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EverQuest Next

EverQuest Next 

General Discussion  » Concept: How EQN could have open-world PVP and strongly limit griefing

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190 posts found
  ropenice

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 584

7/12/13 6:54:54 PM#21
Origin

Players make good PvP not companies.  If SOE creates ways for the players to engage in PvP on their own terms then the mechanics can always be balanced/changed.  For instance, they can always change the damage on spells; but if they don't allow guilds to build cities in outlying areas that can be destroyed, no amount of coding will fix their PvP.  Battlegrounds are not what I consider PvP, so adding BGs is never going to fix bad PvP.  Give players tools to create the conflict themselves, similar to how EvE has done it.

SOE doesn't need to know how to produce good PvP in order for good PvP to take place.  They need to know how to correctly code good combat; which I think they have done in both EQ and EQ2 along with PS2.   This was my big frustration with SWTOR; the combat was fun, but the fighting over their "Open PvP zone" (which was in essence just a big BG) was a huge disappointment.  I wanted to see them create worlds where guilds could fight over the resources of the world.

This concept goes hand in hand with why sandbox=PvP.  Now I'm not trying to start anything up here saying sandbox has to equal PvP, I'm merely stating why I believe that sandbox needs PvP in order for it to truly be sandbox.  As the OP has stated a sandbox PvP game does not have to equal a gankfest.  I support the design concept of the OP; I just hope that SOE had a similar vision when remaking EQN.

You're kind of contradicting yourself. You say companies don't make good pvp, but then say that the company has to design the game in certain ways to get good pvp. basically the world has to be designed for pvp, but unfortunately when games do this the resources taken a way from PvE will make that part not be as engaging which will drive off the majority of the playerbase, PvEers. I know PvP player don't like to hear it, but there are more PvEer and casuals out htere to get money from than PvPers. And to say PvP doesn't have to = gankfest, if its OW PvP then it will end up being ganky enough to run off the PvE crowd, which would mean SOE makes less money and I don't see them making that choice. You can't stop human nature with any pvp rules or consequences, if someone likes to gank, they will gank.  If PvEer even has 20-30 minutes taken away by someone who wants to gank lowbies-they will not play long.

  Grym

Novice Member

Joined: 2/17/04
Posts: 227

In total darkness, I look just like Brad Pitt.

7/12/13 6:57:52 PM#22

"This is just a concept. We don't know what the PVP will be like in EQN

 

In all of your "PvP in EQN" posts, this is the only thing you've written that is real.  We'll find out at the SOE Expo.

(My son speaking to his Japanese Grandmother) " Sorry Obaba, I don't speak Japanese, I only speak human."

  mos0811

Novice Member

Joined: 10/23/07
Posts: 173

7/12/13 6:59:36 PM#23
Originally posted by ropenice
Originally posted by mos0811

 

EvE is host to multi-national corps/alliances.  The Russians, Germans, Americans etc. all play in the same world.  How they code for those ping issues is part of smart coding.  However I also believe we will see a few servers and not just one.

I disagree that PvP has to have restrictive anti-pvp rule sets.  I like to PvP, and it's not to just kill; my preference is asset destruction, the destruction of guild assets of enemy guilds.  Personally I don't think they are targeting a PvE crowd with EQ Next.  I don't know that it will be a PvP game, but I feel it won't be the traditional EQ1/2 PvE games we have seen from the IP in the past.  So yes, I do think that SOE will alienate the minority EQ1/2 crowd in hopes of gaining ground on PvP types, and casual gamers.

Not sure i see your reasoning here. You say SOE will forgo the larger numbers of PvE players-making it a niche PVP game with low pop? And you lump in casual gamers with PvP types? Most casual gamers do PvE, and don't usually have the time or desire to get into the guild vs guild fighting where you have to put in time to build character up (or get geared) and have to be on at certain times for their scheduled battles. Same as with raids, casuals don't have the time or dedication to do that. If EQN goes PvP centric, without PvE servers, they won't make the kind of money SOE wants. Maybe I'm missing something.

I apologize, I was thinking casual FPS gamers.  It has been said that they might port EQN to the Playstation 4.  Most people I know that play the PS3 are not in depth 12 hour MMO gamers.

Developers have gone after the rainbow and the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, only to get there and realize it was a mirage.  Look at all of the games that have failed in the eyes of the public over the last 5 years.  Vanguard at one time was touted as being a WoW killer.  I feel that developers need to go after the niche market again and have numerous games with minimal subscribers.  SOE could be doing this - they have EQ1 (250k), EQ2 (250k) and EQN (500k) for subs.  Don't take subs away from your traditional PvE games, but build upon that with an IP that is more PvP focused.

People need fun games to play.  WoW holds the market on the casual fantasy MMO.  Give the players something different so they have a choice.  EQ1 hasn't been around because of it's innovations, it's around because it is fun for the people still playing it.  $200M games are not needed, how about the $20M game that could be just as fun and more successful.

I can't address your raid comment directly, but I have always felt that vertical character development was bad design.  Casual players should be able to raid from day 1, if they have the skill.  Get angry now all you people that feel that time equals something in a game.  I loved Shadowbane because it took 3 days to get a max level character; then you could join in the banes and "end game" content.  Three days is all it should take for a player to enjoy end game.  I would prefer that we had more horizontal character development, where characters are fleshed out.  For instance all characters start with 50k HP and a proper power amount.  If they want more damage they sacrifice HP or Power for the damage.  But each player has the basics to jump right into end game content.   It's a different kind of thought process, which breaks away from gear progression and traditional leveling.

  Comaf

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/13/10
Posts: 1124

I want an mmorpg where pvp matters, my enemies are not my race or class, and community matters.

7/12/13 7:04:28 PM#24
Originally posted by Bidwood

Edit/disclaimer: This is just a concept. We don't know what the PVP will be like in EQN. My intuition says it will be open-world PVP, but I hear all of the people who are saying SOE isn't stupid enough to make their new game into something that enables griefing. So here's my concept around how they could successfully execute it and keep the game fun:

 

So basically the whole would is made of destructible materials and anyone can attack you anywhere. BUT--here's how griefing is strongly limited:

Kingdoms govern territories and set the laws within them. Peaceful kingdoms would decree that unprovoked attack or theft are serious offenses. Powerful kingdoms have elite guards throughout cities and roaming the countryside. They also have some kind of magical fortifications on their buildings that give them unnaturally high resistance to attack. There would be massive 'starter' kingdoms with all of these amenities maxed out at the highest grade to virtually guarantee the safety of innocent people.

Players can go out into the fronteir, which is basically a lawless open world, to build their own stuff. They can claim whatever territory they want, but holding onto it takes money and smarts. It's a risk v.s. reward proposition.

You could set a house down and pay into protection like personal guards and magical barriers to protect your property. This would be cost-prohibitive to all but the richest barons. Most people would want to band together and take advantage of economies of scale by forming towns/cities and paying into a tax that affords higher grades of protection. It would cost more to protect a larger territory, but you could set laws that give your citizens exclusive access to the resources in the area - anyone who tries to take them or mess with your people gets mauled by the guards. You could, of course, have peace treaties with neighbouring kingdoms that allow more leniency toward your friends. Maybe the neighbouring kingdom has great supplies of lumber, whereas you have all of the steel. You could do commerce and keep each other safer from attack. (Like an actual bonus to your protection grade for allying with other kingdoms.)

The fronteir is where a lot of the risk/reward is in terms of resources and the further out you go the more rewards you can reap. The catch is, you move further away from civilization and have to defend yourself and may not have allies nearby.

So I see the game having a few very very safe cores in the form of massive 'starter' kingdoms with the highest grade of protection. (To keep it from being too themeparky, maybe the NPCs are actually running the economy necessary to pay for this. It would be like a model of a fully-formed kingdom to give players a taste of what's possible.)

The starter kingdoms would have all of the basics. You can go fight mobs, mine, craft, etc. within the boundaries of the kingdom and if you're doing it close to the many roaming guards then your safety is virtually assured. There could be roads between the cities with protection, so there is decent game within and between these cities.

And let's say you could expand on the starter cities by building on their perimeters. You'd pay taxes but your houses would get the grade A protection of the major cities. Maybe you can even buy homes inside the major cities for a fortune.

But the real rewards - the glittering prizes - would be out on the fronteir where the risk is greatest. That's where most of the PVP would be, and it would really be a free-for-all. It should cost a lot to get virtually unassailable defenses throughout a large territory, so a kingdom could go to war with you if you aren't rich enough to defend all of the resources you've got your eyes on. The world would be big enough that it's really unlikely all of the resources could be well protected. There would be a lot of strategy here - like do I invest in heavily protecting a relatively small area where my citizens live, or can I risk spreading those defenses thinner to keep a lucrative mine under our control? Protecting territory wears away at your economy, so you have to strike a balance in order to survive and grow.

One closing thought - the starter kingdoms would need to have the strictest laws about peace to prevent griefing: If you're a member of that kingdom, with the ultimate protection on all of your assets, you couldn't use that as a base of operations to go to war on an honourable kingdom out in the fronteir as they can't even retaliate. Your kingdom would call you a war monger and banish you if you did this - giving you all your resources to basically leave and start over somewhere else. HOWEVER, if there are truly notorious 'evil' kingdoms that prey on others, perhaps they would be fair game.

For anyone who read the whole thing - thank you. My idea basically gives a pretty nifty game to those who don't like PVP. There's risk to the greatest rewards, but you can band together as a community to lower that risk.

Nice writeup.  They need to build their mmorpg in a way to appeal to a fairly large audience (i.e., niche is nice but not financially supportive and will lend the cash shop way too much crap).

 

Hence, separate servers from the start.  Build the title to have the basics:

 

RP PvP

RP PvE

PVP

PVE

etc.

Or How about a Kingdom server ala a Dark Age of Camelot game? (will NEVER happen - SOE just doesn't go this in depth for pvp).

It's just not that difficult. 

  mos0811

Novice Member

Joined: 10/23/07
Posts: 173

7/12/13 7:05:20 PM#25
Originally posted by Waterlily
Originally posted by mos0811

SOE doesn't need to know how to produce good PvP in order for good PvP to take place.  They need to know how to correctly code good combat; which I think they have done in both EQ and EQ2 along with PS2.   

You think EQ PVP was a success?

I was talking about combat - as in PvE combat.  Was combat in EQ1 engaging when you were fighting a mob?  If so, then I believe they could make PvP engaging in EQN.

Good combat means the classes have roles, the classes are fun, the button mashing is large or small depending on the complexity of the class.  How a player takes a class and uses them to create good PvP is up to the player.

Shadowbane and EvE - these are 2 good PvP games, but only 1 of them will scare away PvE crowds.

I wish I could reply to a few other posts, but I have to go have a fun weekend.  Whatever SOE decides to do with the game, it will be up to each individual person on whether they want to play the game.  So far I haven't seen anything that will turn me off from trying it, and I normally play PvP games.

  PsychoticHamster

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/01/12
Posts: 97

7/12/13 7:13:32 PM#26
You more or less just described CU. Literally aside from players starting their own kingdoms, the concept you just  wrote a wall of text about is already in use from Camelot unchained. Not sure on how economics work in CU but it might be only within factions.

  Golelorn

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/23/03
Posts: 1054

7/12/13 7:14:31 PM#27

I know this for a fact. There will be no open world pvp in EQNm except on special servers. Take it to the bank.

 

  ropenice

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 584

7/12/13 7:16:19 PM#28
Originally posted by mos0811
Originally posted by ropenice
Originally posted by mos0811

 

EvE is host to multi-national corps/alliances.  The Russians, Germans, Americans etc. all play in the same world.  How they code for those ping issues is part of smart coding.  However I also believe we will see a few servers and not just one.

I disagree that PvP has to have restrictive anti-pvp rule sets.  I like to PvP, and it's not to just kill; my preference is asset destruction, the destruction of guild assets of enemy guilds.  Personally I don't think they are targeting a PvE crowd with EQ Next.  I don't know that it will be a PvP game, but I feel it won't be the traditional EQ1/2 PvE games we have seen from the IP in the past.  So yes, I do think that SOE will alienate the minority EQ1/2 crowd in hopes of gaining ground on PvP types, and casual gamers.

Not sure i see your reasoning here. You say SOE will forgo the larger numbers of PvE players-making it a niche PVP game with low pop? And you lump in casual gamers with PvP types? Most casual gamers do PvE, and don't usually have the time or desire to get into the guild vs guild fighting where you have to put in time to build character up (or get geared) and have to be on at certain times for their scheduled battles. Same as with raids, casuals don't have the time or dedication to do that. If EQN goes PvP centric, without PvE servers, they won't make the kind of money SOE wants. Maybe I'm missing something.

I apologize, I was thinking casual FPS gamers.  It has been said that they might port EQN to the Playstation 4.  Most people I know that play the PS3 are not in depth 12 hour MMO gamers.

Developers have gone after the rainbow and the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, only to get there and realize it was a mirage.  Look at all of the games that have failed in the eyes of the public over the last 5 years.  Vanguard at one time was touted as being a WoW killer.  I feel that developers need to go after the niche market again and have numerous games with minimal subscribers.  SOE could be doing this - they have EQ1 (250k), EQ2 (250k) and EQN (500k) for subs.  Don't take subs away from your traditional PvE games, but build upon that with an IP that is more PvP focused.

People need fun games to play.  WoW holds the market on the casual fantasy MMO.  Give the players something different so they have a choice.  EQ1 hasn't been around because of it's innovations, it's around because it is fun for the people still playing it.  $200M games are not needed, how about the $20M game that could be just as fun and more successful.

I can't address your raid comment directly, but I have always felt that vertical character development was bad design.  Casual players should be able to raid from day 1, if they have the skill.  Get angry now all you people that feel that time equals something in a game.  I loved Shadowbane because it took 3 days to get a max level character; then you could join in the banes and "end game" content.  Three days is all it should take for a player to enjoy end game.  I would prefer that we had more horizontal character development, where characters are fleshed out.  For instance all characters start with 50k HP and a proper power amount.  If they want more damage they sacrifice HP or Power for the damage.  But each player has the basics to jump right into end game content.   It's a different kind of thought process, which breaks away from gear progression and traditional leveling.

I get you now. You do make good points. I don't really get into the modern raiding. 50 people get together to do the traditional routine to beat said boss. Hitting the same buttons, using the same tactics, etc boring to me. I raided some in EQ1, but was in a friendly middle size guild and there wasn't the elitism, or gear checking stuff going on, just delving deep into a dungeon or zone to see how far we could get.

you might be right where they want to corner a niche market by doing it "right" to attract and keep them, niche markets are usually loyal and not as fickle as casuals. But the PvP has to have some "world" ramifications or at least a good reason to be doing it. Not just zerging around. I usually do PvE, but would always have a toon or 2 on pvp servers. Never lasted though as pops would drop or bad pvp design.

  Gallus85

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/13/11
Posts: 946

7/12/13 7:26:26 PM#29

Originally posted by mos0811

Originally posted by Gallus85
Originally posted by nerovipus32
This game will only have one server. The day of the shards are dead.

PS2 even has multiple servers.

First of all, there's a ping thing we online gamers worry about, and the only effective way to get better ping is to be closer to the server.  Distance almost entirely makes up your ping.

So there will at least be East Coast US, West Coast US, an EU server and I hope one for my Aussy Koalas down under (Sucks to be you guys always playing on US servers with 400+ ping, I feel for you)

Then there will be pvp and non pvp servers for each one of these sets.

Just FYI.

 

Also, the only way to prevent griefing is to implement very restrictive anti-pvp rule sets.  Like making you KOS to NPCs, death penalties after murders, etc etc.  Which would not be what pvp players want (They want to... I dunno.... kill lots* of people?  Not one or two a week).

So they basically have to split the servers or they'll neglect large portions of the population.  Either the PVEers or the PVPers.

EvE is host to multi-national corps/alliances.  The Russians, Germans, Americans etc. all play in the same world.  How they code for those ping issues is part of smart coding.  However I also believe we will see a few servers and not just one.

I disagree that PvP has to have restrictive anti-pvp rule sets.  I like to PvP, and it's not to just kill; my preference is asset destruction, the destruction of guild assets of enemy guilds.  Personally I don't think they are targeting a PvE crowd with EQ Next.  I don't know that it will be a PvP game, but I feel it won't be the traditional EQ1/2 PvE games we have seen from the IP in the past.  So yes, I do think that SOE will alienate the minority EQ1/2 crowd in hopes of gaining ground on PvP types, and casual gamers.

Originally posted by Waterlily

Although I'm a PVE player, I wonder why people assume EQNext will have good PVP. The EQ franchise and the people behind it have no experience with PVP whatsoever, EQ's PVP was terrible and has been ignored for 14 years, EQ2's PVP was just as bad, in fact so was Vanguard's.

So we're assuming that people who have never produced a PVP game, have no experience with the pitfalls of PVP, are going to produce an amazing form of PVP? 

Well... I guess miracles happen sometimes.

Originally posted by Waterlily

Originally posted by mos0811

SOE doesn't need to know how to produce good PvP in order for good PvP to take place.  They need to know how to correctly code good combat; which I think they have done in both EQ and EQ2 along with PS2.   

You think EQ PVP was a success?

@mos  EvE is a very different beast from what EQN is going to be combat wise (EvE is playable with out having sharp ping).  Regardless of what kind of combat system EQN has, it will not be like eve and the ping will matter a lot more.  Take a tab target combat system like aion for example, I can go through double the amount of skills when I have 40 ping vs when I have 250-300 pings (The difference in a fight between me on an east coast server vs someone playing from France / Germany.)

In an action based game aiming with high ping becomes much harder and landing skills becomes more difficult. (Most FPS servers boot people after 250 ping).

Point is, don't compare eve to EQN lol.  Ping is going to matter and they're not going to glorify one time zone and piss everyone else off.

As for "I disagree that PvP has to have restrictive anti-pvp rule sets.",  You can disagree but you will be wrong.  In a server where you're going to force PVE and PVP players to play together you would need really restrictive rule sets to give both players something they want (PVE wants some protection / reduced PVP and PVP people want to kill players).

So you can't have your cake and eat it too.  The only way non-restrictive PVP ruleset will work is if they split the servers, PVE and PVP.  That gives each set of players what they want without watering down the experience either type of player wants.

@Waterlily  People enjoyed the EQ and EQ2's pvp dynamics and how it affected contested content and Planetside / Planetside 2 are completely PVP games.  SOE can make PVP games just fine.  The planetside franchise is arguably one of the better PVP games to ever grace the PC actually.

 

Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL

  Bidwood

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/26/13
Posts: 554

 
OP  7/12/13 7:34:38 PM#30
Originally posted by PsychoticHamster
You more or less just described CU. Literally aside from players starting their own kingdoms, the concept you just  wrote a wall of text about is already in use from Camelot unchained. Not sure on how economics work in CU but it might be only within factions.

Sounds like a cool game. =) But my idea kind of relies on players being able to go build settlements around resources and turn them into kingdoms. The whole idea of building castles in the sandbox. ;)

  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16405

7/12/13 7:47:21 PM#31
Originally posted by Bidwood

I agree it's unlikely to have shards when they seem to be moving more towards super-massive integrated worlds like Planetside 2. One world would support the "largest sandbox ever" concept.

I don't expect this to appeal to the folks who never want to encounter PVP. But I'm curious to see how others feel about it. If there HAD to be open-world PVP in the game, do you see this limiting the griefing and giving everyone a way to have fun?

I rather have a lower power gap between noobs and vets together with no way to check out the actual level/power of a player.

I do remember baiting griefers in Lineage with my high level elf, they were jumping me pretty often in the noob areas and the elf craft area but didn't know that my guildes asked me to take care of them. Never made the first blow and let them attack me (I am not much into attacking lower level players unless provoked). I also rarely saw one of them ganking noobs in the same area again after they got a lesson from me. I just wish I could hear their screams when I kick out my top level spells. :)

Make it so killing someone never is 100% safe and make it so people not always can judge if you are an easy kill or not and griefing usually go down fast. Of course in Lineage you always risked losing an random item so high level noob gankers had way more to loose if they were killed in the noob area then what they earned.

The griefer type in PvP usually are the most cowardly people in those games, if you make it harder for them to find and take down an easy victim the griefing do go down. Not that Lineage didn't have many griefers but it was funny enough nowhere near what EQ2 had early on the PvP servers.

Having some safe areas don't really help that much sadly. Having some kind of knight class or bounty hunter that gets rewards for hunting down people flagged as criminals probably would work better. 

  craftseeker

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/11/09
Posts: 625

7/12/13 7:59:24 PM#32

If you really want to "strongly limit griefing" there are only three ways:

  • put PvP on separate servers
  • have an opt out flag (PvP flag)
  • do not allow PvP at all
Of these the most successful is the the third.  But of course you do not want to "strongly limit griefing" you want "open-world PvP"
So you just want the appearance of control of griefing to lure in unsuspecting PvE players to provide a continuing stock of easy targets for the rabid but ineffectual PvP player,  these in turn provide the targets for the slightly better PvP players etc.
 
In the end PvP play is self destructive egoism and should be discouraged, not pandered to.
  Bidwood

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/26/13
Posts: 554

 
OP  7/12/13 8:21:39 PM#33

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by Bidwood

I agree it's unlikely to have shards when they seem to be moving more towards super-massive integrated worlds like Planetside 2. One world would support the "largest sandbox ever" concept.

I don't expect this to appeal to the folks who never want to encounter PVP. But I'm curious to see how others feel about it. If there HAD to be open-world PVP in the game, do you see this limiting the griefing and giving everyone a way to have fun?

I rather have a lower power gap between noobs and vets together with no way to check out the actual level/power of a player.

I do remember baiting griefers in Lineage with my high level elf, they were jumping me pretty often in the noob areas and the elf craft area but didn't know that my guildes asked me to take care of them. Never made the first blow and let them attack me (I am not much into attacking lower level players unless provoked). I also rarely saw one of them ganking noobs in the same area again after they got a lesson from me. I just wish I could hear their screams when I kick out my top level spells. :)

Make it so killing someone never is 100% safe and make it so people not always can judge if you are an easy kill or not and griefing usually go down fast. Of course in Lineage you always risked losing an random item so high level noob gankers had way more to loose if they were killed in the noob area then what they earned.

The griefer type in PvP usually are the most cowardly people in those games, if you make it harder for them to find and take down an easy victim the griefing do go down. Not that Lineage didn't have many griefers but it was funny enough nowhere near what EQ2 had early on the PvP servers.

Having some safe areas don't really help that much sadly. Having some kind of knight class or bounty hunter that gets rewards for hunting down people flagged as criminals probably would work better. 

Originally posted by craftseeker

If you really want to "strongly limit griefing" there are only three ways:

  • put PvP on separate servers
  • have an opt out flag (PvP flag)
  • do not allow PvP at all
Of these the most successful is the the third.  But of course you do not want to "strongly limit griefing" you want "open-world PvP"
So you just want the appearance of control of griefing to lure in unsuspecting PvE players to provide a continuing stock of easy targets for the rabid but ineffectual PvP player,  these in turn provide the targets for the slightly better PvP players etc.
 
In the end PvP play is self destructive egoism and should be discouraged, not pandered to.

 

@Locke666 - I agree 100 per cent that levels should be hidden so people don't know the strength of their targets. If the game allows vanity slots too like DCUO, that would add to the ambiguity - because I could be decked out in the strongest armour stat-wise and actually look like I'm wearing a paper bag. This could really level the playing field by ensuring every PVP encounter is a risk. That alone would be a deterrent to a lot of unnecessary PVP.

 

@craftseeker - Them's fightin' words! I love PVP. It may be "self-destructive egoism", but you're no better. We're both sitting at a computer watching our toons look cool doing stuff. My stuff involves outsmarting other human beings. Your stuff involves outsmarting a scripted opponent that has the intelligence quotient of a peanut.

  Dullahan

Novice Member

Joined: 5/20/05
Posts: 741

Death to Themepark.

7/12/13 8:36:10 PM#34
Originally posted by Golelorn

I know this for a fact. There will be no open world pvp in EQNm except on special servers. Take it to the bank.

 

You know nothing.

Open world where almost everything you see is destructible.  Do you suppose this will be done through a series of honor duels?

Get real.

Played EQ, UO, DAoC, AO, WoW, EQII, Vanguard, Ryzom, Darkfall, Warhammer, Rift, MO, Tera, DFUW, Age of Wushu, NW2, ESO and many others I don't remember or care to admit.
-
Awaiting The Repopulation, and Pantheon ROTF.

Intrigued by Star Citizen and Archeage.
-
Don't be ignorant. Get an MMO education!

  Bidwood

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/26/13
Posts: 554

 
OP  7/12/13 8:38:32 PM#35
Originally posted by Dullahan
Originally posted by Golelorn

I know this for a fact. There will be no open world pvp in EQNm except on special servers. Take it to the bank.

 

You know nothing.

Open world where almost everything you see is destructible.  Do you suppose this will be done through a series of honor duels?

Get real.

This is why I adore you, Dullahan-chan.

  Dullahan

Novice Member

Joined: 5/20/05
Posts: 741

Death to Themepark.

7/12/13 9:24:07 PM#36
Originally posted by Waterlily

Although I'm a PVE player, I wonder why people assume EQNext will have good PVP. The EQ franchise and the people behind it have no experience with PVP whatsoever, EQ's PVP was terrible and has been ignored for 14 years, EQ2's PVP was just as bad, in fact so was Vanguard's.

So we're assuming that people who have never produced a PVP game, have no experience with the pitfalls of PVP, are going to produce an amazing form of PVP? 

Well... I guess miracles happen sometimes.

You have no idea what you're talking about.  Do some research on some of the developers and people involved in EQ Next at SOE and you will see how far from the truth that is.  I'm not even going to compile it here, its too long for a single post.

Everquest 1 was a game designed around PvE, primarily because it was based on muds, tabletop and other old roleplaying games.  It was also created in the wake of a game wholly devoted to PvP, Ultima Online, so they wanted to be different.  That said, Everquest had a PvP server from the very start that became really popular and very overcrowded.  They ended up having to launch a number of other pvp servers, all of which were really well done.

Bash EQ pvp all you want, but you clearly never played EQ on a PvP server during the classic era (launch-velious).  It was amazing, and to this day, hands down, the best pvp experience I've ever had in an mmo.  The reason being, it was the only game that ever had hardcore pvp in a game that was completely fun to play without PvP.  Everything from the diversity of classes, to the open world contested content and race wars, its simply unparalleled to this day.  Nearly every "PvP-centric" game, in turn, has been a bore and lacked different forms of meaningful progression because there is almost no long term goals or gameplay outside of pvp combat.  Thus their playerbase quickly fades away as players finish their houses and cities and find no other endgame than defending what they made.

EQ PvP in 2013 in a sandbox environment has unlimited potential.

Played EQ, UO, DAoC, AO, WoW, EQII, Vanguard, Ryzom, Darkfall, Warhammer, Rift, MO, Tera, DFUW, Age of Wushu, NW2, ESO and many others I don't remember or care to admit.
-
Awaiting The Repopulation, and Pantheon ROTF.

Intrigued by Star Citizen and Archeage.
-
Don't be ignorant. Get an MMO education!

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10375

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

7/12/13 9:55:17 PM#37

What's the point of having FFA PvP is you're going to 'strongly' limit griefing? Especially since 'griefing' itself is open to interpretation? If a primary goal is to not have griefing, why have a system in place that allows it at all?

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10375

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

7/12/13 9:56:10 PM#38


Originally posted by Dullahan

Originally posted by Golelorn I know this for a fact. There will be no open world pvp in EQNm except on special servers. Take it to the bank.  
You know nothing.

Open world where almost everything you see is destructible.  Do you suppose this will be done through a series of honor duels?

Get real.




How in the world do you know that the open world will have destructible environments?

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2620

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

7/12/13 10:00:55 PM#39
Tying the cost of Anti griefing mechanisms to the economy and making it cost prohibited is even more stupid then making the game a FFA PvP MMO In the first place.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  Trudge34

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/08/12
Posts: 388

7/12/13 10:01:57 PM#40
Originally posted by Dullahan
Originally posted by Waterlily

Although I'm a PVE player, I wonder why people assume EQNext will have good PVP. The EQ franchise and the people behind it have no experience with PVP whatsoever, EQ's PVP was terrible and has been ignored for 14 years, EQ2's PVP was just as bad, in fact so was Vanguard's.

So we're assuming that people who have never produced a PVP game, have no experience with the pitfalls of PVP, are going to produce an amazing form of PVP? 

Well... I guess miracles happen sometimes.

You have no idea what you're talking about.  Do some research on some of the developers and people involved in EQ Next at SOE and you will see how far from the truth that is.  I'm not even going to compile it here, its too long for a single post.

Everquest 1 was a game designed around PvE, primarily because it was based on muds, tabletop and other old roleplaying games.  It was also created in the wake of a game wholly devoted to PvP, Ultima Online, so they wanted to be different.  That said, Everquest had a PvP server from the very start that became really popular and very overcrowded.  They ended up having to launch a number of other pvp servers, all of which were really well done.

It was based around PvE because the devs had such a horrible time in Ultima Online due to griefing they didn't want it in their game.

Played: EQ1 (10 Years), Guild Wars, Rift, TERA
Tried: EQ2, Vanguard, Lord of the Rings Online, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Runes of Magic and countless others...
Currently Playing: GW2

Nytlok Sylas
80 Sylvari Ranger

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