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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Religious and LGBT Guilds, Yay or Nay?

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352 posts found
  Rydeson

Elite Member

Joined: 3/05/07
Posts: 3552

7/19/13 6:52:30 AM#141
     Personally.. I don't mind as long as it doesn't become a game issue..   EXCEPT if the religious stuff comes from in game deity, like it was back with EQ.. If you wanted to worship the God of War, or God of Thunder, etc etc, then I actually encourage MORE guilds to run with that and have fun.. 
  DamonVile

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4909

7/19/13 6:57:51 AM#142
Originally posted by aspekx
Originally posted by Adalwulff

If I were allowed to make an all white, heterosexual guild then maybe.

Anything less is sexist, racist or heterophobic.

 

once again someone in the absolute majority, a majority which has systematically repressed a group of people for centuries thinks that the same rules apply to them. well they don't. heterophobic would imply the ability to ruin your life, cause you to lose your job, or insist that you cannot marry the person you love, it would include being verbally harrassed for holding hands in public, or at times even physically assaulted. name me the heteros with this experience and we might could talk.

Discriminating against people now because they had more rights in the past doesn't make things even. As distasteful as it sounds that type of guild has to have the same rules as any other or it isn't equal rights.

  lizardbones

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10953

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

 
OP  7/19/13 7:11:23 AM#143


Originally posted by Adalwulff
If I were allowed to make an all white, heterosexual guild then maybe.

Anything less is sexist, racist or heterophobic.




The odds of any guild being created not being mostly white, heterosexual and probably male is pretty close to zero. Creating a 'white, hetero' guild would be pointless. That already exists. There's no need to try and create a separate space.

I don't think guilds based on race would be allowed in any game. Race is a different can of worms, one that I don't think any developer wants to open. I'm not sure about an all female and all male guild. Again though, all male guilds already exist, there's no need to try and create a separate space for them.

One of the social aspects of guilds is finding people who may share common interests or who may have had the same experiences as the other people in the guild outside of the game. The guild I was in was composed of people who all worked for one company. We shared a common interest. From what I can see, this is the main point of a religious or LBGT guilds. Finding people who share a common interest or experiences when doing so otherwise would be nearly impossible in game.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  User Deleted
7/19/13 7:17:23 AM#144
Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by aspekx
Originally posted by Adalwulff

If I were allowed to make an all white, heterosexual guild then maybe.

Anything less is sexist, racist or heterophobic.

 

once again someone in the absolute majority, a majority which has systematically repressed a group of people for centuries thinks that the same rules apply to them. well they don't. heterophobic would imply the ability to ruin your life, cause you to lose your job, or insist that you cannot marry the person you love, it would include being verbally harrassed for holding hands in public, or at times even physically assaulted. name me the heteros with this experience and we might could talk.

Discriminating against people now because they had more rights in the past doesn't make things even. As distasteful as it sounds that type of guild has to have the same rules as any other or it isn't equal rights.

GLBT guilds do not exclude anyone, they just ask that you be respectful to those in the guild who are of that orientation. Although I suppose that is discriminating against bigots and close minded a-holes.

  Waterlily

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/26/08
Posts: 2931

7/19/13 7:21:32 AM#145
Originally posted by evilastro
respectful to those 

respect goes both ways

if you want to be respected, don't do it by deliberately causing drama in games by dividing people by sexual orientation

  User Deleted
7/19/13 7:23:49 AM#146
Originally posted by Waterlily
Originally posted by evilastro
respectful to those 

respect goes both ways

if you want to be respected, don't do it by deliberately causing drama in games by dividing people by sexual orientation

I don't ever recall seeing a bunch of gay people mocking heterosexuals in any game I have played. Or causing drama by having a GLBT friendly guild.  Care to share some examples?

  Rydeson

Elite Member

Joined: 3/05/07
Posts: 3552

7/19/13 7:25:15 AM#147
Originally posted by Waterlily
Originally posted by evilastro
respectful to those 

respect goes both ways

if you want to be respected, don't do it by deliberately causing drama in games by dividing people by sexual orientation

I nominate Waterlilly for MMO President..  Keep up the good work in chat..  BTW, if you and like minded players, plan on playing EQN and if that game is any good, send me a note, as I'll come join your guild.. 

  Waterlily

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/26/08
Posts: 2931

7/19/13 7:26:59 AM#148
Originally posted by evilastro

 have played. Or causing drama by having a GLBT friendly guild.  Care to share some examples?

The fact this topic is 15 pages long within 24 hours means it causes drama.

Don't pretend like making a "Gay guild" doesn't cause drama. A "heterosexual" guild would cause drama too.

And as far as examples, there are plenty.

I believe it was WoW where a gay guild was disbanded because it was deemed discriminatory against heterosexuals.

And I have nothing against gay people, but if you want to be treated like an equal, then act like one, and don't join guilds just to be different and cause drama, you know it will cause drama.

 

 

  DamonVile

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4909

7/19/13 7:28:42 AM#149
Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by aspekx
Originally posted by Adalwulff

If I were allowed to make an all white, heterosexual guild then maybe.

Anything less is sexist, racist or heterophobic.

 

once again someone in the absolute majority, a majority which has systematically repressed a group of people for centuries thinks that the same rules apply to them. well they don't. heterophobic would imply the ability to ruin your life, cause you to lose your job, or insist that you cannot marry the person you love, it would include being verbally harrassed for holding hands in public, or at times even physically assaulted. name me the heteros with this experience and we might could talk.

Discriminating against people now because they had more rights in the past doesn't make things even. As distasteful as it sounds that type of guild has to have the same rules as any other or it isn't equal rights.

GLBT guilds do not exclude anyone, they just ask that you be respectful to those in the guild who are of that orientation. Although I suppose that is discriminating against bigots and close minded a-holes.

It would be...of course the "funny" part is if you let these people form groups like that, in todays politically correct climate, they'd probably learn what it's like to walk a mile in the people they hates shoes. The avg person would not be very accepting of a guild that was based on hate or discrimination.

I have a rule about stupid names. I think they're a great idea. If the devs force someone to change it I might play with someone for hours before I know they're an idiot. Someone walking around with a name like ipeeinurmouth tells me right away to avoid them. The same thing goes for guilds. If you join a guild that's white/hetero/ect only I know to avoid those people.

  User Deleted
7/19/13 7:30:23 AM#150
Originally posted by Waterlily
Originally posted by immodium

What I find unusual is why someone would play a game and think "I need to get my sexual orientation/religious/political views involved somehow"

THIS, why the hell are people bringing their sexual orientation into games, not only is it completely immersion breaking to bring up political and sexual topics, KIDS play these games, keep your sexual desires OUT OF THE GAME and go talk about it on a forum that deals with sex

Not everyone is a role player in character 24/7. I have regular chats with my guildies about RL. If you don't then good for you, but lots of people do, and they don't feel like getting harassed or feel marginalised.

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2890

There... are... four... lights!

7/19/13 7:30:33 AM#151
Originally posted by Waterlily
Every single love parade and every single gay parade has people half-naked running in the streets shouting the most obscene stuff.

I don't want to get to deeply into this delicate debate, but all those events in no way represent the vast majority of homosexual people. Those are ridiculous clown parades which have nothing to do with being homosexual. Most homosexual people find those things just as ridiculous as we heterosexual people do.

Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2

Got a refund: Archeage. First refund since I started MMOs.

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  Betaguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/31/04
Posts: 2653

Some folks are like Slinkies, totally useless but great fun to watch when pushed down stairs

7/19/13 7:31:33 AM#152
Originally posted by lizardbones

This article on Massively: http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/07/18/ask-massively-taboo-topics/

talks about the subject of "themed" guilds, in particular, guilds with a religious focus or a LGBT focus. Really, the guild is focused on gaming, but you know what I mean.

It has never occurred to me to be offended or really even care about this type of thing. If people want a guild that's friendly towards a particular religion or orientation, as long as they aren't militant, exclusive based on that religion or orientation and as long as they have good taste in public chat, I don't feel like i need to spend a lot of time thinking about it. Until I read the article.

It seems awhile back that Blizzard was going to ban guilds based on a LBGT charter, but backlash from the world or the gaming community caused them to reverse the decision quickly. This honestly surprises me. Given the nature of WoW's chat channels, I'm kind of surprised they would even consider that stance.

So, what do you think? Do religious guilds ruin your immersion in a game? What about LBGT guilds? Are there even that many guilds that advertise themselves based on a given religion or orientation?

Also, I realize this is a topic that could go south quickly, but in the spirit of conversation, try to avoid talking about specific religions or people, and focus on guilds. If things do go pear shaped, my apologies.

Same as my place of work, we do not discuss Religion or Politics. They fuel wars and only cause problems eventually. Also, in every EULA or TOS I have read those two items have no place in any of the games on the market.  They have political forums and religious places of worship for that kind of thing.

  Rydeson

Elite Member

Joined: 3/05/07
Posts: 3552

7/19/13 7:32:54 AM#153
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by Waterlily
Every single love parade and every single gay parade has people half-naked running in the streets shouting the most obscene stuff.

I don't want to get to deeply into this delicate debate, but all those events in no way represent the vast majority of homosexual people. Those are ridiculous clown parades which have nothing to do with being homosexual. Most homosexual people find those things just as ridiculous as we heterosexual people do.

I think you missed Waterlilly's point.. She didn't say or imply that those clowns are representative of the community.. What I heard is "keep it private" and don't cause attention drama......  Anyways

  Graey

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/22/10
Posts: 218

7/19/13 7:34:42 AM#154
Originally posted by immodium

What I find unusual is why someone would play a game and think "I need to get my sexual orientation/religious/political views involved somehow"

Agreed, though sometimes it might come up through chatting with someone personally I don't see why that should be an issue or topic. Jeesh we always find ways to mess things up. Can't we just enjoy something for the sake of enjoyment.

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2890

There... are... four... lights!

7/19/13 7:35:30 AM#155
Originally posted by Rydeson
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by Waterlily
Every single love parade and every single gay parade has people half-naked running in the streets shouting the most obscene stuff.

I don't want to get to deeply into this delicate debate, but all those events in no way represent the vast majority of homosexual people. Those are ridiculous clown parades which have nothing to do with being homosexual. Most homosexual people find those things just as ridiculous as we heterosexual people do.

I think you missed Waterlilly's point.. She didn't say or imply that those clowns are representative of the community.. What I heard is "keep it private" and don't cause attention drama......  Anyways

Yes, I understood that part, and I agree - as I already said in a previous post with other words.

I just mean, don't judge those people based on a small, noisy and ridiculous minority. It's the same who also create drama with their special guild in games. The very vast majority of homosexuals definitely do NOT want that kind of attention.

Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2

Got a refund: Archeage. First refund since I started MMOs.

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  User Deleted
7/19/13 7:40:34 AM#156
Originally posted by Waterlily
Originally posted by evilastro

 have played. Or causing drama by having a GLBT friendly guild.  Care to share some examples?

The fact this topic is 15 pages long within 24 hours means it causes drama.

Don't pretend like making a "Gay guild" doesn't cause drama. A "heterosexual" guild would cause drama too.

And as far as examples, there are plenty.

I believe it was WoW where a gay guild was disbanded because it was deemed discriminatory against heterosexuals.

And I have nothing against gay people, but if you want to be treated like an equal, then act like one, and don't join guilds just to be different and cause drama, you know it will cause drama.

 

As I said earlier, I am in a raid guild that really doesn't care about it and I happily chat to them about my RL, but threads like this only prove why there is a place for guilds like it.  The amount of nonsense being spouted off by various people is ridiculous. Things like 'oh what if kids find out that there are gay people in the world?'. Oh geez, I don't know, maybe they will grow up to be more tolerant people or not commit suicide if they turn out to be gay.  And crap about pride parades? Oh I wonder why we need them when people are still getting killed in various countries around the world for being gay, and there is still a whole bunch of misconception about it being a 'choice'.

The problem is that gay people are not equals, not yet, which is why they need to raise public awareness and surround themselves with communities who are accepting and not xenophobic.

  User Deleted
7/19/13 7:43:04 AM#157
Originally posted by Rydeson
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by Waterlily
Every single love parade and every single gay parade has people half-naked running in the streets shouting the most obscene stuff.

I don't want to get to deeply into this delicate debate, but all those events in no way represent the vast majority of homosexual people. Those are ridiculous clown parades which have nothing to do with being homosexual. Most homosexual people find those things just as ridiculous as we heterosexual people do.

I think you missed Waterlilly's point.. She didn't say or imply that those clowns are representative of the community.. What I heard is "keep it private" and don't cause attention drama......  Anyways

You both missed the point that they are keeping it private by creating a community that is accepting of how they were born, so they aren't creating drama in another guild by exposing themselves to those clowns who will create drama about it.

  Rydeson

Elite Member

Joined: 3/05/07
Posts: 3552

7/19/13 7:50:58 AM#158
Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by Rydeson
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by Waterlily
Every single love parade and every single gay parade has people half-naked running in the streets shouting the most obscene stuff.

I don't want to get to deeply into this delicate debate, but all those events in no way represent the vast majority of homosexual people. Those are ridiculous clown parades which have nothing to do with being homosexual. Most homosexual people find those things just as ridiculous as we heterosexual people do.

I think you missed Waterlilly's point.. She didn't say or imply that those clowns are representative of the community.. What I heard is "keep it private" and don't cause attention drama......  Anyways

You both missed the point that they are keeping it private by creating a community that is accepting of how they were born, so they aren't creating drama in another guild by exposing themselves to those clowns who will create drama about it.

again.. the point is keep it private.. I don't want the KKK out having parades, or making guilds promoting their BS..  Using the excuse of creating "awareness" is just sugar coating it..  I don't care if there is a GL guild, but do you need to label yourself as "GAY PRIDE" guild tag?  Knowing damn well it's going to draw attention and from the wrong people.... See my point?

  Rusque

Elite Member

Joined: 6/08/10
Posts: 1876

7/19/13 7:58:35 AM#159

My rule of thumb is this: If bronies are allowed to congregate, than so is anyone else.

 

Also of note, an all white, heterosexual guild is commonly referred to as . . . a guild. There's lots of those guilds that happen to be that way without any intention and white, heterosexual, male happens to be the default in video games. So making a guild that's accepting of you is a bit silly.

Most themed guilds are open to everyone who wants to join and is comfortable being there. I would not be okay with a LGBT guild if they did not allow heteros, exclusion is teh badz. So if you want to start an all white, hetero guild, that's totally cool. But you have to make it open to everyone who wants to join - like I said, this is commonly referred to as "a guild".

 

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2890

There... are... four... lights!

7/19/13 8:06:24 AM#160
Originally posted by evilastro
 

As I said earlier, I am in a raid guild that really doesn't care about it and I happily chat to them about my RL, but threads like this only prove why there is a place for guilds like it.

Seems to me that threads like this prove games, and many game forums, are right to forbid discussion about religion, politics and sexual orientation in public chat.

Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2

Got a refund: Archeage. First refund since I started MMOs.

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

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