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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Lots of Story & Phasing in ESO

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57 posts found
  User Deleted
7/20/13 2:28:26 AM#21


Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
Actually phasing when done right is the only thing that can truely give players a single player experience and immersion in an MMO world.  Now many people are not looking for such an experience, but many other more casual players are exactly looking for that.

 

Just ask yourself, did you like the story part of TSW, SWTOR and personal story in GW", then you surely are going to love this as it will give you a Skyrim experience inside an MMO.

 

As long as it is immersive, it can be done, as long as it keeps focussing players on the world and not on the actuall game mechanics, as long as it feels natural withouth to many loading screens, then it will work for the majorrity of MMo players, and thats still where the money is.



I liked TSW. It was a fresh game with good storys, but it felt like a single player game. And the same happens here aswell, first they whent off about 3 fraction pvp game, and when they got the pvper hyped up they changed the game into a single player pve game....wtf

  page975

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/02/13
Posts: 317

7/20/13 5:15:44 AM#22
Originally posted by Rydeson
I'll pass on the phasing TYVM..  That is the only thing I can think technically that is worse then instancing..... Another BAD design mechanic that segregates the community..  WoW had way to much phasing for my liking in the LK expansion and NEVER again..  Phasing belongs in the single player games, not MMO's..

I'll have to pass on this game too.  I call it a game not an mmo because it's not an mmo its something else.

- Phasing

- Mega servers

They call it the way of 2013, I call it crap !

  tazarconan

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/03/07
Posts: 1022

7/20/13 6:55:05 AM#23

All these are insignificant details really. Whether i ll play TES or not depends only an only in just a few things.

1.Combat system how well it will get implemented and if its really working.

2.Character progression system, how deep it is,and with a slow gear improvement so u cant cap everything in just a few months playing.

3. Working and fun pvp

If any of the above aint work THEN id worry about TES .Not though about small details like instancing,phacing etc etc

  DavisFlight

Elite Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2525

7/20/13 11:13:31 AM#24
Originally posted by keithian
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by keithian
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by keithian
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by SlyLoK
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by Rydeson
I'll pass on the phasing TYVM..  That is the only thing I can think technically that is worse then instancing..... Another BAD design mechanic that segregates the community..  WoW had way to much phasing for my liking in the LK expansion and NEVER again..  Phasing belongs in the single player games, not MMO's..

Whether or not they fix it remains to be seen but one of the negatives about the game (which there are many) is the inacessability for groups to play together due to the obtrusive phasing system.  This was addressed on Gamebreaker.TV and Zam's coverage.  For me this is a non issue since I prefer to play solo while leveling up but I am not stupid enough to possibly believe my way of playing is best for everyone and especially those who love to group this will be a huge hindrance.

Only certain quests to players have to split up.. Like in LoTRO where certain story quests could only be done solo. Basically it is just some or maybe even all story quests that are done solo. Everything else does not effect groups at all.

I have never played an MMO where it was harder to just play with friends than LotRO. Splitting people between phases, instances, quest steps, linear locked zones, it was fucking awful. We all joined together thinking we'd be able to adventure and explore but the game does everything it can to limit that.

 

And THAT, is why story based MMOs don't work.

I have no idea what you are talking about. I played with my guildies all the time in that game and I never felt like the game was preventing that. That game had one of the strongest RPG feels to it for a themepark compared to any themepark MMO today. The story kept me glued to the game. I guess everyone sees things differently.

There was very little RPG about following a linear story through linear zones through linear cutscenes with invisible walls sprinkled around everywhere.

Hey, I want to play with my bud Ian! Oh wait, he has a quest to kill 10 rabbits. Well.. he can't share that quest with me for some reason. I have to kill 10 ducks on the other side of the map... guess we can't play together.

Oh let's do this dungeon! Wait, we all need to be on the same step of the same LONG quest chain to enter this dungeon? Because instancing is bullshit? Okay we'll just do the quests together. Wait, the quest chain has a lot of solo steps we can't help each other with? I guess we'll all just solo then!

Wait, you're in a different phase of Archet than I am?

 

So on and so forth.

Meanwhile, in good MMOs.

"Hey man, wanna kill lizards then go to that dungeon?" "Sure!"

lol not every quest was like that, yes like most themeparks it had that, but it had enough story tied to the instanced quests that it felt like Lord of the Rings. There was RPG going on with on the RPG server I played on with the way people spoke to each other, the hanging out in the tavern playing music, etc, and there were multiple ways to level for the same level bracket so you didn't have to be in exactly the same zone with everyone. Maybe you played a different version or were on a different server...or maybe you have bad friends, dont know.

Sure, there was roleplaying, but if the devs wanted to be doing scripted singleplayer instanced linear missions, they should have made a Diablo game, not an MMO.

As it stands, they made a shitty MMO and a shitty COOP game at the same time. The best parts of LotRO were relics of when it was a sandbox game, like the instruments in the taverns. The whole game was supposed to be like that, but they decided to try to ham fist a poor story into it. All that story served to do was make it hard for peopple to just live in Middle Earth.

And come on, lets call it what it was, a WoW clone.

Sure it was a WOW clone, but that doesn't make it a shitty game. A lot of people liked it. Why are you so egocentric?

It made it a pretty shitty MMO, yes. The only good parts were the sandbox elements. But the game is so broken and antisocial. I can't blame people for liking it if they don't know any better.

I have a sore spot for LotRO because it was marketed for years as a sandbox game where you just live in Middle Earth. I even played the alpha version, called Middle Earth Online, and it was a thousand times better than LotRO ever was.

  DavisFlight

Elite Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2525

7/20/13 11:14:33 AM#25
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Rydeson
I'll pass on the phasing TYVM..  That is the only thing I can think technically that is worse then instancing..... Another BAD design mechanic that segregates the community..
 
Yup, MMos that use instancing aren't worth touching.

So why do you keep touching it? I'm amazed you still post in this forum. There must be some sick negative attraction for you.

Typically known as trolling

Trolling would imply I don't believe what I'm saying.

  DavisFlight

Elite Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2525

7/20/13 11:16:42 AM#26
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

Actually phasing when done right is the only thing that can truely give players a single player experience and immersion in an MMO world.

Except an MMO should never try to tell a singleplayer story, because phasing has never done right. All it does is split people up and break immersion.

  thexrated

Novice Member

Joined: 11/26/04
Posts: 1379

7/20/13 11:24:03 AM#27
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

Actually phasing when done right is the only thing that can truely give players a single player experience and immersion in an MMO world.

Except an MMO should never try to tell a singleplayer story, because phasing has never done right. All it does is split people up and break immersion.

Because it adds so much immersion, when you are standing in a same spot with fifteen other players waiting for a mob to spawn, so that you get a chance to loot a quest item from it. Oh, the respawn time is no less than 5 minutes and the one who does the most damage gets the loot rights. Just an example, but it actually used to be worse in few games.

"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."

  IridescentOrk

Novice Member

Joined: 5/27/13
Posts: 160

7/20/13 11:38:32 AM#28
Not a big deal. Phasing in WoW was properly implemented. I think Zenimax will know how to do it right?

gameplay > graphics

  IridescentOrk

Novice Member

Joined: 5/27/13
Posts: 160

7/20/13 11:39:26 AM#29
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

Actually phasing when done right is the only thing that can truely give players a single player experience and immersion in an MMO world.

Except an MMO should never try to tell a singleplayer story, because phasing has never done right. All it does is split people up and break immersion.

ESO is not an MMO.

gameplay > graphics

  Betaguy

Elite Member

Joined: 12/31/04
Posts: 2625

Some folks are like Slinkies, totally useless but great fun to watch when pushed down stairs

7/20/13 11:47:18 AM#30
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Rydeson
I'll pass on the phasing TYVM..  That is the only thing I can think technically that is worse then instancing..... Another BAD design mechanic that segregates the community..
 
Yup, MMos that use instancing aren't worth touching.

So why do you keep touching it? I'm amazed you still post in this forum. There must be some sick negative attraction for you.

It's like a guy said the other day its just weird... Imagine going to the movie theater and standing in line. Meanwhile the guy in line behind you is going on about how bad the movie is going to be but is in line to see it.  Seems freaking oddball too me.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17130

7/20/13 11:50:07 AM#31
Originally posted by DavisFlight

 

And THAT, is why story based MMOs don't work.

No not at all.

"And that is why story based mmo's made by developers who don't put player interaction as a driving force of development" don't work".

 

Let's use your example; LOTRO.

LOTRO (as you rightly said) puts as many impediments in the way of player groups as it can do. You want to help someone going into a cave for a particular quest? Best make sure you are on that quest or you CAN'T EVEN ENTER.

All they would have to do is remove those barriers. People would just have to realize that doing story bits out of order means they would be "doing story bits out of order" and that would be that.

They could even make it that the xp you get doesn't add into your total until you do the prior story bits if they wanted. Or just let the player have the xp/rewards and if the player wants the rest of the story they can go back.

Heck in this type of game they can even scale the difficulty so that you arne your level 50 buddies aren't doing an instance made for a level 10.

 

  BadOrb

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/11/13
Posts: 739

7/20/13 12:02:01 PM#32
Originally posted by tazarconan

All these are insignificant details really. Whether i ll play TES or not depends only an only in just a few things.

1.Combat system how well it will get implemented and if its really working.

2.Character progression system, how deep it is,and with a slow gear improvement so u cant cap everything in just a few months playing.

3. Working and fun pvp

If any of the above aint work THEN id worry about TES .Not though about small details like instancing,phacing etc etc

In reply to no 2 , well if you mean a few months on 1 character then i doubt it will take that long at all , maybe 2-3 weeks if you are lucky. How many classes are there in the game btw ?

It was really interesting to read about LotRo , I never played it but sounds like a total immersion breaker , can't party up to do quests unless you are at that stage. I know in SWTOR that you would have to complete a starter planet if your friend was on a different one , then meet up on the second planet. At least after that you could play the whole rest of the game together. I know if you are the same class then you would have to repeat the class mission for those characters , which is a bit of an immersion breaker. Anyways good to hear some games are less of an MMO than SWTOR , good news indeed. 

Cheers,

BadOrb.

PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing.
"SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13
The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]

  gamekid2k

Novice Member

Joined: 6/24/12
Posts: 363

7/20/13 2:15:58 PM#33
Originally posted by Tierless

At this point a game like Darkfall is more true to TES than TES is...sad really.

Actually this is very true. 

Example:

The combat in Dark Fall is more like Skyrim  (action based) where it is suppose to be soft targeted for ESO

There are no linear progression in Dark Fall but not in ESO

You have open world housing but no in ESO

You have open world pvp in Dark Fall but ESO PvP only limited to one area.

 

 

 

Now Playing: DARKFALL Unholy Wars "Return to Open World, Full Loot PvP, Conquest in a Sandbox MMO with player driven economy! Just like classic MMOs!"

  ste2000

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/28/04
Posts: 4733

7/20/13 2:22:02 PM#34
Originally posted by nariusseldon

http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/07/19/tamriel-infinium-phasing-the-elder-scrolls-online/#continued

Let's see if they can implement it well and make ESO a good game.

 

Old news.

That's why I've been saying since its announcement that this game will go the same route as SWTOR.

I am happy to see that you consider it a good thing...............for me that's THE game killer (this and the Facebook integration...............Lol!)

  Panzerbase

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 431

7/20/13 2:24:57 PM#35
Originally posted by gamekid2k
Originally posted by Tierless

At this point a game like Darkfall is more true to TES than TES is...sad really.

Actually this is very true. 

Example:

The combat in Dark Fall is more like Skyrim  (action based) where it is suppose to be soft targeted for ESO

There are no linear progression in Dark Fall but not in ESO

You have open world housing but no in ESO

You have open world pvp in Dark Fall but ESO PvP only limited to one area.

 

 

 

Excellent point, Dark Fall at its core is closer to Skyrim than ESO at this point. And phasing is more of a casual endeavor, I'm starting to think this game is going to be an appeal to all the masses type. 

  DavisFlight

Elite Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2525

7/20/13 2:57:48 PM#36
Originally posted by thexrated
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

Actually phasing when done right is the only thing that can truely give players a single player experience and immersion in an MMO world.

Except an MMO should never try to tell a singleplayer story, because phasing has never done right. All it does is split people up and break immersion.

Because it adds so much immersion, when you are standing in a same spot with fifteen other players waiting for a mob to spawn, so that you get a chance to loot a quest item from it.

No. It doesn't. A properly designed MMO doesn't have everyone standing around waiting for a mob to spawn for a "quest item".

And say you go into an instance for a special sword because you're the "chosen one". Well, what you do in the instance doesn't change once you leave the instance. The world is still full of monsters. Still full of players standing around, holding the supposedly one a kind items you just got in your "immersive" instance.

Instances are a poor half assed illusion. They can never be used to properly tell a "singleplayer story" because that just flat out doesn't work in MMOs. Either devs can focus on telling a story that involves everyone, considering that's the point of MMOs, or they can make a singleplayer game with optional coop. The middle ground results in a clusterfuck, IE, SWTOR.

  CthulhuPuffs

Novice Member

Joined: 3/03/13
Posts: 379

Will consume your soul, yet stay crunchy in milk

7/20/13 3:10:40 PM#37
Originally posted by Panzerbase    I'm starting to think this game is going to be an appeal to all the masses type.
 

It does seem that Zenimax is trying to hit all the bases with this game

 

Unfortunately I believe this will make ESO a Jack of all Trades Master of None game

Bringer of Eternal Darkness and Despair, but also a Nutritious way to start your Morning.

Games Played: Too Many

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3778

7/20/13 3:22:18 PM#38
Originally posted by Betaguy
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Rydeson
I'll pass on the phasing TYVM..  That is the only thing I can think technically that is worse then instancing..... Another BAD design mechanic that segregates the community..
 
Yup, MMos that use instancing aren't worth touching.

So why do you keep touching it? I'm amazed you still post in this forum. There must be some sick negative attraction for you.

It's like a guy said the other day its just weird... Imagine going to the movie theater and standing in line. Meanwhile the guy in line behind you is going on about how bad the movie is going to be but is in line to see it.  Seems freaking oddball too me.

I have some sympathy for the guy standing in line since most likely, someone dragged him there against his better judgement. If he's there by himself doing that? Yeah that's weird.

 

Unless, I suppose, his enjoyment comes not from watching movies but rather from the awe (which he imagines) others feel when they hear him talking about how any movie with CGI is not a real movie and he won't go anywhere near them...oblivious to the fact that he's much more near them than the millions who are giving it a pass and are happily doing something else they actually enjoy...

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3778

7/20/13 3:24:48 PM#39
Originally posted by CthulhuPuffs
Originally posted by Panzerbase    I'm starting to think this game is going to be an appeal to all the masses type.
 

It does seem that Zenimax is trying to hit all the bases with this game

 

Unfortunately I believe this will make ESO a Jack of all Trades Master of None game

I know eh? What's up with that? Why not make it for the 3 people who actually agree on everything an MMO shouldn't have.

  Rohn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/02/08
Posts: 3739

7/20/13 3:29:27 PM#40
Originally posted by Tierless

At this point a game like Darkfall is more true to TES than TES is...sad really.

 

More accurately, I'd say that Mortal Online is much closer to TES than TESO is.  MO is an actual sandbox.

Having said that, I don't particularly care for phasing in games - it's weird to have multiple different players in different phases of the same place.  I'd prefer that gameworlds would change for everyone based on the actions of players, instead of solo based changes.

Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.

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