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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » We don't need anymore PvP focused sandbox mmos right now.

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  Sinaku

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 481

7/15/13 1:06:59 AM#661

None of those "sandbox" games are AAA. We don't have a single decent AAA sandbox (EVE is good but not really my style) and if one doesn't have PvP I will probably have to pass (unless the PvE is just insanely good).

  User Deleted
7/15/13 4:02:53 AM#662
Originally posted by Sinaku

None of those "sandbox" games are AAA. We don't have a single decent AAA sandbox (EVE is good but not really my style) and if one doesn't have PvP I will probably have to pass (unless the PvE is just insanely good).

Insanely good in my book would mean AI smarter than EVE's second generation Sleeper AI but that would make people cry in a trinity game because critters controlled by the Sleeper AI will make a B-line for anything hitting them harder than the rest and will also pay extreme amounts of attention to healers... imagine something even smarter than that... would stun lock tanks with part of its group and use the rest to kill the squishy guys o.o...

 

Sinaku though is right, there are no AAA PVP sandboxes, not even EVE classes as one because it started off with a budget of under 5 million euros with marketing whereas its long time counterpart WoW had (last I heard) had around 20 times that with marketing.

  craftseeker

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/11/09
Posts: 650

7/15/13 4:13:16 AM#663
Originally posted by Dihoru
Originally posted by Sinaku

None of those "sandbox" games are AAA. We don't have a single decent AAA sandbox (EVE is good but not really my style) and if one doesn't have PvP I will probably have to pass (unless the PvE is just insanely good).

Insanely good in my book would mean AI smarter than EVE's second generation Sleeper AI but that would make people cry in a trinity game because critters controlled by the Sleeper AI will make a B-line for anything hitting them harder than the rest and will also pay extreme amounts of attention to healers... imagine something even smarter than that... would stun lock tanks with part of its group and use the rest to kill the squishy guys o.o...

Sinaku though is right, there are no AAA PVP sandboxes, not even EVE classes as one because it started off with a budget of under 5 million euros with marketing whereas its long time counterpart WoW had (last I heard) had around 20 times that with marketing.

Yes, as good a game as it is (although not a game for me) a AAA funded version would probably have flopped from having too many  features and too much glitz.  The budget CCP had constrained the development to give it just right features and gritiness to appeal to a niche that it has occupied and allowed it to continue to grow.

The mistakes made with the Incarna update forced CCP to focus more on player expectations and this combined with the small size of the publisher has kept the game tight and well supported by its community.

  User Deleted
7/15/13 4:22:35 AM#664
Originally posted by craftseeker
Originally posted by Dihoru
Originally posted by Sinaku

None of those "sandbox" games are AAA. We don't have a single decent AAA sandbox (EVE is good but not really my style) and if one doesn't have PvP I will probably have to pass (unless the PvE is just insanely good).

Insanely good in my book would mean AI smarter than EVE's second generation Sleeper AI but that would make people cry in a trinity game because critters controlled by the Sleeper AI will make a B-line for anything hitting them harder than the rest and will also pay extreme amounts of attention to healers... imagine something even smarter than that... would stun lock tanks with part of its group and use the rest to kill the squishy guys o.o...

Sinaku though is right, there are no AAA PVP sandboxes, not even EVE classes as one because it started off with a budget of under 5 million euros with marketing whereas its long time counterpart WoW had (last I heard) had around 20 times that with marketing.

Yes, as good a game as it is (although not a game for me) a AAA funded version would probably have flopped from having too many  features and too much glitz.  The budget CCP had constrained the development to give it just right features and gritiness to appeal to a niche that it has occupied and allowed it to continue to grow.

The mistakes made with the Incarna update forced CCP to focus more on player expectations and this combined with the small size of the publisher has kept the game tight and well supported by its community.

Well as an Incarna protester I can tell you it wasn't that we wanted something in particular, it's that we were seeing CCP neglecting what made EVE, EVE, IE ship to ship combat, which ignited pretty badly when that leaked internal letter showed the devs playing around with the notions of P2W games (even if in jest they still dun goofed). Also if Incarna was more feature complete (IE that damn door in the CQ actually opened onto a station) and didn't make some peoples GPUs run so hot you could make an omelette on it the backlash might've been more minor but as was back in the summer of 2011... people were pissed... really pissed... I saw incursion running ships orbiting the Jita 4-4 monument and shooting it (incursion runners make money by running incursions which in fleets takes about 4-5 minutes a pop but you need to layer em fast one on top of the other to get good profits, to see those people there in those ships, most of which were hella expensive to boot to, was a sign in and of itself how annoyed people were with the status quo). But as a fun fact with the following expansion hitting the community's G-spot and every subsequent one doing the same sub numbers not only went back up to pre-incarna levels they actually kept going up.

  Holophonist

Elite Member

Joined: 2/15/09
Posts: 2050

7/15/13 8:42:45 AM#665
Originally posted by whisperwynd
Originally posted by JeremyBowyer
Originally posted by whisperwynd
Originally posted by JeremyBowyer
Originally posted by whisperwynd

Ummm.... doesn't the poll itself agree with me? It grants the premise that 90% of the time the phrase "how interesting" is received as sarcasm. I agree that sarcasm isn't technically included in those words, but that's how people perceive it... as the poll indicates. And people perceive it as such because that's how people often mean it. And because people often mean it like that, it seemed like that's how you meant it. But since there was a chance you didn't mean it sarcastically, that's why I asked you a couple of times to explain. Again, I don't disagree that there's nothing inherently wrong with the phrase "How interesting...." that's why I explicitly said that's how it's historically perceived. I said that for a reason.

 

Again, jumping to conclusions (as a negative) would be to assume you meant something without asking for clarification. There's nothing wrong with asking you, and in the meantime (since this isn't voice chat), elaborating on the more controversial point that you'd PROBABLY take issue with.

 

It asks It's unfair how 90% of the time, the phrase "How interesting," is received as sarcasm as opposed to actually expressing your interest on the subject. WHY CAN'T WE JUST BE INTERESTED IN SOMETHING WITHOUT BEING ATTACKED,amirite? I am the one who said it, why can't I just be interested in something without being attacked AmIrite? To which the majority said 'Yes' The majority voted that I should be able to say it without the result of being 'attacked'.  To which the %90 is obviously made up, this one is more concrete.

Now you can poll your 'surroundings' as to how this question really asks what it asks, then we can debate that.

You're confused. What I asked the people in the room is not what you're asking in your poll. I'm asking if people perceive the phrase "How interesting..." to be sarcastic. You're asking if it's fair that people perceive it as such. Your poll includes as a predetermined premise the thing I'm trying to argue for lol.

 

I agree that it may be unfair, but that doesn't mean I can be faulted for thinking that's how you meant it. Most people mean it as such, so blame the people who use it incorrectly, don't blame me for taking it in a way it's most commonly used. Also, again, I didn't even assume anything or jump to any conclusions. If I had, I wouldn't have asked you if you actually disagree with me. 

To me, assuming and jumping to conclusions are kind of the same. You haven't proven anything yet, especially not the 'far' more thorough debater.  

Ok, but I didn't do either. You seem to be confused again. Do you think I said I was assuming something but not jumping to conclusions?

 

I thought you were being sarcastic when you said "How interesting....", so I asked you to clarify and then went on to explain myself on the point that you were most likely to take offense at. And how have I not shown myself to be the more thorough debater when I'm responding to almost every line in your posts directly?

 

You're REALLY stretching here, by the way.

There is no way you can say that the majority can believe that, even if the poster said %90. It's not possible. Anyone who  says 'most' 'all' or even a high % number without any factual data starts off with a false premise (yes even the poster), so the conclusion cannot be true as no one can know for a fact that most people takes that phrase as sarcasm. 

Do you understand how bad it is to just resort to the "YOU CAN'T PROVE THAT" defense? Of course I can't prove that most people take it as such, but it's pretty obvious. I think so, the people I polled thought so, the poll you linked thought so, hell even you probably think so considering you've been making the point that it's unfair that most people take it that way.

I was bringing that link as a joke, showing how silly it is for either side attempting to debate such premises. The fact you believe in it dictated your reaction to it, initially. You admitted you thought I was being sarcastic, to which I can honestly say I was not. I was bemused by the statement, the following debate being rather circular in nature that I found even more amusing. For this I apologize for taunting you the way I did.

Yes, I thought you were being sarcastic. But I wasn't sure so I ASKED you and calmly reiterated my position. Again, what exactly did I do wrong? I didn't jump to any conclusions or make any assumptions. Like I said, assuming/jumping to conclusions would mean I didn't ask you for clarification and just went with it based on the premise that you were in FACT being sarcastic, but that's not what I did.

In this very thread, where I was debating the topic with Dihoru, you interjected but not fully understanding our discussion. You eventually asked for clarification, and got it. Perspective is no small thing, especially when arguing and trying to use 'absolutes' like 'everyone', 'most' like we see too often here.

Why are you so cryptic?

Personally, I have not really seen or heard 'How interesting..' used other than in cartoons or comedies where the shrink is bored or some such to bring a laugh or two. Does that mean it doesn't happen? No. Of course not. Can I say it rarely happens and still be right? Because even in this, you have shown no proof that it is the majority that think this way, and I can assure you, you'll be hard pressed to. This is my opinion from my experience just your is to you, though I respect it.

 Again, apologies for baiting you as I did. See you in another debate.. 

So wait.... you're saying that you don't think people usually take that phrase to be sarcastic?

 

By the way, you can't make a bunch of arguments and then say goodbye. If you want to leave the debate, don't try to get the last word in.

  whisperwynd

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/22/06
Posts: 1470

Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the priviledge to do so as well.

7/15/13 11:11:20 AM#666
Originally posted by JeremyBowyer
Originally posted by whisperwynd

Do you understand how bad it is to just resort to the "YOU CAN'T PROVE THAT" defense? Of course I can't prove that most people take it as such, but it's pretty obvious. I think so, the people I polled thought so, the poll you linked thought so, hell even you probably think so considering you've been making the point that it's unfair that most people take it that way.

 lol The whole point of a debate is to present premises that make sense and can be corroborated. So much fallacy in what you said there. You didn't present anything, just you saying you polled. Irrelevant and unsubstantiated.

Yes, I thought you were being sarcastic. But I wasn't sure so I ASKED you and calmly reiterated my position. Again, what exactly did I do wrong? I didn't jump to any conclusions or make any assumptions. Like I said, assuming/jumping to conclusions would mean I didn't ask you for clarification and just went with it based on the premise that you were in FACT being sarcastic, but that's not what I did.

You didn't do anything wrong, I told you it wasn't sarcastic on my part yet here again you state I was. Let that bone go. I even apologized for goading you, can you not

In this very thread, where I was debating the topic with Dihoru, you interjected but not fully understanding our discussion. You eventually asked for clarification, and got it. Perspective is no small thing, especially when arguing and trying to use 'absolutes' like 'everyone', 'most' like we see too often here.

Why are you so cryptic?

Cryptic? Failure at understanding? Your perspective is that you thought I was being sarcastic when I wasn't, it wasa vague phrase that set you off and you still justify your defensiveness. What's cryptic is your inability to make such obvious connections.

Personally, I have not really seen or heard 'How interesting..' used other than in cartoons or comedies where the shrink is bored or some such to bring a laugh or two. Does that mean it doesn't happen? No. Of course not. Can I say it rarely happens and still be right? Because even in this, you have shown no proof that it is the majority that think this way, and I can assure you, you'll be hard pressed to. This is my opinion from my experience just your is to you, though I respect it.

 Again, apologies for baiting you as I did. See you in another debate.. 

So wait.... you're saying that you don't think people usually take that phrase to be sarcastic?

 I just said that didn't i? Other than tv or movies I have yet to hear anyone say it.

By the way, you can't make a bunch of arguments and then say goodbye. If you want to leave the debate, don't try to get the last word in.

LOL I just wanted to go to bed, you read too much into things. I ended it with an apology. I'm done here, I will not entertain your circular logic of beating around the same dead horse. I'm done. Feel free to post something after this to 'get the last word'. As if that makes an inkling of difference in the way you debate things. 

Peace

  Holophonist

Elite Member

Joined: 2/15/09
Posts: 2050

7/15/13 11:31:21 AM#667
Originally posted by whisperwynd
Originally posted by JeremyBowyer
Originally posted by whisperwynd

Do you understand how bad it is to just resort to the "YOU CAN'T PROVE THAT" defense? Of course I can't prove that most people take it as such, but it's pretty obvious. I think so, the people I polled thought so, the poll you linked thought so, hell even you probably think so considering you've been making the point that it's unfair that most people take it that way.

 lol The whole point of a debate is to present premises that make sense and can be corroborated. So much fallacy in what you said there. You didn't present anything, just you saying you polled. Irrelevant and unsubstantiated.

So serious question time, is english your first language? I'm honestly not sure because you seem to have a really hard time making any sense whatsoever. The poll you linked agrees with me. The people I asked agreed with me. Even YOU seemed to agree with me when you argue that it's unfair that people take the phrase "How interesting..." to be sarcastic. How again are you denying that people generally view that phrase as being sarcastic?

 

Yes, I thought you were being sarcastic. But I wasn't sure so I ASKED you and calmly reiterated my position. Again, what exactly did I do wrong? I didn't jump to any conclusions or make any assumptions. Like I said, assuming/jumping to conclusions would mean I didn't ask you for clarification and just went with it based on the premise that you were in FACT being sarcastic, but that's not what I did.

You didn't do anything wrong, I told you it wasn't sarcastic on my part yet here again you state I was. Let that bone go. I even apologized for goading you, can you not

Where did I say you were being sarcastic? PLEASE show me. I said I thought you were being sarcastic (BECAUSE THAT'S HOW PEOPLE TYPICALLY VIEW THE PHRASE "HOW INTERESTING...."!!), but I even played it safe and didn't jump to any conclusions. I asked you to explain yourself and in the meantime I explained MYself. That's somehow unreasonable to you?

 

In this very thread, where I was debating the topic with Dihoru, you interjected but not fully understanding our discussion. You eventually asked for clarification, and got it. Perspective is no small thing, especially when arguing and trying to use 'absolutes' like 'everyone', 'most' like we see too often here.

Why are you so cryptic?

Cryptic? Failure at understanding? Your perspective is that you thought I was being sarcastic when I wasn't, it wasa vague phrase that set you off and you still justify your defensiveness. What's cryptic is your inability to make such obvious connections.

Cryptic as in you say weird things with hidden meanings. You've yet to make any real point, yet you're saying a lot of stuff.

 

Yes, my perspective is that I thought you were being sarcastic. You used a phrase that is commonly used in a sarcastic way. And by the way, it didn't "set me off." I was in complete control the entire time which is why I had 3 instances of confirmation in my response. I asked why it was interesting, if you actually disagreed with me and then at the end of my post I said you can disagree if you want but I'd want example. I never assumed or jumped to conclusions and started arguing. I was purposely and deliberately apprehensive precisely BECAUSE I didn't want to jump to any conclusions. Jumping to conclusions would be me responding as if you explicitly said you disagreed with me, but instead If responded cautiously.

 

Personally, I have not really seen or heard 'How interesting..' used other than in cartoons or comedies where the shrink is bored or some such to bring a laugh or two. Does that mean it doesn't happen? No. Of course not. Can I say it rarely happens and still be right? Because even in this, you have shown no proof that it is the majority that think this way, and I can assure you, you'll be hard pressed to. This is my opinion from my experience just your is to you, though I respect it.

 Again, apologies for baiting you as I did. See you in another debate.. 

So wait.... you're saying that you don't think people usually take that phrase to be sarcastic?

 I just said that didn't i? Other than tv or movies I have yet to hear anyone say it.

Now you're giving me shit for asking you clear something up before I respond to it? You're impossible to please and you've so obviously been trying to pick a fight with me from the very beginning, you've even admitted it. 

 

So tell me, before you give me shit about preemptively responding to the thing I thought you might mean, now you sarcastically answer me when I ask you a question and let you respond before I give my response? Make up your mind. So pointless arguing with you. You contradict yourself, you make no real arguments or even points, you fail to grasp basic definitions of terms (assuming, jumping to conclusion, etc).

 

Seriously, what's your overall point here? That I misunderstood you when you said "How interesting..."?? You yourself have admitted that this was just some stupid 'experiment' to get me to react to it. Not only that, I responded more reasonably than most people would. I answered in a cautious manner and gave you a chance to explain yourself. This whole debate is just really fucking weird.

 

By the way, you can't make a bunch of arguments and then say goodbye. If you want to leave the debate, don't try to get the last word in.

LOL I just wanted to go to bed, you read too much into things. I ended it with an apology. I'm done here, I will not entertain your circular logic of beating around the same dead horse. I'm done. Feel free to post something after this to 'get the last word'. As if that makes an inkling of difference in the way you debate things. 

Peace

Don't blame it on wanting to go to bed. You can say "I'm going to bed so I'll respond to whatever you say tomorrow." But instead you said "see you in another debate." By the way, that's not the first time you tried to end the debate either. If you want to get out of a debate, fine. But don't try to get the last word before doing so. That's cowardly.

 

Also, please don't poke fun at how I debate. You've made your incompetence here very clear, starting with some weird bait to try to get me to misunderstand you and then chastising me for misunderstanding you? Or something? And then trying to leave a debate at the end of a post responding (poorly) to a bunch of my points? Seriously?!

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2898

There... are... four... lights!

7/17/13 10:54:18 AM#668
Originally posted by JeremyBowyer

The people I asked agreed with me.

Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2

Got a refund: Archeage. First refund since I started MMOs.

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  Holophonist

Elite Member

Joined: 2/15/09
Posts: 2050

7/17/13 11:01:10 AM#669
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by JeremyBowyer

The people I asked agreed with me.

 

Are you good for anything other than out of context potshots?
  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16838

7/17/13 11:11:00 AM#670
Originally posted by Dihoru

Insanely good in my book would mean AI smarter than EVE's second generation Sleeper AI but that would make people cry in a trinity game because critters controlled by the Sleeper AI will make a B-line for anything hitting them harder than the rest and will also pay extreme amounts of attention to healers... imagine something even smarter than that... would stun lock tanks with part of its group and use the rest to kill the squishy guys o.o...

Sinaku though is right, there are no AAA PVP sandboxes, not even EVE classes as one because it started off with a budget of under 5 million euros with marketing whereas its long time counterpart WoW had (last I heard) had around 20 times that with marketing.

Wow had $60M in budget + marketing but they originally spent a small sum on it, it wasn't until almost a year after launch that they started to spend money on that.

But you are right, it ain't AAA. The only western sandbox I can think of with an AAA budget of it's time was Ultima online, and possibly SWG ($12M in 2003, not much compared to Wow but it might still be AAA). Then again, both CCPs WoDO and Undead labs Class 4 are AAA and they will eventually come out.

Sandbox games have been seriously underfunded for a long time.

  lizardbones

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10953

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

7/17/13 11:48:26 AM#671


Originally posted by JeremyBowyer

Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard


Originally posted by JeremyBowyer The people I asked agreed with me.




 

Are you good for anything other than out of context potshots?




Stop leaving yourself so open to them.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  User Deleted
7/17/13 11:56:49 AM#672
Originally posted by Loke666
Originally posted by Dihoru

Insanely good in my book would mean AI smarter than EVE's second generation Sleeper AI but that would make people cry in a trinity game because critters controlled by the Sleeper AI will make a B-line for anything hitting them harder than the rest and will also pay extreme amounts of attention to healers... imagine something even smarter than that... would stun lock tanks with part of its group and use the rest to kill the squishy guys o.o...

Sinaku though is right, there are no AAA PVP sandboxes, not even EVE classes as one because it started off with a budget of under 5 million euros with marketing whereas its long time counterpart WoW had (last I heard) had around 20 times that with marketing.

Wow had $60M in budget + marketing but they originally spent a small sum on it, it wasn't until almost a year after launch that they started to spend money on that.

But you are right, it ain't AAA. The only western sandbox I can think of with an AAA budget of it's time was Ultima online, and possibly SWG ($12M in 2003, not much compared to Wow but it might still be AAA). Then again, both CCPs WoDO and Undead labs Class 4 are AAA and they will eventually come out.

Sandbox games have been seriously underfunded for a long time.

Neither WoDO or Class 4 are AAA, they're higher up the ladder than their predecessors ( EVE respective State of Decay) but they use similar engines and aren't being built on massive budgets (Class 4 will by what I know be a retooled State of Decay with the backend reworked to allow MMO persistent world, a larger game world, more options, NPCs will either get slashed or reduced in number and the world will just be enhanced over all in options, tools, etc). The only games I can think of which are AAA and might be sandboxes are EQN and possibly Project Titan (the recent reset suggests they shifted from a themepark to something completely different).

  Holophonist

Elite Member

Joined: 2/15/09
Posts: 2050

7/23/13 6:01:07 PM#673
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by JeremyBowyer

Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

 

 


Originally posted by JeremyBowyer The people I asked agreed with me.




 

 

Are you good for anything other than out of context potshots?




Stop leaving yourself so open to them.

 

Do you know what out of context means? It's not my problem if somebody twists words to make up something that isn't there.

  User Deleted
7/23/13 6:38:44 PM#674


Originally posted by Horusra
The ABSOLUTE LAST thing the mmo market needs is another mmo focused on ganking for you and your friends (or whatever asshat seventeen year old that wants to feel leet)  camping over and over until you either die of boredom, die of frustration over morons, or get the carrot you've been chasing. Then it's on to the next carrot! Why? To justify losing your soul chasing the last one. 

NO THANK YOU 


Can't we actually say the same thing about the PvE market more so. That statement makes a lot more sense if it said "The ABSOLUTE LAST thing the MMO market needs is another dungeon crawl, monster camp, everyone kumbaya lets group and be merry fest while everyone wins."


I read earlier in this thread that the PvE market is much bigger than the PvP market and I would agree and use it as a reason why the PvE market is already more than catered to and the PvP market has been pretty much left alone, or not given enough resources/time for development.


It might of started out PvP but quickly the resources diverted towards PvE and it has been there for years with PvP being marginalized down to FPS style objective-type maps. I don't think enough has been done for PvP sandbox MMO's and I would gladly see them keep trying to churn them out until a fully polished and fully fleshed out game is released ideally through a top developer. Independent developers just don't have the resources to be able to fully develop an MMO on their own and the PvP market is too niche for any companies with resources to even care for it.

  Bidwood

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/13
Posts: 555

7/23/13 10:42:15 PM#675
Originally posted by Jairoe03

 


Originally posted by Horusra
The ABSOLUTE LAST thing the mmo market needs is another mmo focused on ganking for you and your friends (or whatever asshat seventeen year old that wants to feel leet)  camping over and over until you either die of boredom, die of frustration over morons, or get the carrot you've been chasing. Then it's on to the next carrot! Why? To justify losing your soul chasing the last one. 

 

NO THANK YOU 


 

Can't we actually say the same thing about the PvE market more so. That statement makes a lot more sense if it said "The ABSOLUTE LAST thing the MMO market needs is another dungeon crawl, monster camp, everyone kumbaya lets group and be merry fest while everyone wins."


I read earlier in this thread that the PvE market is much bigger than the PvP market and I would agree and use it as a reason why the PvE market is already more than catered to and the PvP market has been pretty much left alone, or not given enough resources/time for development.


It might of started out PvP but quickly the resources diverted towards PvE and it has been there for years with PvP being marginalized down to FPS style objective-type maps. I don't think enough has been done for PvP sandbox MMO's and I would gladly see them keep trying to churn them out until a fully polished and fully fleshed out game is released ideally through a top developer. Independent developers just don't have the resources to be able to fully develop an MMO on their own and the PvP market is too niche for any companies with resources to even care for it.

I really believe open-world PVP will be an integral part of Everquest Next. Check out these tweets:

 

Poetic Stanziel ‏@PoeticStanziel 17h @salty21db @KareesMoonshade @j_smedley A sandbox game needs conflict to drive the economy, which means open-world PvP and risk/reward.

John Smedley ‏@j_smedley 16h @PoeticStanziel @salty21db @KareesMoonshade I agree wholeheartedly

  NagelRitter

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/18/13
Posts: 613

7/23/13 11:26:24 PM#676
Originally posted by Bidwood

I really believe open-world PVP will be an integral part of Everquest Next. Check out these tweets:

 

Poetic Stanziel ‏@PoeticStanziel 17h @salty21db @KareesMoonshade @j_smedley A sandbox game needs conflict to drive the economy, which means open-world PvP and risk/reward.

John Smedley ‏@j_smedley 16h @PoeticStanziel @salty21db @KareesMoonshade I agree wholeheartedly

Hmm, good catch. Coupled with Smedley's appreciation for EVE...

Favorite MMO: Vanilla WoW
Currently playing: GW2, EVE
Excited for: Wildstar, maybe?

  Greymantle4

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/27/07
Posts: 776

7/24/13 1:22:28 AM#677
Just give us a updated SWG in a EQ wrapper. Win Win for everyone. :)
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