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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Who wants camping back?

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448 posts found
  Cephus404

Novice Member

Joined: 2/27/08
Posts: 3697

7/16/13 7:13:43 PM#141
Originally posted by nariusseldon

2) uh? That is the definitely of camping. And i doubt you can do what you claim. I would love to see that. WOW is designed to have small number of pull. I doubt (unless you are a pally), you can pull 10 mobs and survive.

I always find it absurd that we have to tell people to go find harder mobs if they're having the above kind of experience.  It's like it never crossed their minds that there are harder mobs they can "camp" if they really want to where this isn't true.

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  Kaledren

Novice Member

Joined: 12/24/11
Posts: 154

7/16/13 7:19:15 PM#142
Originally posted by Cephus404
Originally posted by nariusseldon

2) uh? That is the definitely of camping. And i doubt you can do what you claim. I would love to see that. WOW is designed to have small number of pull. I doubt (unless you are a pally), you can pull 10 mobs and survive.

I always find it absurd that we have to tell people to go find harder mobs if they're having the above kind of experience.  It's like it never crossed their minds that there are harder mobs they can "camp" if they really want to where this isn't true.

Dude....it's WoW. As much as you want to be in denial...it's very easy. Hence, why I don't play it anymore. I love you guys seem to think people are too dim witted to seek out tougher mobs...but aside from raiding...most WoW mobs in the world (What's left of it anyways amongst the billion instances) are fairly easy.

 

  Kaledren

Novice Member

Joined: 12/24/11
Posts: 154

7/16/13 7:20:33 PM#143
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Kaledren
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Kaledren

 

Don't deny others options they find enjoyable just because you don't enjoy them.

Sure. You can camp in WOW now. No one is stopping you. The option is there.

True. But the difference is...

 

1. I Played WoW 4 years ago and won't go back...as it's even more solo friendly then it was before.

2. Due to the solo friendliness...I wouldn't call it camping when you can pull an entire camp in WoW and massacre them in most cases without dying.

1) Then go to another MMO that has spawns. There is nothing preventing you to sit around, and just kill.

2) uh? That is the definitely of camping. And i doubt you can do what you claim. I would love to see that. WOW is designed to have small number of pull. I doubt (unless you are a pally), you can pull 10 mobs and survive.

What? I think you failed the comprehend what I said.

 

When I think of camping...I think of camping an area for maybe hours...where killing a few mobs takes long enough for ones you killed earlier to respawn...so if you wish, it can be endless without rest unless you require it.

 

When mobs are simple enough to kill all of them in 5 minutes...as with WoW...then sure...I guess it can still be camping...but it's boring camping as you have to sit and wait for them to all repop instead of a continuous chain...or go elsewhere and come back...which would then not be camping.

  Kuvneril

Novice Member

Joined: 7/12/13
Posts: 7

7/16/13 7:30:59 PM#144

I somewhat agree. Maybe killing the "grind" wasn't the best idea.

Only thing I see is one less gameplay experience.

  Chieftan

Novice Member

Joined: 5/16/05
Posts: 1420

 
OP  7/16/13 7:45:38 PM#145
Originally posted by Zorgo
Originally posted by Chieftan

I thought about the mechanics of spawn camping vs dungeoning on my feet for the past oh, about 10 years now, I'm kinda ready to just chill at a camp again.

 

Think about it: you go to an area, group up, pick a campsite and just chill there pulling mobs to your spot. 

 

Maybe change things up a little from the early days of EQ such as:

 

1) Kill X mobs in X amount of time quests or "scalp" style turn-in quests

2)Random boss/named spawns

3)Random multi-mob spawns...think you've got the spawn broken?  Put in a random chance for 4 mobs to spawn where 1 normally does.

4)Remember the cool places you used to camp in EQ?  It could be a kitchen, a throne room, a campfire, etc.  Developers could really liven it up with some visually interesting camp spots.

5)"Hold the line" camps where you rain fire on a sea of orcs trying to cross the moat

Honestly none of this would require a massive re-coding of any current MMO.  Pump up the spawns in a given area and let people have at it.  Unlike the days of EQ you could still have the normal quest-quest-quest for exp path of current MMOs; this would just give players another alternate way of gaining levels.

Do you remember not being able to get your epic because your mob was camped 24/7 by guilds on  rotation with a calender set up?

Fix that and I might be on board.

Show me where I said anything about camping epics.

5 hours of ESO videos...and counting

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  Kaledren

Novice Member

Joined: 12/24/11
Posts: 154

7/16/13 7:48:20 PM#146
Originally posted by Kuvneril

I somewhat agree. Maybe killing the "grind" wasn't the best idea.

Only thing I see is one less gameplay experience.

That's just it though....the grind is still there. Just a lot of people on this site choose to not recognize it because it doesn't help their cause of saying older MMORPG's grind sucked, or was done away with because it isn't what the majority wanted.

 

Yet...look at any newer MMORPG's endgame raiding. It is grinding...no matter how you look at it. For gear, for xp....but mainly gear....oh...and bragging rights (server 1sts). Just that it's all at the end of the journey instead of throughout it. Although..many also have it throughout in small quantities.

  StonesDK

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/06/11
Posts: 1842

7/16/13 7:53:56 PM#147
Originally posted by Betaguy
Originally posted by StonesDK
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Um. Whats stopping you from doing that now?

I've done camping when I felt like it in every game I've ever played, including WoW.

Nobody want to gimp their progress just to bring back old memories. I'm sure what's being discussed is a game where it's the best viable way to progress for everyone.

They are not talking about it being the best viable option for progression... think about that for a moment. Gesus!

Maybe it should be

If you are rewarded the same way by camping as you would be by doing quests then you would have to have two separate areas for it to work and that would take major programming. The reason why it would have to be two separate areas is because those doing quests would be killing mobs the same way a camper would, which would give them double the reward from both worlds. That would leave those camping at a "disadvantage" for not picking up quests while just doing one of the two.

 

  WW4BW

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/03/06
Posts: 492

7/16/13 8:25:24 PM#148
Originally posted by Chieftan
Originally posted by Zorgo
Originally posted by Chieftan

I thought about the mechanics of spawn camping vs dungeoning on my feet for the past oh, about 10 years now, I'm kinda ready to just chill at a camp again.

 

Think about it: you go to an area, group up, pick a campsite and just chill there pulling mobs to your spot. 

 

Maybe change things up a little from the early days of EQ such as:

 

1) Kill X mobs in X amount of time quests or "scalp" style turn-in quests

2)Random boss/named spawns

3)Random multi-mob spawns...think you've got the spawn broken?  Put in a random chance for 4 mobs to spawn where 1 normally does.

4)Remember the cool places you used to camp in EQ?  It could be a kitchen, a throne room, a campfire, etc.  Developers could really liven it up with some visually interesting camp spots.

5)"Hold the line" camps where you rain fire on a sea of orcs trying to cross the moat

Honestly none of this would require a massive re-coding of any current MMO.  Pump up the spawns in a given area and let people have at it.  Unlike the days of EQ you could still have the normal quest-quest-quest for exp path of current MMOs; this would just give players another alternate way of gaining levels.

Do you remember not being able to get your epic because your mob was camped 24/7 by guilds on  rotation with a calender set up?

Fix that and I might be on board.

Show me where I said anything about camping epics.

 Play nice and they put you on the rotation or let you join the current group.. Be a dick and you wont get your epic.. Be a dick with friends and steal it.

  WW4BW

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/03/06
Posts: 492

7/16/13 8:36:33 PM#149
Originally posted by StonesDK
Originally posted by Betaguy
Originally posted by StonesDK
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Um. Whats stopping you from doing that now?

I've done camping when I felt like it in every game I've ever played, including WoW.

Nobody want to gimp their progress just to bring back old memories. I'm sure what's being discussed is a game where it's the best viable way to progress for everyone.

They are not talking about it being the best viable option for progression... think about that for a moment. Gesus!

Maybe it should be

If you are rewarded the same way by camping as you would be by doing quests then you would have to have two separate areas for it to work and that would take major programming. The reason why it would have to be two separate areas is because those doing quests would be killing mobs the same way a camper would, which would give them double the reward from both worlds. That would leave those camping at a "disadvantage" for not picking up quests while just doing one of the two.

 

 There are too many quests in MMOs today.. We all hate them. I think quest hubs are a far worse kind of grind than going out and finding a camp spot that suits my level that isnt taken and teaming up with passersby.. Was fun to keep a line open with other groups so you could arrange a takeover when they were done with the "good" spot. 

 

  Zorgo

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/05/05
Posts: 2216

Who did wrong? The advertiser hired to sell the game or the consumer who put faith in advertising?

7/16/13 8:56:15 PM#150
Originally posted by Chieftan
Originally posted by Zorgo
Originally posted by Chieftan

I thought about the mechanics of spawn camping vs dungeoning on my feet for the past oh, about 10 years now, I'm kinda ready to just chill at a camp again.

 

Think about it: you go to an area, group up, pick a campsite and just chill there pulling mobs to your spot. 

 

Maybe change things up a little from the early days of EQ such as:

 

1) Kill X mobs in X amount of time quests or "scalp" style turn-in quests

2)Random boss/named spawns

3)Random multi-mob spawns...think you've got the spawn broken?  Put in a random chance for 4 mobs to spawn where 1 normally does.

4)Remember the cool places you used to camp in EQ?  It could be a kitchen, a throne room, a campfire, etc.  Developers could really liven it up with some visually interesting camp spots.

5)"Hold the line" camps where you rain fire on a sea of orcs trying to cross the moat

Honestly none of this would require a massive re-coding of any current MMO.  Pump up the spawns in a given area and let people have at it.  Unlike the days of EQ you could still have the normal quest-quest-quest for exp path of current MMOs; this would just give players another alternate way of gaining levels.

Do you remember not being able to get your epic because your mob was camped 24/7 by guilds on  rotation with a calender set up?

Fix that and I might be on board.

Show me where I said anything about camping epics.

Uh......your title which said: Who wants camping back? and then when you said "Do you remember the cool places you used to camp in EQ?"

So I answered, I would want camping back, if the system were able to solve the problem of having all the 'cool' boss camps taken and spending your entire evening running from dungeon to dungeon trying to find ONE boss that dropped something worth having that wasn't camped. The extreme outcome of camping was the time period where it was virtually impossible to obtain your epic because the boss you needed was always CAMPED.

Can you show me in your scenario how you avoid such issues?

You know why we shouted, 'camp check?' Because most of them were always taken.

Do I want it back? ABSOLUTELY. But solve that problem first.

All I'm saying is that camping had some major drawbacks. Your ideas are great. But you gotta think of unintended consequences. How do you ensure there is a camp with worthy rewards available to every group all the time? Or do  you think there should be some groups that are just shit-outta-luck? 

What I remember about the cool camps in EQ is that it was prohibitively difficult to find one available.

 

  Zorgo

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/05/05
Posts: 2216

Who did wrong? The advertiser hired to sell the game or the consumer who put faith in advertising?

7/16/13 9:05:23 PM#151
Originally posted by WW4BW
 

 Play nice and they put you on the rotation or let you join the current group.. Be a dick and you wont get your epic.. Be a dick with friends and steal it.

Well joining the current group didn't do jack for you because someone from the guild camping it already had the 1 person slated to loot it.

Yeah, you can get on the rotation. I was 4th in line in my guild who was on the calender with 5 other guilds which meant I waited 3 months before I got to loot the mob. 

But yeah, the other down side is one you allude to - you could wait for months for your turn and then a dick guild out of the rotation would come and KS the mob or train your guild.

Camping provided some of my best times in EQ.

It also provided some of the most miserable.

I want to see camping again - but there were some huge fat elephants in the room you guys can't apparently see with your rose-tinted glasses.

  User Deleted
7/16/13 10:16:04 PM#152


Originally posted by Cephus404
That's always been the way it's worked, sorry.  Businesses are in business to make money and they do that by appealing to the largest audience possible.  It's just that there is a larger audience available since MMOs went mainstream.

I think my primary purpose behind what I stated was pointing out how the companies and corporations possibly are approaching the whole MMO genre wrong. MMO's are about people especially people of similar interests i.e. loves sci fi, loves lord of the rings, loves fantasy etc. MMO's are successful through long term success, box sales doesn't necessarily apply too well especially since MMO's demands so much of a person's time for an indefinite amount of time.

The above is the reasons why I focused so much on the social aspects of "camping" etc. because ultimately this is what MMO's have over single player versions of their respective genres. If all everyone wants to do is collect loot and are just using others as an ends to a means, then those people are better off playing single player games which contain much better story, AI and environmental interactions etc.

MMO's are MAINLY about interaction with people otherwise there is no point to the genre. Some of it is nostalgia and I can agree with that but I do think MMO design has played a part in trivializing what MMO's were about originally and fundamentally i.e. the loot ladders WoW has created, how many other MMO's have attempted and followed same molds, trying to improve upon that mold etc.

MMO's should be made up of systems and an environment that promotes social interaction ("good, "evil" and "neutral" etc.), not merely one-way dungeon runs and gear collecting treadmills. I think consumers are beginning to notice this trend and are becoming smarter on where they put their money and how their time spent, hence my opinion on MMO currently in a decline right now, popularity-wise.

  STYNKFYST

Novice Member

Joined: 5/27/13
Posts: 313

7/16/13 10:21:30 PM#153
No one wants camping back who is/are a serious MMO gamer.
  Kaledren

Novice Member

Joined: 12/24/11
Posts: 154

7/16/13 10:22:31 PM#154
Originally posted by Jairoe03

 


Originally posted by Cephus404
That's always been the way it's worked, sorry.  Businesses are in business to make money and they do that by appealing to the largest audience possible.  It's just that there is a larger audience available since MMOs went mainstream.

 

I think my primary purpose behind what I stated was pointing out how the companies and corporations possibly are approaching the whole MMO genre wrong. MMO's are about people especially people of similar interests i.e. loves sci fi, loves lord of the rings, loves fantasy etc. MMO's are successful through long term success, box sales doesn't necessarily apply too well especially since MMO's demands so much of a person's time for an indefinite amount of time.

The above is the reasons why I focused so much on the social aspects of "camping" etc. because ultimately this is what MMO's have over single player versions of their respective genres. If all everyone wants to do is collect loot and are just using others as an ends to a means, then those people are better off playing single player games which contain much better story, AI and environmental interactions etc.

MMO's are MAINLY about interaction with people otherwise there is no point to the genre. Some of it is nostalgia and I can agree with that but I do think MMO design has played a part in trivializing what MMO's were about originally and fundamentally i.e. the loot ladders WoW has created, how many other MMO's have attempted and followed same molds, trying to improve upon that mold etc.

MMO's should be made up of systems and an environment that promotes social interaction ("good, "evil" and "neutral" etc.), not merely one-way dungeon runs and gear collecting treadmills. I think consumers are beginning to notice this trend and are becoming smarter on where they put their money and how their time spent, hence my opinion on MMO currently in a decline right now, popularity-wise.

Although I understand exactly where you are coming from and whole heartedly agree...you will learn fast on this site...that you are better off talking to a wall with a certain group of individuals.

 

 

  User Deleted
7/16/13 10:28:11 PM#155

Hey if 1 person gets to read my thoughts, thats good enough for me. Plus I been on here since 2009. Just haven't been active in this board for a couple years. But I'm getting back into this sorta thing. Its somewhat my passion ;)

  STYNKFYST

Novice Member

Joined: 5/27/13
Posts: 313

7/16/13 10:45:07 PM#156
Originally posted by Jairoe03

Hey if 1 person gets to read my thoughts, thats good enough for me. Plus I been on here since 2009. Just haven't been active in this board for a couple years. But I'm getting back into this sorta thing. Its somewhat my passion ;)

I have been here since 2004 (yes not this account) and I'm not sure why you mention this. Camping has been frowned upon forever after the early MMOs. It's lame and should  never be put in place again

  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 6122

7/16/13 10:50:32 PM#157
Originally posted by Loktofeit

For a crowd that is constantly clamoring for realism, innovation and immersion - a crowd that spends a good amount of time deriding others for being instant gratification kiddies who are lacking in patience and mentally incapable of enjoying the journey - you sure do love throwing out these curveballs to keep devs on their toes as to what in the holy fucking hell they could possibly create to satisfy you.

According to this thread, you want to sit in a spot, doing nothing, while you wait for a mob to materialize out of thin air, and you'll only do it if it won't gimp your progress any, so it has to have great XP and loot.

According to this thread, you are the sum of everything you loathe about the MMO gamer.

 

 

 

one of the few times I agree with Loktofeit so you know something has to be wrong with this thread if thats the case. just saying.

  User Deleted
7/16/13 11:58:27 PM#158


Originally posted by STYNKFYST

Originally posted by Jairoe03 Hey if 1 person gets to read my thoughts, thats good enough for me. Plus I been on here since 2009. Just haven't been active in this board for a couple years. But I'm getting back into this sorta thing. Its somewhat my passion ;)
I have been here since 2004 (yes not this account) and I'm not sure why you mention this. Camping has been frowned upon forever after the early MMOs. It's lame and should  never be put in place again


I'm not necessarily supporting that we should have camping. I'm pointing out experiences that camping has created albeit indirectly. Before, camping was about a collective achieving a goal. People didn't mind waiting, people didn't mind not being directly awarded. Now, no one will even consider doing things like that unless there is something in it for them or it would be deemed a waste of their time.


Long story short, I'm saying companies have nurtured the wrong aspects of MMO's, ignored how important providing social systems were and instead encouraged gathering gear/loot, rewarding yourself like following an endless trail of cookie crumbs. It became the focal point instead of encouraging social interaction through other means. It was a cheap gimmick employed by WoW for many years until it got stale.


BTW I only mentioned that I was here since 2009 as an understanding to how its like on these forums, I just forgot to be explicit enough when I stated that.

  User Deleted
7/17/13 12:04:06 AM#159


Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by Loktofeit For a crowd that is constantly clamoring for realism, innovation and immersion - a crowd that spends a good amount of time deriding others for being instant gratification kiddies who are lacking in patience and mentally incapable of enjoying the journey - you sure do love throwing out these curveballs to keep devs on their toes as to what in the holy fucking hell they could possibly create to satisfy you. According to this thread, you want to sit in a spot, doing nothing, while you wait for a mob to materialize out of thin air, and you'll only do it if it won't gimp your progress any, so it has to have great XP and loot. According to this thread, you are the sum of everything you loathe about the MMO gamer.      
one of the few times I agree with Loktofeit so you know something has to be wrong with this thread if thats the case. just saying.

In regards to the enigma of MMO Gamers', I wouldn't question the audience or consumer's interests/desires and would question why companies feel so obligated to cater to the whole MMO audience rather than a smaller piece. Companies look at MMO's like any other games and I think thats a big mistake on their part.


I love guild wars 2 but look at how they approached drawing in as many as possible. They literally dissected the whole concept into subconcepts. Sure they have something for as many subsects of MMO players as possible but their game isn't cohesive at all. You can't affect anyone in the PvE world through WvW and small scale PvP translates to no direct change at all. Each little thing they try to incorporate to cater to the "masses" they need a separate team for and that requires more resources etc.


The thing that I feel they did right was breaking barriers. Finding ways for players to be able to play with other players despite levels (somewhat). People actually are able to camp together without having to be directly associated with each other. It's not a perfect system but a step in the right direction IMO.


In short, Don't blame the general audience for having diverse interest, blame the companies for not being focused enough. If a games design is shallow they are going to get shallow players and vice versa for much deeper games. Deep games doesn't necessarily make everyone happy but their customers tend to be around for years i.e. EVE Online. They are considered successful at below 1 million subscribers.

  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16776

7/17/13 12:11:00 AM#160

I don't miss the camping part, particularly since you know someone shows up in the last second and tag the mob under my nose.

In fact I rather have no mobs standing around and waiting for people to kill them. Mobs should act a bit more logical, both in and out of combat. Spawning should either be random or from a logical place. Ogres could spawn from the ogre village and walk to their spot (you could camp the ogre village of course but that should spawn a rather large number of angry ogres).

There is indeed many things I miss from the old MMOs but camping isn't one of them. It is not challenging, nor fun.

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