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Mortal Online

Mortal Online 

General Discussion  » Peer to peer DL gave me keylogzorz

13 posts found
  itchmon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/21/07
Posts: 1614

 
OP  7/12/13 1:55:26 PM#1

a soon as i finished the mortal DL (i wanted to give it a try after having not liked it verymuch at launch and uninstalled) my email pings

 

"thanks for your 300$ paypal payment"

 

got on the phone and got the paypal folks to refund my cash (thank god they are very good at what they do) and between a computer guy friend of mine and myself traced the problem back to the mortal DL.

 

not saying "dont play it" just saying "dont use PtP to download it"

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  Sekkrah

Novice Member

Joined: 2/11/13
Posts: 12

7/12/13 3:27:37 PM#2
Originally posted by itchmon

a soon as i finished the mortal DL (i wanted to give it a try after having not liked it verymuch at launch and uninstalled) my email pings

 

"thanks for your 300$ paypal payment"

 

got on the phone and got the paypal folks to refund my cash (thank god they are very good at what they do) and between a computer guy friend of mine and myself traced the problem back to the mortal DL.

 

not saying "dont play it" just saying "dont use PtP to download it"

Your trace was wrong, and you just don't seem to understand how peer to peer works.  It's a torrent system, and a torrent system hashes every chunk it downloads.  It's literally impossible to download anything malicious from another user of the P2P system.  You cannot get modified files, only an exact copy of the original in the torrent.

Your problem came from somewhere else.

  Talonsin

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 7/19/06
Posts: 1187

7/16/13 9:46:34 PM#3
Originally posted by Sekkrah

Your trace was wrong, and you just don't seem to understand how peer to peer works.  It's a torrent system, and a torrent system hashes every chunk it downloads.  It's literally impossible to download anything malicious from another user of the P2P system.  You cannot get modified files, only an exact copy of the original in the torrent.

Your problem came from somewhere else.

I laughed so hard I think I hurt my spleen. 

  Burntvet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/16/07
Posts: 2800

7/23/13 12:14:08 PM#4
Originally posted by Talonsin
Originally posted by Sekkrah

Your trace was wrong, and you just don't seem to understand how peer to peer works.  It's a torrent system, and a torrent system hashes every chunk it downloads.  It's literally impossible to download anything malicious from another user of the P2P system.  You cannot get modified files, only an exact copy of the original in the torrent.

Your problem came from somewhere else.

I laughed so hard I think I hurt my spleen. 

 

Exactly so. Yeah... it's "impossible" to get malware from a PtP system.... unless.... the guy tags something on the end of the file you are torrenting... yeah, that's impossible. Not.
  onlinenow25

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/26/07
Posts: 282

7/23/13 12:17:32 PM#5
Originally posted by Sekkrah

Your trace was wrong, and you just don't seem to understand how peer to peer works.  It's a torrent system, and a torrent system hashes every chunk it downloads.  It's literally impossible to download anything malicious from another user of the P2P system.  You cannot get modified files, only an exact copy of the original in the torrent.

Your problem came from somewhere else.

Because old P2P programs and sites didn't give you viruses when you downloaded from the wrong person am I right?

 

O WAIT!

  Roguewiz

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/01/02
Posts: 569

When a Kender says "oops!"; its already too late.

7/23/13 12:20:52 PM#6
Peer-to-peer is about as safe as bungie jumping without a cable into a pit full of ravenous Lions.

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  User Deleted
7/23/13 12:25:03 PM#7
Must be special o.O I downloaded MO with PtP and have no issues... of course I also keep a firewall, anti-virus and malaware sniffer active and up to date but meh, the perks of actually knowing which end of the shotgun to hold.
  lizardbones

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10953

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

7/23/13 12:39:47 PM#8


Originally posted by Dihoru
Must be special o.O I downloaded MO with PtP and have no issues... of course I also keep a firewall, anti-virus and malaware sniffer active and up to date but meh, the perks of actually knowing which end of the shotgun to hold.


Riiight. You got a safe download, as far as you know, so it must mean that anyone who didn't get a safe download is somehow defective?

P2P is the new source for malware. It's easier to insert something into a P2P stream than it is to root a server and infect the files stored there. Client side, even with a virus scanner, if the code being inserted is new, i.e. not known to the the AV software, and the checksums check out, there's little indication that there's anything there until it actually executes. Even then it may not be noticeable for six months or longer. Otherwise I wouldn't get these notices from CERT about new malware because they would all be stopped at the firewalls, av scanners and malware sniffers of the world.

**

None of this means the OP's issue was related to MO, and it doesn't mean the OP didn't do something really dumb. Casual dismissal doesn't really allow for any sort of discussion to find out what really happened though.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  User Deleted
7/23/13 12:50:09 PM#9
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by Dihoru
Must be special o.O I downloaded MO with PtP and have no issues... of course I also keep a firewall, anti-virus and malaware sniffer active and up to date but meh, the perks of actually knowing which end of the shotgun to hold.



Riiight. You got a safe download, as far as you know, so it must mean that anyone who didn't get a safe download is somehow defective?

P2P is the new source for malware. It's easier to insert something into a P2P stream than it is to root a server and infect the files stored there. Client side, even with a virus scanner, if the code being inserted is new, i.e. not known to the the AV software, and the checksums check out, there's little indication that there's anything there until it actually executes. Even then it may not be noticeable for six months or longer. Otherwise I wouldn't get these notices from CERT about new malware because they would all be stopped at the firewalls, av scanners and malware sniffers of the world.

**

None of this means the OP's issue was related to MO, and it doesn't mean the OP didn't do something really dumb. Casual dismissal doesn't really allow for any sort of discussion to find out what really happened though.

 

Simple precautions prevent the majority of cyber based threats from affecting you and a watchful eye on your sensitive information with multiple passwords helps add another layer of security. That said if someone wanted to fuck you up they could do so easily (the P2P thing is actually old news, most torrents have filters in place to screen the flow of information for malicious code via comparison with stored code but these aren't failsafe either, most targeted attacks can't be stopped though but indiscriminate ones are quite easy to stop because the malicious code gets detected far quicker by the security software analysts and updates get put out, until that though erring on the side of caution is always better and having a competent firewall and antivirus is the first step but most people, believe it or not, at best have one or the other, not both).

  lizardbones

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10953

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

7/23/13 1:00:36 PM#10


Originally posted by Dihoru

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by Dihoru Must be special o.O I downloaded MO with PtP and have no issues... of course I also keep a firewall, anti-virus and malaware sniffer active and up to date but meh, the perks of actually knowing which end of the shotgun to hold.
Riiight. You got a safe download, as far as you know, so it must mean that anyone who didn't get a safe download is somehow defective? P2P is the new source for malware. It's easier to insert something into a P2P stream than it is to root a server and infect the files stored there. Client side, even with a virus scanner, if the code being inserted is new, i.e. not known to the the AV software, and the checksums check out, there's little indication that there's anything there until it actually executes. Even then it may not be noticeable for six months or longer. Otherwise I wouldn't get these notices from CERT about new malware because they would all be stopped at the firewalls, av scanners and malware sniffers of the world. ** None of this means the OP's issue was related to MO, and it doesn't mean the OP didn't do something really dumb. Casual dismissal doesn't really allow for any sort of discussion to find out what really happened though.  
Simple precautions prevent the majority of cyber based threats from affecting you and a watchful eye on your sensitive information with multiple passwords helps add another layer of security. That said if someone wanted to fuck you up they could do so easily (the P2P thing is actually old news, most torrents have filters in place to screen the flow of information for malicious code via comparison with stored code but these aren't failsafe either, most targeted attacks can't be stopped though but indiscriminate ones are quite easy to stop because the malicious code gets detected far quicker by the security software analysts and updates get put out, until that though erring on the side of caution is always better and having a competent firewall and antivirus is the first step but most people, believe it or not, at best have one or the other, not both).



Many people also run Javascript globally in their browsers bypassing their firewalls with stuff their AV has never heard of. The vast majority of users run Windows, no matter how many holes appear in it. What's your point in regards to the OP?

Dismissing the OP's post doesn't disprove anything they said. They could have a firewall, AV software and a "malware sniffer", and still get something from a download. That's the wonderful joy of having an internet connection.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  onlinenow25

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/26/07
Posts: 282

7/23/13 1:07:23 PM#11
Originally posted by Dihoru

 Simple precautions prevent the majority of cyber based threats from affecting you and a watchful eye on your sensitive information with multiple passwords helps add another layer of security. That said if someone wanted to fuck you up they could do so easily (the P2P thing is actually old news, most torrents have filters in place to screen the flow of information for malicious code via comparison with stored code but these aren't failsafe either, most targeted attacks can't be stopped though but indiscriminate ones are quite easy to stop because the malicious code gets detected far quicker by the security software analysts and updates get put out, until that though erring on the side of caution is always better and having a competent firewall and antivirus is the first step but most people, believe it or not, at best have one or the other, not both).

You act as if with proper defenses you will never get a virus or mal-ware or back doored.  

News flash if its on the internet it can be hacked. 

Nothing is safe on the internet.

 

  Sekkrah

Novice Member

Joined: 2/11/13
Posts: 12

7/26/13 10:37:47 AM#12

I don't mean this to sound offensive or anything, but you guys saying that P2P is the source of malware are confused and don't understand the actual technicalities of the system.

  1. It IS impossible for any user to inject malware into a torrent download if it wasn't already in the source torrent file to begin with.  This is because every chunk of the file is "hash checked" before being downloaded from any source.  If the person has modified their file then other clients will not download that chunk because it won't match the hash check.
  2. Malware exists in torrents for sure, but only when the torrent was created that way from the start.  If the torrent was generated from clean files, those files will be exactly the same when you download it no matter who you download it from.
Torrents are actually very amazingly designed.  They are completely safe as long as the torrent creator is trustworthy.
  Tygranir

Novice Member

Joined: 6/24/13
Posts: 765

7/26/13 10:50:52 AM#13
Originally posted by Sekkrah

I don't mean this to sound offensive or anything, but you guys saying that P2P is the source of malware are confused and don't understand the actual technicalities of the system.

  1. It IS impossible for any user to inject malware into a torrent download if it wasn't already in the source torrent file to begin with.  This is because every chunk of the file is "hash checked" before being downloaded from any source.  If the person has modified their file then other clients will not download that chunk because it won't match the hash check.
  2. Malware exists in torrents for sure, but only when the torrent was created that way from the start.  If the torrent was generated from clean files, those files will be exactly the same when you download it no matter who you download it from.
Torrents are actually very amazingly designed.  They are completely safe as long as the torrent creator is trustworthy.

The gentleman is correct. Torrent systems, especially with P2P transfers, work on file identity. Files must be identical in order for them to be shared. If a file is altered in any way, it is a completely different file. The only way to get maleware from P2P is if every user sharing has the exact same maleware.

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