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World of Warcraft

World of Warcraft 

General Discussion  » Too much change

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47 posts found
  doodphace

Elite Member

Joined: 6/19/12
Posts: 1302

7/25/13 11:23:22 AM#21
Originally posted by Chrisbox
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by Chrisbox
Originally posted by strangiato2112

5.3 and 5.4 are trying to move away from dailies, so that change is good.

 

WoW tinkers with classes *far* too much though.  Many classes play completely different than they used to, which is terrible design and has definitely contributed to the churn

It's because they can't balance this expansion with such high item levels, they've had the same problems since 5.0 and I can assure you they aren't going away in 5.4.  

Unless they crunch down ilvl's and stats next expansion balance will be even worse.  

Well, conisdering the game is vastly more balanced now than it was in vanilla/BC, im not quite sure ilvl inflation is related...

It's a different kind of imbalance this time around though, vanilla/BC had a ton more of PVE imbalances.  MoP's problems lie mainly in PvP which is just CC someone then burst someone down or bursted.  Not to mention more than half the specs aren't 2200 viable.  

Not saying PVE in MoP is completely balanced either though, its clear what classes are topping meters and pally tanks...nuff said.  

Yes, but that has always been the case. MoP PVP isnt any less balanced than any other time in WoW's history. CC is out of control for sure, but that has nothing to do with ilvl.

  Purutzil

Elite Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 2828

The Critical Hit Pretzel!

7/25/13 11:24:11 AM#22

Change ISNT always bad. The problem is a lot of the change has been over-all for the worst. For everything good they add 2-3 things bad to it. Vanilla WoW to TBC was actually a rather good change for the better. It made things far less 'hardcore' taking away tedium while still not spoon feeding the player. Sure, some didn't like all the changes but for the most part it built upon itself changing things up in a posative light.

 

The issue is it seemed to slip from there. Right before WOTLK it did do some questionable things, though wotlk is where it really shined. At launch it had some good elements to it, heck they added in Feral Dps which to this day is the most fun DPS class I played in any MMO, very challenge but very rewarding. Something you could easily see the difference between a good and bad player with, and doing its 'rotation' (more of a priority system then anything) using energy in a way that just was so satisfying. The issue is while that was better things started slipping for the worst. Raids started to become trivialized, heroics were something everyone could do and dungeons started to become tedious and "we rush this or the group sucks' mentality really started to shine even more then before since the grind was PUSHED on you and made into a chore.

 

It just kept sliding down with what we now have a butchered talent tree, to the point that MoP took away the corpse of the once glorious talent tree for utter garbage (sorry strong words but this would be high in my list of my top 10 dumbest changes to put in a game). Content even more trivialized and the feeling of the game being a 'chore' only further emphasized, added with overly simplified classes. 

 

But ranting aside, change is good, so long as if its not the wrong change. WoW has been making terrible design choice after terrible design choice. Even copying off of other games they don't seem to grasp onto it like they use to (lets face it, WoW has very little originality behind it outside say maybe the graphic style) a lot of what they take doesn't really manage to be all that much of an improvement and even at times a downgrade. They just don't seem to know what they should do. Trying to change to be more casual friendly is one thing, but when its diminishing the value of the game to the point casual players are finding it boring or easy, it should be clear you are doing things wrong.

 

WoW is the ONLY big Nostalgic MMO I spent a good time playing and enjoying in my past that I don't bother to return to. Change is something i can embrace, but its just removed far to much, something other games I play while can be a lot different, still hold value to me that wow just can't as it is.

  Zorgo

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/05/05
Posts: 2194

Who did wrong? The advertiser hired to sell the game or the consumer who put faith in advertising?

7/25/13 11:38:01 AM#23
Originally posted by page975

Back in the 60s Ford had the Mustang, very popular car. I think it was the mid 70s they decided to completely overhaul the design. Like WoW.  No one asked for this drastic change.  Ford did it anyway.

They made it much smaller, cheaper with the same engine as the Ford Pinto.  All their engines got only forty thousand miles before they began to burn oil.  It was a major flop and AND NO ONE ASKED FOR THIS CHANGE !

 

 

Exactly like what Blizzard did with WoW.  Contrary to popular belief no one asked for easy, they made this up.  Blizzard did this to market their expansions and sell them faster.....Show me Prof of this you say ?...I say screw you ! 

Have you ever played World of Warcraft with 10 year olds back in 2005 ?....They played just as good as adults...They would need everything and loot your stuff, complain, and be selfish, but they played the game just as good if not better...No one asked for easy !

 

Blizzard could have gone in several directions, instead they could have made a new 1-60 Continent.  This is just one example . But to butcher a working project was a bad move.  Bad move for the players, but good move for marketing.

People here would say " but 9 million players ". First, without going into detail this is another marketing trick by Blizzard, the numbers are fabricated by the team.  No one knows the alternative directions history could have taken, but I'm sure it could have been better.  I could only guess, but my opinion would be that the NEW marketing team stepped in after the BC expansion and overpowered the passion !

 

I agree with your post in spirit but I would add this as a fine tuning:

no one asked for easy - but they did ask for 'accessibility'. I can't remember the exact press release or numbers, but I know that Blizzard responded to many complaints, backed up by data that a VERY small percentage of folks were able to access the end game content. If I remember correctly, it was only single digit percentages getting to experience the 'coolest' content. 

Paying customers wanted to access this, and Blizzard wanted their customers to see the 'coolest' stuff in the game. 

The huge mistake was providing this 'accessibility' through making the game easier. It achieved their objectives, but as you stated, it wasn't what was asked for.

There was a building and festering backlash to this decision which culminated in the Cataclysm heroics being truly difficult. At this time, there was a large contingency that had become accustomed to 'easy' - and at this time Blizzard complied - they did what was asked of them by a certain percentage of players (I wonder how many) and did in fact make the Cataclysm heroics 'easier', just like some players asked for.

Yet, those who were not in that camp complained again about the 'dumbing down'. 

I'm not sure about the current solution in MoP. The game has remained 'easy' in one sense - but they added the 'challenge' mode for those who didn't want easy. The problem, imo, is that the combat/dungeons are still 'easy' but you can challenge yourself to see 'how fast you can do it'. I guess in some respects you could call this 'difficult'; but to me it isn't the same thing - you can win the battles easily, but it is difficult to beat the timer.....not the same.

To be truly honest, I feel sympathy for Blizzard here. Not every WoW player is of the same mind. How could millions and millions all be lock-step in their opinions? It is obvious Blizzard is trying to respond to their customers - but how do you herd that many cats? I guess it is like Lincoln said:

"You can fool all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people, all of the time. And then the vampires come." .....or something like that.

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2660

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

7/25/13 11:50:19 AM#24
Originally posted by strangiato2112

5.3 and 5.4 are trying to move away from dailies, so that change is good.

 

WoW tinkers with classes *far* too much though.  Many classes play completely different than they used to, which is terrible design and has definitely contributed to the churn

The frequency in which they buff, nerf, or tune classes is astonishingly bad.  Either they are inept or they are seeking the perfect balance.  My guess it's the latter but the issue is the loot has a far greater effect on the balance of the classes then their toolset ever will.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  Wakygreek

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 4/30/08
Posts: 1244

Reason is a necessity

7/25/13 12:13:18 PM#25
Originally posted by eccoton
Originally posted by MikeJezZ
Originally posted by strangiato2112

5.3 and 5.4 are trying to move away from dailies, so that change is good.

 

WoW tinkers with classes *far* too much though.  Many classes play completely different than they used to, which is terrible design and has definitely contributed to the churn

This is why I left my rogue after 8 years.

I think it is funny that back 3 to 4 years into the game Blizzard changed and added very little and people complained about the lack of change. Now they complain about change. I go back to something I have said many times. Most people did not leave because of change. They blame change as the reason since they don't want to face the fact that after nearly eight years they were simply bored. If WOW released in the state it is now and evolved into vanilla WOW people would be pissed and claimed they killed the game. People, eight years is a longtime to play any mmo even EQ. Blizzard has done a good job at trying to keep WOW fresh. Somethings worked some did not but over all WOW is a better experience now then back 6 years ago. You just got bored.

Yes and no, I don't think boredom is so much the problem as managing wants vs need. Change is not a bad thing, however knowing what change is necessary and what change is not is the keynote here. The major issues with WoW is not that they tried to change and be more competetive. Its that they applied the wrong changes which impacted the overall game. Anytime you make a change, you have to understand exactly what the change impacts in the long run. I think that Blizzard was trying to hard to compete to keep their game fresh, that they in turn ruined their game by making vast changes to systems that were not required. I could be a lot more specific but I am far too lazy to go over all of Blizzards blunders with WoW.

 

TLDR: Blizzards major blunder was focusing on fixing the now and not focused on fixing the what will happen down the road. Change is good, too much change is infectious and problematic. EQ suffered from going down this road to some extent, that in 2 expansions per year seperated the player base.

  Ravenmane

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/07
Posts: 246

I wish to have no connection with any ship that does not sail fast for I intend to go in harm's way.

7/25/13 12:17:02 PM#26

The sad truth is the casual market is by far much larger than the hardcore market so ease of play is going to be a big factor.  Then when you have the subscription numbers like WoW has (it's not a trick, they actually keep track) they will cater to the larger crowd versus the smaller one.  Some opinions on the changes are just that...opinions.  But people tend to forget that (especially on this site where everybody thinks they are the final say on features).  I dislike the class changes.  I don't think it really makes you stand out anymore.  I do like the ease of leveling, especially after having a 90 that did everything on the vanilla leveling system per expansion pack.  It makes it easier and not so grindy to get another character up there.  I think it's a smart move to make gear easier to get because it keeps the population coming back. 

 

The reason it has huge numbers still is, for most, it was their first MMO.  It's like home to them.  It's where they grew up MMO'ing and they'll never forget the memories and sometimes they will go back to see how things are.  I enjoy WoW.  It is not my only MMO I subscribe to (Eve Online) and it still brings in new blood.  I seem to find a new WoW player almost daily which is impressive regarding its age.  But that's the other thing people don't like.  One of the biggest things I read about WoW when it comes to negative posts...its Age and how old it is.  So what?  It's an old game, who really cares?  I think some of the negativity is people enjoyed a game with a low pop that is newer and they hate seeing WoW's success.  And that's in every aspect of society.  We don't like seeing success where we, in our own opinions, don't want to see success.  So we will bash it as every turn.

 

WoW isn't going anywhere, anytime soon.  People need to get over that and just move on to whatever it is they enjoy playing.  IMO with the scrapping on the current build of Titan, and the additional hiring of artists and programmers they may eb working on two MMO projects.  Titan (whenever that'll be done) and WoW 2, or as I would probably call it Azeroth:  The Fourth Age.

"If at first you don't succeed, excessive force is probably the answer."

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 18811

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

7/25/13 12:40:27 PM#27
Originally posted by ReallyNow10

The problem I have with WOW is its last four years of development seem to take on this concept that the game needs to have frequent changes and Continuous Quality Improvement (CQI).  The latter is a business concept in which processes need continuous monitoring and tweaks to improve quality; a never-ending process of change.

The problem with this is it steals away the fantasy theme of "always", in which there is this simple beautiful world which always is.  Also, the never-ending change is frustrating to many as it causes us to relearn how to play over and over and over.  Change, even positive change, causes churn (i.e., some in the player base will quit because of it).

So, over-simplification and CQI (continuous change), IMO, drives players away.  Certainly drove me away; I'm just sick of every time I sit down at the WOW table, the rules have changed.  Also, IMO, development management doesn't know what the h#$L they're doing; they're driving this game into the ground and fast.

Excellent post, and I realized after reading it that I fall clearly into this category.  Looking back at my MMORPG history, in many cases I quit MMO's including WOW just before or shortly after a major expansion came out.

Why? Because I'm slow to master the content, and never am "finished" with what is already there before the next expansion comes out. (and it doesn't help that I'm a "completionist" who needs to finish every possible quest a game has)

I quit WOW just before BC came for many reasons, but thinking back now, one of the greatest is that my guild was just getting ready to tackle the Twin Emps and then Cthun, but BC came along, made it no need to do it, and I was quite frustrated that my guild broke up and we never got to tackle the 4 horseman.

DAOC drove me off several times with each new expansion, SI at first (I came back and managed to cope) but then when TOA came and completely changed everything, followed up with New Frontiers, I was pretty much done with it.  In fact, I am currently playing a freeshard version of it that doesn't have either of these expansions, and I've been completely happy for more than 3 months now doing content I left behind almost 9 years ago)

I hate having expansions come along and invalidate the content that I had my heart set on doing, which is usually the case for most games. I guess I'm getting my 2nd chance now with the freeshard in this regard.

EVE is the one exception, no matter how many times I come back, each expansion only adds to the game, and I can easily choose to either join in the new content, as I did with wormholes and incursions, or ignore them and just go back to 0.0, or mission running or whatever, and those activities are all going on just as strong as when I first joined well over 5 years ago.

"In these forums 'honest' seems to be a symonym for 'hates the game just like I do'" - ohioastro
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  Zorgo

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/05/05
Posts: 2194

Who did wrong? The advertiser hired to sell the game or the consumer who put faith in advertising?

7/25/13 12:54:36 PM#28
Originally posted by Kyleran
 

Excellent post, and I realized after reading it that I fall clearly into this category.  Looking back at my MMORPG history, in many cases I quit MMO's including WOW just before or shortly after a major expansion came out.

Why? Because I'm slow to master the content, and never am "finished" with what is already there before the next expansion comes out. (and it doesn't help that I'm a "completionist" who needs to finish every possible quest a game has)

*snip*

I hate having expansions come along and invalidate the content that I had my heart set on doing, which is usually the case for most games. I guess I'm getting my 2nd chance now with the freeshard in this regard.

EVE is the one exception, no matter how many times I come back, each expansion only adds to the game, and I can easily choose to either join in the new content, as I did with wormholes and incursions, or ignore them and just go back to 0.0, or mission running or whatever, and those activities are all going on just as strong as when I first joined well over 5 years ago.

I have always wondered why expansions made old content obsolete - and I think it hit me. 

We all know what a ghost town 90% of the game is if you aren't in that initial 'wave' after release. Imagine if, in order to get to content from the expansion, you still had to complete the regular game - yet new folks coming in won't have a whole lot of people to play with in the 'dead' content. 

How do we combat this? At least in WoW, they chose to make the old 'end game' obsolete and speed up the leveling - plus make it all soloable. 

It is understandable, but totally frustrating. I wish all games could figure out a way that the new content 'supplements' the old rather than replacing it. But I think in addition they have to tackle the monumental task of figuring out how to combat the ghost town for new players, who would need to access all that old content to progress, but also need a population to do it with.

I wonder what retention rate would be like in WoW if they never up'd the progression curve. Hype for an expansion may not be what it is today....."A new expansion, gee whiz, guess I'll see that in 4 years......=p".  Would  you start a game which would take years to reach end game? Or - one where you may never catch up to the newest content?

Funny enough, if I had folks to play with and the game was solid - I might.

The obvious solution to me is exactly what you noted - a well made sandbox avoids this completely.

  doodphace

Elite Member

Joined: 6/19/12
Posts: 1302

7/25/13 1:15:05 PM#29
Originally posted by Zorgo

I have always wondered why expansions made old content obsolete - and I think it hit me. 

We all know what a ghost town 90% of the game is if you aren't in that initial 'wave' after release. Imagine if, in order to get to content from the expansion, you still had to complete the regular game - yet new folks coming in won't have a whole lot of people to play with in the 'dead' content.

Well, ironicly enough, I think SWTOR kind of accidentially found a solution to this. Seeing as the current level cap of 55 only has 4 hardmode dungons, they made it so that you can queue for the lvl 50 ones, and still get lesser daily endgame commendations (my guess is to make up for the lack of lvl 55 dungons, this also applies to SM raids). The ilvl difference and power isnt all that much from 50-55, therefore the lvl 50 hardmodes arnt necessarly a cake walk, esp for brand new 55s. I guess the moral of the story is ease up on the stat inflation from xpac to xpac, and offer a lesser but still usefull reward for doing old content.

  Lord.Bachus

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8563

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

7/29/13 6:01:45 AM#30
Originally posted by strangiato2112

5.3 and 5.4 are trying to move away from dailies, so that change is good.

 

WoW tinkers with classes *far* too much though.  Many classes play completely different than they used to, which is terrible design and has definitely contributed to the churn

With every expansion pack they totally overhaul the whole class system, in general making stuff easier, but i got no clue why they are doing this?

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations)
Currently playing : The Elder Scrolls Online and Wildstar

  bingbongbros

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/21/10
Posts: 569

7/29/13 6:12:13 AM#31

mmo's have been doing this for years. It isn't just WoW that radically changes their game every expansion or every certain update.  And it is really annoying and has made me leave games since 98'.

Nexus drove me away when they made a cash shop and shifted the game from evolving world legend into a fashion show.

EQ1 drove me away when it made LDoN, and turned the game into an instanced dungeon grind.  Which WoW then copied completely and added !'s above npc's.

I played Rift for a long time but I gave up when SL invalidated everything I had done.

 

It is just the way mmo's have always been.  The longer they are out the more the dev team will destroy its own creation.  There are some players out there that like this type of shit and it's why it will never change.  But a lot of players, myself included, are driven away by this evolution style.

Mmo design is kinda like if it ain't broke hit it with a sledgehammer.

Playing: Smite
Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO
Waiting On: Nothing really, though Black Desert looks pretty amazing so far.

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2672

There... are... four... lights!

7/29/13 6:13:30 AM#32

They started to dumb down parts of the game that didn't need to be dumbed down, like character development (the new talent system is a joke) and world quests (made totally linear and boring, with no choice but to follow the main quest line of a zone).

Result: They dropped from almost 13 million players during the heights of Lich King to less than 8 millions now, and they keep on losing more players.

They reap what they sow. Nobody asked for those dumb changes.

Playing now: Archeage, WoW, Landmark, GW2

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  jimdandy26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 559

7/29/13 6:16:24 AM#33
I love the armchair devs throwing out opinions as fact with absolutely no real data to back it up. The lack of metrics is staggering.

I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  Xiaoki

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/07/04
Posts: 2428

7/29/13 6:21:27 AM#34


Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

Originally posted by strangiato2112 5.3 and 5.4 are trying to move away from dailies, so that change is good.   WoW tinkers with classes *far* too much though.  Many classes play completely different than they used to, which is terrible design and has definitely contributed to the churn
With every expansion pack they totally overhaul the whole class system, in general making stuff easier, but i got no clue why they are doing this?


Because a lot of times what seems like a good idea on paper is a really bad idea when implemented into the game. Its just that most MMOs are too proud to admit that.


People keep saying how great Vanilla WoW but nearly all of the classes were just horrible. Paladins were especially bad.


Also, if classes being changed every 2 years is too much for people to understand then maybe they shouldnt be playing MMOs.


Is learning really that scary?

  DiSpLiFF

Novice Member

Joined: 5/19/09
Posts: 611

7/29/13 6:27:17 AM#35

I think the simple fact is this game is almost 8 years old now. 

There is only so long a game can keep people interested. If you're going to blame sub numbers on something i'd say it's that. I'm sure there aren't many new players joining the game who haven't played it already. 

I've always been curious as to how many box sales this game has had over the years. 

  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16473

7/29/13 6:28:21 AM#36
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
The game has been under my radar for to long... Any word on them implementing dynamic events, they allways took the good stuff from others and made it better...

Not the GW2 styled DEs, it would require too much work.

Arenanet wanted to implement them into Guildwars: Utopia but realized it was so much work that they made a sequel instead.

If Blizzard add that type of DEs it will be to Titan or Wow 2, not Wow.

They could add Rifts of WAR type of DEs though, that is a lot easier and faster.

  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16473

7/29/13 6:34:30 AM#37
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

They started to dumb down parts of the game that didn't need to be dumbed down, like character development (the new talent system is a joke) and world quests (made totally linear and boring, with no choice but to follow the main quest line of a zone).

Result: They dropped from almost 13 million players during the heights of Lich King to less than 8 millions now, and they keep on losing more players.

They reap what they sow. Nobody asked for those dumb changes.

You don't think that drop also can have something to do with the game getting over 8 years old? And people seems to tire somewhat on raid centric MMOs as well. Not too mention that many MMO players seems to prefer F2P or B2P nowadays.

They did loose over 5 million players which is more than a third of the population but I think it is a mix between many things that did it. And there were frankly as many threads about WoW being dumbed down already during it's top.

Yes, it did turn some players away but it is far from the only reason that they lost so many players. The question is more how they will try to get those players back.

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 18811

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

7/29/13 7:41:39 AM#38
Originally posted by Loke666
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

They started to dumb down parts of the game that didn't need to be dumbed down, like character development (the new talent system is a joke) and world quests (made totally linear and boring, with no choice but to follow the main quest line of a zone).

Result: They dropped from almost 13 million players during the heights of Lich King to less than 8 millions now, and they keep on losing more players.

They reap what they sow. Nobody asked for those dumb changes.

You don't think that drop also can have something to do with the game getting over 8 years old? And people seems to tire somewhat on raid centric MMOs as well. Not too mention that many MMO players seems to prefer F2P or B2P nowadays.

They did loose over 5 million players which is more than a third of the population but I think it is a mix between many things that did it. And there were frankly as many threads about WoW being dumbed down already during it's top.

Yes, it did turn some players away but it is far from the only reason that they lost so many players. The question is more how they will try to get those players back.

 

Oh, I think it's pretty obvious what they plan on doing to get people back. F2P with cash shop is coming (they'll retain a sub option of course) but it will bring people back in droves, heck I might even drop back in to see if anyone I used to play with is still around.

"In these forums 'honest' seems to be a symonym for 'hates the game just like I do'" - ohioastro
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  infofront

Novice Member

Joined: 12/26/07
Posts: 158

8/02/13 10:52:36 PM#39
Originally posted by Xiaoki

 


Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

Originally posted by strangiato2112 5.3 and 5.4 are trying to move away from dailies, so that change is good.   WoW tinkers with classes *far* too much though.  Many classes play completely different than they used to, which is terrible design and has definitely contributed to the churn
With every expansion pack they totally overhaul the whole class system, in general making stuff easier, but i got no clue why they are doing this?

Because a lot of times what seems like a good idea on paper is a really bad idea when implemented into the game. Its just that most MMOs are too proud to admit that.

 


People keep saying how great Vanilla WoW but nearly all of the classes were just horrible. Paladins were especially bad.


Also, if classes being changed every 2 years is too much for people to understand then maybe they shouldnt be playing MMOs.


Is learning really that scary?

All of the classes were horrible? There were major balance issues. Paladins and warlocks were pretty bad at the beginning. Priests had no DPS until they got deep into the shadow tree. Other than that, they were all basically fun and useful.

I think trying to bring too much balance into the game backfired. Now every single class can DPS. Both alliance and horde have the paladin and shaman. The game has become too polished in a way. In early vanilla WoW, the unbalanced classes were part of the charm.

  Grummus

Novice Member

Joined: 7/28/13
Posts: 114

8/02/13 11:25:08 PM#40
Originally posted by bingbongbros

mmo's have been doing this for years. It isn't just WoW that radically changes their game every expansion or every certain update.  And it is really annoying and has made me leave games since 98'.

Nexus drove me away when they made a cash shop and shifted the game from evolving world legend into a fashion show.

EQ1 drove me away when it made LDoN, and turned the game into an instanced dungeon grind.  Which WoW then copied completely and added !'s above npc's.

I played Rift for a long time but I gave up when SL invalidated everything I had done.

 

It is just the way mmo's have always been.  The longer they are out the more the dev team will destroy its own creation.  There are some players out there that like this type of shit and it's why it will never change.  But a lot of players, myself included, are driven away by this evolution style.

Mmo design is kinda like if it ain't broke hit it with a sledgehammer.

 

I was in one of the first guilds to clear PoTime, some of those LDON raids were REAL ball busters.

 

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