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EverQuest Next

EverQuest Next 

General Discussion  » POLL: should all races be allowed to play every classes?

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140 posts found
  jdlamson75

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/27/08
Posts: 904

There's some lovely filth down here.

7/13/13 4:38:40 PM#61
Originally posted by someforumguy

I voted yes, because I can't vote for 'I don't want classes'. I know a lot of eq vets want holy trinity classes. That would just turn EQNext into another tank/spank themepark, so no thanks.

Right there with you.  No classes.  Skills with a cap, please.

  Deathage

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/12/10
Posts: 113

Wannafightaboutit?

7/13/13 5:25:02 PM#62

I would be okay with every race being able to play every class IF it came at a cost. 

For instance, say you were a troll, whose race's traditional social structure is arranged such that shaman are their spiritual leaders/healers. Now, say you also really want to play a priest. In a clan of trolls, a priest would be considered an outsider and embody the imperialistic, bourgeois ideals of the supposed "higher" races (stupid humans). Realistically, anyone CAN do anything they set their mind to, but only at the cost of relationships (sometimes.) You can't decide to be a Satanist in a Catholic family and expect there to be no blow back. So you can be that troll priest  if you REALLY want to, but in doing so you sacrifice your reputation among your race, preventing you from accessing content/gear/what have you that you would otherwise be able to access.

God knows what the reality will be, and I'm not holding my breath for anything like this is EQN, but its worth a thought!

  Sinaku

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 464

7/13/13 5:27:50 PM#63

I voted no. Usually it is lore breaking when all races can play all classes (unless the series was made that way initially like Aion/Tera). For example, when Horde got Paladins and Alliance got Shaman in WoW...

  observer

Elite Member

Joined: 2/17/05
Posts: 2233

First came pride, then envy.

7/13/13 5:56:40 PM#64
I chose no.  I like uniqueness for my characters.  That's one thing i disliked about EQ2 and even GW2.  It's not a gamebreaker for me though, but i just prefer races with unique classes.
  jonesing22

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/01/10
Posts: 704

7/13/13 6:06:09 PM#65
Originally posted by arieste
Originally posted by kitarad
It screws the lore up so no.

That's not an issue in the case of Everquest since it's SOE's proprietary world.

SOE designs Lore around the gameplay they create.   So if they design a game where humans can be evil, then according to the lore, humans can be evil.  There no 3rd party lore for SOE to be aligning to like with LoTR or Star Wars.  Whatever SOE decides to do, THAT is the lore.

 

Not to mention that in general it makes for extremely bad and hard to immerse yourself in lore where every single person of a certain race is automaticaly defined to be of a certain moral standing and/or profession.  

See, this is the problem. People are talking about EQ but looking at WoW. EQ was/is not based on good vs evil. Alliance vs. Horde. Light vs. Dark. There are many 'factions'. Usually, the factions you are friendly with follow the same deity as you or they have the same alignment as you. Dark Elves, Ogres, and Trolls in EQ were allied because they all worshipped the same deities. Depending on which of the many deities you chose, limited your options towards your alignment. Like a human that was agnostic, could go to the dwarf city Kaladim and not get killed by the guards. But a Human that followed Innoruuk, would be killed by the guards.

IMO, this is depth. This is what games do not have anymore. hopefully EQN delivers. 

  Tindale111

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/21/12
Posts: 185

7/13/13 6:10:13 PM#66
I voted no, but I guess if somebody really wanted a troll mage if there was a penalty on their intelligence as there is in a lot of mmos/rpg games no problem with that tho why you would want to with a handicap maybe just to be a bit different :P
  Gallus85

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/13/11
Posts: 1113

7/13/13 6:14:05 PM#67
Originally posted by Tindale111
I voted no, but I guess if somebody really wanted a troll mage if there was a penalty on their intelligence as there is in a lot of mmos/rpg games no problem with that tho why you would want to with a handicap maybe just to be a bit different :P

It doesn't have to be a handicap.  I could just have different benefits.  A troll mage might do less damage with spells, but able to endure more damage and get knocked down / stunned less.  Remember, as these game's combat systems are getting more advanced and more of them are going to action style combat, the days of sitting in the back throwing fireballs and not getting hit are pretty much gone.

A gnome warrior might do less damage and get stunned more, but maybe they're more agile and avoid attacks better or learn skills faster with higher intelligence.

It just comes down to roleplaying and how you want to customize your character.

Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL

  waynejr2

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3735

RIP City of Heroes!

7/13/13 6:19:32 PM#68
Originally posted by Gallus85
Originally posted by waynejr2

Opening everything up to everyone because the customer should get whatever he wants is part of what is wrong with games these days. It's the spoiled little brats who kick and scream until they get their way.  It's entitlement.

No, I want the devs to show them who the boss is and not cave into their demands.  Because if the devs cave in on one thing, they will cave in over and over again.  It teaches the children they can be rewarded with their tactics.

How does more freedom on class / race combinations have anything to do with entitlement?

You could easily reverse this statement back around on you.  "People who think classes should not have any race restrictions are just being brats trying to take what they like about other games and force their preferences on other people.  The devs should not cave to these people who think their entitled to getting what they want".

See how that works?

This rant to me sounds more like you enjoy talking about "entitlement" even in subjects that have nothing to do with it.  We're not talking about loot hand outs and free houses.  We're talking about character customization.  Get a grip.

Also, I think more freedom is better, but EQ and EQ2 had class/race restrictions.  I expect them to be following suite with this game, and I don't think either choice is detrimental to the enjoyment of the game.

Because you feel you are entitled to this little bit of "freedom". 

WHY SHOULD YOU GET IT?

  jonesing22

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/01/10
Posts: 704

7/13/13 6:21:36 PM#69
Originally posted by jdlamson75
Originally posted by someforumguy

I voted yes, because I can't vote for 'I don't want classes'. I know a lot of eq vets want holy trinity classes. That would just turn EQNext into another tank/spank themepark, so no thanks.

Right there with you.  No classes.  Skills with a cap, please.

Another person who thinks being a certain class determines what skills, armor, and weapons you can use. 

EQ was not like many newer MMOs where there is 4 classes and all 4 classes get a different armor and weapon type. In EQ, you had many choices as to which weapon you used depending on what class you were. Warriors, for example, could use any weapon. Two-handed/one-handed swords, axes, clubs, shields, bows, anything that wasn't a class specific weapon like a ranger epic sword or something. Now mages, couldn't use as many weapons. Daggers, some clubs, most staves. Now clerics, druid, and shamans could only use blunt type weapons unless it was a that classes signature weapon. Shamans had spears, Clerics had Flails, druids had scimitars. Now here is the best part, every weapon type in the game had a skill identifier of ##/400. I think I could be wrong on the skill cap. Anyway the cap isn't important. Whats important is that there is a skill based system with a cap. The more you used the skill, the more it went up. You couldn't go from using swords as a warrior and suddenly switching to 2 handed club. Well, you could equip it, but you would have to use it for a while before you do much damage with it. The damage you dealt with a weapon was determined by your skill with it's type. 

So, in short, you CAN have classes and skills with a cap.

  Gallus85

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/13/11
Posts: 1113

7/13/13 6:31:37 PM#70
Originally posted by waynejr2
Originally posted by Gallus85
Originally posted by waynejr2

Opening everything up to everyone because the customer should get whatever he wants is part of what is wrong with games these days. It's the spoiled little brats who kick and scream until they get their way.  It's entitlement.

No, I want the devs to show them who the boss is and not cave into their demands.  Because if the devs cave in on one thing, they will cave in over and over again.  It teaches the children they can be rewarded with their tactics.

How does more freedom on class / race combinations have anything to do with entitlement?

You could easily reverse this statement back around on you.  "People who think classes should not have any race restrictions are just being brats trying to take what they like about other games and force their preferences on other people.  The devs should not cave to these people who think their entitled to getting what they want".

See how that works?

This rant to me sounds more like you enjoy talking about "entitlement" even in subjects that have nothing to do with it.  We're not talking about loot hand outs and free houses.  We're talking about character customization.  Get a grip.

Also, I think more freedom is better, but EQ and EQ2 had class/race restrictions.  I expect them to be following suite with this game, and I don't think either choice is detrimental to the enjoyment of the game.

Because you feel you are entitled to this little bit of "freedom". 

WHY SHOULD YOU GET IT?

Because you feel you're entitled to less "freedom".

WHY SHOULD YOU GET IT?

I don't feel I'm entitled to anything.  I get what the devs give and I find the good in it and play it or I move on to something I enjoy.  My point is that this subject has nothing to do with entitlement and your argument is laughable at best.

Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL

  Gallus85

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/13/11
Posts: 1113

7/13/13 6:36:05 PM#71
Originally posted by jonesing22
Originally posted by jdlamson75
Originally posted by someforumguy

I voted yes, because I can't vote for 'I don't want classes'. I know a lot of eq vets want holy trinity classes. That would just turn EQNext into another tank/spank themepark, so no thanks.

Right there with you.  No classes.  Skills with a cap, please.

Another person who thinks being a certain class determines what skills, armor, and weapons you can use. 

EQ was not like many newer MMOs where there is 4 classes and all 4 classes get a different armor and weapon type. In EQ, you had many choices as to which weapon you used depending on what class you were. Warriors, for example, could use any weapon. Two-handed/one-handed swords, axes, clubs, shields, bows, anything that wasn't a class specific weapon like a ranger epic sword or something. Now mages, couldn't use as many weapons. Daggers, some clubs, most staves. Now clerics, druid, and shamans could only use blunt type weapons unless it was a that classes signature weapon. Shamans had spears, Clerics had Flails, druids had scimitars. Now here is the best part, every weapon type in the game had a skill identifier of ##/400. I think I could be wrong on the skill cap. Anyway the cap isn't important. Whats important is that there is a skill based system with a cap. The more you used the skill, the more it went up. You couldn't go from using swords as a warrior and suddenly switching to 2 handed club. Well, you could equip it, but you would have to use it for a while before you do much damage with it. The damage you dealt with a weapon was determined by your skill with it's type. 

So, in short, you CAN have classes and skills with a cap.

He is saying he wants to custom create his own class using skill points.

For example, you have something like 4 trees, Tank, Healer, Melee DPS, Magic DPS

And in those trees you have branching skills spells and stat bonuses and you can distribute the points how you want.

Make a "Warrior with enchanter CC spells", or a pure Enchanter, or an Enchanter with Necro spells, etc etc.

He's not talking about what you're talking about.

This is all moot though, EQN is already confirmed to have a class system.  Not a choose-your-skills system.

Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL

  jonesing22

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/01/10
Posts: 704

7/13/13 7:16:19 PM#72
Originally posted by Gallus85
Originally posted by jonesing22
Originally posted by jdlamson75
Originally posted by someforumguy

I voted yes, because I can't vote for 'I don't want classes'. I know a lot of eq vets want holy trinity classes. That would just turn EQNext into another tank/spank themepark, so no thanks.

Right there with you.  No classes.  Skills with a cap, please.

Another person who thinks being a certain class determines what skills, armor, and weapons you can use. 

EQ was not like many newer MMOs where there is 4 classes and all 4 classes get a different armor and weapon type. In EQ, you had many choices as to which weapon you used depending on what class you were. Warriors, for example, could use any weapon. Two-handed/one-handed swords, axes, clubs, shields, bows, anything that wasn't a class specific weapon like a ranger epic sword or something. Now mages, couldn't use as many weapons. Daggers, some clubs, most staves. Now clerics, druid, and shamans could only use blunt type weapons unless it was a that classes signature weapon. Shamans had spears, Clerics had Flails, druids had scimitars. Now here is the best part, every weapon type in the game had a skill identifier of ##/400. I think I could be wrong on the skill cap. Anyway the cap isn't important. Whats important is that there is a skill based system with a cap. The more you used the skill, the more it went up. You couldn't go from using swords as a warrior and suddenly switching to 2 handed club. Well, you could equip it, but you would have to use it for a while before you do much damage with it. The damage you dealt with a weapon was determined by your skill with it's type. 

So, in short, you CAN have classes and skills with a cap.

He is saying he wants to custom create his own class using skill points.

For example, you have something like 4 trees, Tank, Healer, Melee DPS, Magic DPS

And in those trees you have branching skills spells and stat bonuses and you can distribute the points how you want.

Make a "Warrior with enchanter CC spells", or a pure Enchanter, or an Enchanter with Necro spells, etc etc.

He's not talking about what you're talking about.

This is all moot though, EQN is already confirmed to have a class system.  Not a choose-your-skills system.

Good. More like EQ and less like Rift

  User Deleted
7/13/13 7:39:14 PM#73

I voted yes. Too much racism and classism irl anyway.

  evilized

Elite Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 545

7/13/13 7:43:01 PM#74
yes. if you want to be a wood elf necromancer then why the hell not? lore? that is a stupid argument because each character is as individual as its creator meaning there are good hearted dark elves and evil halflings running around norrath, especially if SoE wants to call this a sandbox.
  Gallus85

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/13/11
Posts: 1113

7/13/13 7:51:04 PM#75
Originally posted by evilized
yes. if you want to be a wood elf necromancer then why the hell not? lore? that is a stupid argument because each character is as individual as its creator meaning there are good hearted dark elves and evil halflings running around norrath, especially if SoE wants to call this a sandbox.

Ya that's what I said.  Some people just don't get it.

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  Miblet

Novice Member

Joined: 8/19/10
Posts: 333

7/13/13 8:20:46 PM#76
Originally posted by evilized
yes. if you want to be a wood elf necromancer then why the hell not? lore? that is a stupid argument because each character is as individual as its creator meaning there are good hearted dark elves and evil halflings running around norrath, especially if SoE wants to call this a sandbox.

Given that they have said they want the world to be a living breathing environment (as much as you can in modern MMOs) lore would actusally be a pretty good arguement or why even bother calling it Everquest? or basing it in Norrath?

I can understand many people couldn't care less about any backstory or setting their games take place in but there are many who do.  Why is it any better for you to tell others how to play than others telling you?

The term sandbox also has differing meanings and magnitudes depending on who you ask.  As for it's application to EQN nobody knows yet, but I can almost guarantee 'completely free open do anything' sandbox some are hoping for... it won't be.

I voted no, I hope they stick to their guns on the game to some degree.  As much as people mocked it I wouldn't mind a return to the 'You're in our world' philosophy, as people don't know what they really want and many, if given what they asked for, would moan about it just as badly as any incarnation handed them originially.

  hayes303

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/13/04
Posts: 361

7/13/13 8:22:07 PM#77
I vote no, expect for iksar. They should be able to be every class because they are pure awesome.
  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 3202

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

7/14/13 3:06:58 AM#78


Originally posted by Dihoru
LOL... voldemort lacking human characteristics... dude... you need to learn how to analyse books better... Voldemort is the textbook example of a non-powerless smeagol, he is the individual who thirsted for power and who's thirst only grew from (if I remember correctly) the abuse of the people who raised him as a child... not to mention being shun by his own father.

So, if you can "empathize" with an "evil" person, they are no longer evil? Am I reading you right? Was Voldemort not evil because he was beaten by his father? Was he then justified in his actions?

A male lion takes over a pride. He kills the young cubs of the former leader so that makes the female ready to mate again, to carry his own cubs to birth. Was he "evil?" Do you "empathize" with him? Is he human?

An orphan boy steals a loaf of bread for him and his little sister. Because they are hungry, does that justify the end? Is he less "evil" because you "empathize" with him? Did he ask for help from others? Did he try to find work? Did he ask the bakery owner if he could have it? No. He decided stealing was right. Because you "empathize" with him, is he right? Should anyone be able to steal if they are hungry?

What does "empathy" have to do with humanistic characteristics? I am seeing that you cannot drop your real world expectations and accept differing views. You project your own real world beliefs on a fantasy system.

EQ was based on choices by players. Having everyone able to be everything throws away those choices. It makes everyone "the same" instead of very different. Why even have different races if all they are is eye candy?

All that being said, I am actually FOR a system of "be anything." EQ is just not a game based in that system. If they wanted to make a game with this type of game play, by all means make it. Do NOT call it EQ. TES:O has the same problem. Attach the IP and expectations arise. Did you ever play EQ? Or is this just another, "I want every MMO made to be the way *I* it, regardless of what they want to present." type of comment?

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  User Deleted
7/14/13 3:33:51 AM#79
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

 


Originally posted by Dihoru
LOL... voldemort lacking human characteristics... dude... you need to learn how to analyse books better... Voldemort is the textbook example of a non-powerless smeagol, he is the individual who thirsted for power and who's thirst only grew from (if I remember correctly) the abuse of the people who raised him as a child... not to mention being shun by his own father.


So, if you can "empathize" with an "evil" person, they are no longer evil? Am I reading you right? Was Voldemort not evil because he was beaten by his father? Was he then justified in his actions?

 

A male lion takes over a pride. He kills the young cubs of the former leader so that makes the female ready to mate again, to carry his own cubs to birth. Was he "evil?" Do you "empathize" with him? Is he human?

An orphan boy steals a loaf of bread for him and his little sister. Because they are hungry, does that justify the end? Is he less "evil" because you "empathize" with him? Did he ask for help from others? Did he try to find work? Did he ask the bakery owner if he could have it? No. He decided stealing was right. Because you "empathize" with him, is he right? Should anyone be able to steal if they are hungry?

What does "empathy" have to do with humanistic characteristics? I am seeing that you cannot drop your real world expectations and accept differing views. You project your own real world beliefs on a fantasy system.

EQ was based on choices by players. Having everyone able to be everything throws away those choices. It makes everyone "the same" instead of very different. Why even have different races if all they are is eye candy?

All that being said, I am actually FOR a system of "be anything." EQ is just not a game based in that system. If they wanted to make a game with this type of game play, by all means make it. Do NOT call it EQ. TES:O has the same problem. Attach the IP and expectations arise. Did you ever play EQ? Or is this just another, "I want every MMO made to be the way *I* it, regardless of what they want to present." type of comment?

Being evil is a choice, just like being good is a choice, the fact you even used the lion example proves you're not grasping the difference between sentient beings and either animals or fantasy cardboard cutouts.

You miss the point completely btw... you cannot empathize with that which is not even in the least sense human (can you empathize with a virus? a tornado? rust?).I am surprised you didn't try to go with the only genre where human characteristics aren't known in the antagonists: horror (pure horror btw, not hybrids or anything else). That is the only genre where the inability to empathize with something makes it more effective.

If the game is a sandbox a "be anything but with consequences" system is what is needed and considering this is a reboot (something that TES:O is not I might add, it is classed as a prequel if I am not mistaken) then your IP argument falls apart (lest we compare other reboots which ended up being better than the original by leaps and bounds, not saying it is always the case but still).

  arieste

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/11/04
Posts: 3309

7/14/13 6:39:06 AM#80
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

EQ was based on choices by players. Having everyone able to be everything throws away those choices. 

What do you mean "throws away choices"?   If you're born into a race that can never commit an evil act, that forever takesa whole universe of choices away from that character.    Leading a good or righteous life isn't something people should do "by default".  It should be done by actions and earned - earned by CHOICES made.   

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