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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » PVP vs PVE, Themepark VS Sandbox. Let the polls decide!

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111 posts found
  Dihoru

Elite Member

Joined: 1/11/06
Posts: 2623

7/11/13 10:36:17 AM#81
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
Originally posted by Xssiv
If a sandbox typically relies on player driven content, what would players do in a PvE sandbox?  

 PvPers confuse the term sandbox with having anything at all to do with PvP. PvP is an option in either a theme park of a sandbox, it doesn't define either of them.

A sandbox is defined by players having tools to create their own fun/world. So players could build houses, maybe even whole towns. Players could create quests for other players. They could have true freedom in designing/crafting weapons and armors. They could change the actual landscape of the world, etc. etc.

You could put PvP into any of that, or you could leave it out. PvP is irrelevant to the term sandbox.

Hear hear

Go back to spooning your tauren love pillow dude, sandboxes give people tools to influence the environment and other people are part of the environment, a sandbox which has PVP is superior to one which does not because it has another set of tools for the player to use.

  Xssiv

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/18/10
Posts: 308

7/11/13 10:37:03 AM#82
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
Originally posted by Xssiv
If a sandbox typically relies on player driven content, what would players do in a PvE sandbox?  

 PvPers confuse the term sandbox with having anything at all to do with PvP. PvP is an option in either a theme park of a sandbox, it doesn't define either of them.

A sandbox is defined by players having tools to create their own fun/world. So players could build houses, maybe even whole towns. Players could create quests for other players. They could have true freedom in designing/crafting weapons and armors. They could change the actual landscape of the world, etc. etc.

You could put PvP into any of that, or you could leave it out. PvP is irrelevant to the term sandbox.

You make some good points.  My caveman brain can't grasp the idea of not having ongoing conflict as a driving force in a game.  

PvE seems to require to much reliance on the developers to drive that conflict which kinda takes it out of the sandbox category in my opinion.

I'm guessing that Second Life would be a good example of a PvE sandbox, although I haven't played it so I can't say for sure. 

  VengeSunsoar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4689

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

7/11/13 10:38:40 AM#83
Originally posted by Dihoru
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
Originally posted by Xssiv
If a sandbox typically relies on player driven content, what would players do in a PvE sandbox?  

 PvPers confuse the term sandbox with having anything at all to do with PvP. PvP is an option in either a theme park of a sandbox, it doesn't define either of them.

A sandbox is defined by players having tools to create their own fun/world. So players could build houses, maybe even whole towns. Players could create quests for other players. They could have true freedom in designing/crafting weapons and armors. They could change the actual landscape of the world, etc. etc.

You could put PvP into any of that, or you could leave it out. PvP is irrelevant to the term sandbox.

Hear hear

Go back to spooning your tauren love pillow dude, sandboxes give people tools to influence the environment and other people are part of the environment, a sandbox which has PVP is superior to one which does not because it has another set of tools for the player to use.

I disagree, in the case of pvp and sandbox, IMO those extra tools make the game less fun and actually end up limiting/inhibiting the player more than if the pvp tools never existed. 

Just like in RL - we give up certain freedoms in order to actually be able to use more effectively and freely the freedoms we have.  

Sure in  sandbox having the ability to destory other people's efforts and kill them whenever I want seems like more freedom.  But when it is done I've limited that persons ability to do the things they want to to.  It takes away freedom.

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  Dihoru

Elite Member

Joined: 1/11/06
Posts: 2623

7/11/13 10:44:10 AM#84
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Dihoru
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
Originally posted by Xssiv
If a sandbox typically relies on player driven content, what would players do in a PvE sandbox?  

 PvPers confuse the term sandbox with having anything at all to do with PvP. PvP is an option in either a theme park of a sandbox, it doesn't define either of them.

A sandbox is defined by players having tools to create their own fun/world. So players could build houses, maybe even whole towns. Players could create quests for other players. They could have true freedom in designing/crafting weapons and armors. They could change the actual landscape of the world, etc. etc.

You could put PvP into any of that, or you could leave it out. PvP is irrelevant to the term sandbox.

Hear hear

Go back to spooning your tauren love pillow dude, sandboxes give people tools to influence the environment and other people are part of the environment, a sandbox which has PVP is superior to one which does not because it has another set of tools for the player to use.

I disagree, in the case of pvp and sandbox, IMO those extra tools make the game less fun and actually end up limiting/inhibiting the player more than if the pvp tools never existed. 

And I disagree because without player conflict these sort of events:

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Great_War

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Second_Great_War

http://www.mmo-stories.org/Stories/the_disbanding_of_band_of_brothers/

The ongoing war in Fountain

etc,etc.

These are non-scripted, emergent events born of conflict which had many effects on the game which were never foreseen by the developers. Compared to this all the events in all the themeparks and sandbox PVE mmos I've played in pale completely.

  VengeSunsoar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4689

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

7/11/13 10:47:27 AM#85
Originally posted by Dihoru
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Dihoru
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
Originally posted by Xssiv
If a sandbox typically relies on player driven content, what would players do in a PvE sandbox?  

 PvPers confuse the term sandbox with having anything at all to do with PvP. PvP is an option in either a theme park of a sandbox, it doesn't define either of them.

A sandbox is defined by players having tools to create their own fun/world. So players could build houses, maybe even whole towns. Players could create quests for other players. They could have true freedom in designing/crafting weapons and armors. They could change the actual landscape of the world, etc. etc.

You could put PvP into any of that, or you could leave it out. PvP is irrelevant to the term sandbox.

Hear hear

Go back to spooning your tauren love pillow dude, sandboxes give people tools to influence the environment and other people are part of the environment, a sandbox which has PVP is superior to one which does not because it has another set of tools for the player to use.

I disagree, in the case of pvp and sandbox, IMO those extra tools make the game less fun and actually end up limiting/inhibiting the player more than if the pvp tools never existed. 

And I disagree because without player conflict these sort of events:

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Great_War

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Second_Great_War

http://www.mmo-stories.org/Stories/the_disbanding_of_band_of_brothers/

The ongoing war in Fountain

etc,etc.

These are non-scripted, emergent events born of conflict which had many effects on the game which were never foreseen by the developers. Compared to this all the events in all the themeparks and sandbox PVE mmos I've played in pale completely.

Thats fine.  You like those things.  I don't thing those stories are really very interesting, to me they are a passing comment.

edit - I'd be more interested in the guy in minecraft building that game of thrones city.  Or developing a quest in Istaria using the hedge maze that someone else built, or participating in an event that brings in a new dungeon or new race.  Those are far more interesting to me.

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2605

There... are... four... lights!

7/11/13 10:47:28 AM#86
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Sure in  sandbox having the ability to destory other people's efforts and kill them whenever I want seems like more freedom.  But when it is done I've limited that persons ability to do the things they want to to.  It takes away freedom.

"In the exercise of his rights and freedoms, everyone shall be subject only to such limitations as are determined by law solely for the purpose of securing due recognition and respect for the rights and freedoms of others and of meeting the just requirements of morality, public order and the general welfare in a democratic society."

Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 29 Paragraph 2.

TLDR version: there's no freedom without restrictions that ensure other people's freedom as well as your own. Anarchy is NOT and has never been freedom. And FFA PvP without strong restrictions and consequences for mindless killing is anarchy, not freedom.

Playing now: Archeage, WoW, Landmark, GW2

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  Dihoru

Elite Member

Joined: 1/11/06
Posts: 2623

7/11/13 10:52:25 AM#87
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Dihoru
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Dihoru
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
Originally posted by Xssiv
If a sandbox typically relies on player driven content, what would players do in a PvE sandbox?  

 PvPers confuse the term sandbox with having anything at all to do with PvP. PvP is an option in either a theme park of a sandbox, it doesn't define either of them.

A sandbox is defined by players having tools to create their own fun/world. So players could build houses, maybe even whole towns. Players could create quests for other players. They could have true freedom in designing/crafting weapons and armors. They could change the actual landscape of the world, etc. etc.

You could put PvP into any of that, or you could leave it out. PvP is irrelevant to the term sandbox.

Hear hear

Go back to spooning your tauren love pillow dude, sandboxes give people tools to influence the environment and other people are part of the environment, a sandbox which has PVP is superior to one which does not because it has another set of tools for the player to use.

I disagree, in the case of pvp and sandbox, IMO those extra tools make the game less fun and actually end up limiting/inhibiting the player more than if the pvp tools never existed. 

And I disagree because without player conflict these sort of events:

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Great_War

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Second_Great_War

http://www.mmo-stories.org/Stories/the_disbanding_of_band_of_brothers/

The ongoing war in Fountain

etc,etc.

These are non-scripted, emergent events born of conflict which had many effects on the game which were never foreseen by the developers. Compared to this all the events in all the themeparks and sandbox PVE mmos I've played in pale completely.

Thats fine.  You like those things.  I don't thing those stories are really very interesting, to me they are a passing comment.

And for me to see people so inertia bound in their own ideas is both amusing and tragic. There are and there will be more PVE sandbox MMOs born but at the rates of demand (which believe it or not are low as Hell for a reason) so stop pushing for more of them because I have no doubt you'll be among the first to want it to become more themepark-like (PVE sandboxes are dull places, it takes allot more to get the ball rolling than in PVP sandboxes because well... not allot of people get easily motivated to go out and poke wild animals...but gank one of their friends and you get a Asakai level event).

  VengeSunsoar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4689

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

7/11/13 10:55:53 AM#88
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Sure in  sandbox having the ability to destory other people's efforts and kill them whenever I want seems like more freedom.  But when it is done I've limited that persons ability to do the things they want to to.  It takes away freedom.

"In the exercise of his rights and freedoms, everyone shall be subject only to such limitations as are determined by law solely for the purpose of securing due recognition and respect for the rights and freedoms of others and of meeting the just requirements of morality, public order and the general welfare in a democratic society."

Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 29 Paragraph 2.

TLDR version: there's no freedom without restrictions that ensure other people's freedom as well as your own. Anarchy is NOT and has never been freedom. And FFA PvP without strong restrictions and consequences for mindless killing is anarchy, not freedom.

Agreed.

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  SnarlingWolf

Novice Member

Joined: 6/23/09
Posts: 2728

7/11/13 10:57:47 AM#89
Originally posted by Dihoru
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Thats fine.  You like those things.  I don't thing those stories are really very interesting, to me they are a passing comment.

And to me to see people so inertia bound in their own ideas is both amusing and tragic.

 You don't see the flaw in that response?

Yelling at people for being so bound to their ideas that they refuse to try it another way as you fill thread after thread with attacks and insults to anyone who doesn't want open world PvP in their games because the only way a game should exist in your mind if with open world PvP?

That is interesting really to insinuate the same thing you're doing is wrong for someone else to do when it doesn't align with your idea. Even as the other person says it is fine for you to like such things you return with "Well it isn't ok for you to like other things".

  VengeSunsoar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4689

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

7/11/13 10:58:11 AM#90
Originally posted by Dihoru
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Dihoru
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Dihoru
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
Originally posted by Xssiv
If a sandbox typically relies on player driven content, what would players do in a PvE sandbox?  

 PvPers confuse the term sandbox with having anything at all to do with PvP. PvP is an option in either a theme park of a sandbox, it doesn't define either of them.

A sandbox is defined by players having tools to create their own fun/world. So players could build houses, maybe even whole towns. Players could create quests for other players. They could have true freedom in designing/crafting weapons and armors. They could change the actual landscape of the world, etc. etc.

You could put PvP into any of that, or you could leave it out. PvP is irrelevant to the term sandbox.

Hear hear

Go back to spooning your tauren love pillow dude, sandboxes give people tools to influence the environment and other people are part of the environment, a sandbox which has PVP is superior to one which does not because it has another set of tools for the player to use.

I disagree, in the case of pvp and sandbox, IMO those extra tools make the game less fun and actually end up limiting/inhibiting the player more than if the pvp tools never existed. 

And I disagree because without player conflict these sort of events:

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Great_War

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Second_Great_War

http://www.mmo-stories.org/Stories/the_disbanding_of_band_of_brothers/

The ongoing war in Fountain

etc,etc.

These are non-scripted, emergent events born of conflict which had many effects on the game which were never foreseen by the developers. Compared to this all the events in all the themeparks and sandbox PVE mmos I've played in pale completely.

Thats fine.  You like those things.  I don't thing those stories are really very interesting, to me they are a passing comment.

And for me to see people so inertia bound in their own ideas is both amusing and tragic. There are and there will be more PVE sandbox MMOs born but at the rates of demand (which believe it or not are low as Hell for a reason) so stop pushing for more of them because I have no doubt you'll be among the first to want it to become more themepark-like (PVE sandboxes are dull places, it takes allot more to get the ball rolling than in PVP sandboxes because well... not allot of people get easily motivated to go out and poke wild animals...but gank one of their friends and you get a Asakai level event).

Inertia bound in their own ideas.  Interesting.  Pot meet kettle.

Actually there are far more pvp sandbox mmos than pve.  So yes I will continue to push for more pve sandbox.

Almost all sandbox are low, that has nothing to do with pvp or pve, it just bad development and marketing

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  Dihoru

Elite Member

Joined: 1/11/06
Posts: 2623

7/11/13 11:25:01 AM#91
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Dihoru
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Dihoru
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Dihoru
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
Originally posted by Xssiv
If a sandbox typically relies on player driven content, what would players do in a PvE sandbox?  

 PvPers confuse the term sandbox with having anything at all to do with PvP. PvP is an option in either a theme park of a sandbox, it doesn't define either of them.

A sandbox is defined by players having tools to create their own fun/world. So players could build houses, maybe even whole towns. Players could create quests for other players. They could have true freedom in designing/crafting weapons and armors. They could change the actual landscape of the world, etc. etc.

You could put PvP into any of that, or you could leave it out. PvP is irrelevant to the term sandbox.

Hear hear

Go back to spooning your tauren love pillow dude, sandboxes give people tools to influence the environment and other people are part of the environment, a sandbox which has PVP is superior to one which does not because it has another set of tools for the player to use.

I disagree, in the case of pvp and sandbox, IMO those extra tools make the game less fun and actually end up limiting/inhibiting the player more than if the pvp tools never existed. 

And I disagree because without player conflict these sort of events:

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Great_War

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Second_Great_War

http://www.mmo-stories.org/Stories/the_disbanding_of_band_of_brothers/

The ongoing war in Fountain

etc,etc.

These are non-scripted, emergent events born of conflict which had many effects on the game which were never foreseen by the developers. Compared to this all the events in all the themeparks and sandbox PVE mmos I've played in pale completely.

Thats fine.  You like those things.  I don't thing those stories are really very interesting, to me they are a passing comment.

And for me to see people so inertia bound in their own ideas is both amusing and tragic. There are and there will be more PVE sandbox MMOs born but at the rates of demand (which believe it or not are low as Hell for a reason) so stop pushing for more of them because I have no doubt you'll be among the first to want it to become more themepark-like (PVE sandboxes are dull places, it takes allot more to get the ball rolling than in PVP sandboxes because well... not allot of people get easily motivated to go out and poke wild animals...but gank one of their friends and you get a Asakai level event).

Inertia bound in their own ideas.  Interesting.  Pot meet kettle.

Actually actually there are far more pvp sandbox mmos than pve.  So yes I will continue to push for more pve sandbox.

Almost all sandbox are low, that has nothing to do with pvp or pve, it just bad development and marketing

Actually ... if you take lists of games which are considered MMO sandboxes you'll see a grand total of 5 maybe 6 which are Open World PVP regardless of server ( EVE-Online which only has one server, Salem, Perpetuum, I heard it was OW PVP so I count it, Darkfall, Archeage and if you're feeling really loose with the definition of sandbox: Age of Wushu/Wulin).

In contrast: Wurm Online has split servers (PVE and PVP), The Repopulation recently announced it would have servers with different rulesets (which include both PVE and PVP but also if memory serves also differences in death penalties), Embers of Caerus (isn't yet announced but rumor has it it'll likely also be server rulesets or instanced siege events without open world PVP zones), Ryzom, A tale in the desert, Minecraft (which counts as an MMO because there are at least 2 mods which add in what is lacking from the game to be an MMO and servers can be PVE or PVP), Origins of Malu (which seems to have faction based warfare only), etc.

 

The only two games which have steadfastly stated that they will have Open World PVP which are in development now (active) is Albion Online and Eternal Crusade, every other sandbox I can think of is still iffy (Gloria Victis, Edengrad,etc).

 

 

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19156

7/11/13 11:29:15 AM#92
Originally posted by Dihoru
 

And I disagree because without player conflict these sort of events:

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Great_War

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Second_Great_War

http://www.mmo-stories.org/Stories/the_disbanding_of_band_of_brothers/

The ongoing war in Fountain

etc,etc.

These are non-scripted, emergent events born of conflict which had many effects on the game which were never foreseen by the developers. Compared to this all the events in all the themeparks and sandbox PVE mmos I've played in pale completely.

None of those events read very interesting. It is just A want to fight B, and they lose and go to area C ....

Any professional script beat them.

Now it is your prerogative to like them. But i don't.

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2605

There... are... four... lights!

7/11/13 11:29:31 AM#93

Gotta love how Minecraft suddenly "counts as a MMO" when it serves someone's argument.

My avatar picture once again applies...

Playing now: Archeage, WoW, Landmark, GW2

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  Dihoru

Elite Member

Joined: 1/11/06
Posts: 2623

7/11/13 11:42:47 AM#94
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

Gotta love how Minecraft suddenly "counts as a MMO" when it serves someone's argument.

My avatar picture once again applies...

You doubt the power of mods? ^^

http://www.europeinruins.com/ that's what people did without a massive world readily accessible via a server, how much do you wanna bet the infinitely more moddable Minecraft has something like well...  http://dev.bukkit.org/bukkit-plugins/mcmmo/ .

 

Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Dihoru
 

And I disagree because without player conflict these sort of events:

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Great_War

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Second_Great_War

http://www.mmo-stories.org/Stories/the_disbanding_of_band_of_brothers/

The ongoing war in Fountain

etc,etc.

These are non-scripted, emergent events born of conflict which had many effects on the game which were never foreseen by the developers. Compared to this all the events in all the themeparks and sandbox PVE mmos I've played in pale completely.

None of those events read very interesting. It is just A want to fight B, and they lose and go to area C ....

Any professional script beat them.

Now it is your prerogative to like them. But i don't.

And I am sure collecting x amount of something to open the gate to kill <insert name of expansion's latest baddie> is far more thrilling.

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2605

There... are... four... lights!

7/11/13 11:52:11 AM#95
Originally posted by Dihoru
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

Gotta love how Minecraft suddenly "counts as a MMO" when it serves someone's argument.

My avatar picture once again applies...

You doubt the power of mods? ^^

http://www.europeinruins.com/ that's what people did without a massive world readily accessible via a server, how much do you wanna bet the infinitely more moddable Minecraft has something like well...  http://dev.bukkit.org/bukkit-plugins/mcmmo/ .

No I do not, I tried many of those minecraft worlds and I love the game.

None of those pseudo MMOs are MMOs. They lack the "massively" factor. The server/client architecture just isn't adapted. It's the same than people who made persistent worlds with NWN. Being persistent is not enough to be a MMO.

Yeah, you can turn Minecraft and NWN into multiplayer online worlds. But definitely not massive. Unless you agree that running your own Quake 3 Arena server is running a MMO.

Playing now: Archeage, WoW, Landmark, GW2

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  Dihoru

Elite Member

Joined: 1/11/06
Posts: 2623

7/11/13 11:56:10 AM#96
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by Dihoru
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

Gotta love how Minecraft suddenly "counts as a MMO" when it serves someone's argument.

My avatar picture once again applies...

You doubt the power of mods? ^^

http://www.europeinruins.com/ that's what people did without a massive world readily accessible via a server, how much do you wanna bet the infinitely more moddable Minecraft has something like well...  http://dev.bukkit.org/bukkit-plugins/mcmmo/ .

No I do not, I tried many of those minecraft worlds and I love the game.

None of those pseudo MMOs are MMOs. They lack the "massively" factor. The server/client architecture just isn't adapted. It's the same than people who made persistent worlds with NWN. Being persistent is not enough to be a MMO.

Yeah, you can turn Minecraft and NWN into multiplayer online worlds. But definitely not massive. Unless you agree that running your own Quake 3 Arena server is running a MMO.

The massively factor comes into play with amount of players by your own words in which case quite a few actual MMOs aren't MMOs because of lack of players, otherwise you can't say this

Is not a massive world.

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2605

There... are... four... lights!

7/11/13 12:02:33 PM#97
Originally posted by Dihoru

The massively factor comes into play with amount of players by your own words in which case quite a few actual MMOs aren't MMOs because of lack of players, otherwise you can't say thiIs not a massive world.

I'm starting to know your posting habits, and now you're starting to basically "argue on semantics" just to avoid admitting you are wrong.

The "massively" part of "MMORPG" was always about the number of players. Minecraft even as a solo game indeed has a massive world which expands each time you reach a new area with procedurally generated content, but it can NOT accept a massive amount of players.

I'm actually participating in a Minecraft server emulating "Westeros" from "Game of Thrones". The world is massive, huge. It's not a MMORPG, not even close to it. Another server I visit is a Middle Earth representation. Same thing, it's huge, but it's not massively multiplayer at all.

Anyone saying Minecraft in its actual state, even with the mods, is a MMO, cannot be serious.

But then, some people here would even say Pong is a MMO if it made them feel like they won some argument.

Playing now: Archeage, WoW, Landmark, GW2

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  KBishop

Novice Member

Joined: 7/08/13
Posts: 205

7/11/13 12:04:26 PM#98
Originally posted by Dihoru
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by Dihoru
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

Gotta love how Minecraft suddenly "counts as a MMO" when it serves someone's argument.

My avatar picture once again applies...

You doubt the power of mods? ^^

http://www.europeinruins.com/ that's what people did without a massive world readily accessible via a server, how much do you wanna bet the infinitely more moddable Minecraft has something like well...  http://dev.bukkit.org/bukkit-plugins/mcmmo/ .

No I do not, I tried many of those minecraft worlds and I love the game.

None of those pseudo MMOs are MMOs. They lack the "massively" factor. The server/client architecture just isn't adapted. It's the same than people who made persistent worlds with NWN. Being persistent is not enough to be a MMO.

Yeah, you can turn Minecraft and NWN into multiplayer online worlds. But definitely not massive. Unless you agree that running your own Quake 3 Arena server is running a MMO.

The massively factor comes into play with amount of players by your own words in which case quite a few actual MMOs aren't MMOs because of lack of players, otherwise you can't say this

Is not a massive world.

You're not entirely understanding what he meant it seems. The player count IS related to what constitutes as an MMO, but it more has to do with how many people can engage amongst themselves simultaniously.

MMO is not defined by the size of the world, otherwise you could have single player games that would count as MMO's by that definition, which is not the case.

  Dihoru

Elite Member

Joined: 1/11/06
Posts: 2623

7/11/13 12:10:51 PM#99
Originally posted by KBishop
Originally posted by Dihoru
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by Dihoru
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

Gotta love how Minecraft suddenly "counts as a MMO" when it serves someone's argument.

My avatar picture once again applies...

You doubt the power of mods? ^^

http://www.europeinruins.com/ that's what people did without a massive world readily accessible via a server, how much do you wanna bet the infinitely more moddable Minecraft has something like well...  http://dev.bukkit.org/bukkit-plugins/mcmmo/ .

No I do not, I tried many of those minecraft worlds and I love the game.

None of those pseudo MMOs are MMOs. They lack the "massively" factor. The server/client architecture just isn't adapted. It's the same than people who made persistent worlds with NWN. Being persistent is not enough to be a MMO.

Yeah, you can turn Minecraft and NWN into multiplayer online worlds. But definitely not massive. Unless you agree that running your own Quake 3 Arena server is running a MMO.

The massively factor comes into play with amount of players by your own words in which case quite a few actual MMOs aren't MMOs because of lack of players, otherwise you can't say this

Is not a massive world.

You're not entirely understanding what he meant it seems. The player count IS related to what constitutes as an MMO, but it more has to do with how many people can engage amongst themselves simultaniously.

MMO is not defined by the size of the world, otherwise you could have single player games that would count as MMO's by that definition, which is not the case.

What I am not understanding is why he claims Minecraft can't be modded to become a mod? I mean if they plug in everything which makes a MMO an MMO then what is the difference? regardless if it is a sandbox or a themepark and if engagement between is the same as lets say a average MMO, what is the difference?

 

Also Jean Luc find me a link stating that Minecraft has a hardcoded (IE cannot be removed) limit to how many players there could be at any given time on a Minecraft server... otherwise if it quacks like a duck.

  Benedikt

Tipster

Joined: 12/12/04
Posts: 1290

We live for The One, we die for The One.

7/11/13 12:11:22 PM#100
Originally posted by Dihoru

Actually ... if you take lists of games which are considered MMO sandboxes you'll see a grand total of 5 maybe 6 which are Open World PVP regardless of server ( EVE-Online which only has one server, Salem, Perpetuum, I heard it was OW PVP so I count it, Darkfall, Archeage and if you're feeling really loose with the definition of sandbox: Age of Wushu/Wulin).

In contrast: Wurm Online has split servers (PVE and PVP),

true, but it was made as a pvp game first and pvp servers get additional features over pve one (tho i agree that wurm can be rather easily played as pve game)

 

The Repopulation recently announced it would have servers with different rulesets (which include both PVE and PVP but also if memory serves also differences in death penalties), Embers of Caerus (isn't yet announced but rumor has it it'll likely also be server rulesets or instanced siege events without open world PVP zones),

both are not released yet, in case of embers you are talking about only a speculations

Ryzom

i am not sure i would count ryzom as a sandbox, it has open world, free progression and crafting, but no way to affect the world around you in any meaningful way

A tale in the desert

tale in the desert doesnt have any pve at all, it is pure build and craft game

Minecraft (which counts as an MMO because there are at least 2 mods which add in what is lacking from the game to be an MMO and servers can be PVE or PVP)

minecraft isnt an mmo, because it doesnt support high amounts of players on 1 server even with the mods

and seriously - are you trying to pass game as a mmo because of fan mods?

Origins of Malu (which seems to have faction based warfare only), etc.

yeah and that does make it pve, right? give me a break.

 The only two games which have steadfastly stated that they will have Open World PVP which are in development now (active) is Albion Online and Eternal Crusade, every other sandbox I can think of is still iffy (Gloria Victis, Edengrad,etc).

gloria victis i would say is about as iffy as embers which you didnt have any problem using

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