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EverQuest Next

EverQuest Next 

General Discussion  » (POLL) How would you feel about Everquest Next having no Player Character Levels unlike EQ1&2?

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82 posts found
  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 5895

 
OP  7/18/13 12:15:18 AM#1

How would you feel about Everquest Next having no Player Character Levels unlike EQ1&2?

Levels have been a key part of themepark MMO pathing concept.

But moving towards a more free roam design to the game, it would make sense to be able to go anywhere and fight anything regardless of a level number next to character's head that requires a useless grind to unlock parts of the world to explore.

 

Well a Levelless system would allow players from their first time playing, to explore and go anywhere in the game to progress and enjoy themselves, rather being locked to a limit of locations like in a themepark design MMO.

 

Whats your opinion on this? Do you support such a thing?

There is a somewhat caution to the idea though. I believe it was GW2 (a Very Very Popular themepark MMO) that at first designed the game to allow players to scale in level in any part of the game including the game world. Which allow players from day 1 to go anywhere and do any event they choose. Talk about exploration.

But some reason this idea was scrapped. Had to be a reason that is negative. Could such a reason apply to a Sandbox Everquest Next?

 

Yes yes share your thoughts and vote on this discussion.

How would you feel about Everquest Next having no Player Character Levels unlike EQ1&2?

I am a EQ1||2 fan and support a levelless EQN Sandbox
I am a EQ1||2 fan and DONT support a levelless EQN Sandbox
I am not a EQ1||2 fan but support a Levelless design for EQN sandbox
I am not a EQ1||2 fan but DONT support a Levelless design for EQN sandbox
(login to vote)

  killahh

Novice Member

Joined: 8/25/04
Posts: 454

As famous as the unknown soldier

7/18/13 12:24:53 AM#2
There has to be some indicator of advancement in any game that has any kind of progression, and any indicator is in itself, a kind of level. I think to uo, where titles were given based on proficiency,and notoriety, those were levels, regardless of what you actually thought of them, and even in eve, there are levels of advancement, based of the requirements of the ships, and activities you do. Cheers,

Gonada Dahung,over 20 years of mmorpg's and counting....Please Lord, let someone make a game that had all the awesomeness of UO, EQ and EVE...

  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 5895

 
OP  7/18/13 12:35:37 AM#3
Originally posted by killahh
There has to be some indicator of advancement in any game that has any kind of progression, and any indicator is in itself, a kind of level. I think to uo, where titles were given based on proficiency,and notoriety, those were levels, regardless of what you actually thought of them, and even in eve, there are levels of advancement, based of the requirements of the ships, and activities you do. Cheers,

But thats kind of the point. Since Nobody has ever designed a MMO from the ground up to not have levels (including hidden levels), how would you ever know how fun it really can be?

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 6970

7/18/13 12:44:58 AM#4
levels like in WoW are an old, and tired design.
  Gallus85

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/13/11
Posts: 953

7/18/13 12:47:34 AM#5

It would be interesting, because this might help balance PVP and prevent rampant OW ganking of lower level characters.

But there needs to be some sort of progression system, so regardless of what they come up with, I'm sure more experienced players will have a large stat pools / better gear / available spells / available abilities... over new players.  So it might not even help OW ganker control.

I voted yes, but if you had included an option for "Either / Or" I would have selected that.

I think levels are fun, but I'm always open to see something new.

Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL

  strykr619

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/13/07
Posts: 127

7/18/13 12:53:14 AM#6
Originally posted by bcbully
levels like in WoW are an old, and tired design.

Considering many of WoW's game features are from Everquest, it should be a tired design. 

  Hrimnir

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/24/10
Posts: 1066

7/18/13 12:59:13 AM#7
Originally posted by MMOExposed
Originally posted by killahh
There has to be some indicator of advancement in any game that has any kind of progression, and any indicator is in itself, a kind of level. I think to uo, where titles were given based on proficiency,and notoriety, those were levels, regardless of what you actually thought of them, and even in eve, there are levels of advancement, based of the requirements of the ships, and activities you do. Cheers,

But thats kind of the point. Since Nobody has ever designed a MMO from the ground up to not have levels (including hidden levels), how would you ever know how fun it really can be?

I don't have to partake in harcore dungeon style S&M to know i won't enjoy getting smashed in the junk with a ballpeen hammer whilst having hot wax poured on my nipples during intercourse.

"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

- Friedrich Nietzsche

  Gholos

Novice Member

Joined: 6/29/13
Posts: 209

7/18/13 1:07:46 AM#8

I like levelling even in a sandbox.

An alternative system could be an advancment based on careers like in WFRP, but it is too difficult to implement in MMORPG as Warhammer Climax project teach.


"Brute force not work? It because you not use enought of it"
-Karg, Ogryn Bone'ead.

  Lokero

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 4/30/06
Posts: 324

7/18/13 1:09:52 AM#9

Levels in modern MMOs have become nothing more than a tedious obligation.  They fly by so fast and are just a chore to get through for a couple weeks or whatever.  No one cares about the levels anymore, because they are so short and it's over so fast.

Having levels really has become pointless these days.  So, I do not much care one way or the others nowdays.  I'm ok with levels if they actually meant something.  And, I'd be okay with a skill system instead of levels if it were done well.

It's really less about the type of system and more about how well implemented it is, for me.

  Dejoblue

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/11
Posts: 295

I'll give them heroics...and when everyone is super...no one will be.

7/18/13 1:31:34 AM#10

When I get to level 50 or 60 or 100 then what? Then there are no more levels and we have to do something else and we measure our progress in other ways.

Players burn through content, leveling inside a month. All of the content from 1 - 50 is wasted on "leveling".

What if There were no levels? Then ALL content would be playable at "end game". Suddenly Blackburrow is still a challenge 6 months in and still drops items you can use to craft, especially if players craft everything and gear is disposable.

You measure your advancement by leveling other things, skills for example, whether like in EQ where you beat on stuff to get better at one handed swords and the like or a EVE style time based skill point system or a PS2 certification type system, this is how you measure your advancement.

Can you wear that T5 plate chestplate? Do you have enough strength and stamina and have you enough skill points into plate wearing? Yes instead of a simple level requirement items may require your mastery of many things to be able to use them.

In EVE I am a miner it took me 4 months of casual play to be able to fly a Hulk/Mackinaw, which are fairly expensive for a noob but made up very quickly by letting me mine a lot of ore. Now I want to be able to do mission runs and need to spend some time to level up that.

And what about adornments and enchants? What if you have to have the skill to be able to use say radiant gems and the tier above that is glimmering stones? Now you are leveling to wear gear then leveling to adorn and chant them.

Smed has said that there wont be the traditional gear treadmill but there will be raids, EVE has raids(Incursions), and there wont necessarily be a skill based system. I hope he was just covering his tracks with the skill system and they do have it. Well have to see but an EVE - like high fantasy AAA title would be amazing.

With or without PVP. I HATE PVP but I LOVE EVE. It isn't needed but certainly adds to the politics which is amazing.

And the economy...I could go on and on but you have heard it all before, no one has ever made it though. But when your company has several MMOs with less subs than EVE has you kinda take notice of this "niche" game and, well, maybe they are on to something.

If EQN is like EVE I will LOSE MY MIND, and it's a good thing.

 

And now for the next Poll...no classes... /evil grin

  ice-vortex

Novice Member

Joined: 5/21/10
Posts: 901

7/18/13 1:45:44 AM#11
I fully support a horizontal progression system. Instead of getting more powerful, you simply get more choice and flexibility in your builds.
  Purutzil

Elite Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 2799

The Critical Hit Pretzel!

7/18/13 1:49:14 AM#12
Levels exist for a sense of progression. Its a huge reason why modern FPS games have leveling systems in place in order to keep people playing their games. Without a sense of progressing or earning anything, its very easy for players to become bored and have no desire to play the game. While its possible there won't be 'normal' levels and things can be left free, chances are some form of Alternate Advancement would probably exist to give players something to work towards.
  ice-vortex

Novice Member

Joined: 5/21/10
Posts: 901

7/18/13 1:55:58 AM#13
The issue is really not whether you have a number that goes up, but how much power you obtain as that number goes up. If you can obtain and level every class and every class has a lot of abilities that takes time to obtain by leveling up individual skills, you have a hybrid level-skill system. Now if there is no vertical power gain while the numbers go up, but you simply obtain more abilities that makes your character more flexible, you could have a good horizontal progression system.
  coretex666

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/03/12
Posts: 1799

"I shall take your position into consideration"

7/18/13 4:22:56 AM#14

It would depend on the alternative.

I do not need levels.

However, if there was not a longterm vertical character progression, I would most likely be out as such game is not an RPG, for me.

Currently playing: L2 Chronicle 4

  Aelious

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2294

World > Quest Progression

7/18/13 4:30:15 AM#15
I would support no player character levels but I don't think that will be an issue.  Classes are confirmed (via SoE Live schedule) so I'm hoping for a more in-depth system like PS2 has.  In that regard there will be "progression" in each class and each aspect of each class but there will be no definative "player character" levels.
  Masterfuzzfuzz

Novice Member

Joined: 6/30/13
Posts: 176

7/18/13 4:31:08 AM#16
Originally posted by ice-vortex
I fully support a horizontal progression system. Instead of getting more powerful, you simply get more choice and flexibility in your builds.

No. Horizontal progression is the death of games. See GW2. It's player base dropped dramatically because there was NOTHING TO DO AFTER 1 WEEK OF PLAY. You got to level 80 and literally nothing mattered because you could never get any better. Just look different/silly

  rojoArcueid

Elite Member

Joined: 8/13/09
Posts: 5048

"It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver". - Niccolo Machiavelli

7/18/13 4:33:12 AM#17

i voted for the third option.

I am totally OK with no levels. In fact, that would be great,  but ill still play the game with or without levels.

My endgame begins with character creation and ends with a new mmorpg

  Aelious

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2294

World > Quest Progression

7/18/13 4:39:45 AM#18
Originally posted by Masterfuzzfuzz
Originally posted by ice-vortex
I fully support a horizontal progression system. Instead of getting more powerful, you simply get more choice and flexibility in your builds.

No. Horizontal progression is the death of games. See GW2. It's player base dropped dramatically because there was NOTHING TO DO AFTER 1 WEEK OF PLAY. You got to level 80 and literally nothing mattered because you could never get any better. Just look different/silly

 

I think that had to do more with the fact that it was horizontal progression with set classes and max levels.  EQN may have horizontal progression with class switching and without character levels, big difference IMO.

 

It was funny to watch the MMORPG panel for the "future of MMO gaming".  The ANet guy was talking about how people want to be locked into classes because they identify the character as that class.  Dave was shaking his head and smiling and said just after that about how players want that option to change what they do.  We'll see how it turns out.

  killahh

Novice Member

Joined: 8/25/04
Posts: 454

As famous as the unknown soldier

7/18/13 4:52:33 AM#19
Sorry I still don't get it.
So, your saying that everyone would be able to go anywhere, equip anything,kill anything, craft anything, right from the get-go?

You get satisfaction from achieving goals in life, and yes It does translate into games as well. You say the level system is old and tired, and yet GW2 Peaked a few weeks in ans is declining ever since. Those that praised the game are now critical of the ease of the game, and we have ample evidence that games with progression do well if done right.

Gonada Dahung,over 20 years of mmorpg's and counting....Please Lord, let someone make a game that had all the awesomeness of UO, EQ and EVE...

  Xthos

Elite Member

Joined: 4/18/10
Posts: 2623

7/18/13 5:00:36 AM#20
Originally posted by MMOExposed
Originally posted by killahh
There has to be some indicator of advancement in any game that has any kind of progression, and any indicator is in itself, a kind of level. I think to uo, where titles were given based on proficiency,and notoriety, those were levels, regardless of what you actually thought of them, and even in eve, there are levels of advancement, based of the requirements of the ships, and activities you do. Cheers,

But thats kind of the point. Since Nobody has ever designed a MMO from the ground up to not have levels (including hidden levels), how would you ever know how fun it really can be?

 

I am not quite getting what your saying, as UO didn't have levels, you had skills, and the better your skills, the better you did, but a brand new character could go anywhere and fight anything, didn't mean you would win.

 

EQ, you could originally go anywhere, fight anything, with levels, same thing though, didn't mean you would win.

 

I would be fine with EQN having a skill system, and people worried about advancement after they max out their skill points, you could tack on a AA system, just like in a level based system.

 

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