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Developers Corner 

MMORPG Game Concepts  » AAA title developers, let me give you some advice.

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73 posts found
  drazeni

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/26/05
Posts: 8

7/22/13 8:22:47 PM#21

Originally posted by nariusseldon


My advice is to ignore this guy, and learn from those who actually are successful in selling games.

 


Originally posted by botrytis


Originally posted by Spector88

I consider myself an MMORPG purist. If there is such a thing.

I've written blogs in the past yadda yadda, basically I started playing MMO's in the mid 90s before I was old enough to have a license. I crushed through english, writing, vocabulary etc, because I was interacting online daily with adults who had no idea who I was other than who I portrayed myself to be. I played in unique, different games, with creative ideas, immersive communities, and fun content.

I understand years go into development of a AAA title, I just don't understand how entire companies can't figure the hell out, what is pretty easily seen.

tldr; AAA titles are being made for a quick buck, and by people trying to be cute, instead of trying to listen to what people want, fill avoid, and make difficult decisions to make a successful long standing game, where people spend their money because they're happy, not because they feel forced to.

First, quit being cute.

Similar to GM's for sports teams, quit trying to pull something out of right field (drafted some nobody with your first pick) and then try to look smart. It's pretty plain to see what the majority of players like and wish for in a game, then make it happen. The most successful companies make it happen, they dont make excuses. What are some of the biggest things players want? They want things like PLAYER HOUSING, yet, only a few games ever have it. They want things like immersive wide open worlds, yet we get this streamlined follow A to B to C to D, kill a few rats, go to C then to B, A. What is this crap? Do you really think anyone is going to feel immersed in a cage and invisible walls?

There is so many innovative ideas out there from games you could use or re-invent. Have any of these idiots played MMORPG's?

Asheron's Call:

Comprehensive allegiance system. Guild housing, mentor/following system involving your mentor getting a % of bonus XP for your allegiance to him and the "guild". This gave benenfits to not only recruit and grow your guild, but to keep people sworn TO YOU, so you get rewards by being good and mentoring THEM.

The Realm Online:

The Realm was one of the first MMORPG's it got 'rare' items right. By creating ultra cool glowing effect, and super rare cosmetic find only items, most games today 15 years later can't even grasp the concept that people want to look and feel badass. Why can't I find a glowing sword, or flaming shield at level 4? We have games coming out in 2013, where you wear the same armor models for 20 levels that look like peasant rags from the 1500's.

Open Worlds:

EQ, Asherons Call, Darkfall Online. Why are we not making MMO's more MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER, why are we making them RPG with online elements? Why are we not fighting to control dungeons or resources, why are we not interacting with other people other than click on a PC to teleport to a place to teleport to another place? I'm all for speedy traveling, but you're not making worlds anymore, you're making fantasy call of duty maps.

Secondly, quit rushing games to sell boxes, and then hanging your hat

Every game wants to be the 'WoW' killer, every game wants to be known as a success yadda yadda. The fact is most of these games know they're going to make a majority of their profit within the first 3 months of release. They pump out some disappointing game way too soon, sell a bajillion boxes and then say hey look we're so awesome we sold this many boxes. When really they just pissed off thousands of people with some crap piss poor product. WE KNOW GOOD GAMES WITH STAYING POWER MAKE MONEY. League of Legends is free to play, you know how much of my money I've given them? You know why they're the most played PC game in the world? BECAUSE THEY GET IT. They make a game to be FUN. Then they know the cash will come.

Quit making F2P games Pay2Win, if I LOVED a game, it was balanced, fun, immersive, why wouldn't I spend money on cosmetic items, upgrades, etc. If you could just see past making a quick buck for the love of god.

One of the biggest examples of this comes to mind is Diablo III. The game was not ready, it got rushed out, a ton of promises broken, to this day has very little end game, had ANYONE on that mother *#!( staff actually played Inferno at max level, they would have realized you couldnt PAY ME to play it. Furthest thing from fun, immersive, or worth while. But what do I get, all these articles about how many boxes they've sold etc. They should be ashamed, they're project leader should be fired... Oh wait...

Lastly, and more importantly. Please start making games FOR gamers.

There is way too much 'ACTIVISION' and 'TIME WARNER' in todays MMO world. Way too many people making big development decisions that know nothing about the staying power of a game. I read an article last year when I was sitting in my apocalyptic MMO state, 'games aren't being made for gamers anymore, they're being made for the casual fan'. It is true, games are streamlined, instanced, dumbed down, easier. Look, I'm all for including everyone, but who is going to spread the word? Who is going to wait in line, wear t-shirts, get their friends to buy the game, keep forums, internet reviews positive, and push your game... GAMERS. The dude who buys the game for 40$ and gets to level 5, yeah you made money off him, but making a game stupid enough that someone like that is the only one who enjoys it.. Is just wrong.

Make good games. For gamers. Games you would want to play. WIth ideas you know we want. In ways, we couldn't see coming. Casuals will come, money will come, success will come.

......

Or buy the rights to more asian games and move them to P2W.

 

 

Can I laugh here? An MMO purist? Snob yes. Your post is more of a rant and why would a company even listen to a rant.

 

I will use GW2 as an example. I am still wanting Guild Halls and GvG in the game and they said, they were going to put it in. Well, they hit a deadline and if you can't do something right, leave it out, so they did. The same can be said for D3 - it was exactly what I expected it to be. I didn't play it long and felt I got my monies worth. I am hoping for GW2 guild halls soon.

 

Companies will not put out games that don't make money - PERIOD. If you make games for the majority of people, on this site, there will not be enough money made to support the game. That is plain as plain as the nose on your face (I count myself as one also, so don't get your panties in a bunch). 

 

The reason games have be come easier, is the computers are more powerful and you can make programs more complex, up to a point. There is nothing wrong with easy, if it is fun. Fun makes the game for me.

 


[mod edit]

the O.P Has the right idea I had hoped that The industry would Tern around and see that they are making Garbage games.

but I guess they are making to much money making these Horrible Games  (Guild wars 1 &2, D3, Tabula rasa, SWOTOR)

just to name a few. 

I just don't understand how they went from making awesome Games like FFxi, SWG, EVE, WOW(I don't count panda land )

if you haven't seen it yet check out star citizen It looks amazing and the guy seems to have the right idea guess that's why He has made Over 15million dollars in Crowd funding From 'Hard core' gamers before he has even Finished the game.

just go's to show you there is a buck to be made doing things the right way.

its true MMO's do need to be playable for the casual gamer but not at the cost of Gameplay or long term playability.

an awesome Example of the extreme of this would be Dota / LOL and EVE online, Both dota and LOL have no real Benefit to playing Long term unless you are amazing and can Get paid to play. EVE online is a game only for the Hardcore gamer its the kind of game you play and 10 months later your like Holy fuck i am 10 months later for work.

they are both amazing games and i like them both but neither has what i want.

and that is why i am at uni studying 3d animation and game designe so i can try change the industry from with in.

 

P.s Sorry for the Spelling

 

 

 

  onlinenow25

Novice Member

Joined: 6/26/07
Posts: 278

7/22/13 9:00:35 PM#22
Originally posted by KBishop
Originally posted by Spector88
Lastly, and more importantly. Please start making games FOR gamers.

There is way too much 'ACTIVISION' and 'TIME WARNER' in todays MMO world. Way too many people making big development decisions that know nothing about the staying power of a game. I read an article last year when I was sitting in my apocalyptic MMO state, 'games aren't being made for gamers anymore, they're being made for the casual fan'. It is true, games are streamlined, instanced, dumbed down, easier. Look, I'm all for including everyone, but who is going to spread the word? Who is going to wait in line, wear t-shirts, get their friends to buy the game, keep forums, internet reviews positive, and push your game... GAMERS. The dude who buys the game for 40$ and gets to level 5, yeah you made money off him, but making a game stupid enough that someone like that is the only one who enjoys it.. Is just wrong.

Make good games. For gamers. Games you would want to play. WIth ideas you know we want. In ways, we couldn't see coming. Casuals will come, money will come, success will come.

......

Or buy the rights to more asian games and move them to P2W.

 

 

I always get a kick out of people who say this. I have a good buddy who dislikes the direction of SF4 and says that it's being made for casuals and not for gamers... as he still plays SF4.

There really is a sort of superiority complex from people who claim that they are true gamers, and that games that aren't obliging to some of the original obsurdities are not being made for gamers anymore. Some people absolutely swear that Castlevania 1 was the hardest game ever and that games should be made like it, while being completely unwilling to admit that the majority of the difficulty was because of ass poor controls. Some people liked how in debth the first zelda was while completely forgetting that most of the public had to buy a guide because the game was incredibly cryptic. Some people think that MMO's should go back to the grind while not being willing to admit that spending 6-8 hours to kill one guy is pretty ridiculous.

Gamers hold on to this idea that because they managed, that the horrible design should stay the same. They then go on to parade this attitude that their way is the true way all in spite of the fact that when games DID cater to them, companies flopped.

Are you talking about Street Fight 4?  The Fighting game with some of the most strict input timings of a fighter made?  Some of the input time lengths being 1 frame which is 1/60th of a second, which is said to be the fastest a human can react?  Your friend isn't a purest but a snob that probably dosn't know much about Street Fight in the slightest.

Which is your point but, aside from the snobbish tone at the start of the Post, with some of his not so great examples the end of his post has some merit.  Games are made for a quick profit.  They are not being made for the long term profit, something that is no longer a standard business practice.  He did make a good point about building a "legacy" as he called it, which refers customer retention not always finding new customers.

OP's post could have had a better tone with more subjective examples but did bring up good points, even if these points have been brought up many times.

  KBishop

Novice Member

Joined: 7/08/13
Posts: 205

7/22/13 9:32:10 PM#23
Originally posted by onlinenow25
Originally posted by KBishop

I always get a kick out of people who say this. I have a good buddy who dislikes the direction of SF4 and says that it's being made for casuals and not for gamers... as he still plays SF4.

There really is a sort of superiority complex from people who claim that they are true gamers, and that games that aren't obliging to some of the original obsurdities are not being made for gamers anymore. Some people absolutely swear that Castlevania 1 was the hardest game ever and that games should be made like it, while being completely unwilling to admit that the majority of the difficulty was because of ass poor controls. Some people liked how in debth the first zelda was while completely forgetting that most of the public had to buy a guide because the game was incredibly cryptic. Some people think that MMO's should go back to the grind while not being willing to admit that spending 6-8 hours to kill one guy is pretty ridiculous.

Gamers hold on to this idea that because they managed, that the horrible design should stay the same. They then go on to parade this attitude that their way is the true way all in spite of the fact that when games DID cater to them, companies flopped.

Are you talking about Street Fight 4?  The Fighting game with some of the most strict input timings of a fighter made?  Some of the input time lengths being 1 frame which is 1/60th of a second, which is said to be the fastest a human can react?  Your friend isn't a purest but a snob that probably dosn't know much about Street Fight in the slightest.

Which is your point but, aside from the snobbish tone at the start of the Post, with some of his not so great examples the end of his post has some merit.  Games are made for a quick profit.  They are not being made for the long term profit, something that is no longer a standard business practice.  He did make a good point about building a "legacy" as he called it, which refers customer retention not always finding new customers.

OP's post could have had a better tone with more subjective examples but did bring up good points, even if these points have been brought up many times.

I am talking about Street Fighter 4, and yea he can be a bit of a snob lol.

I specifically skipped his first two points for 2 reasons. Being cute is an artistic choice. Some games take different artistic routes to distinguish themselves. If a "gamer" is too put off by how a game looks rather than how it plays, then they are looking at things incredibly superficially, and I think on any and every ground that a person like that has no business critiquing games, both on a game design level and on an artistic level. Meanwhile, I agree games shouldn't be rushed. No product should.

The problem is this guy, among many others, don't know how businesses works. A game company wont survive on a legacy or on the OP and other gamers good and warm feelings they got from playing. They survive on money. If a company has a model to get more people to buy the game NOW, then  it is as vital to company as it is for you to drink water. This is only amplified when you have indie companies, which more and more games are being developed under.

The cold hard truth is that the companies don't care about the die hard fans because they can't afford to. They are spending 100-200million dollars per MMO. The companies need to bleed as much blood out of a turnip as they can, and focusing on the smallest minority is a decision that will KILL a company.

 

  maplestone

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 3109

7/22/13 10:43:39 PM#24
Originally posted by Arclan

 

But, go ask how smart the team of SWTOR (who got laid off) feel. In many cases, stupid professionals are just that.

I try not to kick people when they are down.  Having once been a unicorn (aka: the last cubical with the lights on in an entire office building), I got to witness a lot of coworkers who were brighter and better than me by any measure I could think of being let go.

  killahh

Novice Member

Joined: 8/25/04
Posts: 454

As famous as the unknown soldier

7/22/13 10:54:57 PM#25

its this kind of attitude that makes me cringe.

 

 i too have played mmorpgs over 20 years,  i too have plumbed the depths of  paper and pen D&D, I too have dabbled in 3D animation,  beta tested games forever, have some of my work published in certain games over the years, and have friends that are indie game devs, and the only thing i ever say to them is follow your heart, don't cave into to what others want you to make, do it for yourself and be proud, and hey if you make out like a bandit good for you.

no game will give everything to everyone, so if you like a game, play it, if not move on.

 

cheers

 

 

Gonada Dahung,over 20 years of mmorpg's and counting....Please Lord, let someone make a game that had all the awesomeness of UO, EQ and EVE...

  DamonVile

Elite Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4385

7/22/13 11:26:36 PM#26
The OPs post is the same ....pile of stuff... people throw into every post about where mmos are and everyone agrees....but apparently when you put it all together and make it a single rant suddenly it's cringe worthy.

People are like cats. When they die, you get a new one.

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

7/23/13 1:12:12 AM#27

I knew there would be trouble when the post started with "credentials" like 'played a lot of MMORPGs', and 'wrote a blog'.

But I stayed with it until I reached the inevitable, "you idiots."

Somehow I doubt developers are eager to listen to this sort of insultuous drivel.

OP read my criticism of you criticizing the industry.

  • First: are you inclineD to change your ways as a result of my criticism, or do you plan on ignoring me as some random asshole on the internet?
  • Second: with your reaction in mind, how likely do you think developers are to change their ways as a result of your criticism?  (Keep in mind that my criticism fell considerably short of insults, unlike yours.)
  Aldous.Huxley

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/04/13
Posts: 443

7/23/13 1:17:31 AM#28
If only Scientologists would make an mmorpg based upon the L. Ron, everything would be okay.
  tawess

Elite Member

Joined: 3/24/05
Posts: 1899

7/23/13 1:23:49 AM#29

First off i like how the OP try to paint a picture that there was ever a time when game in general (and mmo´s in particular) were not made in order to make money... Sure the team that makes the game most likley care more for the craft then the end line but they sure as heck like to get a pay-check each month.

 

Beyond that the market have proved that the type of games that was made at the dawn of mmo´s are going the way of the vinyl record player... There is no doubt that there is a market out there still, but it is way to small to sustain any real development in the area. In fact the core of the gaming subculture is to small to sustain the costs of making games these days. That is why you see developers and publishers work so hard to find new markets.

This have been a good conversation

  VengeSunsoar

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4713

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

7/23/13 1:26:52 AM#30
Now you've done it.  You've brought up the vinyl record vs digital sound debate egads.

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 6561

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

7/23/13 2:40:04 AM#31

Sadly these are businesses and are in it to make a living,the game will always take a back seat to the business side of development.

There is a huge catch twenty two.No developer is willing to risk doing it MUCH better,as NOTHING is certain.SO all the devs are basically doing it the same but trying to find some cute PR marketing to sell us the same old same old.

I do not expect this trend to change for a very long time,it is just too costly too risk it.The ONLY way we will see a big jump in improvement is if some multi billionaire oil tycoon from Texas  wants a great game built Jurassic park style "Bar no expense".

SWTOR took 200 million and although it is not a bad game,there is no depth in ANY of it's systems.So how much more money did they need another 100 million?Scary to think,i wouldn't risk 300 million on a video game,not even if touched by the HOG.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Napolianboo#p/u/15/rCYLLQCNc1w
Samoan Diamond

  Spector88

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/22/05
Posts: 98

Into the fray...

 
OP  7/23/13 9:11:15 AM#32
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
So choices are either:

A. Listen to op and get a game that takes 3-10 years togrow a base of players od 50-500k that will stay for years.

Or

B. Don't listen to op,sell 2 million boxes right away and end up with... a base of 50-500K that will stay around for years.

Gotcha.

 

Actually the choice is

A) Make a game in 2-3 years, selling 2 million boxes, and have your player based be less than 50k within 6 months

or

B) Make a game 4-5 years +, listen to what people want, make a quality game, sell 500k-1million boxes, and over a 2-3 year period have millions of subs (aka WoW model).

You won't see 20-50k subs or players in a game that gets it right, you'll see a lot more. Fans are hungry.

All I'm trying to say is that if someone did it the right way they may see less box sales initially but World of Warcraft (sorry, its the standard to compare to) Didn't start out as some huge juggernaut of success. They became that by good development, word of mouth, fan recruitment, and luck and timing.

-

I'm not trying to say every game that comes out is complete garbage. Of all the NEWER MMO's the one I'm most inclined to say is pretty good is Rift. But even Rift has a lot of holes for me.

I think LOTRO is a good free to play title for what it is. *Shrug*

  Lord.Bachus

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8547

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

7/23/13 9:22:08 AM#33
Originally posted by ElderRat

Seems MMO's are no longer the cash cow - moba's are the thing now. So, hopefully, the developers who want to make quick money will go there, and the one or 2 that want to make a game for gamers can get down to it.  

 

Easy to develope

easy accesible

 

and they make tons of money...

 

but no imersion, no depth, just flashy gameplay... These moba are games for the boys... And yes there is a lot of money..

 

but personally i think the huge money is in virtual worlds that can bind whole families and groups of friends to them,  being both game and social network at the same time...

 

offer a gameworld, thats an improved version of 2nd life, is an mmo, has rts elements, and allows people to build their virtual homes and have their far off adventures... And the add a huge bunch of minigames..   

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations)
Currently playing : The Elder Scrolls Online and Wildstar

  NagelRitter

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/18/13
Posts: 613

7/23/13 9:25:54 AM#34
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

but no imersion, no depth, just flashy gameplay... These moba are games for the boys... And yes there is a lot of money..

You do realize that there are different kinds of games and genres out there, and they aren't really in conflict? For boys, really? Do you consider every multiplayer game "for boys"? Please take your Dota-like hate elsewhere.

Favorite MMO: Vanilla WoW
Currently playing: GW2, EVE
Excited for: Wildstar, maybe?

  Spector88

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/22/05
Posts: 98

Into the fray...

 
OP  7/23/13 9:27:48 AM#35

 

but no imersion, no depth, just flashy gameplay... These moba are games for the boys... And yes there is a lot of money..

 

Eh. They are a lot more refreshing than any MMO's that have come out as of late. Extremely skill and knowledge based. High learning curve. Nothing easy about them. There is FAR more 15-16 year olds who can crush WoW and end game raids than top MOBA charts.

That being said, to me they are side games. 'Call of Duty' of PC for me.

  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

7/23/13 9:31:34 AM#36
Originally posted by Spector88

Actually the choice is

A) Make a game in 2-3 years, selling 2 million boxes, and have your player based be less than 50k within 6 months

or

B) Make a game 4-5 years +, listen to what people want, make a quality game, sell 500k-1million boxes, and over a 2-3 year period have millions of subs (aka WoW model).

You won't see 20-50k subs or players in a game that gets it right, you'll see a lot more. Fans are hungry.

All I'm trying to say is that if someone did it the right way they may see less box sales initially but World of Warcraft (sorry, its the standard to compare to) Didn't start out as some huge juggernaut of success. They became that by good development, word of mouth, fan recruitment, and luck and timing.

-

I'm not trying to say every game that comes out is complete garbage. Of all the NEWER MMO's the one I'm most inclined to say is pretty good is Rift. But even Rift has a lot of holes for me.

I think LOTRO is a good free to play title for what it is. *Shrug*

 

That's pretty much the path ArenaNet took with Guild Wars 2, put years into building the game they wanted without the pressure to meet a hard deadline, as a result they've produced a juggernaut and one of the best MMOs on the market. I agree companies need to take their time, have a clear vision and focus on a quality product first and foremost. You build it right and the players will come, and stay. It's rare to see a company continue to grow their development squad this long after release, so something is definitely going well. Had they rushed this... I shudder at what the results could have been.

Oderint, dum metuant.

  udon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/23/07
Posts: 1598

7/23/13 9:39:39 AM#37
Originally posted by Spector88
Originally posted by nariusseldon

My advice is to ignore this guy, and learn from those who actually are successful in selling games.

 

See that's the problem. They may be making money SELLING games, but they aren't building a legacy, or maximizing profit.

You can rush a game out, dumb it down for any idiot off the street, make 5 million off box sales in the first 48 hours, or you can take the right amount of time, make a better game, maybe only sell 2.5million in the first 6 months, but then get a crapload of mouth referals, good reviews, and eventually make 3 times as much and be respected.

 

P.S. if people were that successful right now, please find any sector of the MMO industry that is booming or has a bunch of optimistic people?

 

The genre is dying down. You try to make thar argument when the shelf life of almost every overhyped game on this list is about 4-6 months in the past 5 years. They build up hype, they sell a bunch of boxes, within 6 months the population is less than 20% of launch week. You're telling me thats the way it HAS to be? Please.

The genre isn't dying down but it is changing from things people play for years to 30-60 day consumables that you play than move on much like SPG's are.   I guess your average person just isn't interested in spending several years playing the same game and wants new toys every couple months to play with.  Or put another way the draw of a new shinny new game is greater to your average player than the draw of long term community building.

Don't blame the developers and publishers for responding to consumer demand because honestly everything that's "wrong" with modern MMO's is a response to changes in consumer tastes more than developers have gone off track.  At most you can say that software houses are chasing the wrong market niche and should be focusing more on that part of  the industry that does still want long term games but those kinds of games are MUCH harder to make than 60 day consumables with cash shops meant to draw you into spending as much money as possible for the month or so the average person sticks around.

  KBishop

Novice Member

Joined: 7/08/13
Posts: 205

7/23/13 9:55:21 AM#38
Originally posted by Spector88
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
So choices are either:

A. Listen to op and get a game that takes 3-10 years togrow a base of players od 50-500k that will stay for years.

Or

B. Don't listen to op,sell 2 million boxes right away and end up with... a base of 50-500K that will stay around for years.

Gotcha.

 

Actually the choice is

A) Make a game in 2-3 years, selling 2 million boxes, and have your player based be less than 50k within 6 months

or

B) Make a game 4-5 years +, listen to what people want, make a quality game, sell 500k-1million boxes, and over a 2-3 year period have millions of subs (aka WoW model).

You won't see 20-50k subs or players in a game that gets it right, you'll see a lot more. Fans are hungry.

All I'm trying to say is that if someone did it the right way they may see less box sales initially but World of Warcraft (sorry, its the standard to compare to) Didn't start out as some huge juggernaut of success. They became that by good development, word of mouth, fan recruitment, and luck and timing.

-

I'm not trying to say every game that comes out is complete garbage. Of all the NEWER MMO's the one I'm most inclined to say is pretty good is Rift. But even Rift has a lot of holes for me.

I think LOTRO is a good free to play title for what it is. *Shrug*

That's kind of against your point.

WoW went against the norm and DIDN'T listen to MMORPG fans at the time and made a game to better suit the general public. THATS how they became the juggernaut, because they DIDN'T listen to the die hards and instead listened to everyone else.

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5575

7/23/13 10:15:04 AM#39

Originally posted by maplestone

Originally posted by Arclan

 

But, go ask how smart the team of SWTOR (who got laid off) feel. In many cases, stupid professionals are just that.

I try not to kick people when they are down.  Having once been a unicorn (aka: the last cubical with the lights on in an entire office building), I got to witness a lot of coworkers who were brighter and better than me by any measure I could think of being let go.

Good posts Maplestone.

Originally posted by DamonVile
The OPs post is the same ....pile of stuff... people throw into every post about where mmos are and everyone agrees....but apparently when you put it all together and make it a single rant suddenly it's cringe worthy.

I guess this is a case of "how you say it" not exactly what you say.  The OPs points are overly simplistic, unrealistic, and I think they're juvenile, but had he said them without insults and posturing maybe it would have come across better.

The problem with the OPs arguments is they lack substance and state the obvious.  Of course development shouldn't be rushed.  Yes, developers should consider the needs and wants of their target demographic.  The OP is projecting their personal agenda of what that means on the larger whole and it doesn't hold up.  If the world really wanted another 1st gen game just as it was then the developers would offer that.

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 6822

7/23/13 10:22:12 AM#40


Originally posted by nariusseldon
My advice is to ignore this guy, and learn from those who actually are successful in selling games.

 


I just love how you can nail the thread in first, single, accurate and spot on reply.

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