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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Looking ahead: Guild Wars 2 in 2013

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52 posts found
  rodingo

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/18/07
Posts: 2352

7/18/13 11:17:42 AM#21
[mod edit]

 

"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  Naqaj

Novice Member

Joined: 7/24/09
Posts: 1682

7/18/13 11:21:12 AM#22
In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ...
  botrytis

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 2623

7/18/13 11:23:41 AM#23
Originally posted by Naqaj
In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ...

+1 - this made my day - I should use this as a quote for my signature!!

"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  botrytis

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 2623

7/18/13 11:26:49 AM#24
Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by Naqaj
In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ...

+1 - this made my day - I should use this as a quote for my signature!!

I had to use it...... :-)

"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  Celcius

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/20/04
Posts: 991

7/18/13 12:00:13 PM#25
Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by Naqaj
In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ...

+1 - this made my day - I should use this as a quote for my signature!!

I had to use it...... :-)

Nice

  Amana

MMORPG.COM Staff

Joined: 1/03/11
Posts: 2494

7/18/13 12:57:32 PM#26
Cleaned things up in here. Now, let's hopefully remain on topic.

To give feedback on moderation, contact community@mmorpg.com

  AmbrosiaAmor

Novice Member

Joined: 11/24/10
Posts: 917

7/18/13 4:24:08 PM#27
I am really liking most of these changes. I'm glad they are dumping MF and placing it as an account wide stat.

  Aeander

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/15/11
Posts: 517

7/18/13 4:27:19 PM#28
Sounds like pretty much exactly what the game needed.
  Celcius

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/20/04
Posts: 991

7/18/13 4:46:48 PM#29
Originally posted by Wizardry
Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by Masterfuzzfuzz

Too little too late.

Great now I am forced to craft in order to get a legendary weapon.

Also, it took them this long to realize there aren't enough skills? Judging by their focus on skills in this game, I don't think we'll see more than 3 new skills by the end of the year per class. BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORING.

So, more skills doesn't mean better skills. Look at Rift - so many skills that are useless and same with GW1. I mean how many people use 'Malaise'? I think A.Net wants to have useful skills not just skills for the sake of having skills.

 

The game is one year old, how can it be too little too late?

Anet seems to have so many fooled with their really cheap lazy efforts.

Adding in stats and raising crafting points takes no effort at all.Then to add in a new Legendary line and say they are not  getting into the Tier based gear game is being hypocritical.Also they talk about keeping their goal of a world that feels alive,yet they keep churning out mini games and meaningless content that is again hypocrticial of a living world.

So they say one thing but do the exact opposite.

So all you really have to look forward to is a Legendary TIER of gear and being able to craft stuff that is already in the game and some new stats?That is what a team is spending months and months to design?

You know what takes EFFORT and money to design?Characters,NPC's, animated cut scenes/movies,housing,mounts,lots of gear lines,new classes that is what a team does to create content that is worthy of buying.

EVERY single thing ANET does is very cheap,cost effective,this was their design in GW1 and very quickly they have steered right back there once again.They started by saying they would get away from the GW1 instance game,well they are right back there again because it is cheap and cost effective.

I will be surprised ,i mean VERY surprised if i ever see ANET put out any costly content.BTW i lasted all of two days in GW2 I have had several other totally free games keep me  interested for much longer periods of time.With EQ2 out there and totally free i cannot see how anyone would pay Anet to deliver sub par content.

 

Adding new legendaries does not mean that they are adding a new tier of stats. They are just new skins for Ascended. Ascended is and always will be the top tier of gear. Just like when they initially put it in starting in November. There are no tiers beyond that. 

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 16892

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

7/19/13 2:00:20 AM#30
Originally posted by Celcius
Originally posted by Wizardry
Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by Masterfuzzfuzz

Too little too late.

Great now I am forced to craft in order to get a legendary weapon.

Also, it took them this long to realize there aren't enough skills? Judging by their focus on skills in this game, I don't think we'll see more than 3 new skills by the end of the year per class. BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORING.

So, more skills doesn't mean better skills. Look at Rift - so many skills that are useless and same with GW1. I mean how many people use 'Malaise'? I think A.Net wants to have useful skills not just skills for the sake of having skills.

 

The game is one year old, how can it be too little too late?

Anet seems to have so many fooled with their really cheap lazy efforts.

Adding in stats and raising crafting points takes no effort at all.Then to add in a new Legendary line and say they are not  getting into the Tier based gear game is being hypocritical.Also they talk about keeping their goal of a world that feels alive,yet they keep churning out mini games and meaningless content that is again hypocrticial of a living world.

So they say one thing but do the exact opposite.

So all you really have to look forward to is a Legendary TIER of gear and being able to craft stuff that is already in the game and some new stats?That is what a team is spending months and months to design?

You know what takes EFFORT and money to design?Characters,NPC's, animated cut scenes/movies,housing,mounts,lots of gear lines,new classes that is what a team does to create content that is worthy of buying.

EVERY single thing ANET does is very cheap,cost effective,this was their design in GW1 and very quickly they have steered right back there once again.They started by saying they would get away from the GW1 instance game,well they are right back there again because it is cheap and cost effective.

I will be surprised ,i mean VERY surprised if i ever see ANET put out any costly content.BTW i lasted all of two days in GW2 I have had several other totally free games keep me  interested for much longer periods of time.With EQ2 out there and totally free i cannot see how anyone would pay Anet to deliver sub par content.

 

Adding new legendaries does not mean that they are adding a new tier of stats. They are just new skins for Ascended. Ascended is and always will be the top tier of gear. Just like when they initially put it in starting in November. There are no tiers beyond that. 

 The concept of the carrot remains the same, playing the loot pinata. Same concept gear oriented treadmill MMO's use to string players along,  the only difference is you don't get more powerful.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  DKLond

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/21/08
Posts: 585

7/19/13 3:05:30 AM#31

Some of it sounds pretty good.

I didn't like GW much - but I definitely think it was a mistake not to include the "skill hunt" in GW2, as it was one of the few things I really liked about the first game.

But it's clear to me that ANet are targeting a certain kind of gamer that's very far removed from myself.

It seems they're using a genre that's all about longevity and commitment, trying to turn it into something that doesn't require an investment.

A really strange choice - but then again, I'm fine with investing myself in a game I enjoy.

I mean, if the design is trying to provide hundreds of hours of fun - then I can only assume those hundreds of hours are going to be spent from my pool of time available.

If I'm going to spend hundreds of hours playing a game - I most definitely prefer being invested and committed to the experience.

Frankly, I have no idea why anyone would want to spend hundreds of hours NOT being invested in some kind of long-term goal or accomplishment. Sure, it's just a game - but so are all games we spend our time playing, right?

Anyway, their approach to content and longevity is just weird, man.

Kinda frustrating, because they're clearly accomplished developers. The engine is fantastic - and combat is really smooth and responsive. Such a shame about the limited arsenal and the zergy approach to almost all challenges.

  Naqaj

Novice Member

Joined: 7/24/09
Posts: 1682

7/19/13 3:58:51 AM#32
Originally posted by Distopia

 The concept of the carrot remains the same, playing the loot pinata. Same concept gear oriented treadmill MMO's use to string players along,  the only difference is you don't get more powerful.

A difference of quite some importance, as it has implications for gameplay. Multi-tiered gear progression used to be the default mechanic for content gating.

  DKLond

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/21/08
Posts: 585

7/19/13 4:26:26 AM#33
Originally posted by Naqaj
Originally posted by Distopia

 The concept of the carrot remains the same, playing the loot pinata. Same concept gear oriented treadmill MMO's use to string players along,  the only difference is you don't get more powerful.

A difference of quite some importance, as it has implications for gameplay. Multi-tiered gear progression used to be the default mechanic for content gating.

True enough - but if you think about it, that doesn't really matter in terms of experiencing the content.

Where as in a traditional MMO - you'd have to progress your character in terms of gear to experience all the content, you still have to "grind gear" in GW2 to experience that gear.

Essentially, you need to spend your time playing the game to experience all it has to offer.

I know that gating mechanisms are artificial - and I believe there are many ways to overcome them - but they're not in place to annoy people or to make the game bad. They're there to give you a sense of accomplishment and something to look forward to. Artifical as that may be - it's not so much a punishment - but a way of giving players tangible goals.

If you want a specific weapon skin or a legendary in GW2 - you still have to work for it, and it will be a grind to a certain extent.

Remember that because a game like WoW "gates" content - it still has that content available for you. GW2 doesn't have "more" content just because it's all available from the beginning.

It's a psychological difference and one is not inherently superior to the other. I, personally, prefer a paced delivery of content. I don't like the psychological implication of having "everything" at my fingertips as I start playing.

By that same token, I wouldn't enjoy Skyrim if I could have all the weapons and all the perks available to me within a few hours of casual play. You know? I like gating and I like a sense of progression.

But I will say that GW2 is great in how it doesn't invalidate your work every 3-6 months. THAT is something I always hated in WoW - and I think it's stupid that your legendaries don't preserve their power after all your hard work.

  Naqaj

Novice Member

Joined: 7/24/09
Posts: 1682

7/19/13 4:51:37 AM#34
Originally posted by DKLond

Essentially, you need to spend your time playing the game to experience all it has to offer.

Exactly, but a system without tiered content allows the player to chose where he spends his time on his own terms, whereas the traditional system, due to it being designed to stretch out playing time as long as possible, does not .

 

  DKLond

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/21/08
Posts: 585

7/19/13 4:57:54 AM#35
Originally posted by Naqaj
Originally posted by DKLond

Essentially, you need to spend your time playing the game to experience all it has to offer.

Exactly, but a system without tiered content allows the player to chose where he spends his time on his own terms, whereas the traditional system, due to it being designed to stretch out playing time as long as possible, does not .

 

The choice is always there - and no one is forcing you to experience everything the game has to offer.

But it's true that GW2 gives the player the choice of what to experience when - and the downside to that is that they're not giving you content as a goal to look forward to.

Essentially, what I want from a game is to have fun - and if there's a goal to look forward to (as in, a goal I'm interested in) - I'll have fun working towards that goal, as long as the gameplay is fun and diversive.

I know it might seem odd to NOT want everything available at the beginning of the game (or soon after) - but I'm a great believer in progression and goals. I don't want over-exposure and I don't want ALL the toys on the same day.

That said, I don't think gated content or gear-progression is very interesting. It's just one more way to give players a goal to look forward to.

I much prefer stuff like deep crafting with a solid economy, housing, open world PvP with political structures. Obviously, GW2 is not the game for me in that way.

But with a less extreme "toy factory" delivery of goods - and more emphasis on quality story and quests (instead of the abysmal racial storylines and samey "events") - it might have been a great themepark.

As it is - it's just a really superficial but BEAUTIFUL game - with a fantastic combat FEEL.

  Naqaj

Novice Member

Joined: 7/24/09
Posts: 1682

7/19/13 6:45:30 AM#36
Originally posted by DKLond

 I'll have fun working towards that goal, as long as the gameplay is fun and diversive.

Again, exactly what I'm saying. Tiered, gated content leads to having to repeat parts of the game long after they stopped being fun, or you don't get to see the new content at all.

Without the gate, you can play the first part for as long as you actually enjoy it, for example until you've beaten it, and then move to the next.

  DKLond

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/21/08
Posts: 585

7/19/13 8:10:31 AM#37
Originally posted by Naqaj
Originally posted by DKLond

 I'll have fun working towards that goal, as long as the gameplay is fun and diversive.

Again, exactly what I'm saying. Tiered, gated content leads to having to repeat parts of the game long after they stopped being fun, or you don't get to see the new content at all.

Without the gate, you can play the first part for as long as you actually enjoy it, for example until you've beaten it, and then move to the next.

No, it's not exactly what you're saying.

For some people - working TOWARDS a goal can be fun, even if the activity you're doing isn't entirely fresh. GW2 doesn't have infinite fresh content - so people WILL grind or they'll stop playing. Exactly like a game with gated content.

GW2 provides ALL content from the early stages - but with the price of not having content open up as a goal. YOU like that - and I don't.

It's two different ways of presenting content.

I know ANet and fans have been perpetuating this obscure myth about other MMO developers being these evil people - trying to bore you to death because they want to keep you subscribed or buying crap in their shops.

But, as far as I can see - they're doing everything they can to keep the player entertained so they WON'T leave. They're not trying to hold you prisoner - they're simply gating content to extend its lifetime and to give you goals.

GW2 let's you exhaust content at will and it doesn't give you much in the way of goals.

Except, of course, if you include weapon skins and legendaries - which is just another grind.

I appreciate that fans of GW2 design actually LIKE having all content available ASAP - and they LIKE having access to 100% of the character arsenal within a short time.

I just wonder if fans appreciate that other players LIKE having goals to work towards and they LIKE character progression - and that's without being enslaved by the evil developers.

  Naqaj

Novice Member

Joined: 7/24/09
Posts: 1682

7/19/13 9:59:32 AM#38

Sorry, but noone is trying to paint other developers as evil or with malign intentions, that's bullshit.

I have no problem at all with you liking MMOs that work that way. Playing towards a goal, in anticipation of what comes later, that's fine. I'm not saying any of that is bad, I'm just describing how it works as a design mechanic, and how other mechanics are affected when you take the gating mechanism out. Look at the post I was responding to before yours.

Obviously there are a lot of people who like the traditional progression design, otherwise the genre wouldn't have millions of players. I used to be one of them, the concept isn't foreign to me. I'm not saying those people are wrong, or shouldn't have fun. I'm just saying that having an MMO with multi-tiered gated end game has specific implications for how players can or cannot access content, and it has implications for how they approach many other things in the game. 

 

  User Deleted
7/19/13 10:05:50 AM#39
Originally posted by Masterfuzzfuzz

Too little too late.

Great now I am forced to craft in order to get a legendary weapon.

Also, it took them this long to realize there aren't enough skills? Judging by their focus on skills in this game, I don't think we'll see more than 3 new skills by the end of the year per class. BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORING.

What does the game need then? What's wrong with crafting to get a legendary?

  fivoroth

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 11/10/06
Posts: 3588

7/19/13 10:13:33 AM#40
Originally posted by Masterfuzzfuzz

Too little too late.

Great now I am forced to craft in order to get a legendary weapon.

Also, it took them this long to realize there aren't enough skills? Judging by their focus on skills in this game, I don't think we'll see more than 3 new skills by the end of the year per class. BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORING.

I completely agree. Ooh wait, nope! So let me get this straight. Company A (in this case ArenaNet) announces boring new content, trolls QQ, boring bla bla. Then same company announces some very interesting content and what do the trolls have to say? It's too late. Bullshit! The game is not even 1 year old and it has tons of people playing. This means that it isn't too late.

But yeah don't let the door hit you on the way out.

@OP, this sounds very interesting. Especially them adding new skills and focusing more on permanent content. This is becoming more apparent in their newest patch. They are bringing back two of the old temporary dungeons as fractals as well as adding a new one. They are also adding two new permanent mini games, one of them a survival game! I love those!

Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.

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