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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Explain to me the appeal of a Crafting Focused MMO

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71 posts found
  maplestone

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 3109

7/08/13 4:07:11 PM#41
Originally posted by page975
In my old vanalla WoW days I made way more by harvesting only than crafting ever could.....I had sooo much gold I could buy anything the game had to offer, 10x over......Crafting never pays !.....Also in most mmos it was hard to find a crafter that could craft stuff for their level :)

Profit margins tend to the the opposite of what the majority finds fun.

A niche is profitable if there isn't much competition.  If there isn't much competition, it presumably means that most other people aren't doing it.  If they aren't doing it, they must not find it fun.

( this is why I usually seperate selling from crafting in these discussion as being as two seperate playstyles )

 

  Quazal.A

Novice Member

Joined: 6/10/13
Posts: 420

7/08/13 4:11:44 PM#42
Originally posted by page975

In my old vanalla WoW days I made way more by harvesting only than crafting ever could.....I had sooo much gold I could buy anything the game had to offer, 10x over......Crafting never pays !.....Also in most mmos it was hard to find a crafter that could craft stuff for their own level :)

You keep pulling your hair out crafting, and I'll keep making money off you !

this is the problem with loot based MMO , where items are not dropped as loot then the crafter holds all the cards, come to eve and show me how mining will earn you more than my crafting :)

Also, just become some dicks dont know how to manage the market doens't mean the crafting is broke, in WoW what i used to do was buy the cloth and craft bandages then sell to npc as crafted bandages and would make upwards of 100% markup so yes crafting even in WoW had its profitable items, i would oftren be found stood by ogrimmar AH crafting 1000s of bandages on weekends. (neverweave was the best money maker in them days)

This post is all my opinion, but I welcome debate on anything i have put, however, personal slander / name calling belongs in game :) were of course your welcome to call me names im often found lounging about in EvE online.
Use this code for 21days trial in eve online https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=d385aff2-794a-44a4-96f1-3967ccf6d720&action=buddy

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2804

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

 
OP  7/08/13 4:13:41 PM#43
Originally posted by Myrdynn

Azza, I too am from AC so I will try to explain it in an AC centric way.

In AC we would hunt for hours on end, for that low quality max stats gear, that could be tinkered to max.  We would also hunt hours for high quality materials that we could then tinker with.  That Q10 Sunstone, or Granite bag that was saved for tink no 10 was ever so valuable.  Tinkering became the gear game, finding loot was still great, but it could be trash with the failure to apply.  Just imagine in a craft centric game, we gather everything, so instead of finding a max sword with max mods, we now hunt for all of our materials to make the sword as well as enhance it to its maximum possible.

Not saying EQN though will be like this, but a perfect crafting system would be AC's Tinkering system with the added property of weapon creation, it may happen someday, what if in AC you found 10  Q 10 hilts that could be combined by a max level crafter and 10 Q 10 blades that could also be combined, now find something that can remove a major sword buff and apply it in the process, etc.

 

You're right on the tinkering aspect and I loved that about the game as well but the real fun was still finding the perfect Amuli coat and Legs with matching trim and in my case containing Major Life, Axe, Melee Defense, and Arcane Lore.

 

Appreciate this post as well, it helps allays any fears I have about a crafting centric MMO.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20173

7/08/13 4:15:09 PM#44
Originally posted by jonesing22
 

So you're saying you want the same rewards for soloing as grouping? 

You don't want a social experience when playing a game? Go play a single player RPG.

I can't trade in AH in a SP RPG.

I can't show off my gear in a SP RPG.

Social experience is not the only reason to have other players around you in a game.

 

  Betaguy

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/31/04
Posts: 2646

Some folks are like Slinkies, totally useless but great fun to watch when pushed down stairs

7/08/13 4:19:32 PM#45
Originally posted by azzamasin

When I talk about Crafting focused or Crafting Centric I am not talking about building like Minecraft  But having little to no loot drops and instead all Armor and Weapons being crafted. 

 

My biggest reason is I fail to see the incentive to actually hunting and exploring, let alone tackling tough boss mob types.  I come from an Asheron's Call MMO background where Loot played a major role in the longevity of the game and to this day I fail to see how Crafting can be as rewarding as finding that 1 in a million rare drop.  Now I am not talking about doing instance raids, as I hate that style of loot acquisition but instead I prefer a more Diablo/ARPG style approach to acquiring gear, through random drops and luck of the draw. 

 

I've never played a Crafting Centric sandbox where gear is predominantly attained via crafting but I fail to see the appeal in it, and it is a prime concern for me when discussing EQN.  Why would I go out hunting, exploring and grinding mobs when I know theres little value in doing so......This is also a primary reason for me quitting games like GW2 and now Neverwinter.  Both Crafting Centric and Raid/Party Specific styles of MMO are on opposite ends of the spectrum, where both styles either remove the option or require a group.  If this makes any sense let me just explain it like this.  We are not grouped 24/7 in an MMO in fact my time spent in a group is on the order of 5%.  What this means is that 95% of my time is spent by myself solo, when this happens I want to do what I enjoy....things like explore and hunting but when I know my time is spent wasted because I will never acquire anything useful I get bored rather quick.  Does this make sense?  Its hard to describe but I decided to quit Neverwinter because my enjoyment has waned even though I enjoyed the combat and the Foundry but there was something missing and it took me a few days to figure it out.  It all boils down to not being properly rewarded for doing what I enjoy and to me the best way to reward me is through random loot drops.  It's what I enjoyed so much about Asheron's Call, it kept me playing for longer then any MMO because I never knew what I would get.

In order to craft better gear you fight them tough boss encounters for crafting items to make said loot.  SWG worked well and kept many scouts/rangers/explorer's/ employed. It really gave a sense of community pride and working together on a large scale. Guild pride was also very strong and in your face. I prefer crafting and player driven economies as I have played them, they create so many politics and fueds on a social and pvp level that it gives you player driven content.

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 7181

7/08/13 4:33:48 PM#46


Originally posted by azzamasin

Or you could read my post and learn that I also do not like this method of gear acquisition either.

Basically same thing - you kill 1 specific mob over and over or just kill random mobs over and over.


I am pretty much all the opposite - I do not understand what the "fun" is in complete randomness of item stats. It kills any economy/market since supply - demand cannot really work that way, and I see it as an utter waste of time and heap of frustration(there is no goal to achieve, all is random).

  Myrdynn

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/25/07
Posts: 1426

7/08/13 4:34:23 PM#47
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by Myrdynn

Azza, I too am from AC so I will try to explain it in an AC centric way.

In AC we would hunt for hours on end, for that low quality max stats gear, that could be tinkered to max.  We would also hunt hours for high quality materials that we could then tinker with.  That Q10 Sunstone, or Granite bag that was saved for tink no 10 was ever so valuable.  Tinkering became the gear game, finding loot was still great, but it could be trash with the failure to apply.  Just imagine in a craft centric game, we gather everything, so instead of finding a max sword with max mods, we now hunt for all of our materials to make the sword as well as enhance it to its maximum possible.

Not saying EQN though will be like this, but a perfect crafting system would be AC's Tinkering system with the added property of weapon creation, it may happen someday, what if in AC you found 10  Q 10 hilts that could be combined by a max level crafter and 10 Q 10 blades that could also be combined, now find something that can remove a major sword buff and apply it in the process, etc.

 

You're right on the tinkering aspect and I loved that about the game as well but the real fun was still finding the perfect Amuli coat and Legs with matching trim and in my case containing Major Life, Axe, Melee Defense, and Arcane Lore.

 

Appreciate this post as well, it helps allays any fears I have about a crafting centric MMO.

ahh mine was the Covenant Armor, loved that look, actually built a mage build around it, I was the first Cove Mage, which was a build of specced Life, Missile( had to reach 400+ buffed missile defense to activate my armor, Creature.  Was so much fun, I was a mage tank who didnt even have offensive spells (outside of life drains) All I would do was debuff the shit out of everything while holding aggro while my fellowship burned down the mobs in the Valley of Death.

  Myrdynn

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/25/07
Posts: 1426

7/08/13 4:40:31 PM#48
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by azzamasin

Or you could read my post and learn that I also do not like this method of gear acquisition either.

 

Basically same thing - you kill 1 specific mob over and over or just kill random mobs over and over.


I am pretty much all the opposite - I do not understand what the "fun" is in complete randomness of item stats. It kills any economy/market since supply - demand cannot really work that way, and I see it as an utter waste of time and heap of frustration(there is no goal to achieve, all is random).

play Asheron's Call and you would see it, we would form adventures rather then just farming one boss over and over waiting for drop.  My Fellowship (group of 9) would meet up every morning at 2 am at the entrance to the Valley of Death, we had one person whose sole job was looting, grabbing crafting materials, and examining objects, it was a full time job, that we sometimes had to stop and wait for him to catch up.  The other 8 would simply just GO in any direction, killing everything in our path.  It was great times, great exp, great loot, at the end of our session each day we would divide up the Singularity keys (top end chest unlocking item, and top currency item on my server) and go over the loot.  All the items we would salvage would be transferred to our groups Tinkering Mule, who we perched on a hill nearby to share exp with in order to help us all.

We just played and had fun, didnt worry about xxxboss and we liked it like that, any mob we killed could drop a top item at anytime, so we killed everything, we didnt try to skip trash or avoid pulls like other games

as to your supply demand theory, you couldnt be more wrong, it creates economy, because there is no "best gear" that eventually everyone has farmed, there is constantly items changing hands, being passed down, cause there was no BOE either

 

  Konfess

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/10/07
Posts: 753

7/08/13 5:16:35 PM#49

Know it or not, you have just explained the success of WoW to the general public.  Blizzard learned from Diablo that players got a "burst of joy" from loot drops, especially rare ones.  That is why the loot tables in WoW are so important and so many sites track WoW loot drops.  The Human Animal enjoys their "Big O" from loot drops, and focus on games that provide the "Big O" experience.  Most games that "Fail", do not provide the "Big O" experience.

You are right, a sandbox game that doesn't incorporate loot drops, will lose players.  Case in point, SWG.  I had mining and skinning on my main.  I got my "Big O" from looking for good sampling nodes at the beginning of the week and harvest meat, bone, and hides.

Here is the thing, everyone's needs are different.  A player's "Bartle Quotient" determines how much the need a loot drop system.  I believe that a player that has a strong Achiever component will need loot drops.  A player that has a low Achiever quotient will not.  Now I am not saying that these games compartmentalize their satisfaction vectors.  But these vectors are not direct.

I haven't played NeverWinter Online yet, but like SWG I expect that for a Killer Quotient bases quest, the player is rewarded with in game credits.  This monetary reward can now be traded with a crafter (Achiever) for a crafted reward (loot drop).  The crafter will be valued and praised for the quality of their items, the rarity of their loot drop.  This is a form of "Forced Social Interaction."  If you are not a fan of social interaction, then you will not be a fan of this type of game.

Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20173

7/08/13 6:07:06 PM#50
Originally posted by Gdemami


I am pretty much all the opposite - I do not understand what the "fun" is in complete randomness of item stats. It kills any economy/market since supply - demand cannot really work that way, and I see it as an utter waste of time and heap of frustration(there is no goal to achieve, all is random).

it all boils down to preferences.

And random stats gear is highly successful in games from Diablo 1 to 3. Millions of players are engaging in what you think is "utter waste of time" for long while.

What is the point? What you think is "utter waste of time" is fun entertainment for others.

  free2play

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/13/05
Posts: 1817

7/08/13 6:21:54 PM#51

EVE is not what I see as craft based. It's a player driven manufacturing system that regulates the economy and most people in EVE never build anything more than Ammo or T1 modules. EVE econ is a digital cartel that is influenced heavily by RMT. It works in EVE, the manufacturing lines of SP are very woven in to the game but the RMT side show the dangers in allowing a player base to control deep, core mechanics.

 

Besides SWG I haven't really played a true crafting to econ based game. Almost all games I have played since that don't have the decay to support crafting.You never replace anything in those games. SWG was also the only game with dynamic resources in the gathering system. From Naboo Berries to Yavinian Wooly hide, there were thousands of version of every resource in the game over its life. Each one having unique stats and each one having a very specific life cycle that it could be harvested on.

 

Star Wars Galaxies PreCU defined MMO crafting and Gathering and it is unmatched to this day. You really had to play that game to appreciate what it gave to the Genre and what it gave to that game. It was as much an adventure as any quest or storyline ever created for an MMO. It was pure gaming.

  YoungCaesar

Novice Member

Joined: 7/08/13
Posts: 231

7/08/13 6:30:12 PM#52

I think the ideal system would be, instead of those random "epic" loot drops, there should be epic crafting mats dropping from bosses, so theres still that sense of achievement to go out and hunt monsters to craft that epic sword... with tons and tons of different possible mats to collect with different stats...

 

 

  Theocritus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/15/08
Posts: 3616

7/08/13 7:14:37 PM#53
Funny you bring up Minecraft...i love to craft in most MMOs but hated Minecraft.....As for crafting focused MMOs some of us just simply enjoy the time relaxing and making things to sell to other players or give to our alts......I'd much rather play a crafting MMO than a full loot PVP MMO any day.
  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2804

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

 
OP  7/08/13 8:07:39 PM#54
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by azzamasin

Or you could read my post and learn that I also do not like this method of gear acquisition either.

 

Basically same thing - you kill 1 specific mob over and over or just kill random mobs over and over.


I am pretty much all the opposite - I do not understand what the "fun" is in complete randomness of item stats. It kills any economy/market since supply - demand cannot really work that way, and I see it as an utter waste of time and heap of frustration(there is no goal to achieve, all is random).

 I never sat and killed 1 type of mob.  I roamed and explored in certain areas that contained high level mobs that had a "perceived" chance of finding better loot.  Started off with Olthoi Queens, progressed to Unbis Shadow near Forth Teth, then Banderling Maulers on Aerfalle, to Virinidi and Crystal Golems in Valley of Death in the Direlands.  Sure the best course of XP was by camping certain mobs in dungeons like Tuskers, Olthoi Soldiers, and Lugians but I rarely camped mobs/grinded XP because those mobs dropped bad loot but were good for XP.

 

Also In close to 14 years of Asheron's Call I never saw an economy that was fluid and dynamic as in AC.  Shards, sing keys, MFK's, MMD notes and high level Majors have all been part of a greater economy something a cash economy like every MMO has ever adopted has failed to live up too IMO.

 

The fun I find in this system is every kill is a thrill, I'll never know what I get.  I do not need a group or a raid to get a "specific" item, I can do it by myself or with a group but the group isn't required.  I also have the thrill of finding the perect matching pice of armor instead of knowing the best thing I can get can be acquired through a little bit of grinding.  Maybe if crafting centric games had a randomness to their look with thousands of different aesthetic choices I would enjoy it more, but knowing I am going to get a +4 platemail Hauberk of Strength which looks like every other Hauberk of Strength with a little bit of grinding is missing something I enjoy about dynamic loot.  Personal tastes only.  As for a goal, the goal is to find the best look with the best stats and instead of "knowing" when you get it, you never know which kill will drop that next perfect piece to your suit.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2804

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

 
OP  7/08/13 8:12:09 PM#55
Originally posted by Myrdynn
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by Myrdynn

Azza, I too am from AC so I will try to explain it in an AC centric way.

In AC we would hunt for hours on end, for that low quality max stats gear, that could be tinkered to max.  We would also hunt hours for high quality materials that we could then tinker with.  That Q10 Sunstone, or Granite bag that was saved for tink no 10 was ever so valuable.  Tinkering became the gear game, finding loot was still great, but it could be trash with the failure to apply.  Just imagine in a craft centric game, we gather everything, so instead of finding a max sword with max mods, we now hunt for all of our materials to make the sword as well as enhance it to its maximum possible.

Not saying EQN though will be like this, but a perfect crafting system would be AC's Tinkering system with the added property of weapon creation, it may happen someday, what if in AC you found 10  Q 10 hilts that could be combined by a max level crafter and 10 Q 10 blades that could also be combined, now find something that can remove a major sword buff and apply it in the process, etc.

 

You're right on the tinkering aspect and I loved that about the game as well but the real fun was still finding the perfect Amuli coat and Legs with matching trim and in my case containing Major Life, Axe, Melee Defense, and Arcane Lore.

 

Appreciate this post as well, it helps allays any fears I have about a crafting centric MMO.

ahh mine was the Covenant Armor, loved that look, actually built a mage build around it, I was the first Cove Mage, which was a build of specced Life, Missile( had to reach 400+ buffed missile defense to activate my armor, Creature.  Was so much fun, I was a mage tank who didnt even have offensive spells (outside of life drains) All I would do was debuff the shit out of everything while holding aggro while my fellowship burned down the mobs in the Valley of Death.

God I wish someone would make an Asheron's Call with updated graphics and a better combat system.  Lord knows it would do well in this day and age.  Till then I am stuck waiting on EQN and hearing people discuss their love the IP and it makes me feel left out.  I could write a book about my adventures in AC and hope someday someone would do that style justice so I can have the same nostalgia trip people are having with EQN.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  centkin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/01/10
Posts: 826

7/08/13 9:23:32 PM#56
Originally posted by azzamasin

When I talk about Crafting focused or Crafting Centric I am not talking about building like Minecraft  But having little to no loot drops and instead all Armor and Weapons being crafted. 

 

My biggest reason is I fail to see the incentive to actually hunting and exploring, let alone tackling tough boss mob types.  I come from an Asheron's Call MMO background where Loot played a major role in the longevity of the game and to this day I fail to see how Crafting can be as rewarding as finding that 1 in a million rare drop.  Now I am not talking about doing instance raids, as I hate that style of loot acquisition but instead I prefer a more Diablo/ARPG style approach to acquiring gear, through random drops and luck of the draw. 

 

I've never played a Crafting Centric sandbox where gear is predominantly attained via crafting but I fail to see the appeal in it, and it is a prime concern for me when discussing EQN.  Why would I go out hunting, exploring and grinding mobs when I know theres little value in doing so......This is also a primary reason for me quitting games like GW2 and now Neverwinter.  Both Crafting Centric and Raid/Party Specific styles of MMO are on opposite ends of the spectrum, where both styles either remove the option or require a group.  If this makes any sense let me just explain it like this.  We are not grouped 24/7 in an MMO in fact my time spent in a group is on the order of 5%.  What this means is that 95% of my time is spent by myself solo, when this happens I want to do what I enjoy....things like explore and hunting but when I know my time is spent wasted because I will never acquire anything useful I get bored rather quick.  Does this make sense?  Its hard to describe but I decided to quit Neverwinter because my enjoyment has waned even though I enjoyed the combat and the Foundry but there was something missing and it took me a few days to figure it out.  It all boils down to not being properly rewarded for doing what I enjoy and to me the best way to reward me is through random loot drops.  It's what I enjoyed so much about Asheron's Call, it kept me playing for longer then any MMO because I never knew what I would get.

I loved the Asheron's call loot slot machine.  It was especially good earlyish in the game (before they started really messing with the system -- IE back in the Dark Majesty days or earlier when they didnt have the extra points for billions of exp metered month by month and the only really good stuff dropped from chests).  What was good was any monster could drop something great and even the lousy stuff could look good or be salvagable.

But lets get to the point I wanted to make:

Asheron's call tinkering was an important crafting form and you REALLY risked your stuff getting it to ten tinkers.  And you needed those to have the best of the best.

If you wussed out on tinkering your double major then your AL or weapon damage would suffer.  It actually made such things less unbalanced because you could 10 tinker several majors to higher al than you would dare do a double.

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 7181

7/08/13 11:43:55 PM#57


Originally posted by nariusseldon
it all boils down to preferences.

And random stats gear is highly successful in games from Diablo 1 to 3. Millions of players are engaging in what you think is "utter waste of time" for long while.

What is the point? What you think is "utter waste of time" is fun entertainment for others.


That was my whole point.

  someforumguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/25/07
Posts: 3504

7/08/13 11:51:12 PM#58
Originally posted by azzamasin

When I talk about Crafting focused or Crafting Centric I am not talking about building like Minecraft  But having little to no loot drops and instead all Armor and Weapons being crafted. 

 

My biggest reason is I fail to see the incentive to actually hunting and exploring, let alone tackling tough boss mob types.  I come from an Asheron's Call MMO background where Loot played a major role in the longevity of the game and to this day I fail to see how Crafting can be as rewarding as finding that 1 in a million rare drop.  Now I am not talking about doing instance raids, as I hate that style of loot acquisition but instead I prefer a more Diablo/ARPG style approach to acquiring gear, through random drops and luck of the draw. 

 

I've never played a Crafting Centric sandbox where gear is predominantly attained via crafting but I fail to see the appeal in it, and it is a prime concern for me when discussing EQN.  Why would I go out hunting, exploring and grinding mobs when I know theres little value in doing so......This is also a primary reason for me quitting games like GW2 and now Neverwinter.  Both Crafting Centric and Raid/Party Specific styles of MMO are on opposite ends of the spectrum, where both styles either remove the option or require a group.  If this makes any sense let me just explain it like this.  We are not grouped 24/7 in an MMO in fact my time spent in a group is on the order of 5%.  What this means is that 95% of my time is spent by myself solo, when this happens I want to do what I enjoy....things like explore and hunting but when I know my time is spent wasted because I will never acquire anything useful I get bored rather quick.  Does this make sense?  Its hard to describe but I decided to quit Neverwinter because my enjoyment has waned even though I enjoyed the combat and the Foundry but there was something missing and it took me a few days to figure it out.  It all boils down to not being properly rewarded for doing what I enjoy and to me the best way to reward me is through random loot drops.  It's what I enjoyed so much about Asheron's Call, it kept me playing for longer then any MMO because I never knew what I would get.

Well, your example of a crafting focussed MMO is just as one sided as a loot focussed MMO where crafting plays no (important) role at all. I never played such a crafting focussed MMO.

Even SWG wasn't only crafting focussed. It was just a possible path you could follow (both pre and post NGE). There were always incentives to explore, hunt and do combat for resources. While at the same time it also had an awesome resource gathering system for crafters.  It had an awesome balance between combat focussed players and crafting focussed players. Key point here is that this MMO could cater to both and both paths were viable as your main playstyle. This is what made it a sandbox for me.

I can say this too about Vanguard and Fallen Earth, although these are mainly about nodehunting with resources, which makes it kind of different and puts the resource gathering mainly into combat hands. Although you could debate whether those games are sandboxes, both have viable crafting. And let you focus on that, instead of crafting being some side job like in most themepark MMO's.

EDIT : Forgot about EVE. EVE also has a great balance between crafting and combat.

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 7181

7/08/13 11:57:11 PM#59


Originally posted by azzamasin

I never sat and killed 1 type of mob. 


Killing "1 specific mob over and over" was refering to dungeon boss and as pointed out, it is pretty much the same as "roaming" you are doing - both are about random drop.

It is the randomness of stats that is killing the game economy and you need to get rid of it in order to make crafting meaningful and deep so that crafters can produce what people want - supply the demand.


That shifts the concept of gear being the tool instead of reward.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20173

7/09/13 10:49:50 AM#60
Originally posted by YoungCaesar

I think the ideal system would be, instead of those random "epic" loot drops, there should be epic crafting mats dropping from bosses, so theres still that sense of achievement to go out and hunt monsters to craft that epic sword... with tons and tons of different possible mats to collect with different stats...

 

 

There is. The legendaries in WOW are all crafted.

And in each tier, there is usually one or two crafted BIS or almost BIS items.

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