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EverQuest Next

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General Discussion  » The SOE Live panels were updated - Panels include: classes, lore, the world, Q & A

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92 posts found
  Waterlily

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/26/08
Posts: 2885

7/11/13 8:52:47 AM#41
Originally posted by evilastro

Yes, pretty much every game that has raids is a themepark.

I see, Darkfall is a themepark then. Shut up will you.

  User Deleted
7/11/13 8:53:53 AM#42
Originally posted by Waterlily
Originally posted by evilastro

Yes, pretty much every game that has raids is a themepark.

I see, Darkfall is a themepark then. Shut up will you.

Darkfall is a themepark.... Just one with OW PvP...

Seriously, you have no clue.

  Iadien

Novice Member

Joined: 2/12/04
Posts: 646

 
OP  7/11/13 8:54:21 AM#43
Originally posted by hMJem

To the fellow (and others) clamoring for old school locked in classes: Prepare for the disappoint

 

Dave Georgeson: "I agree with Chris. Let's say I have a character that I really, really like. And I've named him and I wrote a background for him and I figured out what he looks like and I've created his house and all this other stuff. I don't feel like I should have to be relegated to a single class. I don't feel like that that's a restriction that needs to happen. And I do believe that there are ways to balance the game to be able to let you have more choice. Because ultimately this is a role playing game and you should be able to play the role that you want to play. Without necessarily having to recreate another character. My opinion. And I think that there's a lot of ways we can go down those paths so that they are really interesting and very cool for the players. And we will be pushing that a lot farther."

Chris:"In EQNext."

Dave: "In EQ Next."

That may just mean that we can switch to different classes, because Smed mentioned druids in a interview. http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/10/20/soe-live-2012-john-smedley-on-eq-next-and-soes-future/

Originally posted by Waterlily
Originally posted by evilastro

I did play it. It had very clear raid progression. Themepark.

So a game that has raids is now a themepark? Many of the raid mobs were open world raids.

So I guess EVE is a total themepark since it has completely linear ship and skill progression.

Give me a break.

EQ is considered a themepark, it's obviously not like WoW, but there is a linear progression. There are very few real sandbox mmos. http://sandboxt.net/sandboxt/page/SandboxMMOGamesList
  User Deleted
7/11/13 8:55:31 AM#44
Originally posted by Iadien
Originally posted by Waterlily
Originally posted by evilastro

I did play it. It had very clear raid progression. Themepark.

So a game that has raids is now a themepark? Many of the raid mobs were open world raids.

So I guess EVE is a total themepark since it has completely linear ship and skill progression.

Give me a break.

EQ is considered a themepark, it's obviously not like WoW, but there is a linear progression. There are very few real sandbox mmos. http://sandboxt.net/sandboxt/page/SandboxMMOGamesList

Thank god, someone with a brain.

  Waterlily

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/26/08
Posts: 2885

7/11/13 8:55:36 AM#45
Originally posted by Iadien
 there is a linear progression

Are you saying EVE doesn't have linear progression? Because everything about EVE progression is linear.

  Iadien

Novice Member

Joined: 2/12/04
Posts: 646

 
OP  7/11/13 8:56:33 AM#46
Originally posted by Waterlily
Originally posted by Iadien
 there is a linear progression

Are you saying EVE doesn't have linear progression? Because everything about EVE progression is linear.

I have never played eve, I have no idea. lol

  Waterlily

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/26/08
Posts: 2885

7/11/13 8:57:29 AM#47
Originally posted by Iadien
Originally posted by Waterlily
Originally posted by Iadien
 there is a linear progression

Are you saying EVE doesn't have linear progression? Because everything about EVE progression is linear.

I have never played eve, I have no idea. lol

Well, name me an MMO without linear progression then.

  hMJem

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 468

7/11/13 8:58:56 AM#48

I dont get it, what do Druids have to do with anything? Even in FireFall and FFXIV with games doing similar type systems there are classes. You just arent locked into them

 

You didnt seriously think it'd be a system where you're classless the whole game and just pick what you want as you level/skill up and it combines into your own super class did you?

  quseio

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/18/07
Posts: 222

7/11/13 9:08:27 AM#49
just say no to multi classing it just aint eq , subclasss maaaybe it probably just means you can switch to different classes  not that u can be a bit of everything at once its more like my mage  is also my alt druid at the same time i just have to probably switch gear and then i cant use my mage  powers while useing druid
  User Deleted
7/11/13 9:09:16 AM#50
Originally posted by Waterlily
Originally posted by Iadien
Originally posted by Waterlily
Originally posted by Iadien
 there is a linear progression

Are you saying EVE doesn't have linear progression? Because everything about EVE progression is linear.

I have never played eve, I have no idea. lol

Well, name me an MMO without linear progression then.

Entropia Universe

  Waterlily

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/26/08
Posts: 2885

7/11/13 9:18:11 AM#51
Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by Waterlily
Originally posted by Iadien
Originally posted by Waterlily
Originally posted by Iadien
 there is a linear progression

Are you saying EVE doesn't have linear progression? Because everything about EVE progression is linear.

I have never played eve, I have no idea. lol

Well, name me an MMO without linear progression then.

Entropia Universe

It has linear skill progression locked behind level progression.

Even EQ didn't do this, many of the skills weren't locked behind level progress.

Try again.

  Allein

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/13
Posts: 885

7/11/13 9:35:05 AM#52
Originally posted by Waterlily
Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by Waterlily
Originally posted by Iadien
Originally posted by Waterlily
Originally posted by Iadien
 there is a linear progression

Are you saying EVE doesn't have linear progression? Because everything about EVE progression is linear.

I have never played eve, I have no idea. lol

Well, name me an MMO without linear progression then.

Entropia Universe

It has linear skill progression locked behind level progression.

Even EQ didn't do this, many of the skills weren't locked behind level progress.

Try again.

If EQ isn't a themepark, what is it?

I think this argument is silly since both of you have different definitions of sandbox/themepark, but if there was some magical scale, I'd put EQ closer to themepark side then sandbox. Does a mmo have to be one or the other or can it just be its own thing? People love slapping labels on everything and all the good/bad that come along with these titles.

Themeparks are still good games, some people just slap the title on a game and dismiss it as trash. There are really good themeparks and really bad sandboxes.

Every game has to have some sort of point or progression. Be it building in Minecraft, going from quest hub to quest hub in WoW, or getting lost in the woods at level one in EQ. The point is hopefully to have fun and make something of yourself.

I think the only true Sandbox is what the devs have to play with. Once they lay down the foundation and set even minor limits on what players can/can't do, we lose control.

I'm hoping EQN isn't a "true" sandbox and more of just an open world adventure that allows a lot of player interaction with the environment and each other.

  quseio

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/18/07
Posts: 222

7/11/13 9:39:42 AM#53
Originally posted by Waterlily
Originally posted by muffins89
i already don't like that there's a "story".   let us make our own for once. 

A game without a story isn't a game, you end up with something like Minecraft.

You need a minimum of lore to have any meanginful adventure.

 

i dislike the term sandbox everyones v ision is different on what it is

some say as long as i can do what i want kill that guild master or rob that npoc and lvl in  many different places, if you do look at it that way eq was a  sandbox yea sure you couldnt build anything

for some  sandbox means building houses  cities and forts

 

to to others as long ads you can affect the world its a sandbox

eq was a sandbox in that the community affected you and you it and you could be hated or loved by npcs

I think a new term is needed cal it a toolbox toolbox means you can create stuff like houses or forts and  destroy stuff or 

In short toolbox = build stuff

warbox  affect the world say you kill lots of gnolls  for a while they might die out  for a bit and be replaced by....  elementals

  User Deleted
7/11/13 9:48:59 AM#54
Originally posted by Waterlily
Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by Waterlily
Originally posted by Iadien
Originally posted by Waterlily
Originally posted by Iadien
 there is a linear progression

Are you saying EVE doesn't have linear progression? Because everything about EVE progression is linear.

I have never played eve, I have no idea. lol

Well, name me an MMO without linear progression then.

Entropia Universe

It has linear skill progression locked behind level progression.

Even EQ didn't do this, many of the skills weren't locked behind level progress.

Try again.

You are confusing progression with skill systems.

In EQ you kill mobs in Highpass Hold, then when you outlevel it you move to Highkeep, then Jaggedpine Forest and so on. Its linear. Then when you get to endgame you do one raid, then when you gear up on that, you move to the next one. Having a big world does not make it a sandbox in any way shape or form.

Sandbox literally means player made content in that the player has tools to modify the world themselves and create how they play.

  baphamet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/05/06
Posts: 2639

110100100

7/11/13 10:02:27 AM#55


Originally posted by evilastro

Originally posted by Waterlily

Originally posted by evilastro

Originally posted by Waterlily

Originally posted by Iadien

Originally posted by Waterlily

Originally posted by Iadien  there is a linear progression
Are you saying EVE doesn't have linear progression? Because everything about EVE progression is linear.
I have never played eve, I have no idea. lol
Well, name me an MMO without linear progression then.
Entropia Universe
It has linear skill progression locked behind level progression. Even EQ didn't do this, many of the skills weren't locked behind level progress. Try again.
You are confusing progression with skill systems.

In EQ you kill mobs in Highpass Hold, then when you outlevel it you move to Highkeep, then Jaggedpine Forest and so on. Its linear. Then when you get to endgame you do one raid, then when you gear up on that, you move to the next one. Having a big world does not make it a sandbox in any way shape or form.

Sandbox literally means player made content in that the player has tools to modify the world themselves and create how they play.


you are 100% correct and its odd so many supposed mmo vets just don't understand this concept.

just think about what the word sandbox means, what do kids do in a sandbox and why is that term used in mmo's?

kids build and destroy things made out of sand in their irl sandbox, players build and destroy things in their mmo "sandbox".

that is the core feature that is necessary to be considered a sandbox mmo. for some reason many many people attribute freedom and choice to being sandbox, there are many themepark games that have a lot of choice and freedom as well, that does not make them sandbox games.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17132

7/11/13 10:09:30 AM#56
Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by Waterlily
Originally posted by evilastro

I did play it. It had very clear raid progression. Themepark.

So a game that has raids is now a themepark? Many of the raid mobs were open world raids.

So I guess EVE is a total themepark since it has completely linear ship and skill progression.

Give me a break.

Yes, pretty much every game that has raids is a themepark.

 

This part isn't true.

You are conflating two  different things: The Raid itself which is an encounter (doesn't have to be in an instance) which requires a set group to win and the systems behind the rewards when a group wins.

If there is a raid, let's say open world, and the raiding group got special materials that they could then craft into unique, hard to get items, which could be excellent items but degrade over time, then that would easily fit into a sandbox environment.

What makes a raid a "themepark" raid is having it be part of a set gear progression where people line up, toss the ring and win a prize".

  Iadien

Novice Member

Joined: 2/12/04
Posts: 646

 
OP  7/11/13 10:13:34 AM#57
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by Waterlily
Originally posted by evilastro

I did play it. It had very clear raid progression. Themepark.

So a game that has raids is now a themepark? Many of the raid mobs were open world raids.

So I guess EVE is a total themepark since it has completely linear ship and skill progression.

Give me a break.

Yes, pretty much every game that has raids is a themepark.

 

This part isn't true.

You are conflating two  different things: The Raid itself which is an encounter (doesn't have to be in an instance) which requires a set group to win and the systems behind the rewards when a group wins.

If there is a raid, let's say open world, and the raiding group got special materials that they could then craft into unique, hard to get items, which could be excellent items but degrade over time, then that would easily fit into a sandbox environment.

What makes a raid a "themepark" raid is having it be part of a set gear progression where people line up, toss the ring and win a prize".

such as: http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/10/20/soe-live-2012-john-smedley-on-eq-next-and-soes-future/

At GDC last week, you also talked about how quickly traditional MMO content is consumed and how that plays into your decision to adopt a philosophy toward emergent gameplay. The question comes up about how that affects the future of raid content -- something that takes a lot of time to design and is usually played by only a portion of the community. What are your thoughts on that?

We absolutely need to build that style of content into every game we make because players want that. We're not talking about the end of raids, the end of this incredibly high-level content. We're talking about changing the nature of the world around it so that there's a lot more to do "in between" expansions. But imagine the entire world as part of the interaction. Imagine seasons changing. Imagine if you're a Druid and you need to literally seek out reagents for your spells or worship your deity in a glade somewhere off in the wilderness, but you don't know where. Or image forests growing back after they're burned to the ground by invading forces. What we want is a dynamic world that gives all those other possibilities and doesn't just say OK, go to raid X with group composition of X, Y, Z, and kill the dragon for the 52nd time to get the tier 800 gear. It's this rinse-and-repeat gameplay that's got to change, and so we're changing it.

  keenber

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/10/07
Posts: 437

7/11/13 10:16:14 AM#58
EQ is without doubt a theampark with very little sandbox elements. Try wurm online if you want to see what a true sandbox is.
  baphamet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/05/06
Posts: 2639

110100100

7/11/13 10:19:19 AM#59


Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by evilastro

Originally posted by Waterlily

Originally posted by evilastro I did play it. It had very clear raid progression. Themepark.
So a game that has raids is now a themepark? Many of the raid mobs were open world raids. So I guess EVE is a total themepark since it has completely linear ship and skill progression. Give me a break.
Yes, pretty much every game that has raids is a themepark.  
This part isn't true.

You are conflating two  different things: The Raid itself which is an encounter (doesn't have to be in an instance) which requires a set group to win and the systems behind the rewards when a group wins.

If there is a raid, let's say open world, and the raiding group got special materials that they could then craft into unique, hard to get items, which could be excellent items but degrade over time, then that would easily fit into a sandbox environment.

What makes a raid a "themepark" raid is having it be part of a set gear progression where people line up, toss the ring and win a prize".


agreed, i just think people are so used to the current raid progression model that most games have that its hard to think that there could be a different way to do it.

  Waterlily

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/26/08
Posts: 2885

7/11/13 10:19:40 AM#60
Originally posted by evilastro

 

In EQ you kill mobs in Highpass Hold, then when you outlevel it you move to Highkeep, then Jaggedpine Forest and so on.

Actually, you could choose where you went. You didn't go from one zone to the next, you often travelled to very different zones.

Not one person in EQ has ever leveled in the same manner.

And again, by your definition, EVE and Darkfall are themeparks.

The fact is that you've now used multiple definitions to describe themeparks and sandboxes, and have changed your opinion several times and now you're using games like Entropia to keep your definition from going under. No one seems to have a definite answer of what is a sandbox and what is a themepark.

Some people say a game can't be a sandbox without PVP.

Some people say a game can't be a sandbox without destructible terrain.

Some people say a game can't be a sandbox without everything being tradable and craftable.

Some people say a game can't be a sandbox if it has a story behind it.

Well then, I guess not a single game is a sandbox then.

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