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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » pvp

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48 posts found
  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 4101

7/22/13 5:46:01 PM#21
Originally posted by ste2000
Originally posted by Brabbit1987
Originally posted by ste2000
 

The funny thing is, to me balancing for both PVE and PVP is an easy task. If you have NPCs have levels exactly like players and have all the same exact skills, health, stamnia, ect. When you balance it, it would simply work for both. Meaning a NPC that is level 10 is equally as hard as a player at Level 10. However, of course a player will be smarter, but that would really be the only difference. This really would only work for humanoid NPCs, but it would balance both styles at the same time.

Though I could be totally wrong about this lol XD.

It's harder than you think.

The most difficult things to balance are the CC (Crowd Control) skills.

While it is fine to lock an NPC for 5 seconds, it is not ok to lock a Player for 5 seconds and killing him in 3 seconds (WoW rogues spring to my mind)

If you want to have distinctive classes in RPGs like the Tank (high Def - low DPS), the Buffers (support),  Crowd Controlers, Healers and the DPS, you can't have PvP, because all those type of roles are so different that cannot guarantee a fair PvP fight.

In order to have a fair PvP fight, all the classes (or roles) should be almost identical, so one class doesn't have a clear advantage on another.

 

One of the reason why recent MMO are so shallow is because the PvE is generally linear, the classes don't feel much different but in name, and tactics and group play are almost inexistent.

That's due partly because of the need for the classes to be not too different from each other so that PvP is fair.

 

I think ESO needs strong classes and roles to give the characteristic TES feel, but with PvP, I don't think that would be possible.

Anyway PvP is in ESO and it's there to stay, I just hope it doesn't do too much damage to the PvE part of the game.

So you've gone from "it doesn't fit the lore" to "it can't be balanced and therefore the PVE suffers"--which is the standard anti-PVP default argument--fair enough, but...

 

In this particular MMO, if you do more research than just take a quick glance and watch an interview or 2 (I suggest this site for real no BS info: http://tamrielfoundry.com/development-faq/ ) you'll know that stealth, cc, breaking CC and sprint, all useful PVP abilities, are limited by the same resource: stamina.

 

Then there's the fact that the class abilities that need to be balanced (because they are the only abilities unique to each of the 4 archetypes) are maybe 20% of the abilities any player can have. The other 80% are abilities that are not class restricted and any player can have or use. These include ALL the weapon and armor skill lines as well as the lycanthrope and vampirism lines, Then there are the guild-specific skill lines: mage's & companion's definitely at launch with Thieve's and Dark Brotherhood not far behind. And by the way, all active class abilities used by all classes are Magika-limited... yes, all 4 classes are users of one or another school of magic.

 

This ain't pre-cataclysm WOW. There is neither perma-stealth nor do you have to PVP as a tank if you like to PVE as one. This is not being designed as a PVE game with tacked-on PVP as is the case with most themeparks and why they all feel so lacking in that respect. PVP is an integral part of the design of this game.

 

Now...you may not like PVP and that's certainly your prerogative. And I'm not trying to sell you this game so I won't try to tell you that "there is still tons for you to do anyway"... which is true enough when the Zmax marketing people tell you that. But that's only a half-truth. The real honest answer is that if you truly are PVP-phobic, you should look elsewhere because a HUGE portion of the development focus for this MMO is PVP.

 

So sorry to have to break it to you. 

  NoLifeNerd20

Novice Member

Joined: 7/22/13
Posts: 15

7/22/13 5:59:12 PM#22
I've never been a big supporter of pvp myself (probaley because im so terrible at it in all the other mmos I played) but TESO has me wanting to at least give it a try and it brings some mechanics that I as a former/returning mmo/pc gamer have not seen before (It has literally been about 5 years since i've played an online game so this has me hopeful.)
  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 4101

7/22/13 8:49:12 PM#23
Originally posted by NoLifeNerd20
I've never been a big supporter of pvp myself (probaley because im so terrible at it in all the other mmos I played) but TESO has me wanting to at least give it a try and it brings some mechanics that I as a former/returning mmo/pc gamer have not seen before (It has literally been about 5 years since i've played an online game so this has me hopeful.)

You certainly won't be the only one. This is not the type of game that appeals to the "uberleet" PVPers. They have Mortal Online and DFUW for that. PVP here is also primarily group-based and large-fight oriented--not so much the 1-on-1 duel-like encounters (although that's available as well if you want to roam as a lone wolf.) It's easier to just go with the flow and get better at PVP in this type of game than in the scenario-based type where each individual has more responsibility due to the small number of players. In this type of PVP people will help you and take up your slack as you improve. There is no better environment for learning how to PVP than this.

 

PVPing in MMOs is just a learned skill and not that tough to improve--learning to raid against tough bosses in PVE is actually harder to learn. But some skills are very similar to raiding skills. Especially the need to move constantly, be aware of your surrounding and react quickly to the unexpected.

  ste2000

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/28/04
Posts: 4736

7/23/13 5:57:34 AM#24
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by ste2000

 

This ain't pre-cataclysm WOW. There is neither perma-stealth nor do you have to PVP as a tank if you like to PVE as one. This is not being designed as a PVE game with tacked-on PVP as is the case with most themeparks and why they all feel so lacking in that respect. PVP is an integral part of the design of this game.

 

So sorry to have to break it to you. 

You haven't said anything that I didn't know already.

My point is that the game SHOULD have been designed as a PvE game, because the PvP will inevitably unbalance the PvE for the reason I stated in my previous post.

Also just because there is war in Tamriel that doesn't mean that automatically the game should include PvP, you can easily fight wars against NPCs..............after all you do that in the single player games.

PvP don't add anything to the game and will attract the E-gamers that inevitably will ruin the immersion and the "magic" of Tamriel.

I am convinced that this game will have a mediocre PvE, and a Mediocre PvP, like most of the MMO who share the same philosophy...................PvP and PvE don't go well together, WoW was a one off on this subject (like for everything else).

 

And you shouldn't be sorry for me, but with Zenimax, because they will be terribly disappointed by the poor player retention.

Because I am sure they will sell millions of copies (I will buy one regardless), but I am sure they won't retain many of those players after 1-2 months.

 

 

 

  Brabbit1987

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 718

7/23/13 7:45:12 AM#25
Originally posted by ste2000
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by ste2000

 

This ain't pre-cataclysm WOW. There is neither perma-stealth nor do you have to PVP as a tank if you like to PVE as one. This is not being designed as a PVE game with tacked-on PVP as is the case with most themeparks and why they all feel so lacking in that respect. PVP is an integral part of the design of this game.

 

So sorry to have to break it to you. 

You haven't said anything that I didn't know already.

My point is that the game SHOULD have been designed as a PvE game, because the PvP will inevitably unbalance the PvE for the reason I stated in my previous post.

Also just because there is war in Tamriel that doesn't mean that automatically the game should include PvP, you can easily fight wars against NPCs..............after all you do that in the single player games.

PvP don't add anything to the game and will attract the E-gamers that inevitably will ruin the immersion and the "magic" of Tamriel.

I am convinced that this game will have a mediocre PvE, and a Mediocre PvP, like most of the MMO who share the same philosophy...................PvP and PvE don't go well together, WoW was a one off on this subject (like for everything else).

 

And you shouldn't be sorry for me, but with Zenimax, because they will be terribly disappointed by the poor player retention.

Because I am sure they will sell millions of copies (I will buy one regardless), but I am sure they won't retain many of those players after 1-2 months.

 

 

 

You know the funny thing is, I am not  abig fan of PVP, but I most certainly do not think it doesn't add anything to a game. 

It throws off PVE? Well then why don't they just balance it? You know, like they are suppose to do? I really am confused on what makes you think having pvp in a game automatically unbalances the pve and why you act like there is no way to balance it. 

In my honest opinion, I think you are thinking WAY to much into it. Making WAY too many assumptions based on little merit.

I realize balancing a game can be hard, but you clearly are acting like it's an impossible thing to do which it isn't.

  zeusypoofs

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/13
Posts: 24

 
OP  7/23/13 1:03:50 PM#26
well i know this is a little to early to talk about end game, but i dont want to do the same old fighting for keeps when i cap. im just saying i would like more options for PvP.
  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 4101

7/23/13 3:28:06 PM#27
Originally posted by zeusypoofs
well i know this is a little to early to talk about end game, but i dont want to do the same old fighting for keeps when i cap. im just saying i would like more options for PvP.

Most MMOs have that. This one doesn't...should all of them be the same?

 

Some people (raises hand) think that scenario PVP with its quick duration, small maps and instant scoreboards are boring as all hell. Been there...done that. Don't want to do that ever again.

 

The PVP in this one--where you succeed by working together in a very large group through good leadership and coordination--is the thinking man's PVP... I like it. I can do this for one hell of a lot longer than either scenario PVP or repetitive expert dungeons or raids. There are plenty of other games that cater to that. I'm very happy this one doesn't. It's a big plus as far as I'm concerned.

  Vendac

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/13
Posts: 39

7/23/13 3:54:47 PM#28
Originally posted by ste2000

You haven't said anything that I didn't know already.

My point is that the game SHOULD have been designed as a PvE game, because the PvP will inevitably unbalance the PvE for the reason I stated in my previous post.

Also just because there is war in Tamriel that doesn't mean that automatically the game should include PvP, you can easily fight wars against NPCs..............after all you do that in the single player games.

PvP don't add anything to the game and will attract the E-gamers that inevitably will ruin the immersion and the "magic" of Tamriel.

I am convinced that this game will have a mediocre PvE, and a Mediocre PvP, like most of the MMO who share the same philosophy...................PvP and PvE don't go well together, WoW was a one off on this subject (like for everything else).

And you shouldn't be sorry for me, but with Zenimax, because they will be terribly disappointed by the poor player retention.

Because I am sure they will sell millions of copies (I will buy one regardless), but I am sure they won't retain many of those players after 1-2 months.

What a great attitude and false assumptions that you make. 

Designing yet another PvE game is not the answer.  Companies have been trying that method for years and it still has not worked.  Look at every major MMO that has been released in the last 10 years.  The have all failed to unseat WoW, which is the king of PvE.  Granted, its a very weary king, but its still the king.  Many of these so called "WoW killers" are now reduced to free to play status.

PvE is far more easy to balance than PvP ever will be.  Why?  Because PvE is a static environment.  A strategy is figured out for doing an encounter, and it remains a constant unless the devs openly change the encounter.  Its been that way for years, all the way back to Ultima Online and EverQuest.

PvP games will always be harder to balance because the player is an ever evolving entity.  When one strategy is figured out, another is devised to counter that strategy.  There is never one master strategy that tops all the others.

As far as PvP balance messing up the PvE balance, does it really matter?  You can design encounters (PvE) around players, but not the other way around.  Players will gravitate to the most effective builds and gear.  Its entirely up the devs to keep the players in check.  Everyone wants to faceroll with the easiest best build?  Good, make the encounter directly counter those builds.  Or better yet, take the old school route, where encounters are really hard, requiring 100+ players all working together to get something done.

WoW was never a good PvP game.  Its faceroll, timer dump and gear score at it finest.  A bad player in good gear could beat a good player in average gear.  At least that is the meaning Im drawing from your post.

I honestly hope they get some good player retention and can maintain a million paying subs.  If they can do that, they can do something no developer has been able to do in quite a few years.

You cant fix stupid - Ron White

  zeusypoofs

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/13
Posts: 24

 
OP  7/23/13 3:58:44 PM#29
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by zeusypoofs
well i know this is a little to early to talk about end game, but i dont want to do the same old fighting for keeps when i cap. im just saying i would like more options for PvP.

Most MMOs have that. This one doesn't...should all of them be the same?

 

Some people (raises hand) think that scenario PVP with its quick duration, small maps and instant scoreboards are boring as all hell. Been there...done that. Don't want to do that ever again.

 

The PVP in this one--where you succeed by working together in a very large group through good leadership and coordination--is the thinking man's PVP... I like it. I can do this for one hell of a lot longer than either scenario PVP or repetitive expert dungeons or raids. There are plenty of other games that cater to that. I'm very happy this one doesn't. It's a big plus as far as I'm concerned.

I see your point, but why couldn't they have both. im not saying one or the other. this way woundly everyone be happy?

  Vendac

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/13
Posts: 39

7/23/13 4:00:36 PM#30
Originally posted by Iselin

Some people (raises hand) think that scenario PVP with its quick duration, small maps and instant scoreboards are boring as all hell. Been there...done that. Don't want to do that ever again.

 

The PVP in this one--where you succeed by working together in a very large group through good leadership and coordination--is the thinking man's PVP... I like it. I can do this for one hell of a lot longer than either scenario PVP or repetitive expert dungeons or raids. There are plenty of other games that cater to that. I'm very happy this one doesn't. It's a big plus as far as I'm concerned.

You should have played DAOC back in its glory days.... 

Hopefully the devs can pull some of that back into this game.  100v100v100 fights are truly epic in scale.  But DAOC also supported many other styles of play, 8 man for the heavy team guys, small group for the people just looking for a fight, solo for those that just want to lone wolf it, and battlegrounds where lower level players can just go fight each other in the same ways the top level guys did, but without the worry of being ganked by people far out of your level range.

You cant fix stupid - Ron White

  Vendac

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/13
Posts: 39

7/23/13 4:03:51 PM#31
Originally posted by zeusypoofs

I see your point, but why couldn't they have both. im not saying one or the other. this way woundly everyone be happy?

Why do they need to do something everyone else is doing?

Im not against battlegrounds type warfare, but it gets stale over time.  Its been done to death a million times already.

You cant fix stupid - Ron White

  zeusypoofs

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/13
Posts: 24

 
OP  7/23/13 4:05:44 PM#32
Originally posted by Vendac
Originally posted by ste2000

You haven't said anything that I didn't know already.

My point is that the game SHOULD have been designed as a PvE game, because the PvP will inevitably unbalance the PvE for the reason I stated in my previous post.

Also just because there is war in Tamriel that doesn't mean that automatically the game should include PvP, you can easily fight wars against NPCs..............after all you do that in the single player games.

PvP don't add anything to the game and will attract the E-gamers that inevitably will ruin the immersion and the "magic" of Tamriel.

I am convinced that this game will have a mediocre PvE, and a Mediocre PvP, like most of the MMO who share the same philosophy...................PvP and PvE don't go well together, WoW was a one off on this subject (like for everything else).

And you shouldn't be sorry for me, but with Zenimax, because they will be terribly disappointed by the poor player retention.

Because I am sure they will sell millions of copies (I will buy one regardless), but I am sure they won't retain many of those players after 1-2 months.

What a great attitude and false assumptions that you make. 

Designing yet another PvE game is not the answer.  Companies have been trying that method for years and it still has not worked.  Look at every major MMO that has been released in the last 10 years.  The have all failed to unseat WoW, which is the king of PvE.  Granted, its a very weary king, but its still the king.  Many of these so called "WoW killers" are now reduced to free to play status.

PvE is far more easy to balance than PvP ever will be.  Why?  Because PvE is a static environment.  A strategy is figured out for doing an encounter, and it remains a constant unless the devs openly change the encounter.  Its been that way for years, all the way back to Ultima Online and EverQuest.

PvP games will always be harder to balance because the player is an ever evolving entity.  When one strategy is figured out, another is devised to counter that strategy.  There is never one master strategy that tops all the others.

As far as PvP balance messing up the PvE balance, does it really matter?  You can design encounters (PvE) around players, but not the other way around.  Players will gravitate to the most effective builds and gear.  Its entirely up the devs to keep the players in check.  Everyone wants to faceroll with the easiest best build?  Good, make the encounter directly counter those builds.  Or better yet, take the old school route, where encounters are really hard, requiring 100+ players all working together to get something done.

WoW was never a good PvP game.  Its faceroll, timer dump and gear score at it finest.  A bad player in good gear could beat a good player in average gear.  At least that is the meaning Im drawing from your post.

I honestly hope they get some good player retention and can maintain a million paying subs.  If they can do that, they can do something no developer has been able to do in quite a few years.

i play wow, i have a 460 ilvl, which is quite bad, and partnered up with a guy with 480. we went 9-5 which is good cause people we have played against had full tyrannical which i think is 498 ilvl, so no its not all about the gear. :)

  zeusypoofs

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/13
Posts: 24

 
OP  7/23/13 4:09:19 PM#33
Originally posted by Vendac
Originally posted by zeusypoofs

I see your point, but why couldn't they have both. im not saying one or the other. this way woundly everyone be happy?

Why do they need to do something everyone else is doing?

Im not against battlegrounds type warfare, but it gets stale over time.  Its been done to death a million times already.

What they are doing with pvp has been done already too. i dont think a game has ever had them both together before. and one faction dominating isn't going to be that enjoyable.

  Vendac

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/13
Posts: 39

7/23/13 4:10:17 PM#34
Originally posted by zeusypoofs

i play wow, i have a 460 ilvl, which is quite bad, and partnered up with a guy with 480. we went 9-5 which is good cause people we have played against had full tyrannical which i think is 498 ilvl, so no its not all about the gear. :)

No but if the gear levels were equal, you would simply crushed them all 14-0 if you were a good enough player.

Forcing people on a gear treadmill is not a fun endgame for people that truly enjoy PvP.

You cant fix stupid - Ron White

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 4101

7/23/13 4:13:11 PM#35
Originally posted by Vendac
Originally posted by Iselin

Some people (raises hand) think that scenario PVP with its quick duration, small maps and instant scoreboards are boring as all hell. Been there...done that. Don't want to do that ever again.

 

The PVP in this one--where you succeed by working together in a very large group through good leadership and coordination--is the thinking man's PVP... I like it. I can do this for one hell of a lot longer than either scenario PVP or repetitive expert dungeons or raids. There are plenty of other games that cater to that. I'm very happy this one doesn't. It's a big plus as far as I'm concerned.

You should have played DAOC back in its glory days.... 

Hopefully the devs can pull some of that back into this game.  100v100v100 fights are truly epic in scale.  But DAOC also supported many other styles of play, 8 man for the heavy team guys, small group for the people just looking for a fight, solo for those that just want to lone wolf it, and battlegrounds where lower level players can just go fight each other in the same ways the top level guys did, but without the worry of being ganked by people far out of your level range.

Oh, but I did :) Albion in Guinevere mostly. From release and for 2 years after that. The best PVP I've ever played...warts and all.

BGs were a later addition once there was a large population at 50 to give the low level players somewhere to PVP without getting wiped in 3 seconds. But even those were much better than any of the standard scenario PVP as we've come to know them these days. I still cringe when I think of Hutball.

The beauty of the frontiers was that anything could be going on there at any given time: from small to huge. The most fun for me was planning and executing large relic raids with various small groups performing faints and delaying actions and solo stealthers scouting while the main group went for the relic. There was something to do for everyone. 

  zeusypoofs

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/13
Posts: 24

 
OP  7/23/13 4:16:18 PM#36
Originally posted by Vendac
Originally posted by zeusypoofs

i play wow, i have a 460 ilvl, which is quite bad, and partnered up with a guy with 480. we went 9-5 which is good cause people we have played against had full tyrannical which i think is 498 ilvl, so no its not all about the gear. :)

No but if the gear levels were equal, you would simply crushed them all 14-0 if you were a good enough player.

Forcing people on a gear treadmill is not a fun endgame for people that truly enjoy PvP.

i would crush them because i am the better player, which would make them try to get better. forcing one style of pvp on people will not be enjoyable for people who like smaller pvp groups

  karat76

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/22/06
Posts: 1011

Greatest threat to society is letting casualties of puberty reproduce.

7/23/13 4:16:43 PM#37
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Vendac
Originally posted by Iselin

Some people (raises hand) think that scenario PVP with its quick duration, small maps and instant scoreboards are boring as all hell. Been there...done that. Don't want to do that ever again.

 

The PVP in this one--where you succeed by working together in a very large group through good leadership and coordination--is the thinking man's PVP... I like it. I can do this for one hell of a lot longer than either scenario PVP or repetitive expert dungeons or raids. There are plenty of other games that cater to that. I'm very happy this one doesn't. It's a big plus as far as I'm concerned.

You should have played DAOC back in its glory days.... 

Hopefully the devs can pull some of that back into this game.  100v100v100 fights are truly epic in scale.  But DAOC also supported many other styles of play, 8 man for the heavy team guys, small group for the people just looking for a fight, solo for those that just want to lone wolf it, and battlegrounds where lower level players can just go fight each other in the same ways the top level guys did, but without the worry of being ganked by people far out of your level range.

Oh, but I did :) Albion in Guinevere mostly. From release and for 2 years after that. The best PVP I've ever played...warts and all.

BGs were a later addition once there was a large population at 50 to give the low level players somewhere to PVP without getting wiped in 3 seconds. But even those were much better than any of the standard scenario PVP as we've come to know them these days. I still cringe when I think of Hutball.

The beauty of the frontiers was that anything could be going on there at any given time: from small to huge. The most fun for me was planning and executing large relic raids with various small groups performing faints and delaying actions and solo stealthers scouting while the main group went for the relic. There was something to do for everyone. 

DAoC was the last time I even remotely enjoyed pvp. The battlegrounds for low levels were ok but I really enjoyed keep battles. Though it was also fun to take my hunter out and solo hunt people. For me the two biggest issues in DAoC was Trials of Atlantis and buffbots.

  Vendac

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/13
Posts: 39

7/23/13 4:18:44 PM#38
Originally posted by Iselin

Oh, but I did :) Albion in Guinevere mostly. From release and for 2 years after that. The best PVP I've ever played...warts and all.

BGs were a later addition once there was a large population at 50 to give the low level players somewhere to PVP without getting wiped in 3 seconds. But even those were much better than any of the standard scenario PVP as we've come to know them these days. I still cringe when I think of Hutball.

The beauty of the frontiers was that anything could be going on there at any given time: from small to huge. The most fun for me was planning and executing large relic raids with various small groups performing faints and delaying actions and solo stealthers scouting while the main group went for the relic. There was something to do for everyone. 

9 years between Alb Tristan and Mid Galahad with a little dabbling in Hib after Ywain started. ;)  Lots of wasted times, but lots of good memories and friends I still talk to, and have even met alot of them in person.

I remember playing the original BGs back then.  Good times.  The game was wicked hard.  You had to have people help you, and you had to work together to get anywhere.  No MMO has that anymore. 

 

You cant fix stupid - Ron White

  Vendac

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/13
Posts: 39

7/23/13 4:36:05 PM#39
Originally posted by zeusypoofs
Originally posted by Vendac
Originally posted by zeusypoofs

I see your point, but why couldn't they have both. im not saying one or the other. this way woundly everyone be happy?

Why do they need to do something everyone else is doing?

Im not against battlegrounds type warfare, but it gets stale over time.  Its been done to death a million times already.

What they are doing with pvp has been done already too. i dont think a game has ever had them both together before. and one faction dominating isn't going to be that enjoyable.

The beauty of a true 3 realm system where the sides are unequal is that the overpowered side, should get teamed up on the 2 lesser sides.  A truly open world supports many styles of play as I pointed out before, providing the world is big and diverse enough.  GW2 did 3 faction, but it was poorly done.  Long waits to get in, all 3 sides were limited to approximately the same sized force, and the land mass was too small.

Battlegrounds at top level only do one thing, pull people away from open world PvP.  WoW had decent open world PvP at release, then BGs were put in, and people just ground it out there because it was easier.  Rift had the same problem.  True PvP servers, but everyone played the BGs because it was easier to grind there, and the open world areas really stunk for PvP (small, too many mobs).  And as much as I despised the WAR endgame, the BGs and open field PvP were alot of fun on the way to 40.  I hope ESO chooses open world only, and if possible, BGs for the lower level folks to have fun in. 

You cant fix stupid - Ron White

  zeusypoofs

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/13
Posts: 24

 
OP  7/23/13 4:40:23 PM#40
Originally posted by Vendac
Originally posted by zeusypoofs
Originally posted by Vendac
Originally posted by zeusypoofs

I see your point, but why couldn't they have both. im not saying one or the other. this way woundly everyone be happy?

Why do they need to do something everyone else is doing?

Im not against battlegrounds type warfare, but it gets stale over time.  Its been done to death a million times already.

What they are doing with pvp has been done already too. i dont think a game has ever had them both together before. and one faction dominating isn't going to be that enjoyable.

The beauty of a true 3 realm system where the sides are unequal is that the overpowered side, should get teamed up on the 2 lesser sides.  A truly open world supports many styles of play as I pointed out before, providing the world is big and diverse enough.  GW2 did 3 faction, but it was poorly done.  Long waits to get in, all 3 sides were limited to approximately the same sized force, and the land mass was too small.

Battlegrounds at top level only do one thing, pull people away from open world PvP.  WoW had decent open world PvP at release, then BGs were put in, and people just ground it out there because it was easier.  Rift had the same problem.  True PvP servers, but everyone played the BGs because it was easier to grind there, and the open world areas really stunk for PvP (small, too many mobs).  And as much as I despised the WAR endgame, the BGs and open field PvP were alot of fun on the way to 40.  I hope ESO chooses open world only, and if possible, BGs for the lower level folks to have fun in. 

Yea but i just love my 2v2s

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