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EverQuest Next

EverQuest Next 

General Discussion  » Why SOE doesnt care about you

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65 posts found
  Dreamo84

Defender of Worlds

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 3171

I actually still like MMORPGs

7/13/13 12:52:05 PM#21

Problem is, we already know it's going to be different from WoW. They already scrapped it once and restarted. Your opinion would make sense if we hadn't already heard some things about their development philosophies.

They specifically stated that they didn't want to make the same MMO again. They said it won't be like EQ or EQ2 or WoW or anything that exists currently. I think SoE realizes that trying to compete with WoW directly is pointless. But there is a market for other MMOs and they are going to try and tap into that.

Will they succeed? I don't know but it's going to be interesting to see.

  Kiyoris

Novice Member

Joined: 7/13/13
Posts: 356

7/13/13 12:54:24 PM#22
Originally posted by Fendel84M

Problem is, we already know it's going to be different from WoW. 

ThisThis forum is great to discuss Everquest Next. Can we keep WoW out of the discussion thanks!

WoW WoW WoW...in every discussion. Jesus!

  nerovipus32

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 2725

7/13/13 12:55:35 PM#23
The vast majority of the people playing wow only play wow. They might try your game out for a month but they always go back to wow. Developing a game with those players in mind is a recipe for failure.
  Margulis

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/14/08
Posts: 1643

7/13/13 1:02:06 PM#24
Originally posted by MMOGamer71
Originally posted by Waterlily
Originally posted by bayanmerkid

they will build a more mature WoW

Like the thousands of other WoW clones out there .

WoW is a clone.

Oh the overly broad definition of "clone" argument again.....  "all mmo's are clones you push buttons!!" 

  Aelious

Elite Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2540

World > Quest Progression

7/13/13 1:02:44 PM#25
I think some say "WoW clone" so much they forget what it actually means. Everything we know so far (which is arguably tiny) tells us it WON'T be a WoW clone, not the other way around. Graphics do not make an MMO a WoW clone.

I see the point you are trying to make OP and it's solid. The fact is though the majority opinion is shifting and SoE seen this. WoW is losing subs and more this year 12%! Other actual WoW clones are met with little interest after the first few months.

SoE is claiming they are trying to change what kind of MMO they play, which people seem to be ready for. Will they do it? Do they have the goods? We don't know but I hope so.
  Latronus

Novice Member

Joined: 1/10/08
Posts: 718

PC is not political correctness, it means Political Cowardice!

7/13/13 1:03:18 PM#26
Originally posted by Waterlily
Originally posted by MMOGamer71

ME, D&D and EQ1.

Pretty liberal use of the word clone no. WoW might have similarities in some areas, a clone it is not.

No, it is a clone period.  Doesn't matter if you believe it or not.  If you looked hard enough you would find that probably ever aspect of WoW came from somewhere else. The only thing they really did that was original was to dumb down EQ and previous games so that even a brain dead zombie can play it. 

WoW is a clone like it or not.  It was not the first at anything other than dumbing the genre down.

  Dreamo84

Defender of Worlds

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 3171

I actually still like MMORPGs

7/13/13 1:04:36 PM#27
Originally posted by nerovipus32
The vast majority of the people playing wow only play wow. They might try your game out for a month but they always go back to wow. Developing a game with those players in mind is a recipe for failure.

The truth! WoW is such a freak of nature. I know so many people IRL that randomly used to play WoW hardcore or still do but never have or never will play another MMO. They don't even know other MMOs exist! People need to realize that WoW players are not a potential player base for other MMOs. Not all of them at least.

  Margulis

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/14/08
Posts: 1643

7/13/13 1:04:37 PM#28
Originally posted by Kilmar
Originally posted by Kleptobrainiac

I am a clone of my parents before me!

 

We're all clones!!!!!

Wrong, a clone is something, that is genetically identic to something else. You only have the half genome of both of your parents, this doesnt make you a clone.

I think his post was actually sarcastic to mmogamer71, but I could be wrong.

  Kiyoris

Novice Member

Joined: 7/13/13
Posts: 356

7/13/13 1:05:53 PM#29
Ok you guys, let's keep this about EQNext, not WoW. WoW is very popular, but if I wanted WoW I would play WoW.
  User Deleted
7/13/13 1:08:03 PM#30
Well technically if WoW is a mish mash of 3 different games wouldn't that make WoW a gene splicing experiment, not a clone?
  Ehliya

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/13/06
Posts: 191

7/13/13 1:09:42 PM#31

It all depends on what SOE is shooting for.  If their goal is:

- something easy that makes as much money in as short a time as possible in existing markets regardless of how customers are treated, sucking the last nickel out of the remnants of credibility the EQ name still possesses

OR

- something new and innovative that will create and expand a brand new market, earning them long term customer loyalty by re-launching an improved version of one of their most beloved brands

Right now, SOE is one of the most hated companies in the computer MMO entertainment field.  Time and again they have taken old horse meat, doused it in sauce to cover the flavor, and sold it as prime rib.  Or taken someone else's beautiful young princess and turned her into a painted courtesan.

I think where EQN lands depends on whether SOE take the short or long term view on MMO as one of their products.  If EQN is another derivative dump on the heads of their customers, I don't think anyone will be lining up for their next MMO - ever.  They will basically  become a company that does FPS and e-sports games.  We will have to wait for someone else in the future to take the genre to the next, more deep and thought-provoking, level of innovation.

We shall see.  Do we trust Smedley or not?

  Gardavsshade

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/27/11
Posts: 663

7/13/13 1:15:04 PM#32
Originally posted by bayanmerkid
..........

When a very large company designs an MMO they will obviously go after their largest possible player base, if you played EQ 1, 2, or SWG you probably arent their target market, heck if you post on this forum you probably arent their target market. If you play WOW, COD, Guild Wars 1 or 2, wear a hat backwards while playing texas holdem watching UFC in your friends basement your probably their target market.

.........

I believe that you Bayanmerkid are absolutely CORRECT with this statement.

MMO Investors, Publishers, and especially Developers STOPPED making MMORPGs for original MMORPG Players years ago. It's quite obvious.

This is why I have no faith in what people say around here.... that future MMOs will have more sandbox and old style content and maybe a return of the "good old days" of MMOs... the Devs today can't make the old school MMOs because for the most part from what I have been able to find out the vast majority of Devs are Console Gamers and Console Devs! How in the hell can they EVER understand what we old school MMORPG Players want in a MMO? They can't. Period.

I would have better luck getting my 70 year old Mother who knows nothing of Gaming to make a good MMO than to trust the current crop of Developers and Publishers to be honest.

All MMOs are now made for the Masses, that gigantic group of People that would not have been the least bit interested in DAoC, UO, AO, SWG, EQ, etc. MMO Devs have no interest whatsoever in making MMOs for the original fans of MMOs. Just like Baseball, once the money People took over the Past-time was altered forever. I remember my Grandfather lamenting about how Baseball got changed and now we are seeing it happen to MMOs.

This is why SOE doesn't care about us.

Even Rolf of Wurm Online is bending and twisting Wurm to appeal more to the Masses, and the game many of us loved is getting buried in more new Themepark Features with every new patch. I left Wurm after years of enjoying it because Rolf is shifting his target group of Players he wants for the game and it's blatantly obvious.

So... I play everything a little if I think I might like it some, I get what enjoyment I can from the current MMOs, and I refrain from deluding Myself or lying to Myself that the "good old days" of MMORPGs will ever happen again.

Originally posted by Ehliya
.....

We shall see.  Do we trust Smedley or not?

As for Smedley... I don't believe anything He says. Not one word. We shall see what kind of beast EQNext is when it gets released.

  monstrosity93

Novice Member

Joined: 7/07/13
Posts: 11

7/13/13 1:16:56 PM#33
Originally posted by bayanmerkid

Everquest had 450,000 subscribers in 2003, Everquest 2 when it was subscription based had over 500,000, since going ftp it has tripled in players. World of Warcraft had 12 million subscribers in late 2010.

If you are reading this and saying that I'm trolling this message board, think again. I played EQ 1 and loved it, I played it day one for three years. Everquest 2 I played for a year, SWG i played for 2. I also played WOW for 2 years. Personally I think WoW was really easy but Im sure any EQ player would agree with that, I digress from my point.

When a very large company designs an MMO they will obviously go after their largest possible player base, if you played EQ 1, 2, or SWG you probably arent their target market, heck if you post on this forum you probably arent their target market. If you play WOW, COD, Guild Wars 1 or 2, wear a hat backwards while playing texas holdem watching UFC in your friends basement your probably their target market. Im sure at this point your saying Im generalizing but the fact is to even get 1 million subscribers their not going to make an updated EQ 1 (although Im in the category wishing they would), they will build a more mature WoW with EQ lore and new enough game mechanics that although they will be familiar they wont be stale.

Im sure everyone at SOE knew that after the release of that concept art the hardcore community would have a fit, but lets be honest they care way more about the people who think that WoW was the first MMO ever created. Look on the internet at how much other websites post on rumors of EQN, they dont at all, but they do post tons of rumors on Titan and pointless news on WoW, this just shows how the majority of PC gamers are now a days.

I will play this game regardless of how grim many people think it looks, including myself. The reason why? If MMORPG and Ten Ton are getting pretty hyped about so am I. Yes there has been lots of hype about other games, SWTOR being the main one(which I thought was pretty fun as a single player game lol), but EQ is ftp so what the heck why not hold off try it. Maybe when its all said and done the nostalgia of seeing festering hags in unrest and icebones in lower guk will at least give us a smile and want us to keep exploring to see what other tidbits we find which all those WoW players looking for a new home wont understand.

If I could +1 your post I totally would. Good post and intelligent information...it's true (hoping for a updated EQ1 but..doubtful cause companies want money over a community like the gamers playing their game want. Few companies pay attention to this the right wow, sadly wow does do this for their patches but does it too well I suppose , listening to whiners on their forums about how a class is OP and then patching everything a month later. ArenaNet has done a good job of this I think with GW2 and keeping their community strong, though being a hardcore GW1 player for a long time..I was a bit dissapointed in GW2 myself, but the community is pretty great.

  Margulis

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/14/08
Posts: 1643

7/13/13 1:17:24 PM#34
Originally posted by bayanmerkid

Everquest had 450,000 subscribers in 2003, Everquest 2 when it was subscription based had over 500,000, since going ftp it has tripled in players. World of Warcraft had 12 million subscribers in late 2010.

If you are reading this and saying that I'm trolling this message board, think again. I played EQ 1 and loved it, I played it day one for three years. Everquest 2 I played for a year, SWG i played for 2. I also played WOW for 2 years. Personally I think WoW was really easy but Im sure any EQ player would agree with that, I digress from my point.

When a very large company designs an MMO they will obviously go after their largest possible player base, if you played EQ 1, 2, or SWG you probably arent their target market, heck if you post on this forum you probably arent their target market. If you play WOW, COD, Guild Wars 1 or 2, wear a hat backwards while playing texas holdem watching UFC in your friends basement your probably their target market. Im sure at this point your saying Im generalizing but the fact is to even get 1 million subscribers their not going to make an updated EQ 1 (although Im in the category wishing they would), they will build a more mature WoW with EQ lore and new enough game mechanics that although they will be familiar they wont be stale.

Im sure everyone at SOE knew that after the release of that concept art the hardcore community would have a fit, but lets be honest they care way more about the people who think that WoW was the first MMO ever created. Look on the internet at how much other websites post on rumors of EQN, they dont at all, but they do post tons of rumors on Titan and pointless news on WoW, this just shows how the majority of PC gamers are now a days.

I will play this game regardless of how grim many people think it looks, including myself. The reason why? If MMORPG and Ten Ton are getting pretty hyped about so am I. Yes there has been lots of hype about other games, SWTOR being the main one(which I thought was pretty fun as a single player game lol), but EQ is ftp so what the heck why not hold off try it. Maybe when its all said and done the nostalgia of seeing festering hags in unrest and icebones in lower guk will at least give us a smile and want us to keep exploring to see what other tidbits we find which all those WoW players looking for a new home wont understand.

Hmmmm, I kind of agree with some of this but disagree too.  I don't think wow gets a ton more coverage on most mmo sites except for the kiddie mmo sites that tend to only focus on f2p crap games.  Massively, this site, Tentonhammer - I don't see more wow stuff than any other game, and how much has there really been to talk about so far with zero information?

 

With the release of the concept art I will admit that made me question their target audience.  I'm skeptical after that art released but we will just have to wait and see.  As another poster said they scrapped the game a few times now for being too similar to other mmo's.  But does that mean the new way will actually be tailored for the old school crows or wow type mmo player?  Don't know.  I would like to see the reintroduction of a lot of the old school things like no quest markers, interactive conversation with npc's, corpse runs, etc.  But, is that going to bring them the money?  Probably not.  And they are a company like any other that is about dollars ultimately.

 

All I can really say is let's just see what happens at the reveal.  Speculation is running rampant and it is ALL based on assumptions, except for the obvious stuff they have stated like it's going to be f2p, is a sandbox, etc.

  ropenice

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 585

7/13/13 1:19:56 PM#35
This is why we need to retire the clone term-say it's similar or has too many of the same features. Every time someone says wow clone we get 3 pages of it being EQ clone or whats the definition of clone. There's only been about 3 or 4 posts about the original OP topic in 4 pages. We need some sanity!!
  donpopuki

Novice Member

Joined: 4/06/12
Posts: 603

7/13/13 1:33:00 PM#36

Trying to follow the same gaming formula that WoW has is a proven method of failure.

 

“What we’re really changing is what the game is all about,” he explained. “All the design elements. We made one fundamental shift to emergent gameplay. Once we made that shift, everything else had to follow. And what we saw was Rift. We saw The Secret World. We saw the writing on the wall with Star Wars: The Old Republic. We saw all these games that we knew were in development and very high-quality, but we saw what was going to happen—this big spike and then it goes down.”

“That’s the truth of what’s been happening with MMOs,” Smedley continued. “The fans need to realize that if you don’t change the nature of what these games are, you’re not going to change that core behavior. We want to make games that last more than 15 years. That’s why we made the decision to change it."

 

You can't beat WoW at it's own game and they know it.

  User Deleted
7/13/13 2:02:06 PM#37

They altered EQ2 to match the WoW model, and then realised it just isn't going to work the same again as it did for Blzzard. So now they are trying something new for EQN.

Do they care about niche gamers? Nope. Not unless they think that niche can become mainstream in the future.

  sumnayin

Novice Member

Joined: 1/24/11
Posts: 20

7/13/13 2:23:29 PM#38
Originally posted by nerovipus32

Wow didn't have any pvp systems at release, it was just flag yourself and kill the enemy. Wow is a more streamlined casual version of EQ but it's still heavily influenced by it. So if you can call games like warhammer or age of conan wow clones then the same can be said about wow when it comes to everquest.

The only flagging in WoW was if you were in the safe zones that are still safe zones....Neutral zones had no flagging because you were flagged when you entered.  Everquest had completely different game mechanics, your ignorance is obvious.

  Kiyoris

Novice Member

Joined: 7/13/13
Posts: 356

7/13/13 2:27:48 PM#39
Yes WoW had very different mechanics, totally different game. Not clear why we discuss WoW on every MMO release. So be it.
  Aldous.Huxley

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/04/13
Posts: 443

7/13/13 3:02:41 PM#40
Originally posted by Kilmar
Originally posted by Kleptobrainiac

I am a clone of my parents before me!

 

We're all clones!!!!!

Wrong, a clone is something, that is genetically identic to something else. You only have the half genome of both of your parents, this doesnt make you a clone.

Thank you for stating the obvious & not catching the sarcasm, Hands McButterfingers.

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