Joined: 7/23/13
Posts: 5

7/24/13 11:59:50 AM#11
My Guess is GW2 Style with perhaps a Sub Option. 


Check out Pause your Game - Gaming Podcast (Under construction)

  BadSpock

Elite Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7699

Logic be damned!

7/24/13 12:03:56 PM#12
Originally posted by jimprouner

They have already announced the game won't be Pay to win. 

The devs clearly said that they hate that model.

Has any dev actually said they ARE Pay to Win and they like that model?

I'm pretty sure every F2P or B2P game says that it isn't Pay to Win - but that's only a judgement the players can make and only after investing considerable time into the game.

Funny how that works...

When I saw the rabid bunny race, and now this "hybrid" model nonsense, my interest went from an already low 1 or 2/10 to 0.

Now Playing:
Looking Towards: Destiny

  SpottyGekko

Elite Member

Joined: 9/26/04
Posts: 2857

7/24/13 12:11:22 PM#13
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by jimprouner

They have already announced the game won't be Pay to win. 

The devs clearly said that they hate that model.

Has any dev actually said they ARE Pay to Win and they like that model?

I'm pretty sure every F2P or B2P game says that it isn't Pay to Win - but that's only a judgement the players can make and only after investing considerable time into the game.

Funny how that works...

When I saw the rabid bunny race, and now this "hybrid" model nonsense, my interest went from an already low 1 or 2/10 to 0.

I will play FFXIV when I'm feeling serious and EPIC, and I'll be playing a "rabid rabbit" in Wildstar when I'm in need of some comic relief 

And I'll sub to both games with a smile 

  jimprouner

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/06/13
Posts: 152

 
OP  7/24/13 12:27:02 PM#14
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by jimprouner

They have already announced the game won't be Pay to win. 

The devs clearly said that they hate that model.

Has any dev actually said they ARE Pay to Win and they like that model?

I'm pretty sure every F2P or B2P game says that it isn't Pay to Win - but that's only a judgement the players can make and only after investing considerable time into the game.

Funny how that works...

When I saw the rabid bunny race, and now this "hybrid" model nonsense, my interest went from an already low 1 or 2/10 to 0.

Carbine devs seem legit.   They actually care about making a quality game they want to play.  You can tell by the way they talk about the game.  You can feel the excitement in their voice.   On the other hand, you listen to interviews from the ESO devs and to them talking about the game sounds like a chore.

 

This game won't be P2W.

 

If you were 2/10, after hearing all the amazing stuff this game has to offer, then you weren't interested to start with.  Why are you even here?

  BadSpock

Elite Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7699

Logic be damned!

7/24/13 12:30:24 PM#15
Originally posted by jimprouner
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by jimprouner

They have already announced the game won't be Pay to win. 

The devs clearly said that they hate that model.

Has any dev actually said they ARE Pay to Win and they like that model?

I'm pretty sure every F2P or B2P game says that it isn't Pay to Win - but that's only a judgement the players can make and only after investing considerable time into the game.

Funny how that works...

When I saw the rabid bunny race, and now this "hybrid" model nonsense, my interest went from an already low 1 or 2/10 to 0.

Carbine devs seem legit.   They actually care about making a quality game they want to play.  You can tell by the way they talk about the game.  You can feel the excitement in their voice.   On the other hand, you listen to interviews from the ESO devs and to them talking about the game sounds like a chore.

Remember WAR?

Now Playing:
Looking Towards: Destiny

  Nephaerius

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/18/09
Posts: 1455

7/24/13 12:32:40 PM#16
Originally posted by jimprouner
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by jimprouner

They have already announced the game won't be Pay to win. 

The devs clearly said that they hate that model.

Has any dev actually said they ARE Pay to Win and they like that model?

I'm pretty sure every F2P or B2P game says that it isn't Pay to Win - but that's only a judgement the players can make and only after investing considerable time into the game.

Funny how that works...

When I saw the rabid bunny race, and now this "hybrid" model nonsense, my interest went from an already low 1 or 2/10 to 0.

Carbine devs seem legit.   They actually care about making a quality game they want to play.  You can tell by the way they talk about the game.  You can feel the excitement in their voice.   On the other hand, you listen to interviews from the ESO devs and to them talking about the game sounds like a chore.

 

This game won't be P2W.

 

If you were 2/10, after hearing all the amazing stuff this game has to offer, then you weren't interested to start with.  Why are you even here?

 He's here and commenting because he has a valid point.  What developer on the planet earth would ever claim to be making a P2W game?  The answer is none.  Therefore, using their statement that they are not going to make a P2W game as evidence that they won't is a mistake.  It's like saying "Wildstar 100% won't be P2W because the devs said so...."  Rather shoddy reasoning on your part.  Now if you have some other evidence besides they said so you might have a point.  Otherwise, the only take away is "no one knows if it will be P2W or not but the devs are claiming it won't be."

OT: I think the game will be B2P with a CS.  If it's B2P + Sub Options + CS I won't be interested. 

Twitter: @Nephaerius
Steam: Neph
Xbox 360 GT: Nephaerius

  jimprouner

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/06/13
Posts: 152

 
OP  7/24/13 12:42:48 PM#17
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by jimprouner
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by jimprouner

They have already announced the game won't be Pay to win. 

The devs clearly said that they hate that model.

Has any dev actually said they ARE Pay to Win and they like that model?

I'm pretty sure every F2P or B2P game says that it isn't Pay to Win - but that's only a judgement the players can make and only after investing considerable time into the game.

Funny how that works...

When I saw the rabid bunny race, and now this "hybrid" model nonsense, my interest went from an already low 1 or 2/10 to 0.

Carbine devs seem legit.   They actually care about making a quality game they want to play.  You can tell by the way they talk about the game.  You can feel the excitement in their voice.   On the other hand, you listen to interviews from the ESO devs and to them talking about the game sounds like a chore.

Remember WAR?

I never had much interest in that game, so I didn't follow it.

I heard it flopped pretty hardcore though.

 

Originally posted by Nephaerius

 He's here and commenting because he has a valid point.  What developer on the planet earth would ever claim to be making a P2W game?  The answer is none.  Therefore, using their statement that they are not going to make a P2W game as evidence that they won't is a mistake.  It's like saying "Wildstar 100% won't be P2W because the devs said so...."  Rather shoddy reasoning on your part.  Now if you have some other evidence besides they said so you might have a point.  Otherwise, the only take away is "no one knows if it will be P2W or not but the devs are claiming it won't be."

OT: I think the game will be B2P with a CS.  If it's B2P + Sub Options + CS I won't be interested. 

That is indeed a valid point.  Except the developers said the game won't be P2W.  That is completely different from not mentioning the game is P2W.

 

This is the sort of PR spin you would expect from someone not mentioning their game is P2W.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/09/19/planetside-2s-higby-talks-member-benefits-pay-to-win/

 

"Planetside 2creative director Matt Higby took to the official forums recently to address concerns about potential pay-to-win aspects of the title's monetization scheme. "As much as I want to give you the definitive answer that PlanetSide 2 is not pay-to-win, it turns out it's actually a fairly personal question and people define what exactly pay-to-win is in their own way," Higby wrote."

  DeniZg

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/29/12
Posts: 508

7/24/13 12:48:52 PM#18

Yep, most likely B2P + cash shop + optional sub. Which brings us to question, what would sub get you?

Anyway, business model is the least of my concerns. If the game is good, I will gladly pay a sub. So far, they have ticked all the boxes I need in a MMO. My only doubt is replayability of same faction content. Only time will tell. 

  Nephaerius

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/18/09
Posts: 1455

7/24/13 2:39:24 PM#19
Originally posted by jimprouner
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by jimprouner
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by jimprouner

They have already announced the game won't be Pay to win. 

The devs clearly said that they hate that model.

Has any dev actually said they ARE Pay to Win and they like that model?

I'm pretty sure every F2P or B2P game says that it isn't Pay to Win - but that's only a judgement the players can make and only after investing considerable time into the game.

Funny how that works...

When I saw the rabid bunny race, and now this "hybrid" model nonsense, my interest went from an already low 1 or 2/10 to 0.

Carbine devs seem legit.   They actually care about making a quality game they want to play.  You can tell by the way they talk about the game.  You can feel the excitement in their voice.   On the other hand, you listen to interviews from the ESO devs and to them talking about the game sounds like a chore.

Remember WAR?

I never had much interest in that game, so I didn't follow it.

I heard it flopped pretty hardcore though.

 

Originally posted by Nephaerius

 He's here and commenting because he has a valid point.  What developer on the planet earth would ever claim to be making a P2W game?  The answer is none.  Therefore, using their statement that they are not going to make a P2W game as evidence that they won't is a mistake.  It's like saying "Wildstar 100% won't be P2W because the devs said so...."  Rather shoddy reasoning on your part.  Now if you have some other evidence besides they said so you might have a point.  Otherwise, the only take away is "no one knows if it will be P2W or not but the devs are claiming it won't be."

OT: I think the game will be B2P with a CS.  If it's B2P + Sub Options + CS I won't be interested. 

That is indeed a valid point.  Except the developers said the game won't be P2W.  That is completely different from not mentioning the game is P2W.

 

This is the sort of PR spin you would expect from someone not mentioning their game is P2W.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/09/19/planetside-2s-higby-talks-member-benefits-pay-to-win/

 

"Planetside 2creative director Matt Higby took to the official forums recently to address concerns about potential pay-to-win aspects of the title's monetization scheme. "As much as I want to give you the definitive answer that PlanetSide 2 is not pay-to-win, it turns out it's actually a fairly personal question and people define what exactly pay-to-win is in their own way," Higby wrote."

 I don't think you understood.  I don't think that actually stating your game is not P2W is any different than avoiding the subject altogether.  No developer is ever going  to state their game is P2W.  Even if it is glaringly obvious.  Therefore, there's no reason to put stock in Carbine's statement.  If they have some other evidence, like the cash shop for example, then we could look at that and say oh it's not P2W or it is.  But their statement that it's not holds no weight whatsoever.  Seriously who would say their game is P2W before it's even out?  That would just destroy any hope of sales.

Twitter: @Nephaerius
Steam: Neph
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  jimprouner

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/06/13
Posts: 152

 
OP  7/24/13 2:46:58 PM#20
Originally posted by Nephaerius  I don't think that actually stating your game is not P2W is any different than avoiding the subject altogether.


This doesn't seem logical to me.  It is completely contradictory!

If you say you are not P2W, then you aren't P2W.  (Assuming the devs didn't lie, which is a decent assumption unless you have justification they are untrustworthy)

If you don't mention it, then there is a chance that the game might be or might not be P2W.

 

 

The game won't be P2W.  There is simply no reason for it to use that model

#1 Huge negative stereotype of P2W model.

#2 Huge amount of bad PR when people call the devs liars.

#3 The game will have box sales

#4 The game will have subs

#5 There are tons of cosmetic things they can sell in game!

 

P2W would only hurt them!

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