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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » We don't need anymore PvP focused sandbox mmos right now.

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677 posts found
  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2873

There... are... four... lights!

7/08/13 5:06:19 PM#101
Originally posted by Loktofeit 

Free Realms is a PvE MMO sandbox, but probably not to 'real' MMO gamers who want to be able to crap all over the game world... but don't want to deal with other people's crap.

Come on... Free Realms main problem is that it's aimed for kids. It has nothing to do with the game being PvE oriented.

Actually, there are lots of PvE focused sandbox style games, but they are targeted toward casuals, kids and Moms.

You said it. We need a PvE with optional (on player choice) PvP sandbox game that is not focused towards kids and moms. Something like what post-Trammel UO was, but with modern technology, and with a major developer doing it and not some utterly bad amateur developer with an ego bigger than his talent (Darkfall, Mortal...).

Yes, the actual market lacks such a game. Not everyone wants to play a spaceship in EvE online or is able to be immersed in the really old graphics of UO. Those gamers deserve something modern they can call home.

Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2

Got a refund: Archeage. First refund since I started MMOs.

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  nariusseldon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20226

7/08/13 5:08:19 PM#102
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
 

Come on... Free Realms main problem is that it's aimed for kids. It has nothing to do with the game being PvE oriented.

You said it. We need a PvE with optional (on player choice) PvP sandbox game that is not focused towards kids and moms. Something like what post-Trammel UO was, but with modern technology, and with a major developer doing it and not some utterly bad amateur developer with an ego bigger than his talent (Darkfall, Mortal...).

Yes, the actual market lacks such a game. Not everyone wants to play a spaceship in EvE online or is able to be immersed in the really old graphics of UO. Those gamers deserve something modern they can call home.

Why is it a problem? I don't see why devs shouldn't create games for kids.

If the market lacks such a game, may be the demand is not high enough to warrant one.

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2873

There... are... four... lights!

7/08/13 5:14:26 PM#103
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
 

Come on... Free Realms main problem is that it's aimed for kids. It has nothing to do with the game being PvE oriented.

You said it. We need a PvE with optional (on player choice) PvP sandbox game that is not focused towards kids and moms. Something like what post-Trammel UO was, but with modern technology, and with a major developer doing it and not some utterly bad amateur developer with an ego bigger than his talent (Darkfall, Mortal...).

Yes, the actual market lacks such a game. Not everyone wants to play a spaceship in EvE online or is able to be immersed in the really old graphics of UO. Those gamers deserve something modern they can call home.

Why is it a problem? I don't see why devs shouldn't create games for kids.

If the market lacks such a game, may be the demand is not high enough to warrant one.

You got the point actually, congrats. The market already has a sandbox PvE MMO aimed for kids... "Free Realms".

Now it needs a similar sandbox MMO NOT aimed for kids. And if you think the demand is not high enough you will have to explain two facts... why are PvE centrics MMOs hugely more successful than the forced PvP ones, and why is Ultima Online, the oldest "mainstream" MMORPG, still running despite it's totally obsolete isometric graphics and age old technology.

There's a market, someone just has to do a QUALITY game to fill the gap. Not some utter crap made by amateurs who think they know it better in their garage, but a quality product companies like SoE, Blizzard or ANet can provide.

Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2

Got a refund: Archeage. First refund since I started MMOs.

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  Snoogems

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/20/06
Posts: 101

7/08/13 5:24:01 PM#104
we need both more pvp and pve focused sandbox mmorpgs. the only reason both pvp and pve players want more games  of their type is that we are unsatisfied with all mmorps on the market.
  Margulis

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/14/08
Posts: 1643

 
OP  7/08/13 5:26:43 PM#105
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by azzamasin

Originally posted by nerovipus32

Originally posted by Waterlily If they promote this game as a PVP game, it's dead out of the gate. PVE players outnumber PVP players tenfold.
Some players like both, what category do they fall into? Good job at making up statistics though.
 He was being kind, its more like a thousand fold.  And this isn't make believe numbers.  There's no rationale human who can look at the MMO landscape and believe that PvP players outnumber PvE players.  Sure there are both but the genre is the, will always be the, loved by the: PvE crowd


It's hardly official, but at least for people on this site, it breaks down like so:

http://www.mmorpg.com/features.cfm/view/polls
Which is more important in an MMO, PvE or PvP?
Opened: 02/19/2009
Respondents: 15,484
Status: Open

PvP - 5.7%
PvE - 14.8%
PvP focus with a little PvE - 10.5%
PvE focus with a little PvP - 34.8%
Equal Parts PvE and PvP - 34.2%


And this is what is so frustrating, that pretty much every sandbox currently available, and coming down the pipeline, is targeted for that 10.5% of the mmo population.  Archeage may be one, MAY BE, that actually falls more into the equal PvE and PvP, but pretty much all others PvP focus with little PvE

So the "pure" PvE people are nearly triple the numbers of the purely PvP people. The PvE focused people and the equal parts PvP/PvE peole dwarf everyone else though.

I would be interested in a new poll on this same subject.

 

 

  Vossik

Novice Member

Joined: 9/01/12
Posts: 25

7/08/13 5:35:15 PM#106
Originally posted by Horusra
Originally posted by Vossik

The ABSOLUTE LAST thing the mmo market needs is another mmo focused on scripted dungeons you and your friends (or whatever asshat seventeen year old the group finder vomits up)  zerg over and over until you either die of boredom, die of frustration over morons, or get the carrot you've been chasing. Then it's on to the next carrot! Why? To justify losing your soul chasing the last one. 

NO THANK YOU 

 

 

The ABSOLUTE LAST thing the mmo market needs is another mmo focused on ganking for you and your friends (or whatever asshat seventeen year old that wants to feel leet)  camping over and over until you either die of boredom, die of frustration over morons, or get the carrot you've been chasing. Then it's on to the next carrot! Why? To justify losing your soul chasing the last one. 

NO THANK YOU 

Yeah, that doesn't really work with the pvp perspective just plugged in. Nice try. 

Pvp isn't always a gank fests. 

Getting ganked doesn't automatically mean you die. 

Getting successfully ganked doesn't automatically mean you'll get camped.

See how fighting other players can be way more fun than your scripted dragon killing?

  jdlamson75

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/27/08
Posts: 925

There's some lovely filth down here.

7/08/13 5:40:28 PM#107
Every themepark out there is primarily based around PvE.  Now the PvE crowd wants dibs on the sandboxes, too.  Want, want, want.  Go raid a dragon lair or something and stay out of my sandbox.  Thank you.
  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2873

There... are... four... lights!

7/08/13 5:47:48 PM#108
Originally posted by jdlamson75
Every themepark out there is primarily based around PvE.  Now the PvE crowd wants dibs on the sandboxes, too.  Want, want, want.  Go raid a dragon lair or something and stay out of my sandbox.  Thank you.

That doesn't make any sense. It's just like arguing there's no need for quality seafood restaurants in a town just because there are already dozens of quality meat serving ones.

I'm sure no theme park player would mind if there were more PvP centric games if in return they also had access to quality more PvE centric sandbox games which aren't mindless gank fests.

Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2

Got a refund: Archeage. First refund since I started MMOs.

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  maccarthur2004

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/12
Posts: 508

7/08/13 5:48:47 PM#109
Originally posted by jdlamson75
Every themepark out there is primarily based around PvE.  Now the PvE crowd wants dibs on the sandboxes, too.  Want, want, want.  Go raid a dragon lair or something and stay out of my sandbox.  Thank you.

I wonder what will be the next "cool thing" that usually has in pvp focused mmos the pve crowd will desire (and complain, asking why the devs dont  do pve focused mmos with that "cool thing").

 

 

"What we are aiming in ArcheAge is to let the players feel the true fun of MMORPG by forming a community like real life by interacting with other players, whether it be conflict or cooperation." (Jake Song)

  whisperwynd

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/22/06
Posts: 1432

Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the priviledge to do so as well.

7/08/13 5:54:19 PM#110
Originally posted by jdlamson75
Every themepark out there is primarily based around PvE.  Now the PvE crowd wants dibs on the sandboxes, too.  Want, want, want.  Go raid a dragon lair or something and stay out of my sandbox.  Thank you.

 Sandbox is not/has never been a term used solely for PvP centric games. It is how the world interacts with the player, non-linear progression, with many options to choose in which to advance. SWG was considered sandbox yet wasn't only PvP.

 You want a good PvP sandbox, great but the sandbox mmo does belong to only PvP or PvE, it is what the devs want their world to be.

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2873

There... are... four... lights!

7/08/13 5:55:43 PM#111
Originally posted by whisperwynd
Originally posted by jdlamson75
Every themepark out there is primarily based around PvE.  Now the PvE crowd wants dibs on the sandboxes, too.  Want, want, want.  Go raid a dragon lair or something and stay out of my sandbox.  Thank you.

 Sandbox is not/has never been a term used solely for PvP centric games. It is how the world interacts with the player, non-linear progression, with many options to choose in which to advance. SWG was considered sandbox yet wasn't only PvP.

 You want a good PvP sandbox, great but the sandbox mmo does belong to only PvP or PvE, it is what the devs want their world to be.

SWG and UO.

Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2

Got a refund: Archeage. First refund since I started MMOs.

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  nariusseldon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20226

7/08/13 6:01:15 PM#112
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

Now it needs a similar sandbox MMO NOT aimed for kids. And if you think the demand is not high enough you will have to explain two facts... why are PvE centrics MMOs hugely more successful than the forced PvP ones, and why is Ultima Online, the oldest "mainstream" MMORPG, still running despite it's totally obsolete isometric graphics and age old technology.

.

Explaining the two facts:

1) pve centric MMO huge more successful than forced pvp ones ... irrelevant to the demand of sandbox MMO. None of those successes are sandbox MMOs (and Eve is really not that successful, compared to non-sandbox)

2) UO is still running ... so what? Runescape is still running. Even Kingdom of Drakkar is still running. Old games can run with 5000 people because it is cheap. Planning anything major devs because some old games are still running .. does not seem to be a money making strategy to me.

  whisperwynd

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/22/06
Posts: 1432

Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the priviledge to do so as well.

7/08/13 6:02:52 PM#113
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by whisperwynd
Originally posted by jdlamson75
Every themepark out there is primarily based around PvE.  Now the PvE crowd wants dibs on the sandboxes, too.  Want, want, want.  Go raid a dragon lair or something and stay out of my sandbox.  Thank you.

 Sandbox is not/has never been a term used solely for PvP centric games. It is how the world interacts with the player, non-linear progression, with many options to choose in which to advance. SWG was considered sandbox yet wasn't only PvP.

 You want a good PvP sandbox, great but the sandbox mmo does belong to only PvP or PvE, it is what the devs want their world to be.

SWG and UO.

Thank you. I've never played UO  

  User Deleted
7/08/13 6:09:22 PM#114
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

Now it needs a similar sandbox MMO NOT aimed for kids. And if you think the demand is not high enough you will have to explain two facts... why are PvE centrics MMOs hugely more successful than the forced PvP ones, and why is Ultima Online, the oldest "mainstream" MMORPG, still running despite it's totally obsolete isometric graphics and age old technology.

.

Explaining the two facts:

1) pve centric MMO huge more successful than forced pvp ones ... irrelevant to the demand of sandbox MMO. None of those successes are sandbox MMOs (and Eve is really not that successful, compared to non-sandbox)

2) UO is still running ... so what? Runescape is still running. Even Kingdom of Drakkar is still running. Old games can run with 5000 people because it is cheap. Planning anything major devs because some old games are still running .. does not seem to be a money making strategy to me.

Thank you for your opinion, now kindly step out of the conversation as you've tipped your hand at not wanting a sandbox.

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2873

There... are... four... lights!

7/08/13 6:10:56 PM#115
Originally posted by nariusseldon

1) pve centric MMO huge more successful than forced pvp ones ... irrelevant to the demand of sandbox MMO. None of those successes are sandbox MMOs (and Eve is really not that successful, compared to non-sandbox)

EvE has 500,000 players. Maybe you're one of those who believe only WoW is successful?

And maybe sandbox MMOs are less "successful"... simply because the available ones are either very old (UO), or very special (EvE, not everybody enjoys "roleplaying" a spaceship), or made by newbie developers with over-inflated egos who made PvP gank fests (Darkfail, Mortal), and because none of the recent ones target the PvE crowd just as much as the PvP one.

Yeah, no kidding Sherlock...

Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2

Got a refund: Archeage. First refund since I started MMOs.

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  bliss14

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/01/11
Posts: 531

Ahh devil ether.

7/08/13 6:24:15 PM#116
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by jdlamson75
Every themepark out there is primarily based around PvE.  Now the PvE crowd wants dibs on the sandboxes, too.  Want, want, want.  Go raid a dragon lair or something and stay out of my sandbox.  Thank you.

That doesn't make any sense. It's just like arguing there's no need for quality seafood restaurants in a town just because there are already dozens of quality meat serving ones.

I'm sure no theme park player would mind if there were more PvP centric games if in return they also had access to quality more PvE centric sandbox games which aren't mindless gank fests.

Eww seafood.  Yuck.

  Burntvet

Elite Member

Joined: 11/16/07
Posts: 2787

7/08/13 6:30:52 PM#117
What we need are fewer half-assed, under funded, bugged to hell, indie MMOs (that charge the same full price as "real" MMOs do or did) in general. That several of these games are supposedly "sandboxes" (and yet have little sand) and are PvP centric is not as relevant as is the lack of quality. We have all had enough "bad" games.
  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10937

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

7/08/13 6:35:37 PM#118


Originally posted by jdlamson75
Every themepark out there is primarily based around PvE.  Now the PvE crowd wants dibs on the sandboxes, too.  Want, want, want.  Go raid a dragon lair or something and stay out of my sandbox.  Thank you.


Does it strike anyone as odd that a proponent of sandbox PvP (I am assuming FFA PvP where anything goes) is asking for fairness in the market where a lot of real PvP happens?

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  User Deleted
7/08/13 6:50:16 PM#119
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by jdlamson75
Every themepark out there is primarily based around PvE.  Now the PvE crowd wants dibs on the sandboxes, too.  Want, want, want.  Go raid a dragon lair or something and stay out of my sandbox.  Thank you.



Does it strike anyone as odd that a proponent of sandbox PvP (I am assuming FFA PvP where anything goes) is asking for fairness in the market where a lot of real PvP happens?

 

Isn't it ironic that the WoW generation is trying to get in good with the EVE and UO generations?

  DamonVile

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4909

7/08/13 7:14:59 PM#120
Originally posted by Dihoru
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by jdlamson75
Every themepark out there is primarily based around PvE.  Now the PvE crowd wants dibs on the sandboxes, too.  Want, want, want.  Go raid a dragon lair or something and stay out of my sandbox.  Thank you.



Does it strike anyone as odd that a proponent of sandbox PvP (I am assuming FFA PvP where anything goes) is asking for fairness in the market where a lot of real PvP happens?

 

Isn't it ironic that the WoW generation is trying to get in good with the EVE and UO generations?

Only if you learn English from a song.

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