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EverQuest Next

EverQuest Next 

General Discussion  » Concept: How EQN could have open-world PVP and strongly limit griefing

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190 posts found
  grimfall

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/25/07
Posts: 1157

7/12/13 11:25:05 PM#61
Originally posted by ice-vortex
Those quotes combined with this Twitter conversation simply puts a lot more weight to the game being built ground up for PVP.

So, it's got permadeath too, then, right?

There's no way in hell the game is going to have open world non-consensual PVP.

To get back to the original post, it's just "let's have safe zones, but not technically safe zones, just pratical safe zones".  If a programmer was to read that they would translate that into 'That is what we call in the programming business' a big fucking waste of time".

"Alot of people are concerned about non consent pvp. in Details

Darrin McPherson ‏@JButlerSOE @pentapod while I cannot comment directly on this concern I can say that we avoid bad design decisions."
 
Non-consensual PVP is a bad design decision which will not be implemented.  Tattoo it on your eyelids, whatever you need to do, but get over it.
 
"So basically the whole would is made of destructible materials and anyone can attack you anywhere. BUT--here's how griefing is strongly limited:" Wrong, fail.  They've already said they're not putting it in.
 
Now, there may be PVP servers, or PVP flagging, like original EQ, but you will not be able to gank people who aren't interested in fighting with you.  Sorry.
  aspekx

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/24/05
Posts: 2197

7/12/13 11:33:37 PM#62

here's the thing: this misses the point entirely.

 

those of us who don't want to be griefed in our PvE, are not asking for it to be limited, we don't want it at all.

 

 

 

if folks want to flag themselves, or have an OW PvP continent, im all for it, im all for devs spending time and money on really, solidly supporting that style of play.

 

"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
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  Trudge34

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/08/12
Posts: 389

7/12/13 11:35:54 PM#63

Still not really sold on it. I don't have any doubt they'll have PvP servers, not one bit. The most interesting quote was what he said about everyone being everyone's content. That can be taken many different ways. I'd argue that in EQ1, everyone was everyone's content because absolutely everything in that game was interdependent on each other. The community was the core of the content for EQ in my opinion and the one thing that MMORPGs have to offer that no other genre has to offer. Not just something like a gaming community, but an actual world community much like your town you live in. People offering services for other services or money. Working together to achieve a common goal. Things that the original EQ did better than any second gen MMORPG in my opinion.

All of this can be done independent of OWPvP, but it can also include it. With the new engine, it may be even easier to make different rule sets with completely destructible areas, buildings, keeps, whatever. That would make those servers that much better IMO. Not sure if I'd be tempted to roll on them or not though. The biggest detriment to me is the chance of OWPvP really happening when I really don't want it to. Thinking of EQ1 as an example, if I want to run to KC to group up, I have to run from FV to get there. I don't think anything would piss me off more than getting ganked in the FV tunnels on my way to group when really I just want to be left the f- alone so I can get to where I want to go.

You really won't see me ever in full on anti-OWPvP. I just want a seperate PvE server to play on. Problem is, PvE has been as terrible, if not worse, than the PvP (according to PvP players I'm taking) in games the last near decade. In addition, the virtual world PvE players can't even get a decent indi sandbox because every indi sandbox that comes out has open PvP in it. Repopulation, Pathfinder Online, Darkfall, there was one that ice-vortex linked that looked awesome with world PvP in it. Why look at the EQ franchise, which as been dominantly PvE and piss your base off by forcing PvP on everyone? Does not make sense at all. They say they aren't targeting EQ players, but they'd be dumb not to seeing how loyal their base has been.

Played: EQ1 (10 Years), Guild Wars, Rift, TERA
Tried: EQ2, Vanguard, Lord of the Rings Online, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Runes of Magic and countless others...
Currently Playing: GW2

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  Bidwood

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/13
Posts: 555

 
OP  7/13/13 12:42:21 AM#64

I don't know what to say anymore, guys.

 

It seems really clear to me that they're doing something different this time with PVP.

 

I haven't seen one convincing counter-argument. Wonder if both "sides" are unable to see each other eye-to-eye.

 

I guess we'll see on Aug. 2.

  Aelious

Elite Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2435

World > Quest Progression

7/13/13 1:00:56 AM#65

(Double Post from phone net hang)

 

  Aelious

Elite Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2435

World > Quest Progression

7/13/13 1:03:47 AM#66
The 2nd will certainly answer many questions. It seems like the whole issue is here is whether there will be seperate servers. I don't think PvE players care what PvP is like as long as it's somewhere else.

Expecting EQN to have PvP as a factor for everyone seems a little unbelievable IMO. The main nail in the coffin was the confirmation of the standard SoE F2P model. F2P relies on a bigger net and making a game based on what a smaller % of people like (30-40% globally) just doesn't make any sense. Go look at any server ratio or the population of PvP game.

Yes, EvE has 500k but it's also a sub game.

Now, if the argument is that on a PvP server there should be risk/reward and many compelling system involved that's fantastic. What I'm reading though is Smed comments on PvP and the assumption that they will apply to all players which because of the payment model I find hard to believe.
  SavageHorizon

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/14/13
Posts: 1565

7/13/13 1:20:48 AM#67
Originally posted by Bidwood

I've never seen people so polarized over such a superficial issue.

 

Smedley is a social media Dread Lord and/or the traditional "PVE" fanbase is in for a MAJOR surprise.

 

Nope because EQ has always had pvp or nearly always. Smed will use different server's to separate these rule sets, it really isn't a problem. Think you are in for a major surprise if you think Smed is going to turn EQNext into some sort of Dark Fall in Norrath and PVE comes second to PVP. If you really wanted the Pvp you describe you would be playing WurmOnline. Me thinks like a lot of you so called leet pvpers, you talk a good one but here you are on these forums when you could be wtf pawns in a real sandbox mmo which has the type of pvp you say you are looking for, right?

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  SneakyTurtle

Novice Member

Joined: 6/10/13
Posts: 41

"Strike First, Strike Fast"

7/13/13 1:47:05 AM#68
This in my honest opinion is a FANTASTIC idea! I would love it if EQN had something like this and I would crap my pants if they actually did it :) But alas.. we will all find out on AUGUST 2nd or 1st, I forgot and too lazy to look.

- SneakyTurtle

  Allein

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/13
Posts: 921

7/13/13 1:59:13 AM#69

"This is not going to be Grieferquest, and every system will be designed around not allowing that. It's one of those things where you have to make it so that griefers can't ruin the experience for everyone else."

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/10/20/soe-live-2012-john-smedley-on-eq-next-and-soes-future/

They've put some thought into it I hope. There will be something in place that pleases the majority, not the vocal minority.

  Gallus85

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/13/11
Posts: 1113

7/13/13 2:08:54 AM#70
Originally posted by Bidwood

I don't know what to say anymore, guys.

 

It seems really clear to me that they're doing something different this time with PVP.

 

I haven't seen one convincing counter-argument. Wonder if both "sides" are unable to see each other eye-to-eye.

 

I guess we'll see on Aug. 2.

Not sure how you're so confused on this subject.

The game will have PVE and PVP servers.  PVP servers may/may not have some sort of anti-griefing mechanics, but there will be PVP servers.

Just as there will be PVE servers for people who don't to PVP.  That's just a no brainer.

You can have a sandbox world, risk vs reward, a great economy, without PVP on a strictly PVE server.  PVE content that kills you and breaks gear.  NPCs that attack and raid structures you've built.  Combat that effects the world.  Can all be done with PVE only.

It can be done with PVP + PVE.  It can be done with only PVP.

But if you think that they're developing this huge EQ franchise product and it's going to be forced PVP on all servers, you're just not logical in any sense.

My wife and I will be roaming around the PVP lands because that's the kind of experience we enjoy, but we have zero doubt that EQN will also have a great PVE experience and there will be PVE only servers for those who want it.

Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL

  Panzerbase

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 431

7/13/13 2:13:51 AM#71
This is always a one sided argument, the pvp crew hoping to pull in the pve fans on the same server with some promise of fairness. Really? How often do you hear of pve players lobbying to have pvp players join pve play? So the truth is pvp is dead without the pve population and they know it. Given this expect the pve players to be given the bulk of the consideration. 
  Deolus

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/30/05
Posts: 392

7/13/13 2:19:03 AM#72
Originally posted by Gallus85
Originally posted by Bidwood
 

Not sure how you're so confused on this subject.

The game will have PVE and PVP servers.  PVP servers may/may not have some sort of anti-griefing mechanics, but there will be PVP servers.

Just as there will be PVE servers for people who don't to PVP.  That's just a no brainer.

You can have a sandbox world, risk vs reward, a great economy, without PVP on a strictly PVE server.  PVE content that kills you and breaks gear.  NPCs that attack and raid structures you've built.  Combat that effects the world.  Can all be done with PVE only.

It can be done with PVP + PVE.  It can be done with only PVP.

But if you think that they're developing this huge EQ franchise product and it's going to be forced PVP on all servers, you're just not logical in any sense.

My wife and I will be roaming around the PVP lands because that's the kind of experience we enjoy, but we have zero doubt that EQN will also have a great PVE experience and there will be PVE only servers for those who want it.

I tend to agree with this.

Just because things are destructible, it doesn't automatically mean that other players will have the means to destroy them. It could be purely npc / environmental destruction. Unless you are on a PvP server that is.

 

  Panzerbase

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 431

7/13/13 2:33:50 AM#73
Your typical I need the maximum number of easy ganks thread to prove my self worth. 
  Gallus85

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/13/11
Posts: 1113

7/13/13 2:35:16 AM#74

Originally posted by Panzerbase
This is always a one sided argument, the pvp crew hoping to pull in the pve fans on the same server with some promise of fairness. Really? How often do you hear of pve players lobbying to have pvp players join pve play? So the truth is pvp is dead without the pve population and they know it. Given this expect the pve players to be given the bulk of the consideration. 

Originally posted by Deolus

I tend to agree with this.

Just because things are destructible, it doesn't automatically mean that other players will have the means to destroy them. It could be purely npc / environmental destruction. Unless you are on a PvP server that is.

@Deolus Thanks.  You agree because you have logic in your brain cells.

@Panzerbase  Yes, that's exactly the kind of PVP gameplay I want.  I want to run around and attack PVE players that just want to craft/harvest fruit/kill NPCs in peace and have no desire to pvp back with me.

Cuz that's where the real skill lies.  Ganking PVE players. lol

Seriously though, do these kids even read what they type?

It's ok.  I'm making a list of everything I've said and I'll be here on the 2nd to write a "What I said vs what came from SOE live."

We'll see if I need re-education or if I'm a genius.

Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL

  Bidwood

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/13
Posts: 555

 
OP  7/13/13 10:15:00 AM#75
When the insults start coming out over a different idea, that is usually a sign that someone is insecure.
  ReallyNow10

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/11/10
Posts: 1643

Don't give us stories. Give us worlds and we will make our own stories.

7/13/13 10:28:48 AM#76

Same ol' PVP argument:

How to introduce a problem (PVP is a problem to many) and how to limit the problem (how to mute what you are adding).

This is like starting a fire and thinking of ways to put it out.  (Maybe just leave it out in the first place, eh?)

PVP is not a universal gamer want, it is a niche request.  Should be accommodated, but never forced on the masses.

Answer:  Have a few PVP-dedicated servers, the rest are PVE

  ReallyNow10

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/11/10
Posts: 1643

Don't give us stories. Give us worlds and we will make our own stories.

7/13/13 10:29:22 AM#77
Originally posted by Panzerbase
Your typical I need the maximum number of easy ganks thread to prove my self worth. 

QFT

  Bidwood

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/13
Posts: 555

 
OP  7/13/13 11:43:13 AM#78
Originally posted by SneakyTurtle
This in my honest opinion is a FANTASTIC idea! I would love it if EQN had something like this and I would crap my pants if they actually did it :) But alas.. we will all find out on AUGUST 2nd or 1st, I forgot and too lazy to look.

Almost forgot to say: Thank you!!

 

Out of curiosity, what is your preferred playstyle?

  Phry

Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 5249

7/13/13 11:52:15 AM#79
Originally posted by Panzerbase
Your typical I need the maximum number of easy ganks thread to prove my self worth. 

Hillariously true..

there will undoubtedly be a mix of servers, from PVE, to PVP and most likely RP, those that like the whole PVP thing can pick the relevant server, but of course, we already know what will happen, they'll end up playing on the PVE server because thats where the fun is, all the while whining about how little PVP is in the game.

  Siug

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/02/12
Posts: 989

7/13/13 12:26:45 PM#80
Originally posted by Panzerbase
Your typical I need the maximum number of easy ganks thread to prove my self worth. 

Cannot agree more.

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